Support NeoGAF

[blitzcloud]

Can you post how you would go about getting realistic hair that cost less than current implementations? I am personally always looking for ways to lessen the physics load and if you have a way you should share it, unless you plan on selling your solution as middleware.

Obviously it needs work from the developer. Computing so much hair as fibers is going to be computing expensive. Then again, if you animate them in bulk, kinda like what Alice seems to be doing, while looking good enough.

Going for individual hair (or small blocks) rendering is going to:

1. Require too much computation
2. Look weird under certain circumstances.
3. awesome shader reflection that makes life-like hair.


So yeah, i'm opposing trying to recreate hair physics since it's too troublesome at the moment, and instead want to go for a middle solution.

How did rockstar manage to make you feel the wind on GTA: Vice City while riding a bike? Deforming the mesh. Looked good enough.

 

[nib95]

Considering the amount of times I've seen "coding to the metal" trying to be used as a legitimate selling point for the console by fans, I don't want to know.

But that is a legitimate selling point. Even more so later on in a console's life, especially with first party devs.

 

[Zaptruder]

Alice's graphics were built with the hair physics in mind. I doubt there is much difference in the process. They both make use of skeletal, procedural animation with the hair animation being completely generated on the fly which is always gonna be expensive and requires a lot of iteration in regards to calculation. Most procedural animation is done on precomputed data, aka created animations like foot planting for a running animation for example, which isn't as expensive as fully procedural hair animation and the hair probably has a lot of bones in it to. I would think hair would require more iterations of the physics calcualtions to make the hair look like its flowing.

Alice's hair doesn't look as though it involves so many strands.

So practical usage of this tech for the next couple years (and on the PS4) will likely have to limit the volume of interactions through the design of the hair. Which may well mean that's how rate limited hair physics will be during the length of this generation; unless creating physics enabled hair becomes much easier during the development of the generation; which it might well do.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

The hair's casting shadows as well.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

I think the hair feature is so neat. Kinda makes me jealous that I have to play on consoles now. One thing that has always bothered me with games is when hair is not right. Most games shy away from lose, flowing hair because of how it will look. The Dead or Alive franchise is one of the few games that got it right in my opinion. This, now, takes the top spot. Cannot wait to see this implemented on home consoles.

It will definitely be used in next gen consoles.

 

[Amir0x]

i mean it's definitely an improvement from regular hair, but to me it doesn't even look markedly better than what was in ALICE: MADNESS RETURNS already

so you tempted me to buy this trash with your tressFX, AMD, but maybe next time!

 

[SniperHunter]

i mean it's definitely an improvement from regular hair, but to me it doesn't even look markedly better than what was in ALICE: MADNESS RETURNS already

so you tempted me to buy this trash with your tressFX, AMD, but maybe next time!

agreed, too bad that stuff is exclusive to nvidia GPu's

 

[Refreshment.01]

agreed, too bad that stuff is exclusive to nvidia GPu's

In Alice? I think not.

 

[SniperHunter]

In Alice? I think not.

last time I checked, all the physx effects ran terribly on ATI cards, so I consider it exclusive.

 

[JaseC]

last time I checked, all the physx effects ran terribly on ATI cards, so I consider it exclusive.

The effect in Alice does not use PhysX.

 

[Refreshment.01]

last time I checked, all the physx effects ran terribly on ATI cards, so I consider it exclusive.

Metro ran well with CPU Physx. For ALice, i might not be 100% spot on, but to get the cool hair animation you didn't need to crank up Physx to the max. A well equiped AMD computer should be able to run the hair simulation. Even the Xbox version had a nice level of detail in the hair animation.

 

[Amaron]

Just trying to grasp the idea of this: So Tressffx is basically just the AMD version of PhysX and both of them can run hair perfectly fine if handled properly? Or is the new hair animation specific to Tressffx only?

 

[SapientWolf]

last time I checked, all the physx effects ran terribly on ATI cards, so I consider it exclusive.

PhysX doesn't run on ATI cards. In most cases, it gets ran on the CPU on a single thread.

 

[Meccanical]

Her hair WITH tressFX is inconsistent with the rest of the game...

At least it seems that way to me.

 

[iavi]

Her hair WITH tressFX is inconsistent with the rest of the game...


At least it seems that way to me.

Borrowed from the highres shot thread. That's the best hair I've seen in a playable game yet.

But it is inconsistent with the rest of the game. It's a solid implementation for the tech as a debut, but the next wave of games, or game to use it will need to have some polish around the edges.

 

[eXistor]

My framerate drops too much with it on, but honestly even if the game ran better with TressFX I would turn that shit off. I hate the way it flails all over the place, it's just silly.

 

[Alex]

But that is a legitimate selling point. Even more so later on in a console's life, especially with first party devs.

Coding to the metal is often quite exaggerated in effect and it's something we're likely going to be somewhat moving away from next cycle on the whole, so it is a bit silly to rant and rave over it the way certain people do.

 

[anddo0]

My framerate drops too much with it on, but honestly even if the game ran better with TressFX I would turn that shit off. I hate the way it flails all over the place, it's just silly.

Yeah it's a framerate killer. I gain 10-15fps with it off.

 

[Alex]

I can crank everything to psycho mode on my shitty GPU and maintain 30 FPS if I lock it, but I keep turning it on and off and I just plain can't enjoy how it looks. It looks really frayed and exaggerated and as someone else also said, very much at odds with the rest of the game. Basically, it looks like raw tech without smart art design behind it, and in a game that's as artistically brilliant as this one, it kinda sucks.

I do hope we keep seeing new tweaks and methods for hair and other important-yet-oft ignored bits. But for now I think this trick is a lil' too much.

 

[nib95]

Coding to the metal is often quite exaggerated in effect and it's something we're likely going to be somewhat moving away from next cycle on the whole, so it is a bit silly to rant and rave over it the way certain people do.

How is it exaggerated and what evidence do you have to suggest it's something devs are likely to move away from? Personally I think that's a load of rubbish. If the option is there, and certain studios have the time and money, there's little reason to believe they wouldn't take advantage of it.

 

[pestul]

Catalyst 13.3 Beta 2 fixes the Tressfx corruption/oddities with Lara's hair on AMD cards. Also reported the performance is better.

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalyst13-3WINBetaDriver.aspx

 

[Zaptruder]

I've only experienced post patch Tressfx.

And I have to say, it's kinda spoiled me for long flowing hair now. Looking at things like the latest RE Revelations trailer where there's a blonde chick with long hair... that looks like it's completely immobile, makes me realize how big a difference this feature makes for Lara.

I mean, it's initially jarring, but after spending a bit of time with it on, there's no going back. It could be better; as in, it would do well to take on environmental properties (i.e. if she's just been in water, it should be wet, if she's just been in mud, mud should cake it). But setting aside those relatively minor (and likely technically complex) incongruities, its just so good.

Shame about it's tech demo-yness... that part tends to shine through when other characters with medium/long hair are in the scene, as well as in the pre-rendered cutscenes (using in game assets); where the graphics on all fronts are worse than the actual game graphics.

 

[antitrop]

I've only experienced post patch Tressfx.

And I have to say, it's kinda spoiled me for long flowing hair now. Looking at things like the latest RE Revelations trailer where there's a blonde chick with long hair... that looks like it's completely immobile, makes me realize how big a difference this feature makes for Lara.

I mean, it's initially jarring, but after spending a bit of time with it on, there's no going back. It could be better; as in, it would do well to take on environmental properties (i.e. if she's just been in water, it should be wet, if she's just been in mud, mud should cake it). But setting aside those relatively minor (and likely technically complex) incongruities, its just so good.

I beat Tomb Raider a few days after it came out before the first patch and I still feel the same way.
I've seen the new pics since launch, though, and it looks way better now.

I'm playing Bioshock Infinite right now and I want TressFX on Elizabeth so badly.

 

[chickdigger802]

forgot to post here cuz i played this game when i was banned. The tech is quite impressive. Only gimmick effect that i'd sacrifice framerate for.

Anyone else notice that occasionally the framerate goes to completely shit when one aims? I think it depends on stage cuz I notice like 2-3 locations in the game where the framerate is mid to low 20s on my rig when it's usually 60's to 80's on more linear/smaller areas.

 

[UrbanRats]

I've only experienced post patch Tressfx.

And I have to say, it's kinda spoiled me for long flowing hair now. Looking at things like the latest RE Revelations trailer where there's a blonde chick with long hair... that looks like it's completely immobile, makes me realize how big a difference this feature makes for Lara.

I mean, it's initially jarring, but after spending a bit of time with it on, there's no going back. It could be better; as in, it would do well to take on environmental properties (i.e. if she's just been in water, it should be wet, if she's just been in mud, mud should cake it). But setting aside those relatively minor (and likely technically complex) incongruities, its just so good.

Shame about it's tech demo-yness... that part tends to shine through when other characters with medium/long hair are in the scene, as well as in the pre-rendered cutscenes (using in game assets); where the graphics on all fronts are worse than the actual game graphics.

Have you played Mafia 2 on PC with PhysX on? After having seen coats and skirts like those, it was hard to go back to capes and coats glued to the body.