Just look how fucking dirty this is.
Look at the sudden and specific need to put a ton of these statues in front of schools, then realize that Brown v. Board of Education was decided in 1954.
FUCK this makes me heated. Shit!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Baltimore removes Confederate Monuments overnight
- Thread starter antonz
- Start date
- Status
Just look how fucking dirty this is.
Look at the sudden and specific need to put a ton of these statues in front of schools, then realize that Brown v. Board of Education was decided in 1954.
FUCK this makes me heated. Shit!
Had no idea there were so many Confederate monuments across the US. All I knew about were selected southern ctities with Confederate flags on occasion.
What do you all think about Confederate cemeteries that honour the dead? Personally I'd be ok with that, but I guess it's a bit tricky.
What do you all think about Confederate cemeteries that honour the dead? Personally I'd be ok with that, but I guess it's a bit tricky.
BUT MUH HISTORY. HOW WILL I KNOW?
13 statues in Oklahoma.
We weren't even a fucking state.
Most of the protestors are coming in from out-of-town for a lot of these places. I highly doubt Baltimore, a liberal city in a liberal state with a 63% black population was going to have a spontaneous fight about it. They took them down quickly because they had the opportunity and it prevents the sites from being possible future Charlottesvilles.*
*Even then, it was never going to happen in Baltimore. Picking Richmond and Charlottesville and Florida is most definitely a defensive plan by the white supremacists. They're trying to have the fight on what they think is friendlier ground.
From a historical standpoint, considering Baltimore was certainly the most hostile city towards the Union during the War, it's an interesting change.
Fake it until you make it.
cartographer
Member
I've lost track, but the only one I know for sure is a statue is in Durant. But there are schools named after Stand Watie and Lee (and I'm sure others). Watie in particular annoys me because it's one of the worst possible choices to honor a tribal leader and I just can see them using the "but he was a Cherokee" defense against changing it.
AFAIK they aren't protected, despite a state rep. from Durant trying to hijack a senate bill to protect monuments from conflicts when Oklahoma was a state.
Edit: There's a cemetery in OKC, too, now that I'm thinking about it.
A lot can get done if the underlying message is "Fuck Black people"
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Why the fuck are there 6 confederate things in California lol?
Sunster
Member
a) pyramids are ancient history and have 0 negative effects being up while numerous positives. nazi shit is still in living memory and inspires violence.
b) Germany took down everything glorifying nazis I'm pretty sure. Buildings and things created by nazis but in no other way relate to them are fine where they are. They don't inspire or glorify hate.
I think a monument was removed yesterday. And two schools were renamed from Robert E Lee elementary last year. So it's changing.
Apparently there's a town called 'Confederate Corners' that was settled by southerners. Wonder when that'll be renamed.
/Wikipedia
All you goofballs making the preserving history argument need to take a trip over to Gettysburg and Antietam. That's where any statues deserve to live, in proper context with the thousands of lives lost on the battlefield. Not glorified in the middle of a city.
I'm glad to see them gone. They weren't inspiring any Baltimoreans to support white supremacy, so those long dead jerks wasted their money.
I'm glad to see them gone. They weren't inspiring any Baltimoreans to support white supremacy, so those long dead jerks wasted their money.
cartographer
Member
Those Confederados.
How did that happen and who is it.
mullet2000
Member
History is people, not objects.
People tearing these down is much more historical than the statues themselves.
People tearing these down is much more historical than the statues themselves.
To be clear, here, aren't most of the people in this topic making the "preserve history" argument calling for them to be taken down and put in museums, not left in place?
I sure as hell am, and I apologise if that wasn't clear enough.
I can see great potential in using them to make a striking display based on that graph of their erection dates.
I sure as hell am, and I apologise if that wasn't clear enough.
I can see great potential in using them to make a striking display based on that graph of their erection dates.
They're a waste of space either way.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
Well having these statues around clearly didn't make people learn how to be less racist or remember more about American history.
KeyBladerXIII
Member
Geez, that's a lot of statues.
I say move the ones from the 1800s to museums (I like old shit, sue me), the rest can be demolished, blown up, tossed into the sea, etc.
I say move the ones from the 1800s to museums (I like old shit, sue me), the rest can be demolished, blown up, tossed into the sea, etc.
Ya there is one here in Arizona lol. It's not a statue of a person but it is confedera monument.
LucidMomentum
Member
Ayo come get this shit outta Cali I don't want them here.
This argument makes no sense to me. You and others argue that they have no historical value then go on to say why these statues were put up which to me sounds like something that might give them historical value.
As always I am for taking them down, putting them in a warehouse, and letting experts decide if they are worth keeping. Based on what I have read most of them wouldn't make the cut, but a handful might be worth keeping around in a museum.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
The 1 in Massachusetts is a memorial for prisoners who died at Fort Warren during the war.
As of this morning it's been boarded up: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2017/08/16/massachusetts-confederate-monument-boarded-up/
Governor Baker is trying to get it removed, but since it's on a National Landmark site the state can't just up and remove it without going through the National Park Service
Edit: it was actually boxed up/covered a few days ago; here's a tweet detailing the process to get it removed more: https://twitter.com/stannenb/status/897267446045913089
As of this morning it's been boarded up: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2017/08/16/massachusetts-confederate-monument-boarded-up/
Governor Baker is trying to get it removed, but since it's on a National Landmark site the state can't just up and remove it without going through the National Park Service
Edit: it was actually boxed up/covered a few days ago; here's a tweet detailing the process to get it removed more: https://twitter.com/stannenb/status/897267446045913089
Fuck, I'm Brazilian and didn't know that
I saw that. From Oklahoma too. We didn't even participate in the Civil War and weren't a state at all until nearly 50 years later.
And yet I see so many confederate flags and people talking about their "southern pride"...
As of 2016, CALIFORNIA had schools named after Robert E. Lee????????????
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
At first when I saw there were four of these in Pennsylvania I was incensed. Upon researching it seems that most of them are historical markers and museum pieces at the Gettysburg museum and historic area. While I'm not a supporter of memorializing anything confederate I think having them in so specific a historical context as a battlefield historic park and museum is a bit different.
You know that CA has sections of hardcore GoP support in places like the valley.
It's just the coastal cities that completely drown out their votes.
Hence why CA has GOP members in the house.
0ptimusPayne
Member
For all the people saying erasing history yall need to realize this shit is in countless books and you can read about it all over the internet and libraries everywhere. Ive never seen these statues provide any education towards our countries dark past, but rather they stand to glorify these people.
This is really illuminating.
The people arguing on behalf of the confederacy aren't big on knowledge and education to begin with, so this is a moot point.
Mechanized
Member
Not only that, but the confederacy weren't heroes, we can remember the civil war with a monument to the lives lost on the correct side of history instead of a tribute to monsters.
Fenderputty
Banned
The first major uptick in the graph not only coincides with plessy vs ferguson, but also the rise of the KKK to it's peak in the 1920's.
tonysidaway
Member
They had antimiscegenation laws until the Loving case ruled them unconstitutional. California isn't just all swimming pools and movie stars.
All the "moderates" in this thread saying that this pieces of trash need to be stored in a museum to preserve "history" are fucking delusional. Maybe you guys should open a book and find out why people are against these monuments existing in the first place.
Burn them all down including the ones made during the 1800s. There's no need to glorify traitorous slave owners in 2017.
Burn them all down including the ones made during the 1800s. There's no need to glorify traitorous slave owners in 2017.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Wow..
Yeah I was just thinking that it seemed to coincide with Jim Crow laws, and related issues.
Amazing how blatant it is when you see the data laid out.
No, it doesn't. The KKK didn't reform significantly until 1915.
Well Nazis did flee to South America.
To reinforce just how recent most of these monuments are (and, for some years, what the spikes correspond to) here's a little graphic. As someone said, these monuments are NOT part of this nation's history, they were primarily used as a message to minorities to sit down and shut up. That massive spike after Plessy v Fergusen is no coincidence, especially with most being in front of courthouses. Then you have the huge flood of school-based ones during the Civil Rights movement.
source:
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/whoseheritage_splc.pdf
deezayum
They should go in a museum of tolerance with a plaque stating they were raised in the civil rights movement and why they were removed.
Edit: or shitcan them
Not sure if this is new thread worthy, but the Hollywood Forever Cemetery removed their Confederate memorial today: http://www.foxla.com/news/local-news/274054184-story
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Hah, that quote is amazing.
Yeah, it's transparent bullshit.
And wow @ California having schools named after Robert E. Lee... just.... how
- Status