kitschykitty
Member
back and to the left, back and to the left.
Grabbing Brown is probably inappropriate but after watching that video it's so clear elbowing Brosseau was a complete accident. Some real choice quotes in that article too
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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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back and to the left, back and to the left.
Grabbing Brown is probably inappropriate but after watching that video it's so clear elbowing Brosseau was a complete accident. Some real choice quotes in that article too
gutter_trash
Banned
some Academy Award winning diving there trying to get the refs attention
Angry Tom yelling, overacting trying to convince the refs to award his team a PowerPlay
Angry Tom yelling, overacting trying to convince the refs to award his team a PowerPlay
gutter_trash
Banned
matthewwhatever
Member
So much for the distance between the Government and Opposition benches being two sword lengths. Did no one think of what happened if MPs came to swordless fisticuffs?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
What is going on before he walks over and grabs Brown?
kitschykitty
Member
JUSTIN'S COMING FOR YOU
matthewwhatever
Member
Liberals introduced a motion that would severely restrict voting. CPC and NDP MPs try blocking people from taking their seats and being allowed to vote.
Basically, everyone was acting pretty inappropriately.
You caught me. Me saying that everyone is acting inappropriately, blaming all sides, is a clear example of...bias? Can't argue with that reasoning.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
It's threadworthy. Most people don't check this thread.
What? Nobody's saying that grabbing Brown was a good thing?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
If we want to go back to the electoral reform stuff, it's a pretty good point that the Liberals have done very well with the current system and wouldn't have a lot of incentives to change to either PR or preferential.
If they were being straight up evil, they could make a rule that the motion that passes the committee needs unanimous approval from all members, concede to the Conservatives on a referendum & NDP on PR, let it happen, "try" to push for PR, lose the referendum (cause... of course), and go on winning 4/5 elections until the end of time. Then they could say they tried their best but the opposition was to blame.
If they were being straight up evil, they could make a rule that the motion that passes the committee needs unanimous approval from all members, concede to the Conservatives on a referendum & NDP on PR, let it happen, "try" to push for PR, lose the referendum (cause... of course), and go on winning 4/5 elections until the end of time. Then they could say they tried their best but the opposition was to blame.
excelsiorlef
Member
Why is it going to take a fucking year to replace Mulcair?
Jesus.
Jesus.
The liberals will benefit from preferential ballots. Not sure why you think they wouldn't. The asymmetry between ndp and liberal voter's second choices makes the liberals gain more.
Generally the more moderate parties have more to gain from that kind of system.
So I fully expect that to be what the committee chooses.
The PM crossing the aisle to touch an opposition member strikes me as a pretty significant breach, considerably more so than dilly dallying on a motion to end debate. But that's just me perhaps.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Mostly because if you change the rules of the game you'll inevitably change the strategy of all the players. For example in the last election the Conservatives tried to win by appealing to a narrow slice of voters and hoping they would be fired up enough to just get a higher % of people to show up at the polls. If there were preferential ballots that wouldn't be a good strategy and they would never have tried it, which is why they perform very poorly in projections of last years results against polling for rankings around that time.
If they change the rules such that you rank parties by preference, all 3 are going to hug the "middle" and try to be at worst everyone's #2 choice. The Liberal advantage of being in the center would eventually disappear.
matthewwhatever
Member
And the opposition trying to block MPs from coming in to vote is also a pretty significant breach. It's not often that "both sides" is an appropriate response, but...yeah, in this case, it totally is. Like May said, everyone (except her) comes out of this looking diminished.
The problem is, Mulcair has effectively drawn attention away from Trudeau invading Brown's personal space to forcibly move him and pulled attention over to his impotent rage at an MP being bumped into. Like if he didn't shit his pants we'd be more focused on Trudeau's ridiculous move.
gutter_trash
Banned
because Mulcair wants to wait it out until he turns 65 years old 2019 to collect his pension
Mulcair is such a blowhard and a drame queen.
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edit
I watched the CPAC video 10 times
Mulcair is the instigador and the trouble maker . Look at him blocking the way with his ass.
Then he goes from all smiley smiley to raging angry Tom.
Can't wait to see this bum retire
That's basically it. The goofy theatrics distracts from Trudeau's inappropriate behaviour and his interaction with Brown.
Bravo, Mulcair & Co.
gutter_trash
Banned
on further analysis , keep your eye on Ruth-Ellen the whole time.
Look at her and Mulcair trying to block Brown by weight shifting.
Look at Ruth-Ellen sticking her hips out to block the way
Look at her and Mulcair trying to block Brown by weight shifting.
Look at Ruth-Ellen sticking her hips out to block the way
I mean, obviously any change is going to alter strategy eventually and a lot of things will change, but that's just speculative. In the near term aftermath the Liberals will benefit the most.
Now if we're going to speculate, it seems more likely to me that third parties that try to hug the centre in this kind of system will just die as they won't bring any value. Hell, arguably we just saw this happen in 2015. Like, look at how enduring the two-party-ish system in Australia's House has been with IRV since the early 20th century, while their upper house is much more diverse.
At best the NDP could hope to be a semi-permanent junior member of a left-ish coalition with the Liberals.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
on further analysis , keep your eye on Ruth-Ellen the whole time.
Look at her and Mulcair trying to block Brown by weight shifting.
Look at Ruth-Ellen sticking her hips out to block the way
You don't have to look at her, look at the guy right in front of the "oh no I'm stuck" guy. He is deliberately blocking the way multiple times.
Anyway what a bunch of buffoons. Trudeau should just throw tennis balls at them the next time. Get these stupid ass traditions out the window.
Trudeau did nothing wrong at all. He did good actually.
He absolutely did. I'll accept equivocation as reasonable (though I disagree), but no the first minister should never personally go to the opposition bench to lay hands on an opposition member. That's clearly unacceptable.
It's the Speaker's job to maintain order in the house and if a member is acting inappropriately that's who the complaint should be directed at. Do you think this is the first time an MP has stalled a vote? Would you be so kind if it had been Harper doing it? There are procedures for this sort of thing, and they are largely designed around preventing exactly this sort of personal confrontation, especially from the person vested with the powers of government.
And everything that happened happened because he did it. Even if he hadn't accidentally elbowed Brosseau, it still would have turned the house into a circus because it was a completely inappropriate action right from the beginning. And it was all in the name of trying to push a bill through as fast as possible.
dragonfart28
Banned
Regardless of what the House procedure is, it's clear that Trudeau had good intentions on this.
Despite the fact that he was arguably a catalyst, most people watching this will likely empathize with his intention.
Despite the fact that he was arguably a catalyst, most people watching this will likely empathize with his intention.
gutter_trash
Banned
the Supreme Court set a deadline for the euthanasia bill.
Tories want to play the clock. Delay it until it expires.
NDPers beign cry babies because the PM wanted to limit debate time to get thing done, the orange tards start a kabuki theater of blockign the path of the Conservative Whip to delay the game.
Both Conservatives and the NDP are both being obstructionists.
I applaud Justin Treasure for wanting to get things done.
Tories want to play the clock. Delay it until it expires.
NDPers beign cry babies because the PM wanted to limit debate time to get thing done, the orange tards start a kabuki theater of blockign the path of the Conservative Whip to delay the game.
Both Conservatives and the NDP are both being obstructionists.
I applaud Justin Treasure for wanting to get things done.
I applaud his wanting to get things done, but not his methods in this instance.
He shouldn't be applauded for this. While I certainly sympathize with his frustration, he really should not have tried to intervene like he did.Trudeau himself feels the same way seeing as he has publicly apologized (I have no reason to believe he is being insincere).
gutter_trash
Banned
as a fan of Shawanigan Handshake, I'm sticking by Justin on this one 100%
QP is surprisingly tame.
But at this rate, Maryam Monsef won't last the year. They're all gunning for her and she has no choice but giving idiotic answers after idiotic answers. I think the Libs should just say fuck it and promise a referendum. They benefit from FPTP just as much as the Cons so when it fails, they can just blame them with their fear mongering and get another majority in 2019.
But at this rate, Maryam Monsef won't last the year. They're all gunning for her and she has no choice but giving idiotic answers after idiotic answers. I think the Libs should just say fuck it and promise a referendum. They benefit from FPTP just as much as the Cons so when it fails, they can just blame them with their fear mongering and get another majority in 2019.
Update on my project, because of many delays due to technical problems, I wasn't able to submit it in time for the summit this weekend.
I did finish it but it was too late, but I did send it to both federal governments who were still very interested in it.
I learned a lot from this experience with regards to networking on a higher level, in this case with various levels of government from two different countries.
I did finish it but it was too late, but I did send it to both federal governments who were still very interested in it.
I learned a lot from this experience with regards to networking on a higher level, in this case with various levels of government from two different countries.
I'm not sure if we're watching the same QP here. Her answers are standard-fare QP responses and the opposition knows they can't do anything.
The Liberals are still riding high on political capital and the opposition wants to waste their energy now? I get that both the CPC and NDP want to not seem ineffectual in the leaderless-interim period but they really have to play the long game here. They need to get through this sitting, get back to their constituents, and really have some self-reflection as to how to shore up support in the next five years.
gutter_trash
Banned
http://globalnews.ca/video/2711093/...ccidental-calls-on-parties-to-be-more-mature/
Elizabeth May calling it how she saw it, plus her opinion on the kerfuffle
Elizabeth May calling it how she saw it, plus her opinion on the kerfuffle
She's been all over it seems (saw her talk during P&P yesterday on CBC), giving the run down as she saw it. At least i'm not alone in thinking Brosseau's reaction was a bit overblown/not as bad as she and others made it out to be (Niki Ashton and Michelle Rempel for instance), and the House needs to grow up and get its shit in order.
killer rin
Member
Oh, my god. It's like three days in and I am fucking tired of hearing about the news talk about the Trudeau "elbow-gate" incident
Silent Chief
Member
A naive error from the Prime Minister while the opposition parties seems concerned only with politics and not with public service.
I didn't recognize Brosseau as the anglophone barmaid from Ottawa who won a seat in a French Quebec riding while campaigning from LasVegas. By the next election she'll have earned her full pension.
The whole legal angle is repugnant. If this is an assault, I've witnessed dozens everyday I've commuted by bus in Ottawa. This is supposed to be the house of the common folks.
I didn't recognize Brosseau as the anglophone barmaid from Ottawa who won a seat in a French Quebec riding while campaigning from LasVegas. By the next election she'll have earned her full pension.
The whole legal angle is repugnant. If this is an assault, I've witnessed dozens everyday I've commuted by bus in Ottawa. This is supposed to be the house of the common folks.
This "people elbow each other on the bus all the time" comparison is gross. Parliament isn't a bus, and people running around grabbing other people is not appropriate. It's really frustrating that it gets framed this way, because Trudeau was *responsible* for elbowing her even if that wasn't his intent. He was responsible because he dived into a crowd of people and shoved them around. And he rightly apologized for doing so, because it was wrong. People lauding him over it is just stupid.
Also, now we're back to smearing Brosseau after she worked really hard to win her constituents' trust and was one of the ones who survived the NDP collapse because of it. Great.
I was a big supporter of Brosseau, but even I lost a lot of respect for her both after the election (ie. her steadfast support for Mulcair instead of honest reflection) and during this whole Elbowgate issue.
Both opposition parties wasted a lot of political capital in an attempt to make this an issue, which has frankly gotten nowhere. Mistakes were made, yes. Apologies were made. Move on and debate the bills. Political grandstanding and procedural delays are not a good look for any party.
Ironically, they need to look back to Mulcair's performance during Harper's majority to see how an effective opposition is carried. Parliament may have less time devoted to them since they're now third in the house, but that doesn't mean they can't be effective.
And parties wonder why no one watches QP. The behavior in the House is worse than petulant children.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Oh please. Yes, Trudeau apologized. Because when you bump in someone on the bus you also apologize unless you're a complete twat. We're mocking Brosseau and Mulcair and others because they've blown it all completely out of proportions, called Trudeau a fake feminist for "hitting a woman", and so on, basically made it political when it was just a minor accident that merited an apology and moving on.
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