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Battle Garegga Rev.2016 announced by Famitsu, "M2 ShotTriggers" release

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yeah it isn't ideal and definitely frustrating for collectors. Considering how great M2's Sega Ages releases were, I feel this has to be because they can't afford a low blu-ray print run. :(

Yeah, I mean, I'll obviously still buy this because it just wouldn't be right not to support M2 doing their thing with an absolute classic, let alone striking off on their own to deliver a release most of us would never have expected. Hopefully, they'll eventually have an opportunity to release the ShotTriggers series as a set, sorta like the Cave Collection on the 360.

I guess my real question to you is why the game being a digital download makes it any less a game than a game being encoded on a plastic disc that will probably become unreadable in 10-20 years anyway. You're approaching this as if it's the Persona 4 Social Link Expansion (which literally did not include the game in any form) but it seems to me there's an unusually high premium being attached to physical media when there is no real effective difference at this point.

Honestly, it's just the fanciful feeling of substance. If I buy something, I want to get a *thing*.
 
$40 is a premium, but it is one I am willing to pay for M2. They have more than proven their abilities and care for detail. I can understand if it is asking too much for some. For as bold with pricing Nintendo can be, even something like Earthbound which can go for $200-$300 used, was put out at $10.

I don't think it is fair to directly compare the two as Nintendo is spreading the costs out among many VC releases, but all the same, it is a premium.
 

duckroll

Member
Can someone confirm if these guys are the same M2 that made the Sega 3D classics for 3DS, and ported Koihime Enbu to Steam?

It's the same M2 who did the PS2 Sega Ages line (the good ones, not the earlier ones) including the Treasure Box Collection, Phantasy Star Collection, and Monster World Collection. The same M2 who did the Sega 3D Classics line on 3DS. And the same M2 who did the Neo Geo Classics on PSN.
 
I didn't know M2 Ported Koihime Enbu

It's the same M2 who did the PS2 Sega Ages line (the good ones, not the earlier ones) including the Treasure Box Collection, Phantasy Star Collection, and Monster World Collection. The same M2 who did the Sega 3D Classics line on 3DS. And the same M2 who did the Neo Geo Classics on PSN.

Specifically the Neo Geo Station titles for PSP and PS3. I don't think they did PS4 Metal Slug 3, did they?
 

Dremark

Banned
PSN launched on the PS3 and still operates just fine on the PS3 today. The PSP is the only hardware for which a direct connection for PSN has been shut down for, but even then, there are still plenty of options for installing games from PSN onto a PSP. So no, PSN has not "bitten the dust".

I'm also not sure you're aware of how a PS4 works but in most cases the game is tying to your online account and using the HDD in some way regardless of whether you inserted a disc or started a download. In the end it's the same bits and bytes.

Sure, you could store the discs away and they'll probably last a few decades until the glues holding the layers together finally separate, but if you're actually using them as games, they're likely not going to last nearly as long. I've had PlayStation games literally shatter in my hands. I've yet to lose any game I've downloaded for any platform in such a fashion.

PSN is not the only digital distribution platform which has ever existed.

I am aware of how a PS4 works. I can put a disc in any PS4 and play it, it doesn't matter if PSN is up and running or not or if my HDD with the data on it is still functioning.

Another part of the value is that if this game was a physical release it would have resale value. Granted I don't think I'd be selling the game, but it would be nice to have the option if something came up, especially as these type of games generally go up in value (like the Saturn version did).

Everything eventually stops working and/or ceases to function, including both of us. I treat my stuff well and haven't had issues with discs so I trust that more long term than data on a hard drive or an online service which will likely be shut down at some point down the line.

I'm not really sure what your issue is with me not paying out money for a game I don't have to spend as much on, but if it bothers you so much perhaps you should try arguing the benefits of me paying out more for the game. Honestly, even if you shot down every single reason I have for preferring physical (and you haven't accomplished that at all) you've still argued zero benefit for paying a premium price for the game. I'm not going to play it right away, it's digital and it's not going to sell out like a physical copy would and I see absolutely no reason to pay out the full price when I can wait and possibly get it cheaper later.
 

duckroll

Member
I didn't know M2 Ported Koihime Enbu



Specifically the Neo Geo Station titles for PSP and PS3. I don't think they did PS4 Metal Slug 3, did they?

Yeah, the Neo Geo Station stuff.

http://www.mtwo.co.jp/en/development/

There's a full list of games they made, games they ported, and retro games they emulated/ported on their site. It's pretty awesome.

Oh yeah, they did the great shmup collections on PSP for Konami too, including SALAMANDER PORTABLE YUM YUM.
 
Yeah, the Neo Geo Station stuff.

http://www.mtwo.co.jp/en/development/

There's a full list of games they made, games they ported, and retro games they emulated/ported on their site. It's pretty awesome.

Oh yeah, they did the great shmup collections on PSP for Konami too, including SALAMANDER PORTABLE YUM YUM.

While on the awesome that is M2, worth pointing out the Rebirth titles on Wii are fantastic and considering the state of Konami are likely to be stuck there forever so grab them before they are gone.

Can take some doing to get a Wii connected to the internet but it is worth it.
 
It's the same M2 who did the PS2 Sega Ages line (the good ones, not the earlier ones) including the Treasure Box Collection, Phantasy Star Collection, and Monster World Collection. The same M2 who did the Sega 3D Classics line on 3DS. And the same M2 who did the Neo Geo Classics on PSN.

Yep. Huge fan of them, have all the 3D Classics and almost all of the PS2 Sega Ages. It seems that after googling some, they are the same M2 that worked on Koihime Enbu, which was a solid Steam release. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/452420/) They also released some other games on Steam where they are credited as the sole developer. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/443330/)

Interesting to see them publish on Steam, I hope it pays off.
 

NDPsycho

Member
I've had PlayStation games literally shatter in my hands. I've yet to lose any game I've downloaded for any platform in such a fashion.

Really? Just shatter and fall apart in your hands? I mean, if that's happened more than once as a fluke, you might want to get checked for super powers or something.

On the other side of that, let me check again if I can access my OG Xbox and download my original Halo map packs....nope, still not there.

I want this too, but I'm not buying it if I can't get it physical either. I'll support it if it meets my needs, like I did the vita port for DBC. Not knocking you or anyone else that likes digital. If it suits you, go for it, we all have different motivators and this won't meet mine. Which is a shame, because clearly they're missing out on some potential sales. Maybe it could get a physical release later.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

Disc rot is a real and big problem and happening at a much more accelerated rate than what was expected as disc media took over. Just because your discs haven't had problems so far is a "my side of the boat isn't sinking, everything is fine" mentality.

To my knowledge any entity serious about archival and preservation efforts have written off discs entirely as they will not last very long even if well taken care of.
 

NDPsycho

Member
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

Disc rot is a real and big problem and happening at a much more accelerated rate than what was expected as disc media took over. Just because your discs haven't had problems so far is a "my side of the boat isn't sinking, everything is fine" mentality.

To my knowledge any entity serious about archival and preservation efforts have written off discs entirely as they will not last very long even if well taken care of.

I'm sure it does exist. Many things happen that I never personally experience. I have yet to see any serious study or research which provides failure rates or proof of it becoming a big or accelerated issue though. If you are aware of any, please share. My point still stands regarding digital distribution through the original Xbox live. It 100% is not available, it no longer exists, it's not a my side of the boat thing.
 
I'm sure it does exist. Many things happen that I never personally experience. I have yet to see any serious study or research which provides failure rates or proof of it becoming a big or accelerated issue though. If you are aware of any, please share. My point still stands regarding digital distribution through the original Xbox live. It 100% is not available, it no longer exists, it's not a my side of the boat thing.

PSN isn't Xbox Live. The original Xbox was also a platform that didn't support digital downloads of full games, period. DLC for that platform was rudimentary at best and has been acknowledged to be developed in a shortsighted manner. No platform since has made the same mistakes.
 

NDPsycho

Member
PSN isn't Xbox Live. The original Xbox was also a platform that didn't support digital downloads of full games, period. DLC for that platform was rudimentary at best and has been acknowledged to be developed in a shortsighted manner. No platform since has made the same mistakes.

CDs manufactured in the 80s aren't blu-rays either, but I'll see myself out and stop detracting. The real take away here isn't to sway anyone's opinion anyway we all like things for the reasons we do. I'm genuinely happy for those that are looking forward to this digitally. Just as I am disappointed for myself and others who wanted a physical release. Both have a place, both should be supported.
 
I'm sure it does exist. Many things happen that I never personally experience. I have yet to see any serious study or research which provides failure rates or proof of it becoming a big or accelerated issue though.

Have you yet to see it because you haven't even looked? There is lots of information out there about it. If historical societies, museums, and the Library of freaking Congress didn't see this becoming an issue as quickly as it did then I don't know what sort of definition of accelerated you are looking for.

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...ds-last-it-depends-but-definitely-not-forever
Back in the 1990s, historical societies, museums and symphonies across the country began transferring all kinds of information onto what was thought to be a very durable medium: the compact disc.

Now, preservationists are worried that a lot of key information stored on CDs — from sound recordings to public records — is going to disappear. Some of those little silver discs are degrading, and researchers at the Library of Congress are trying to figure out why.


http://gizmodo.com/how-long-will-cds-actually-last-1624104233
In those halcyon days of the 1990s, museums and symphonies began transferring their archives to CDs—a decision that in retrospect may not have been so wise. The catch is that some CDs are durable and others are not; we just had no way of knowing back then.
 

NDPsycho

Member
Have you yet to see it because you haven't even looked? There is lots of information out there about it. If historical societies, museums, and the Library of freaking Congress didn't see this becoming an issue as quickly as it did then I don't know what sort of definition of accelerated you are looking for.

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...ds-last-it-depends-but-definitely-not-forever


http://gizmodo.com/how-long-will-cds-actually-last-1624104233

I'm trying to back out of this....but did you even read those? Neither projects failure rates and the first even acknowledges that the disks could last centuries if treated well and that the example they have is from a specific batch from a specific manufacturer.
 
So apparently Raizing themselves did the Saturn port, for some reason I thought it might have been Ving.

It's too bad the LE doesn't come with the physical version but I get why. I think I'll get the LE, buy the disc whenever it comes out and then sell my download code.
 
I'm trying to back out of this....but did you even read those? Neither projects failure rates and the first even acknowledges that the disks could last centuries if treated well and that the example they have is from a specific batch from a specific manufacturer.

I did read it, yes. The point is that disc media is volatile. It could last a century, it could last until next year. They are moving away from it to server based solutions as it is not suitable for storage, as they originally believed it to be.

You've made it clear that you see the downsides and challenges to digital distribution, and have responded poorly to anyone who tries to point out physical media, especially disc based, also has downsides and challenges. Those include costs, business risk (dead stock), and is not even a guarantee to solve the big problem you have of Sony taking the game away from you.

Fact of the matter, nobody is saying they wouldn't love a physical copy of the game. But I am not going to give M2 a ton of shit because they can't make the business case to press 80 MB of data on a blu-ray occupying less than 0.01% of its data footprint for a game that will probably sell fewer copies than Minecraft did in the time it took me to write this up.
 
Does the physical version have a release date yet or is there only a date for the LE so far?

They did the Gradius collection too I guess? That's a really awesome collection.

M2 did not work on the Gradius Portable collection on PSP, they definitely did the Salamander PSP collection though (pretty sure they also did the PSP Parodius and Twin Bee collections too). Being able to play XEXEX anywhere is worth the price of Salamander Portable all by itself, and it's the only home port of the game. Just another reason to love M2.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
M2 did the Twinbee and Salamander collections for PSP but not Gradius or Parodius--those collections were handled by Konami Shanghai and they're not too bad.
 
M2 did the Twinbee and Salamander collections for PSP but not Gradius or Parodius--those collections were handled by Konami Shanghai and they're not too bad.

Thanks for the clarification, yeah they're all very good collections regardless and must owns for any shmup lover with a PSP.
 

Dremark

Banned
Fact of the matter, nobody is saying they wouldn't love a physical copy of the game. But I am not going to give M2 a ton of shit because they can't make the business case to press 80 MB of data on a blu-ray occupying less than 0.01% of its data footprint for a game that will probably sell fewer copies than Minecraft did in the time it took me to write this up.

No one is giving M2 any crap, they're just saying they're going to skip the game or wait for a discount. It's not really that complicated.

Personally I don't trust Sony to keep PSN up as long as a physical disc would last, if you do cool good for you. I don't really see the logic in making a collector's edition of a game and not pressing a disc for it either, but they've made a business decision and I understand that.

However it's ultimately irrelevant, I am not getting the same value out if a digital download as I would for a physical game and with it being a download only I have literally zero risk of a stock out so I'll just take my time and wait to pay less for it. Not really sure why this is an issue to you guys.
 

Narroo

Member
Sure, but it didn't work: Deathsmiles did good business, all their other games went back to selling what they usually did, including Deathsmiles 2. Waifus don't guarantee success in and of themselves.

I wonder if the Otaku's realized that they were in over their heads after Deathsmiles 1? Still, sales don't forgive things like Pink Sweets.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
M2's doing a promotional event for Battle Garegga tonight and they've announced an extended soundtrack release through SuperSweep: 2 disc, includes the original music, the Saturn OST and some new arranges by several VG composers and DJs.
 

Ramune

Member
M2's doing a promotional event for Battle Garegga tonight and they've announced an extended soundtrack release through SuperSweep: 2 disc, includes the original music, the Saturn OST and some new arranges by several VG composers and DJs.

Oh shoot! I'd definitely be down for that OST!
 
No one is giving M2 any crap, they're just saying they're going to skip the game or wait for a discount. It's not really that complicated.

Personally I don't trust Sony to keep PSN up as long as a physical disc would last, if you do cool good for you. I don't really see the logic in making a collector's edition of a game and not pressing a disc for it either, but they've made a business decision and I understand that.

However it's ultimately irrelevant, I am not getting the same value out if a digital download as I would for a physical game and with it being a download only I have literally zero risk of a stock out so I'll just take my time and wait to pay less for it. Not really sure why this is an issue to you guys.

I don't speak for everyone but for the most part I'm just trying to understand why people consider digital releases somehow not worth as much money as physical. You repeatedly cite a distrust of Sony as a steward of your data as a primary reason, but the best justification for this view brought up in thread is literally Xbox Live, which strikes me as a near total non-sequitur. PSN, in its 10 years of existence, has only ever cut direct access off for one platform (the PSP) but not before 1) making sure that PSP owners still had other means to access PSN content, and 2) going on a huge campaign in Japan to allow owners to access their UMD-based games via PSN so they could carry their game libraries to the Vita. The PlayStation 3, on which PSN launched, hasn't yet been cut off but Sony has already taken moves (most notably, PlayStation Now) to make sure people never lose access to what they own on the network. And yet they're still unworthy of trust after all this?

On a core level, it's not the media on which the game is delivered on that makes the value for me, but the game itself. The lack of a physical disc doesn't mean fewer people worked on, fine tuned, and delivered a game for people to play. Sure, I like holding shiny things in my hands as much as the next guy, but that's not going to stop me from letting the lack of a physical release keep me from games I would otherwise have no problems enjoying.
 
On a core level, it's not the media on which the game is delivered on that makes the value for me, but the game itself. The lack of a physical disc doesn't mean fewer people worked on, fine tuned, and delivered a game for people to play. Sure, I like holding shiny things in my hands as much as the next guy, but that's not going to stop me from letting the lack of a physical release keep me from games I would otherwise have no problems enjoying.

I think we can all agree it's nice that news about Garegga is on the front page of GAF daily this week.
 
I think we can all agree it's nice that news about Garegga is on the front page of GAF daily this week.

I disagree!

I want it hourly.


edit: to actually contribute something. There are screenshots of the UI out there. I don't want to link as I am not sure if they fall under the sort of thing like magazine scans. They are easy enough to find.

I am a fan of having so much information. I hope you can toggle some things, though. Having 25% of the screen dedicated to a table of controls is kind of silly.

Nevermind, new trailer has all the goods, check it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjRe_ahgD60

I looove the RANKGRAPH, what a cool UI element.
 

Dremark

Banned
I don't speak for everyone but for the most part I'm just trying to understand why people consider digital releases somehow not worth as much money as physical. You repeatedly cite a distrust of Sony as a steward of your data as a primary reason, but the best justification for this view brought up in thread is literally Xbox Live, which strikes me as a near total non-sequitur. PSN, in its 10 years of existence, has only ever cut direct access off for one platform (the PSP) but not before 1) making sure that PSP owners still had other means to access PSN content, and 2) going on a huge campaign in Japan to allow owners to access their UMD-based games via PSN so they could carry their game libraries to the Vita. The PlayStation 3, on which PSN launched, hasn't yet been cut off but Sony has already taken moves (most notably, PlayStation Now) to make sure people never lose access to what they own on the network. And yet they're still unworthy of trust after all this?

On a core level, it's not the media on which the game is delivered on that makes the value for me, but the game itself. The lack of a physical disc doesn't mean fewer people worked on, fine tuned, and delivered a game for people to play. Sure, I like holding shiny things in my hands as much as the next guy, but that's not going to stop me from letting the lack of a physical release keep me from games I would otherwise have no problems enjoying.

Perhaps the reason why you're having a difficult time understanding this is that you're only focusing on one of the many points that I have given and you're kind of ignoring a lot of things, including ones relating to that as well.

First off it's not a matter of "not trusting Sony". Sony is a good company but who even knows if they'll still be there long term. 20, 10 maybe even 5 years down the line they might not be around anymore. They've certainly had financial issues in the past and at the start of last Gen a lot of people seemed to think they'd be out of the industry entirely. maybe this sounds far fetched to you, but it's really not, the two major players when I got into gaming were Atari and Commodore and they didn't really stay at the top for very long. Since you brought it up though who knows how long they'll actually keep the severs up for. Who knows what they'll keep their terms of service as, who knows what they will do. If I have the game on a disc I can put it into a PS4 and play it no matter what happens with that stuff.

Another thing that I've pointed out and you've ignored entirely is that I can't resell a digital game. This is supposed to be a great game, but I don't know, I haven't played it. Buying digital means I have no resale value for it and also lose the option of selling it later.

You seem to be under the impression that I've said I am not buying this game (Again, another thing I've clearly stated is not the case, but you've ignored that). I'll buy the game later at a discount, again as I have previously stated there's literally no incentive for me to buy it right away. I have a backlog and the game will likely lower in price, since it's digital only and has literally no way of going out of stock I can wait.

Ultimately you can point out how many people worked on it and such, that doesn't really make any difference to me. They are ignoring my preferences so I don't really see any reason to bend over backwards to give them more money. Companies are not entitled to customer's money, it's not my responsibility to care about their financials or their staff, if they can't deliver what I want they get less money or no money.
 

SOME-MIST

Member
as someone who absolutely loves battle garegga and owns the areade pcb and Saturn version... I'll stick to digital. if it were on physical disc I would definitely preorder the LE, but I can do without the 'bonus items' that will just end up in a drawer.
 
In case it wasn't linked here yet, there is a long video that seems to be from a live event. It has a lot of info, a side-by-side comparison of the PS4 port vs the arcade PCB, and a live playthrough of the PS4 version. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G5k-zfLn78E

Perhaps the reason why you're having a difficult time understanding this is that you're only focusing on one of the many points that I have given and you're kind of ignoring a lot of things, including ones relating to that as well.

First off it's not a matter of "not trusting Sony". Sony is a good company but who even knows if they'll still be there long term. 20, 10 maybe even 5 years down the line they might not be around anymore. They've certainly had financial issues in the past and at the start of last Gen a lot of people seemed to think they'd be out of the industry entirely. maybe this sounds far fetched to you, but it's really not, the two major players when I got into gaming were Atari and Commodore and they didn't really stay at the top for very long. Since you brought it up though who knows how long they'll actually keep the severs up for. Who knows what they'll keep their terms of service as, who knows what they will do. If I have the game on a disc I can put it into a PS4 and play it no matter what happens with that stuff.

Another thing that I've pointed out and you've ignored entirely is that I can't resell a digital game. This is supposed to be a great game, but I don't know, I haven't played it. Buying digital means I have no resale value for it and also lose the option of selling it later.

You seem to be under the impression that I've said I am not buying this game (Again, another thing I've clearly stated is not the case, but you've ignored that). I'll buy the game later at a discount, again as I have previously stated there's literally no incentive for me to buy it right away. I have a backlog and the game will likely lower in price, since it's digital only and has literally no way of going out of stock I can wait.

Ultimately you can point out how many people worked on it and such, that doesn't really make any difference to me. They are ignoring my preferences so I don't really see any reason to bend over backwards to give them more money. Companies are not entitled to customer's money, it's not my responsibility to care about their financials or their staff, if they can't deliver what I want they get less money or no money.
I did miss a few points, sorry.

If Sony were to go away then you have bigger problems than not being able to connect to PSN: you eventually wouldn't have a PS4 to play the game with in the first place, because they wouldn't be made anymore. So in that respect, the playable lifespan of a physical vs digital purchase should be pretty similar, I would think.

I just don't put any thought into resale value when buying consumables. I buy games to play them, not as an investment. If I spent money on a game it means I thought it was money well spent. I'm not playing the stock market here.

There's no guarantee there will be a discount anytime soon. M2 publishing things on their own is a first, so who knows what their pricing strategy will be. I don't think you'd still be posting here if you weren't interested in the game at all, and I'd rather you enjoy the game rather than wait for a discount that might be a long time in coming.

I don't think there's anything else I haven't already adequately responded to at this point. I still don't think I understand, but I guess we just have very different value systems.
 
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Dremark

Banned
I did miss a few points, sorry.

If Sony were to go away then you have bigger problems than not being able to connect to PSN: you eventually wouldn't have a PS4 to play the game with in the first place, because they wouldn't be made anymore. So in that respect, the playable lifespan of a physical vs digital purchase should be pretty similar, I would think.

I just don't put any thought into resale value when buying consumables. I buy games to play them, not as an investment. If I spent money on a game it means I thought it was money well spent. I'm not playing the stock market here.

There's no guarantee there will be a discount anytime soon. M2 publishing things on their own is a first, so who knows what their pricing strategy will be. I don't think you'd still be posting here if you weren't interested in the game at all, and I'd rather you enjoy the game rather than wait for a discount that might be a long time in coming.

I don't think there's anything else I haven't already adequately responded to at this point. I still don't think I understand, but I guess we just have very different value systems.

You missed a lot of points.

Sony going out if business would not make every PS4 on earth magically stop functioning. Atari and Commodore have been defunct for decades and it's still easy to get working hardware for thier platforms if yours stops working.

I'm not playing the stock market with a game either but being able to resell it if I want to is a benefit you lose buy buying digitally and it's one that's really undeniable. If you purchase a game and it's bad, or you don't like it or it has technical issues you can resell it and get some of your money back. Not a very difficult concept to understand.

There's no guarantee the game will go on sale, but I don't really lose anything waiting either. I have enough of a backlog even with just high quality shooters I'm more than happy to wait, it's not like this is a new multiplayer game the scene will move on from like a fighting game, it's a shooter that's already had a home release for 20 years.

I still think you missed somethings but I'm not really concerned. I'm not really sure why this is so difficult to understand, I'm actually capable of understanding that other people have different preferences than I do so it's not difficult to understand it when other people have them. You come off extremely close minded when you dismiss something like resale value because it's not something you'd normally want to do.

Is it *REALLY* all that difficult to understand why someone might want to resell a game?

The entire way you've approached this conversation has been in a way to dismiss opinions which are different than yours, rather than to understand why someone would have a different preference, so I'm not really surprised I've wasted my time trying explain it to you.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The HUD stuff in the borders is optional, I take it?

Give me the OG screen with black borders any day.

It's M2. I trust it's an option.
 
I'm still going over ideas in my head on how to best get this running in my arcade cab. Right now that's a convoluted mess of 480p HDMI -> analog RGB -> scan convert to 240p. Maybe I'll have more ideas by the time this comes out.

You missed a lot of points.

I combed through the thread and, as I said previously, purposefully didn't respond to anything I felt I had addressed.

Sony going out if business would not make every PS4 on earth magically stop functioning. Atari and Commodore have been defunct for decades and it's still easy to get working hardware for thier platforms if yours stops working.

I'm sorry, but this argument is simply absurd. Are you honestly suggesting that a PS4 can be as easily repaired as gaming hardware from the 80s? A lot of things have happened since then, not only technological advances but the advent of proprietary ICs that you can't really pull off the shelf. The Saturn (for which the previous port of this game was released) was released nearly 22 years ago, and gaming preservationists still only barely understand the system, let alone are able to repair all but the most trivial mechanical failures. The most you are really able to do on your own with a modern console is redo the thermal interface, which isn't a catch-all solution to all that can go wrong.

Were Sony to go bankrupt tomorrow we would have working PS4s for the next 10-12 years tops before we start running out of units in public circulation to cannibalize. Sure, there will probably be units well maintained enough to keep working then, but those will be in the hands of private collectors and the prices they will start to command will make it quite infeasible for those to be changing hands.

To relate this all back to the original point: modern gaming consoles just don't last all that long, and their life expectancy puts a cap on how long a physical game release stays useful. This wasn't always the case, but it's a factor that became significant at about the same time it became possible to download full retail games instead of purchasing them physically.

I'm not playing the stock market with a game either but being able to resell it if I want to is a benefit you lose buy buying digitally and it's one that's really undeniable. If you purchase a game and it's bad, or you don't like it or it has technical issues you can resell it and get some of your money back. Not a very difficult concept to understand.

There's no guarantee the game will go on sale, but I don't really lose anything waiting either. I have enough of a backlog even with just high quality shooters I'm more than happy to wait, it's not like this is a new multiplayer game the scene will move on from like a fighting game, it's a shooter that's already had a home release for 20 years.

Since you seem to want me to state common sense explicitly, then yes, lack of ability to trade content is a known downside. But in the other case, Sony explicitly states that they will grant refunds if "the content is faulty". And considering the patch-as-you-go nature of games these days, any refund-worthy technical fault will be gone in a matter of weeks anyway.

I wouldn't be spending so many words on this argument if I didn't feel you are gating yourself away from experiences you might really enjoy over what is, in the end, not very much money at all. The asking price of this game - the digital release, not the physical bonus package - is about the equivalent to what I end up spending daily on food. There's also the point that I have a motivated self-interest to try to get as many people as possible to buy the game early to help ensure that M2 keeps this line of STGs coming, but that's secondary.

I still think you missed somethings but I'm not really concerned. I'm not really sure why this is so difficult to understand, I'm actually capable of understanding that other people have different preferences than I do so it's not difficult to understand it when other people have them. You come off extremely close minded when you dismiss something like resale value because it's not something you'd normally want to do.

Is it *REALLY* all that difficult to understand why someone might want to resell a game?

The entire way you've approached this conversation has been in a way to dismiss opinions which are different than yours, rather than to understand why someone would have a different preference, so I'm not really surprised I've wasted my time trying explain it to you.

I never said I don't empathize with people who want to resell their things. My point was merely that I don't think it's a healthy habit, on an individual level or for the industry at large, for buyers to consider resale value as a factor in their initial purchase decisions. I also feel that a purchase price of roughly $40 is not quite to the point that you should have pre-emptive buyer's remorse over something.

Battle Garegga, in particular, is a game the market has placed a huge premium on; the going rate for the Saturn version in fair condition is a whopping $260. I think it's a good thing that this release will serve as a much lowered barrier to entry, and I certainly hope prices like these will soon be a thing of the past. If the elimination of the used game market is the price that has to be paid for prices to be lower for everyone, then I'm personally all for it. (This, of course, necessarily assumes that Sony will be around to guarantee the price for a long time. But all that can be done to make sure that happens is to keep supporting them.)

To be frank, many of the arguments I've seen in this thread strike me as not particularly well thought out. I don't say that to be insulting or adversarial, but if the arguments themselves don't hold up to scrutiny, then I don't think they are going to persuade anyone. I'd rather that be taken as a prompt to produce more well-thought out rationales for your thinking rather than resorting to personal attacks to provide self-validation.
 

Dremark

Banned
I'm sorry, but this argument is simply absurd. Are you honestly suggesting that a PS4 can be as easily repaired as gaming hardware from the 80s? A lot of things have happened since then, not only technological advances but the advent of proprietary ICs that you can't really pull off the shelf. The Saturn (for which the previous port of this game was released) was released nearly 22 years ago, and gaming preservationists still only barely understand the system, let alone are able to repair all but the most trivial mechanical failures. The most you are really able to do on your own with a modern console is redo the thermal interface, which isn't a catch-all solution to all that can go wrong.

Were Sony to go bankrupt tomorrow we would have working PS4s for the next 10-12 years tops before we start running out of units in public circulation to cannibalize. Sure, there will probably be units well maintained enough to keep working then, but those will be in the hands of private collectors and the prices they will start to command will make it quite infeasible for those to be changing hands.

To relate this all back to the original point: modern gaming consoles just don't last all that long, and their life expectancy puts a cap on how long a physical game release stays useful. This wasn't always the case, but it's a factor that became significant at about the same time it became possible to download full retail games instead of purchasing them physically.

Since you seem to want me to state common sense explicitly, then yes, lack of ability to trade content is a known downside. But in the other case, Sony explicitly states that they will grant refunds if "the content is faulty". And considering the patch-as-you-go nature of games these days, any refund-worthy technical fault will be gone in a matter of weeks anyway.

I wouldn't be spending so many words on this argument if I didn't feel you are gating yourself away from experiences you might really enjoy over what is, in the end, not very much money at all. The asking price of this game - the digital release, not the physical bonus package - is about the equivalent to what I end up spending daily on food. There's also the point that I have a motivated self-interest to try to get as many people as possible to buy the game early to help ensure that M2 keeps this line of STGs coming, but that's secondary.

I never said I don't empathize with people who want to resell their things. My point was merely that I don't think it's a healthy habit, on an individual level or for the industry at large, for buyers to consider resale value as a factor in their initial purchase decisions. I also feel that a purchase price of roughly $40 is not quite to the point that you should have pre-emptive buyer's remorse over something.

Battle Garegga, in particular, is a game the market has placed a huge premium on; the going rate for the Saturn version in fair condition is a whopping $260. I think it's a good thing that this release will serve as a much lowered barrier to entry, and I certainly hope prices like these will soon be a thing of the past. If the elimination of the used game market is the price that has to be paid for prices to be lower for everyone, then I'm personally all for it. (This, of course, necessarily assumes that Sony will be around to guarantee the price for a long time. But all that can be done to make sure that happens is to keep supporting them.)

To be frank, many of the arguments I've seen in this thread strike me as not particularly well thought out. I don't say that to be insulting or adversarial, but if the arguments themselves don't hold up to scrutiny, then I don't think they are going to persuade anyone. I'd rather that be taken as a prompt to produce more well-thought out rationales for your thinking rather than resorting to personal attacks to provide self-validation.

Most of your arguments are absurd, unrealistic or simply self serving. There are 40 million PS4 unts on the market and the concept that they'll be unobtainable in a decade is ridiculous.

You're claiming that you see no advantage in a clear benefit and when you're called out on it you say it's "common sense" yet a post prior you were claiming there was no advantage.

You're claiming my arguments do not hold up to scrutiny, yet you're the only one arguing with me and the majority of your counter arguments are personal preference or ridiculous assumptions like the PS4 example above.

Your entire argument is that I shouldn't wait to purchase a game digitally when Im not going to be playing it any time soon and will likely be able to purchase it later for less, yet you've failed to make a single reasonable argument of why I should.

$40 is not a huge deal to me, but I see zero reason to pay it when I can pay less later. The fact the game has no resale value and will not go out of stock removes both the safeguard as well as any urgency in picking it up.

If you want to convince me, actually explain to me what the benefit of picking it up immediately are rather than by dancing around that explaining your personal opinion on resale or something else irrelevant.

I don't care what your personal opinions are, especially after discussing this long enough with you that it's obvious that you're unable to look at issues from any perspective other than your own. Give me some actual benefits of a day one purchase.
 
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