Isnt the whole deal about being transgender that you have the physical body of one sex, but the mind of another sex?The basic reasoning comes down to 'cause you're really a man'. It's pretty standard fare transmisogyny.
Isnt the whole deal about being transgender that you have the physical body of one sex, but the mind of another sex?The basic reasoning comes down to 'cause you're really a man'. It's pretty standard fare transmisogyny.
If she's been on hormones for a while, then she's not as strong as a man and would get destroyed in the men's league.I'm always amazed how people think biological men and women can compete on the same level in any sort of sport that requires physical strength. This isn't some misogynistic conspiracy. Men and women are different for evolutionary purposes. She'd be better off going out for the men's league.
If she's been on hormones for a while, then she's not as strong as a man and would get destroyed in the men's league.
The effects of HRT on strength is massive.
I'm curious what would the legal ramifications be if one of the other women were injured by her.
Would they be able to sue the league and would they have a case? Thats is another angle I'd be worried about if I had to make these decisions. I have no idea what the laws are in Australia so I'm not sure if this would even come into play.
I think she should be allowed to compete. People are born with genetic advantage for athletics all the time. No matter how much certain people train, they will never have the genetics to be as good as some of the top athletes.
The basic reasoning comes down to 'cause you're really a man'. It's pretty standard fare transmisogyny.
I think she should be allowed to compete. People are born with genetic advantage for athletics all the time. No matter how much certain people train, they will never have the genetics to be as good as some of the top athletes.
Because no one in their right mind that played sports in their life would think this is ok, since they'd know the monumental difference between a man and a woman. This isn't some advantage, she was born a man. With all the overwhelming physical advantages that men generally have over women and would curb-stomp these women because she was born a man rather than you know.. those other specific advantages that people get born with.
You can be what you want to be, I don't give a fuck. But she is still physically speaking a man regardless of what they want to be. If there wasn't some monumental difference physically between men and women, sports would include both genders to play with each other. However, no one wants to watch men completely destroy women, which is what would happen here regardless of whether someone feels they are a woman or a man.
Do people forget that a complete fucking scrub that smoked, drank and then dominated the fuck out of the Williams sisters in tennis in late 90s? He was ranked 203rd and fucking bodied them 6-1 and 6-2. Now imagine if Karsten Braasch the scrub that went even further down the list falling to 300s shortly after, was a transgender woman. We would have seen a physically born man playing and dominating the fuck out of the best tennis players of this century until she retired bored from owning everyone. All these moral social heroes on this topic would be for it and not watch the actual sport, and the tennis fans would rightfully tap out completely killing the female tennis sport for the next decade. There would be no Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Justine Henin, Seles etc because they'd all be women that got fucking dominated by the Braasch. All would be footnotes in tennis history. From the specific advantage of being born a man and playing against the sex that is far weaker in comparison. This is what some of you are trying to make it seem similar to all the genetic advantages, and it's somehow not a parody.
I'm not attacking anybody. I'm just calling it out how it is. People that played sports wouldn't write this nonsense about equality since they know it's the complete opposite of it in reality. It just looks like a bunch of people that are ignorant on the subject that are tripping over themselves trying to sound like fair and balanced citizens looking for imaginary social points.
this will always be a trick question, as long as there's two category, there always gonna be a problem somewhere, and that has nothing to do with bigotry or misoginy
the only real solution that would be "fair" would be to make every sports mixed, male, female, trans and so on all in the same teams... or mabye add the mixed sport to the rest as a third category
of course it will never happen, i know why, but still, it would be nice to watch mixed sports
Because no one in their right mind that played sports in their life would think this is ok, since they'd know the monumental difference between a man and a woman. This isn't some advantage, she was born a man. With all the overwhelming physical advantages that men generally have over women and would curb-stomp these women because she was born a man rather than you know.. those other specific advantages that people get born with.
You can be what you want to be, I don't give a fuck. But she is still physically speaking a man regardless of what they want to be. If there wasn't some monumental difference physically between men and women, sports would include both genders to play with each other. However, no one wants to watch men completely destroy women, which is what would happen here regardless of whether someone feels they are a woman or a man.
Do people forget that a complete fucking scrub that smoked, drank and then dominated the fuck out of the Williams sisters in tennis in late 90s? He was ranked 203rd and fucking bodied them 6-1 and 6-2. Now imagine if Karsten Braasch the scrub that went even further down the list falling to 300s shortly after, was a transgender woman. We would have seen a physically born man playing and dominating the fuck out of the best tennis players of this century until she retired bored from owning everyone. All these moral social heroes on this topic would be for it and not watch the actual sport, and the tennis fans would rightfully tap out completely killing the female tennis sport for the next decade. There would be no Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Justine Henin, Seles etc because they'd all be women that got fucking dominated by the Braasch. All would be footnotes in tennis history. From the specific advantage of being born a man and playing against the sex that is far weaker in comparison. This is what some of you are trying to make it seem similar to all the genetic advantages, and it's somehow not a parody.
I'm not attacking anybody. I'm just calling it out how it is. People that played sports wouldn't write this nonsense about equality since they know it's the complete opposite of it in reality. It just looks like a bunch of people that are ignorant on the subject that are tripping over themselves trying to sound like fair and balanced citizens looking for imaginary social points.
Then why is she allowed to play against less elite players? Come off it, it's clearly not an issue of safety.Its Australian Rules Football though. She could kill the other women.
I think she should be allowed to compete. People are born with genetic advantage for athletics all the time. No matter how much certain people train, they will never have the genetics to be as good as some of the top athletes.
Then why is she allowed to play against less elite players? Come off it, it's clearly not an issue of safety.
She doesn't have a male testosterone balance, so are we going to institute a weight limit on the AFLW?
Well said.Because no one in their right mind that played sports in their life would think this is ok, since they'd know the monumental difference between a man and a woman. This isn't some advantage, she was born a man. With all the overwhelming physical advantages that men generally have over women and would curb-stomp these women because she was born a man rather than you know.. those other specific advantages that people get born with.
You can be what you want to be, I don't give a fuck. But she is still physically speaking a man regardless of what they want to be. If there wasn't some monumental difference physically between men and women, sports would include both genders to play with each other. However, no one wants to watch men completely destroy women, which is what would happen here regardless of whether someone feels they are a woman or a man.
Do people forget that a complete fucking scrub that smoked, drank and then dominated the fuck out of the Williams sisters in tennis in late 90s? He was ranked 203rd and fucking bodied them 6-1 and 6-2. Now imagine if Karsten Braasch the scrub that went even further down the list falling to 300s shortly after, was a transgender woman. We would have seen a physically born man playing and dominating the fuck out of the best tennis players of this century until she retired bored from owning everyone. All these moral social heroes on this topic would be for it and not watch the actual sport, and the tennis fans would rightfully tap out completely killing the female tennis sport for the next decade. There would be no Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Justine Henin, Seles etc because they'd all be women that got fucking dominated by the Braasch. All would be footnotes in tennis history. From the specific advantage of being born a man and playing against the sex that is far weaker in comparison. This is what some of you are trying to make it seem similar to all the genetic advantages, and it's somehow not a parody.
I'm not attacking anybody. I'm just calling it out how it is. People that played sports wouldn't write this nonsense about equality since they know it's the complete opposite of it in reality. It just looks like a bunch of people that are ignorant on the subject that are tripping over themselves trying to sound like fair and balanced citizens looking for imaginary social points.
How do they let the guy on the far right play! He's at a disadvantage because of his gender compared to the guy on the far left's gender.I can see both sides here but interesting to me that the AFL was actively promoting the game this way last year.
The guy on the left outweighs the guy on the right by 66kg or 145lbs.
So no one with Low T or High T medical conditions from birth!Afaik the difference is most hormonal, why they dont use this as the parameter? I think they should develop international scientific parameters (If its more than hormonal), its what it should be used.
Not only a lazy Premisse, imo.
Then why is she being allowed to play in the lower leagues? That's only gong to be more dangerous, if you think she's unsafe.I think it is. As for the bolded, in all honesty its not a bad idea, would be clear as to who can and cannot compete regardless of gender.
Should probably be XX league and XY league instead of mens and womens league.
The chromosomal advantage is really what they mean anyway not the identity. Probably the only reason they aren't is because this wasn't really a known issue back when "men" and "women" were divided into sports leagues.
Look to people from New Zealand/Tonga/Samoa.
The NZ rugby team for example have Aotearoa Mata'u who is listed as over 6ft and 133kg. Here is her next to a player from Hong Kong.
I would have no trouble with putting Hannah Mouncey up against her in Rugby... although I would think Hannah might not be so keen!
This is where the AFL's "the stage of maturity of the AFLW competition, its current player cohort" stance is understandable, but only if they have a plan to actually integrate girls like Hannah, or indeed girls like Aotearoa into the game at some point. As more money flows into the sport it is only natural that the bigger and stronger girls will take up AFL as well. This might be as simple as training the girls in tackling technique, but will likely involve additional and different training.
The claim that it is "borderline physically impossible" is absurd.
I don't know why these things are even a discussion. The integrity of the sport and the competition comes first. I'd never allow any transgender man > woman in female sports. Especially in contact sports. It's too dangerous and unfair.
There is a significant difference between marginal genetic advantages and a person who has over 30kg of mass over all the competition.
Its a little more complicated than that. If trans women are actively taking hormones they are damaging their ability to grow faster, stronger, bigger as the men they are competing with.
Trans men on hormones would effictivley be taking a PED while competing against women.
Honestly, I dont know if there is a good answer here for trans athletes on hormones. Either way they are in limbo.
Aren't there tests that can be done to measure this woman's current abilities vs women currently playing? There's a trans MMA fighter, isn't there?
The basic reasoning comes down to 'cause you're really a man'. It's pretty standard fare transmisogyny.
Then why is she being allowed to play in the lower leagues? That's only gong to be more dangerous, if you think she's unsafe.
The only way a female athlete will achieve those stats is with steroids.
Bingo.
If there was a cis-gendered athlete who was the same height and weight, would she be barred from the draft?
Genetics doesn't give just a marginal advantage lol.
Absolutely false. My roommate used to be an athlete in high school, and she was slightly taller and stronger than this woman.
They should make it chromosome based to get rid of this discussion. If you have at least a Y you compete in the XY bracket, if you only have X you compete in the XX bracket.
obviously if you take hormones that would give you an advantage it should be considered doping.
Bingo.
If there was a cis-gendered athlete who was the same height and weight, would she be barred from the draft?
Note the section of the article with testimony from an actual expert contradicting Brents' salty accusations.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallon_Fox
During Fox's fight against Tamikka Brents, Brents suffered a concussion, an orbital bone fracture, and seven staples to the head in the 1st round. After her loss, Brents took to social media to convey her thoughts on the experience of fighting Fox: I've fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I cant answer whether its because she was born a man or not because Im not a doctor. I can only say, Ive never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right, she stated. Her grip was different, I could usually move around in the clinch against other females but couldnt move at all in Foxs clinch
Lots of people have genetic advantages. Why is it that we get to pick and choose which ones we'll allow?
Prior to IAFF regulations, Semenya dominated the 800m race at the world championships in Berlin, but she failed to move beyond the semifinals in Beijing after testosterone limits were implemented. When the testosterone rule was suspended in 2015, she returned to form, winning the 400m, 800m, and 1500m races at the African Championships all on the same day and an olympic gold the following year.
The Court of Arbitration for Sport suspended the IAAFs testosterone rule in 2014, citing a lack scientific evidence to suggest that women with high levels of the hormone have a significant competitive advantage. The IAAF argued that testosterone is the most important boost to athletic performance, but the court stated that unless it could prove an average performance gap of 10 to 12 percent between male and female runners, there was not sufficient evidence about the degree of the advantage.
This decision came after an Indian sprinter named Dutee Chand said the federation unfairly discriminated against women like her with higher testosterone levels. The IAAF rebuked the courts decision, pointing to two large studies in Russia and South Korea showing that most elite female athletes had testosterone levels between 0.1 and 3.08 nmol/L and that 99 percent of female athletes had testosterone below 3.08 nmol/L. They argued the 10 nmol/L cap for women was too generous.
Joanna Harper, a doctor and transgender woman who competed in male distance running events for decades, told the Court of Arbitration that when she started taking a testosterone blocker and estrogen as part of her transition, she became noticeably slower. Harper collated data from seven other transgender runners for a study published in the Journal of Sporting Cultures and Identities and found that all of them had slower times competing as females.
Note the section of the article with testimony from an actual expert contradicting Brent's salty accusations.
Wait, she's only been on hormones for a year?
Ugh this is just such a stupid argument to make. This person has had their body grow with male testosterone levels. Bones will be thicker etc.
It's not fair for women who compete. It's that fucking simple. And honestly I'm not sure how any true trans competitor who USED TO COMPETE AS A MAN cannot feel guilty for running over the female competition. Honestly if they go down this route. Please just make all sports mixed gender and we can be done with it. I hope that's fair enough for everyone when the best female athletes in the world can't become professionals.
Lower leagues are probably more concerned with filling rosters would be my guess.
Yeah, I'd say give her a couple of years to adjust. HRT works fast but I think it's tricky to get the right dosages in the first few years.She's been taking them since 2015.
Yeah, I'd say give her a couple of years to adjust. HRT works fast but I think it's tricky to get the right dosages in the first few years.