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[Fury451]

Combat maps with multiple characters are part of the season pass?

Seems that way. Sad, but honestly I'm just relieved they'll be in there at all

 

[Messi]

WB Montreal is good news since Origins missions were really good. but Babs as the Batgirl is just... she is really not an interesting Batgirl at all.

Cassandra Cain the the superior Batgirl, She is the best melee fighter of the entire Bat clan too (on par with her mother) and also a sword fighter on par with Katana. it's crazy that we don't get her in Arkham series. Freeflow system will be amazing with her ability to read movements and body language and her super speed.

Who?

 

[ZeroX03]

Warner Montreal? Now I'm starting to regret that season pass. Didn't realize we'd be getting junk from them.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Warner Montreal? Now I'm starting to regret that season pass. Didn't realize we'd be getting junk from them.

Origins is awesome though and excels over some aspects of Arkham games.

I think they'll do a good job. Still not getting the season pass though.

 

[Norwegian_Imposter]

Origins is awesome though and excels over some aspects of Arkham games.

I think they'll do a good job. Still not getting the season pass though.

Yeah I really enjoyed the Arkham Origin games.

 

[ZeroX03]

Origins is awesome though and excels over some aspects of Arkham games.

Origins isn't awesome unless you like ruined combat and glitches everywhere. It's got better music than the other games, I'll give it that and that alone

Hell their expansion DLC just took the Mr Freeze boss battle and made it a lot worse.

 

[neogaffer1]

It's called "A Matter of Family," I wouldn't be surprised if it's based off of that Nu52 arc where

Spoiler

she kills her brother to save her mother.

Origins isn't awesome unless you like ruined combat and glitches everywhere. It's got better music than the other games, I'll give it that and that alone

This. The combat has been tweaked to be much less enjoyable to pander to the same people who thought SoM had terrible combat, the story sucks for reasons I elaborated earlier in another thread about how it just spits on Batman canon, it's still really glitchy, and game design in general just sucked.

 

[Noray]

Warner Montreal? Now I'm starting to regret that season pass. Didn't realize we'd be getting junk from them.

wow so wrong. Origins had the best story of the Arkham games. I'm really looking forward to this and I hope they get the game fixed on PC before then. Looking forward to seeing them flesh out the relationship between Barbara and Tim.

 

[PinkCrayon]

Origins isn't awesome unless you like ruined combat and glitches everywhere. It's got better music than the other games, I'll give it that and that alone

Hell their expansion DLC just took the Mr Freeze boss battle and made it a lot worse.

Finally someone with some sense.

 

[Skux]

We have no real idea what these are going to be. Waiting for the GotY edition keeps justifying itself.

 

[kodecraft]

Awesome that WB Montreal is doing this.

 

[LeonSPBR]

LOL

What surprises me is that the DLC is coming so soon.

 

[neogaffer1]

wow so wrong. Origins had the best story of the Arkham games. I'm really looking forward to this and I hope they get the game fixed on PC before then. Looking forward to seeing them flesh out the relationship between Barbara and Tim.

No.

As a huge comic fan and as someone who has 100%'d the game and am on my way to do it again in New Game +, I really need to get something off of my chest.

I really think both Arkham Origins and Arkham Knight are the worst stories in the franchise. Let me explain this: in Arkham Asylum the whole story is based in the canon of the Batman comics, maybe a late 2000s pre-52 arc or something similar. If you looked at any of the bios, they all listed the comic origins, and the comic issue each character first appeared in. In City, it just continued this, and its big megaton was the death of Joker. It still treated the Batman canon with complete respect, and added instead of removed or changed.

All of this was turned around in Origins. They looked at the Batman canon and said, "eeeeeh." So instead of a Batman: Year One adaption, we got this completely original story that:

1. Took Knightfall and diluted it into a side story in a Batman v Joker confict
2. Diluted the first Joker/Batman conflict to a Black Mask story
3. Diluted Black Mask to a nonfactor, a skin to hide Joker behind

And while the story itself was pretty well written, some of the things it replaced in the canon are some of the definitive Batman arcs. They are untouchable in both significance and writing. Arkham Knight takes this even further--it legitimizes everything that happened in Origins by continually calling back to it, where many of the supervillans make it known the last time they met the Bat was when Origins took place (then what happened the other 10 years?). Worst of all, though, is that it goes further

Spoiler

and ruins the Under the Red Hood arc. Now, the comic arc itself isn't as impressive as Knightfall or similar arcs. But the movie adaption of that? Simply amazing, and that alone legitimizes the comic counterpart. However, having Arkham Knight be the Red Hood means that pretty great arc is turned into a side story in a Scarecrow arc. And while the main arc is pretty good, a momentous story is turned into basically nothing.

This is the problem I have with the series, really, it went from respecting and adding to the canon set by the comics to replacing and creating its own canon that is decidedly inferior to the one that already existed.

I see where you are coming from.

With Origins I think people mistake it having a good story (which it doesn't really, with things like the Joker impersonating Black Mask not really making sense) with the fact that it is mostly true to the characters. So Bane, the Joker, Batman, Alfred, Gordon, they all feel multi-faceted and not just like 2D representations of their comic book counterparts.

I give Origins a pass because its story clearly came from a place of trying to fix Arkham Asylum's shit. You might go "But the Joker / Black Mask connection doesn't make sense" but that's an effort to give a reasoning to why the Joker seems to operate out of Sionis Industries in Arkham City. And you might think "Why did they turn Bane into an idiot" but that's because of how he appears in Arkham Asylum. It does its best to satisfy the series canon and be more true to what the actual characters are.

Knight I have a bigger problem with.

Spoiler

The way they handle the Red Hood Origins just shows a misunderstanding of the character. In the comics Batman holds Jason Todd's corpse in his hands. In Arkham Knight Batman realizes that Jason Todd has been gone for 6 months and replaces him. In the comics it's something that, next to the death of his parents, is the most tragic moment in Bruce Wayne's life. In the game it seems like Batman saw Jason Todd get shot in the head in a video and just accepts that as that, which when Jason is actually alive just makes Batman seem like a shit detective and person. Then Jason returns and despite the fact that the word on the street is that Batman finally killed the Joker his anger is actually directed at Batman, and all it takes is a conversation for him to change to saving Bruce's life.

In an attempt to combine elements of Return of the Joker and Under the Red Hood they missed the meaning of the events of both. Both Batman and Jason act out of character multiple times.

I like the main-narrative of Knight, I just think that things like

Spoiler

the Joker blood

and Arkham Knight detracted from the core story and didn't have satisfying closure.

 

[mrpeabody]

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Origins isn't awesome unless you like ruined combat and glitches everywhere. It's got better music than the other games, I'll give it that and that alone

Hell their expansion DLC just took the Mr Freeze boss battle and made it a lot worse.

A rehash alone is better than no boss fights.
Not even counting Origins great other boss fights.

 

[Walpurgis]

Warner Montreal? Now I'm starting to regret that season pass. Didn't realize we'd be getting junk from them.

I just finished Arkham Origins yesterday and it easily had a better story than Asylum and City. I loved City but they crammed in too many villains which over-complicated the story. Origins dodged this pitfall with the assassin plot. Origins felt much more focused and actually fleshed out characters like Gordon, Bane, Batman and Alfred and his relationship with Bruce. What impressed me most was their handling of the Joker and how the Batman "changed things". The Joker's dialogue was really well written and the game had a fantastic story. The only issues with the game are the ugly ass city, the lack of use of said city (probably for the better), minor glitches and framerate issues and some combat problems. The level design was very good.

I wouldn't be worried about Warner Bros. Montreal's ability to match (or pass) Rocksteady's ability in the story and characters department. I could understand concerns about gameplay but I think it will turn out fine. I believe that they were rushed on Arkham Origins and WB didn't allow them enough resources to even patch the game after a certain point. I am a firm believer that if given the chance, WB Montreal could match Rocksteady in gameplay. However, it is possible that they may be rushed with this Batgirl DLC too.

It's called "A Matter of Family," I wouldn't be surprised if it's based off of that Nu52 arc where

Spoiler

she kills her brother to save her mother.

This. The combat has been tweaked to be much less enjoyable to pander to the same people who thought SoM had terrible combat, the story sucks for reasons I elaborated earlier in another thread about how it just spits on Batman canon, it's still really glitchy, and game design in general just sucked.

You should probably spoiler tag that. I don't read the comics and I doubt most people here do.

 

[Sober]

Well, it came early, so I guess they decided to frontload the majority of the content of the 40$ season pass.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Warner Montreal? Better than the main game confirmed.

 

[Vire]

Leaked screen? Some mad max looking joker thugs.

 

[On Demand]

Warner Montreal? Better than the main game confirmed.

Don't you hate when studios fall off?

 

[matrix-cat]

I was really hoping this Batgirl DLC would be a big thing like Harley's Revenge/Cold, Cold Heart, but it it's five pounds I'm guessing it'll just be another 15 minute time waster.

 

[Walpurgis]

I was really hoping this Batgirl DLC would be a big thing like Harley's Revenge/Cold, Cold Heart, but it it's five pounds I'm guessing it'll just be another 15 minute time waster.

I haven't played the Cold Heart DLC but Harley's Revenge was a time waster itself. It was terribly disappointing and forgettable. It can't be much worse than that.

 

[lovely ladies]

It would be cool if WB Montreal got to model their own characters, would like to see their spin on certain looks. I wonder if they designed the Batgirl look or if it was Rocksteady's.

 

[Vire]

I haven't played the Cold Heart DLC but Harley's Revenge was a time waster itself. It was terribly disappointing and forgettable. It can't be much worse than that.

Can't be worse? Did you play the pre-order bonus DLC for AK? Makes Harley's Revenge look like a masterpiece.

 

[matrix-cat]

I haven't played the Cold Heart DLC but Harley's Revenge was a time waster itself. It was terribly disappointing and forgettable. It can't be much worse than that.

I just mean in terms of length and stuff to do. Harley's Revenge wasn't spectacular, but it was leagues beyond the throwaway Arkham Knight DLC we've seen so far. I didn't much like Cold, Cold Heart either (well, I liked most of it until that awful Freeze fight), so I'm still waiting to see a really good 2-3 hour expansion for a Batman game.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Can't be worse? Did you play the pre-order bonus DLC for AK? Makes Harley's Revenge look like a masterpiece.

FWIW, according AK's credit's Warner Montreal also did the preorder DLC for Knight (Red Hood, Harley, Scarecrow).

 

[Vire]

FWIW, according AK's credit's Warner Montreal also did the preorder DLC for Knight (Red Hood, Harley, Scarecrow).

Lovely, that explains a lot then...

 

[Rei no Otaku]

Who?

DC's plan is working well I see.

Lovely, that explains a lot then...

To be fair, I doubt they were given much budget for those. Just some cheap ass preorder bonuses to toss to the wolves.

 

[lovely ladies]

FWIW, according AK's credit's Warner Montreal also did the preorder DLC for Knight (Red Hood, Harley, Scarecrow).

Oh well that kills pretty much any enthusiasm for it then lol.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Please let Batgirl have freeroam but when you do you are either Cass or Steph.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I really liked Arkham Knight, but unless this gets rave reviews I'll pass. The Harley's Revenge or whatever it was called DLC for Arkham City was terrible. I regret getting that more than horse armor.

 

[ZeroX03]

A rehash alone is better than no boss fights.
Not even counting Origins great other boss fights.

What great boss fights? The series has by and large had shitty boss fights except for Mr Freeze, Origins is no exception.

Warner Montreal? Better than the main game confirmed.

FWIW, according AK's credit's Warner Montreal also did the preorder DLC for Knight (Red Hood, Harley, Scarecrow).

lol

 

[Walpurgis]

Can't be worse? Did you play the pre-order bonus DLC for AK? Makes Harley's Revenge look like a masterpiece.

I just mean in terms of length and stuff to do. Harley's Revenge wasn't spectacular, but it was leagues beyond the throwaway Arkham Knight DLC we've seen so far. I didn't much like Cold, Cold Heart either (well, I liked most of it until that awful Freeze fight), so I'm still waiting to see a really good 2-3 hour expansion for a Batman game.

Yikes. I haven't bought Arkham Knight yet (waiting for GotY edition) but I never imagined that they could release DLC worse than that. I think this Batgirl DLC will make or break the season pass because it seems like it is a major part of it (only interesting thing in it, tbh). If it isn't substantial then I think WB will suddenly have a lot more pissed off customers.

 

[Rei no Otaku]

Please let Batgirl have freeroam but when you do you are either Cass or Steph.

That would be great. I really got into Steph's run as Batgirl right before the New 52 messed everything up. I wasn't expecting to like it as much as I did.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Please let Batgirl have freeroam but when you do you are either Cass or Steph.

It takes place in a new, standalone location.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I'll reserve judgement until I play it but my concerns are the developer and the price. I was hoping for a decently sized Batgirl storyline but I don't trust WB Montreal to deliver on the scope of the pack I had in mind. Much less so when it costs this much. I worry it is going to be the same length as the Harley Quinn pack.

EDIT: I didn't even think about this but it probably means WB Montreal is designing the character. UGH. They better have stepped up their game from the remote claw and shock gloves design philosophy. Also, Batgirl better fight just as smoothly as the rest of the characters. I don't know how they messed up the combat in Origins where it was just off a lot of the time but they better not do it here.

I find the combat to be off in AK, too.

 

[geomon]

Think I'll wait to see how good this is before I get that season pass. Sorry but I simply don't trust WB Montreal at all after Origins.

 

[ZeroX03]

I find the combat to be off in AK, too.

Yeah AK's combat has problems, especially when there's lots of enemies. It is nowhere near as bad as Origins mind you.

 

[kng3025]

I guess Arkham Orange is the new black?

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

It takes place in a new, standalone location.

I mean in general.
Story wise it wouldn't make sense having Barbara Batgirl running around during Knight's time so if you pick her for freeroam you simply get a skin edited Batgirl.

What great boss fights? The series has by and large had shitty boss fights except for Mr Freeze, Origins is no exception.





lol

Firefly, Bane, Shiva, Deathstroke?

 

[scitek]

Yeah AK's combat has problems, especially when there's lots of enemies. It is nowhere near as bad as Origins mind you.

Replaying Origins now, and I think the main problem is later on, the enemies get back up and attack you way too quickly. I can sometimes barely even get a chance to counter because I've committed to attacking someone else.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yeah AK's combat has problems, especially when there's lots of enemies. It is nowhere near as bad as Origins mind you.

AK (much to my surprise) had many of the same problems that Arkham Origins had.

Specifically with the camera being too close to Batman (you'd get hit from an enemy you couldn't see) and inexplicably whiffing on attacks.

Arkham City didn't have those problems. Nor the Arkham Origins challenge rooms.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Replaying Origins now, and I think the main problem is later on, the enemies get back up and attack you way too quickly. I can sometimes barely even get a chance to counter because I've committed to attacking someone else.

Arkham Origins was a glitchy game and I think the combat was affected by it in some way. At the beginning of the game, the enemies seem to move at normal speeds, but as the game goes on they start to do crazy things such as being able to hit you really quick from across the screen, almost as if the enemies were in their own freeflow mode.

 

[Seven Force]

Firefly, Bane, Shiva, Deathstroke?

I can see how people take issue with those boss fights. Firefly is pretty much "Spam Glue Grenades and then use the Batclaw - rinse & repeat", Deathstroke is sort of a really elaborate QTE, and you pretty much fight goons more than you do Shiva herself. I think Bane is decent enough design wise, though.

That being said, I enjoy Arkham series boss fights not for the mechanics (Because let's face it, outside of Mr. Freeze, there aren't really any other boss fights I'd call well designed), but for the spectacle, and the novelty of being able to fight DC villains in a game with half decent combat mechanics and production values. Origins and City delivered there for me at least, and that's all I ever wanted.

 

[ZeroX03]

Firefly, Bane, Shiva, Deathstroke?

None of those are good boss fights except maybe Firefly. Shiva and Deathstroke aren't much different from ordinary fights but with mechanics from City's Ra's fight in them. Bane's first fight is an Asylum rehash and the second one a really janky version of Freeze. Firefly is an interesting looking boss but not exactly a challenge. But I don't think any boss fights in the entire series are considered great except for Freeze. This isn't Metal Gear.

Replaying Origins now, and I think the main problem is later on, the enemies get back up and attack you way too quickly. I can sometimes barely even get a chance to counter because I've committed to attacking someone else.

Warner Montreal increased animation/attack speeds on some enemy moves and added new attacks without adjusting the speeds or counter windows of older stuff. Leading to a game where enemies where faster than the majority of your tools. They took City's combat and didn't know what they were doing with it.

 

[matrix-cat]

I was just thinking that if they're charging $6.99 I'd hope this Batgirl DLC would be better than the Harley and Red Hood ones. Then I realised that if WB sold those two separately they would totally have charged $6.99 for them. All hope is lost.

 

[Solidsoul]

I am not concerned about the quality of the Batgirl DLC at all, at least in regards to the fact it is done by WB Montreal. They did a fantastic job with Arkham Origins considering the time they had to make it and the fact they had to reuse alot from the prior Arkham games to make it work. If the Batgirl DLC dissapoints, it will probably have to do with the fact that it's short, but everything I am seeing points to it being a least two hours. It makes sense that, in order to make a sizeable DLC story while Rocksteady created the main game they got WB Montreal to make it. They said the rest of the DLC will be done by Rocksteady, but everything else, from what we know is supposed to be a smaller endeavor.

To the people that crap all over Origins, whether it be because they think it legitimitally sucks as a game, or because it doesn't line up with canon from other Batman media I have to say i severley disagree and i'd like to point out strengths and weakness' all the Arkham games have.

Arkham Asylum

The Good:
-Great, but simple story.
-Awesome atmosphere.
-Paid homage to Batman's legacy
-Started the Arkham series

The Bad:
-Comparitive to what we have now, simple aged combat
-Not much for open areas
-No real gliding/traversing (Batmobile if you liked it) other than walking/running
-Titan Joker wasn't the best way to go out

Arkham City

The Good:
-Opened up the playspace from Arkham Asylum
-Heavily improved combat system
-Better upgrade system/Menus
-Introduced side missions

The Bad:
-Underwhelming end reveals, from protocol 10 to the main villian
-Somewhat all over the board story (I didn't mind it at all)

Arkham Origins:

The Good:
-Really good story
-Best Boss fights in series
-Character relationship building adds to other games (Alfred/Barbara/Slade/etc.)

The Bad:
-Boring, re-used overworld
-Worst asthetic in series
-Wasted development resources on multiplayer
-The least stable game
-Worst Upgrade system/Menus in series

Arkham Knight:

The Good:
-Best Traversal in series
-Scope, world building at it's best
-Pretty good story overall
-Many awesome moments/Story callbacks
-Batmobile

The Bad:
-Batmobile (The over-use of it)
-Worst boss fights in series (Does the game have any?)
-Wasted potential with Arkham Knight (Personally, i liked it but see the complaints clearly)
-Challenge rooms gone in favor of AR
-Overpriced season pass
-Short laughable 10 minute DLC stories
-Three tiered ending makes the game go out with a fizzle and not a bang

Ultimatley they all had their own strengths and weakness', none of the games were perfect. Obiviously it's all subject to opinion but by my own analisys Arkham City was the strongest entry. I think in the end we got four really good games, and managed to make it there without one single horrific game, in a time when most series usually have at least one game that sticks out like a sore thumb. I also standby the fact that this is one interpretation of Batman, and it being an interpretation means it doesn't have to do everything the same as other forms of Batman media do.

Any positives/negatives i was really missing?

 

[Seven Force]

Any positives/negatives i was really missing?

Knight seems to have quite a few glitches. Not quite Origins tier I guess, but notable enough that they should be mentioned.

 

[PinkCrayon]

Firefly, Bane, Shiva, Deathstroke?

Shiva is just a regular enemy with a bunch of annoying karate guys, Deathstroke is just a regular enemy with the camera zoomed in that feels more like a qte than a fight, Bane is a charging doofus and Firefly is just Clayface with a jetpack.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

lol Arkham Oranges.

Although Warner Montreal has me a bit worried. Hope there's at least a few sweet boss fights in it.