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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia

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S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Tiktaalik said:
That's good because he bombed in the last BC election and the BC NDP managed to turn what should have been a sure thing into yet another loss.

It seems more and more like the BC NDP are going to do a fine job screwing up this upcoming election too. BC NDP Leader John Horgan bafflingly raised the notwithstanding clause on some discussion about the TransMountain pipeline. Of course the Charter has nothing to do with this and Horgan just made himself look like an idiot.

The BC NDP platform is actually really good but christ they fuck it up every time. Just like every election the BC Liberals are going to bring up the fact that the NDP spent too much on ferries like 20 years ago and the Libs will roar back into government with another big majority.

(Somehow the fact that the BC Liberals have mismanaged millions on all sorts of other capital projects will never get any traction...)
Click to expand...

Exactly. Both sides of government in BC are practically idiots, and I'm surprised that Christy Clark has held on for so long, especially considering that her pretty big controversies like the ethnic votes scandal. But when the NDP gifts you victories time and time again...
 
S

SRG01

Member
Silver Arrows said:
Exactly. Both sides of government in BC are practically idiots, and I'm surprised that Christy Clark has held on for so long, especially considering that her pretty big controversies like the ethnic votes scandal. But when the NDP gifts you victories time and time again...
Click to expand...

This is also the case in Ontario too. It seems like the only sane NDP party in the country is the Alberta NDP, who are essentially the federal Liberals in terms of policy.
 
K

killer rin

Member
SRG01 said:
This is also the case in Ontario too. It seems like the only sane NDP party in the country is the Alberta NDP, who are essentially the federal Liberals in terms of policy.
Click to expand...

Provincial Politics is all sorts of fucked, honestly. Their Incompentence is even worse considering how much is in their hands
 
M

mdubs

Banned
SRG01 said:
This is also the case in Ontario too. It seems like the only sane NDP party in the country is the Alberta NDP, who are essentially the federal Liberals in terms of policy.
Click to expand...

I wonder who will manage to not lose the next Ontario provincial election. All three parties will be trying their hardest not to win I'm sure
 
G

gabbo

Member
mdubs said:
I wonder who will manage to not lose the next Ontario provincial election. All three parties will be trying their hardest not to win I'm sure
Click to expand...

Patrick Brown has released any white papers, so he has to up his 'Lose' game significantly
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
killer rin said:
Have you seen what made the media from what he couldn't reign in? His party is going full retard for him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Patrick Brown is doing a good job of presenting himself as a very reasonable alternative, but his party is going to ruin his efforts.

But at this point the Ontario Liberals really need to be taken out of office. I largely agree with their ideology too, but they're just not doing a good job governing. A lot of incompetence, if not straight up corruption. Scary as the social conservatives are, I don't think they could ever actually do anything to make us regress (stall progress for sure though), and the Ontario Liberals really need a time out for some self-reflection.

One comforting thing is that Patrick Brown does support a carbon tax. And I can't find specific details on what exactly his plan would be, but certainly I'm not a fan of the cap-and-trade scheme the liberals are putting forward. The cap-and-trade scheme involves the government sitting around and deciding who gets carbon credits and how many and there's far too much opportunity for politicization and corruption there. An ideal scheme would set an equal price on carbon regardless of how or who produced it. If this causes prices to rise for poor people trying to heat there homes than fine, we can deal with that at the endpoint and give the poor help instead of giving energy companies favorable treatment (as an example of how cap-and-trade could be politicized).
 
A

Apathy

Member
Mr.Mike said:
Yeah, Patrick Brown is doing a good job of presenting himself as a very reasonable alternative, but his party is going to ruin his efforts.

But at this point the Ontario Liberals really need to be taken out of office. I largely agree with their ideology too, but they're just not doing a good job governing. A lot of incompetence, if not straight up corruption. Scary as the social conservatives are, I don't think they could ever actually do anything to make us regress (stall progress for sure though), and the Ontario Liberals really need a time out for some self-reflection.

One comforting thing is that Patrick Brown does support a carbon tax. And I can't find specific details on what exactly his plan would be, but certainly I'm not a fan of the cap-and-trade scheme the liberals are putting forward. The cap-and-trade scheme involves the government sitting around and deciding who gets carbon credits and how many and there's far too much opportunity for politicization and corruption there. An ideal scheme would set an equal price on carbon regardless of how or who produced it. If this causes prices to rise for poor people trying to heat there homes than fine, we can deal with that at the endpoint and give the poor help instead of giving energy companies favorable treatment (as an example of how cap-and-trade could be politicized).
Click to expand...

Heeeeeeeeelllllll no. There is no way I would ever take the cons in Ontario. I would rather the libs be in power and be corrupt than live through another conservative lead Ontario. Brown says whatever he he thinks will get him elected. He plays both sides of the field hoping to get support. There is no way, if you had anything to lose, that you'd be so fine with letting social conservatives get into power. Let alone the fact that last time we had conservatives in power in Ontario we lost the 407 for 99 years.
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
Apathy said:
Heeeeeeeeelllllll no. There is no way I would ever take the cons in Ontario. I would rather the libs be in power and be corrupt than live through another conservative lead Ontario. Brown says whatever he he thinks will get him elected. He plays both sides of the field hoping to get support. There is no way, if you had anything to lose, that you'd be so fine with letting social conservatives get into power. Let alone the fact that last time we had conservatives in power in Ontario we lost the 407 for 99 years.
Click to expand...

Corruption is a real issue that will grow if left unchecked and does affect people in a real way. Extractive institutions can and do hurt the vulnerable, even if the party creating them is socially progressive in certain ways.
 
G

gabbo

Member
So, broadband is now a basic service.
I wonder if my parents will live long enough to see highspeed that isn't wireless (satellite internet is not broadband) reach their place.
They live in an area maybe 5 kilometers too far down a road for the current limits of local cable and DSL from two separate towns (between Delhi and Simcoe Ontario). They could walk that distance, but no ISP will touch the ancient phone lines. Hopefully this pushes to happen.

CazTGG said:
In today's "O'Leary/Leitch Say Something Stupid" news: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...n-peacekeeping
Click to expand...
While I agree peacekeeping did seem to get shit on by the previous government; which was at least underpinning O'Leary's argument, and it should be looked upon as noble and brave, going after actual war vets.... that's doesn't help make that point
 
A

Azzanadra

Member
Too late for O'Leary to enter the contest, right?

Either way, the person I am most scared of is Leitch. I didn't really pay attention to her much beyond the "Canadian values" thing, but her praise of Donald Trump makes me think she will go all-in to attempt to be the face of the alt-right in Canada.
 
G

gabbo

Member
Azzanadra said:
Too late for O'Leary to enter the contest, right?

Either way, the person I am most scared of is Leitch. I didn't really pay attention to her much beyond the "Canadian values" thing, but her praise of Donald Trump makes me think she will go all-in to attempt to be the face of the alt-right in Canada.
Click to expand...

She's courting the same crowd, but hopefully won't last. Not if they learned anything from the last election.
 
C

CazTGG

Member
Azzanadra said:
Too late for O'Leary to enter the contest, right?

Either way, the person I am most scared of is Leitch. I didn't really pay attention to her much beyond the "Canadian values" thing, but her praise of Donald Trump makes me think she will go all-in to attempt to be the face of the alt-right in Canada.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he's still able to run, although it would be hilarious if he waited too long to enter into the leadership after teasing it for so long. Also: A little off-topic/pluggy but i'm working on a video about Leitch and why she's absolutely awful and, more alarmingly, why she could possibly win. This might be anecdotal and I will admit that it's largely an expansion of ideas i've previously mentioned in this thread but i've seen a fair amount of people going "oh this could never happen in Canada also who's this Rob Ford guy i'd like to have a beer with him he seems like he's in touch with the common everyday guy" and I need to voice how dangerous this mindset is, to assume that we're somehow better than the United States simply on the basis of being on the other side of the border. I don't want to spoil the entire video so i'll leave it at this: When people were telling me that Trump had a 10% chance of winning, I told them to take that 10% seriously. Polls might be giving different answers but the fact that some, limited as they may be in sample sizes, suggest she's the frontrunner means she has a shot of winning the leadership.

gabbo said:
She's courting the same crowd, but hopefully won't last. Not if they learned anything from the last election.
Click to expand...

chronobreak.jpg
 
C

CazTGG

Member
killer rin said:
Calling it, the Government is planning to burn the Electoral Reform debate for the next couple decades by proposing something everyone is against and then coming out and saying "Well, we tried; you didn't want it"
Click to expand...

I think the way they handled the survey was sound enough evidence of that, now they'll be putting the blame on the voters for not wanting it bad enough and seeming blameless when they can the discussion on electoral reform.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
CazTGG said:
I think the way they handled the survey was sound enough evidence of that, now they'll be putting the blame on the voters for not wanting it bad enough and seeming blameless when they can the discussion on electoral reform.
Click to expand...
Ah, delicious Liberal governance.
 
E

elvisaintdead

Member
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/12/31/oleary-open-letter-to-premier-rachel-notley

O'Leary setting himself up to look like a genius when the Alberta economy continues to struggle, carbon tax or no carbon tax. The tax will get the blame from most people who live here in Alberta, that's for sure. The thing that they don't understand is that the Alberta economy can recover, but it won't ever return to the high point it was once at thanks to the oilsands. Extracting and moving oil from Alberta is so resource and time intensive that it was never a long-term sustainable thing to base a large-scale economy off of. We just happened to live through a relatively short time period where it was extremely profitable.

Can't help but roll my eyes at lines like this:

It was only a few years ago that Alberta was the envy of North America. We must make Alberta the most attractive domain on earth to invest the incremental energy dollar for any investor anywhere.
Click to expand...

If O'Leary ever finds himself in office along with some sort of Conservative Premier in Alberta having repealed the carbon tax, they'll have some explaining to do about why the Alberta economy is still not returning to it's former glory of being the "envy of North America." Depends how well they would be able to mix facts and lies in the new Trump style, I guess.
 
S

Simon Belmont

Banned
killer rin said:
Calling it, the Government is planning to burn the Electoral Reform debate for the next couple decades by proposing something everyone is against and then coming out and saying "Well, we tried; you didn't want it"
Click to expand...

Is there any reason to suspect electoral reform is something the majority of Canadians want? Has there been any actual polling about the desirability of electoral reform?
 
G

gabbo

Member
Simon Belmont said:
Is there any reason to suspect electoral reform is something the majority of Canadians want? Has there been any actual polling about the desirability of electoral reform?
Click to expand...

I think it's along the lines of people either don't care or say they want it but have no idea what it actually means and entails long term
 
Z

Zips

Member
Trudeau will cement himself as a hollow liar if he kills the electoral reform or pushes one that just favours his party and makes things worse.

So far he hasn't impressed me much beyond public support of positive ideals.
 
G

gabbo

Member
I feel like she's but one step away from doing 3 and 4 from her list if she had the guts. Like those two are really groups the cons play to.
 
C

CazTGG

Member
SheepyGuy said:
http://www.stopkevinoleary.com/

This is her shot at him? "He supports a carbon tax"

Seriously?

Come the fuck on.
Click to expand...

Given how Trost was applauded for denying the effects of climate change while Chong was, if i'm remembering correctly, booed for supporting an increase in the carbon tax, that's apparently a smart move for a Con candidate to say. Mind, i'd go with the "he's an awful businessman" as a starting point instead of going with a point that's rather hypocritial of Raitt considering her work as Labour Minister and hire someone to redesign that website, it is simply hideous. I made a webpage that looked more aesthetically when I was in high school!
 
H

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Zips said:
Trudeau will cement himself as a hollow liar if he kills the electoral reform or pushes one that just favours his party and makes things worse.

So far he hasn't impressed me much beyond public support of positive ideals.
Click to expand...
Why the fuck is he slipping up? It's seriously pissing me off. This knob head knows exactly what people asking for electoral reform want, but he's tap dancing around it like we're idiots. Just fucking give us proportional representation for Christ sake.

I get it, the current system helps the Libs win when people have an "anyone but the PC" attitude going into an election. But it also results in PC governments when voter apathy similar to the US 2016 election happens, or when the left vote is split. Stop condemning the majority of this country to PC governments simply because the current system sometimes helps you. Bigger picture Trudeau, start seeing it.
 
F

fin

Member
So what's the ETA for legal marijuana? All this talk about carbon tax...we could be using the weed tax to build solar panels or something by now.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Azzanadra said:
Too late for O'Leary to enter the contest, right?
Click to expand...

He has until late February to enter the race, but even jumping in now means he'd be facing a pretty strong headwind. Everyone else has been signing up members and fundraising for months. I know he has name recognition, but that only gets you so far in a closed system like this, where people have to pay $15 to vote -- and most of the people who've paid did so in support of other candidates.

On top of that, the preferential ballot they're using rewards non-divisive candidates. You win by being the second or third choice of CPC members, since no one is getting 50%+1 of the votes on the first ballot of a campaign where there's no frontrunner. Someone like O'Leary -- and like Leitch, and like Bernier -- will have a harder time winning than someone dull like Scheer or Raitt.

fin said:
So what's the ETA for legal marijuana? All this talk about carbon tax...we could be using the weed tax to build solar panels or something by now.
Click to expand...

The legislation is due this spring. They've released some info about the process already, including the task force report.

The profits from the "weed tax" won't be that much, though, at least not at first. From the Parliamentary Budget Office:

At the outset of legalization, fiscal revenues from regular retail sales taxes (HST/GST/PST) are expected to be modest – in the hundreds of millions of dollars, rather than the billions of dollars. About 60 per cent of sales tax revenues will accrue to provincial governments, and the remaining 40 per cent to the federal government.
Click to expand...

In other words, they need to keep the price low to be competitive with the illicit market, which means it won't be solving any budget deficits any time soon.
 
K

killer rin

Member
Simon Belmont said:
Is there any reason to suspect electoral reform is something the majority of Canadians want? Has there been any actual polling about the desirability of electoral reform?
Click to expand...

You have to read between the lines for it. People are always complaining about how the government doesn't have their best interests in mind, or how they aren't feeling represented by their MP, or during election periods how their votes don't matter.

So the political will for change is definitely there, the problem comes from the fact that public is apathetic that anything can change, or just generally being unknowedgable that there are
solutions out there. The problem being made worse since whenever the topic comes up, someone is always trying to derail the thing by saying things like "why are we bothering with this when we have much better things to focus on" or how "so and so is trying to kill democracy"
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
matthewwhatever said:
The profits from the "weed tax" won't be that much, though, at least not at first. From the Parliamentary Budget Office:



In other words, they need to keep the price low to be competitive with the illicit market, which means it won't be solving any budget deficits any time soon.
Click to expand...

People have some really unrealistic expectations about how significant pot legalization revenues would actually be to begin with. Even *were* they in the billions of dollars, it'd still be a pretty small difference on the ledger. We can't save the world by taxing pot users.

killer rin said:
You have to read between the lines for it. People are always complaining about how the government doesn't have their best interests in mind, or how they aren't feeling represented by their MP, or during election periods how their votes don't matter.

So the political will for change is definitely there, the problem comes from the fact that public is apathetic that anything can change, or just generally being unknowedgable that there are
solutions out there. The problem being made worse since whenever the topic comes up, someone is always trying to derail the thing by saying things like "why are we bothering with this when we have much better things to focus on" or how "so and so is trying to kill democracy"
Click to expand...

All of this.
 
S

SRG01

Member
killer rin said:
You have to read between the lines for it. People are always complaining about how the government doesn't have their best interests in mind, or how they aren't feeling represented by their MP, or during election periods how their votes don't matter.

So the political will for change is definitely there, the problem comes from the fact that public is apathetic that anything can change, or just generally being unknowedgable that there are
solutions out there. The problem being made worse since whenever the topic comes up, someone is always trying to derail the thing by saying things like "why are we bothering with this when we have much better things to focus on" or how "so and so is trying to kill democracy"
Click to expand...

The problem with democracy is that people are apathetic towards governance. One could argue that constant and perpetual participation could be a bad thing, but I generally feel the opposite, that increased indirect participation -- either by civilian committees or civil servants or other leadership roles -- would improve things significantly.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Zips said:
Trudeau will cement himself as a hollow liar if he kills the electoral reform or pushes one that just favours his party and makes things worse.

So far he hasn't impressed me much beyond public support of positive ideals.
Click to expand...

nobody will care

the general population is unware of other voting system, the general popualtion don't know about the German voting system, the French voting system or the Australian voting system


there is a reason why the Conservatives WANT a Referendum during the Liberls' watch:
because the Cons know that the Referendum will FAIL and then pin the failure on Trudeau.
-------------

and about O'Leary, he is doing on purpose to delay his entry to avoid the French language debate. Oh, all of the sudden he is in the running.... after the debate LOL.
And also he is waiting for the field to thin out
-----

2017 will be the year of pot. Lets hope it becomes real, I need a legal joint right now that has no added crap in it
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
Is electoral reform that big a deal for most people? The Liberal government had a pretty broad platform and electoral reform was only one point. I'm not sure if it was a major issue for a majority of voters.
 
C

CazTGG

Member
gutter_trash said:
nobody will care

the general population is unware of other voting system, the general popualtion don't know about the German voting system, the French voting system or the Australian voting system


there is a reason why the Conservatives WANT a Referendum during the Liberls' watch:
because the Cons know that the Referendum will FAIL and then pin the failure on Trudeau.
-------------

and about O'Leary, he is doing on purpose to delay his entry to avoid the French language debate. Oh, all of the sudden he is in the running.... after the debate LOL.
And also he is waiting for the field to thin out
-----

2017 will be the year of pot. Lets hope it becomes real, I need a legal joint right now that has no added crap in it
Click to expand...

How thin exactly are we expecting it to be? Counting O'Leary, we've already got 14 people in the running with only one of them showing any signs of any dropping out (the name eludes me at the moment but I believe they only got two donations during the last quarter compared to Leitch, Chong and Bernier's more sizable fundraising efforts over that same period according to Elections Canada).

Dr.Acula said:
Is electoral reform that big a deal for most people? The Liberal government had a pretty broad platform and electoral reform was only one point. I'm not sure if it was a major issue for a majority of voters.
Click to expand...

Speaking only for myself, it's going to be a big blow against the LPC during the next election if they decide to pull out or, even worse, leave it up to a referendum and kill the discussion for who knows how many decades. The current system we have (FPTP) is not ideal in terms of representation and the fact that they're backing away simply because [presumably, the reason is that] they benefited from the current system during the last election when they said this would be the last election to use the FPTP system and were advised to go with MMP instead feels particularly insulting. They should push it through in time for people to be educated on the new voting system for the next election and quit dragging it out.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Dr.Acula said:
Is electoral reform that big a deal for most people? The Liberal government had a pretty broad platform and electoral reform was only one point. I'm not sure if it was a major issue for a majority of voters.
Click to expand...

It's important to many NDP switchers who put them in office.
 
S

Simon Belmont

Banned
Dr.Acula said:
Is electoral reform that big a deal for most people? The Liberal government had a pretty broad platform and electoral reform was only one point. I'm not sure if it was a major issue for a majority of voters.
Click to expand...

The best I was able to find is that there is nebulous support for 'reform' but there is no consensus on what people think that should mean. People are (as of September) way more upset about the Senate than Electoral Reform.
 
L

lupinko

Member
Apparently Ontario is trying to do a Nanjing day? Like that was horrible but dedicating a day to it is also pretty bad for many reasons.

It's like Harper's victims of communism museum idea.
 
B

Buba Big Guns

Banned
lupinko said:
Apparently Ontario is trying to do a Nanjing day? Like that was horrible but dedicating a day to it is also pretty bad for many reasons.

It's like Harper's victims of communism museum idea.
Click to expand...

Why is dedicating a day to it bad?

That communism museum plan was really dumb though.
 
G

gabbo

Member
lupinko said:
Apparently Ontario is trying to do a Nanjing day? Like that was horrible but dedicating a day to it is also pretty bad for many reasons.

It's like Harper's victims of communism museum idea.
Click to expand...

Of all the issues with the current Ontario government, this is something you have a problem with? It's at best a token gesture to the Chinese community and no where near the level of the stupid monuments Harper wanted to blight the landscape with.

unless we all missed sarcasm..
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Yikes, refugees walking to the Manitoba/ND border in deep snow / -18C temperatures

Kuzia said the man told him he and the 34-year-old left Minneapolis in Minnesota for Canada after their visas ran out.

He said they took a bus from Minneapolis to Grand Forks, N.D., and then a taxi to somewhere near the Emerson border.

There, the men walked through farmers' fields filled with deep snow before making it to the side of Highway 75 where they begged for hours for help, he said.
Click to expand...

Newcomer advocates who spoke to CBC on Thursday say they're seeing an increase in refugee claimants coming to the Manitoba border for help.

"Just in November alone we had 31 claimants," said Rita Chahal, the executive director of the Manitoba Interfaith Immigration Council.

Chahal said there's a network in Minneapolis of refugee claimants who are fleeing the United States.

They are primarily from Somalia and Ghana, she said.

"They obviously have fear [for] their lives and that's why they're asking us in Canada to help them with the protection."
Click to expand...

Feel like this is only going to get worse. :(
 
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