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[Sadist]

Of course they disappeared. There isn't millions of potential buyers just magically waiting there for a so-called "real" Resident Evil for the last 3 years. They've moved on or were always just one time buyers.

Hmmm... fair enough.

Still, I'd like a new one

 

[Grampa Simpson]

If Nintendo are desperate for third-party support in "core" genres now, I think they need to look at cutting and running on the Wii - an early launch for a Wii successor, with a major outreach to third parties in terms of hardware support and publishing. Otherwise, they're going to have to muddle on through to 2011 or so basically on their own - a repeat of the GameCube, except with the remarkable distinction of being essentially the generation "winner" in all other respects.

And the thing is, that Nintendo doesn't need strong 3rd party support right now. They've got profitable hit on their hands this generation without them. They'll be looking to do a generational transition in 2012 or later, and when they do, it will be timed to coincide with the competition's transition.

I'm convinced that Nintendo will only transition to a new full generation when they feel they need to in order to show that they have something new and shiny.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Why would Nintendo cut and run when the Wii is selling like crazy??

I don't think they will, but if they want to get anywhere near the support in those areas that the other systems do anytime soon, then I think they need to make a drastic move like that. Even if they managed to get a major exclusive or two in the next year, it isn't going to make a real difference to the general "core" market on the system now.

I think their best bet is to wait it out for a couple of years, make out like bandits on the Wii and work with third parties for the release of Wii 2 to ensure a stronger first couple of years.

 

[Y2Kev]

Ok, its time for my monthly post on this topic:

This whole discussion is stupid and pointless because THIRD PARTIES WERE NEVER GOING TO GIVE THE WII THEIR BEST EFFORTS. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

The only examples you have of the top teams working on the Wii is in Japan where the HD twins don't have nearly the sales power they do in the West.

Capcom is a perfect example- RE4 sold much much better than Umbrella Chronicles and what Wii owners got was another lightgun game because it was infinitely cheaper to make.

Monster Hunter 3 is the exception but I am pretty sure Nintendo helped pay for that one.

what about wii 2?

 

[Souldriver]

Normal situation: developers make lots of games and hope that one is of enough quality so the public buys it and they've got a hit on their hands.

Wii situation: consumers have to buy lots of games and hope that developers are happy enough with the sales so they'd make a high quality game.

Welcome to opposite land. Right now all the goodwill and patience comes from consumers, not the developers. It should be the other way around. Developers should be thankful that people buy games instead of the people being thankful that developers make games. The former creates a situation where there's a tendency towards high quality games, the latter a tendency towards shovelware.


It's also completely foreign to me that such drastic decisions are being made when we're talking about a cheap, unadvertised, niche Wii game selling poor. There wasn't lots of effort and money poured into these projects anyway, why the drastic decision to cut support for the Wii altogether? It's counterintuitive and wasting potential. If anything, you'd think that if a very expensive, high profile, highly advertised game for the HD consoles fails and the company loses lots of money, they'd rethink their strategy on that. But that doesn't happen either.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Give them some time. It's Capcom. They port everything. They already announced MC patch for RE5, give them some time and they will port both lightgun RE, Zack & Wiki and Tatsunoko.


Being most likely the best 3rd party in both NGC and Wii means to hate Nintendo?

They don't hate Nintendo. They hate to release good games and don't sell a shit. So they switch to other markets where people buy their games. They continued supporting Nintendo even they had poor sales (happened in NGC and Wii).

Bollocks, the only support that the GCN got were cheap ports from skeleton dev teams (POP Sands of Time was ported by a single guy FFS!) and the games that Nintendo moneyhatted (Capcom 5, Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes, Starfox Assault, DDR Mario Mix etc)

And we all know how those money hatted games turned out, they were either halfassed and sucked or they were ported to other consoles (Hell, pretty much the entirety of Capcom Production Studio 4 left after Mikami was outraged over seeing RE4 get ported to the PS2 against his personal wishes!)

And the Wii has gotten absolutely nothing of note from any major 3rd party dev with the sole exception of Monster Hunter 3 (Which Nintendo pretty much funded in its entirety and helped out in development IIRC!)

So yeah, Nintendo have gotten jack shit in terms of support ever since the SNES. Hell even the DS is treated as a dumping ground for shovelware by major western 3rd parties, while the PSP gets more support than even the Wii! If that doesn't make the slant obvious I don't know what would!

 

[hatchx]

french director says...

okay thats where i stopped reading..

Yeah seriously. I'd be very surprised if the game didn't sell over 100k in the US by the end of december. It's actually a pretty good game, and the cheese factor is absolutely hysterical. My brother and were playing DS:E too and agree RESC is the more fun, quick-to-play game of the two.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Spoiler

this picture works on several levels here

 

[hatchx]

Bollocks, the only support that the GCN got were cheap ports from skeleton dev teams (POP Sands of Time was ported by a single guy FFS!) and the games that Nintendo moneyhatted (Capcom 5, Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes, Starfox Assault, DDR Mario Mix etc)

I miss when Nintendo use to monehat.

 

[Ponn]

capcom's doing the right thing. the wii is a different market entirely, these days. hardcore games still sell in rough proportion as to what they have in the past, split across the 360/ps3 fanbases. the blue ocean doesn't buy these games, so better to ignore them and focus on their core strengths as a company -- after all, it's not an opportunity if your corporate culture and engineering processes aren't built to service a different market.

if you wanna make a successful wii game, focus on novelty, mini-games, and family gaming themes -- especially popular ones -- and put a high level of marketing and polish on it. the blue ocean set need YOU to grab their attention. ma and pa won't seek yer shit out if you don't sell it in the venues they favor, like family circle and daytime teevee. ignore the core gaming market altogether, get out of gamestop, and blitz blitz blitz the wal-mart set.

It's been funny the last two years slowly watching people realize the console was not made for them and all the stages of acceptance to go with it.

Spoiler

and i'm not talking about just gamers

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Why would Nintendo cut and run when the Wii is selling like crazy??

While Nintendo's casual market for the Wii expands into the heavens, their third party support and the general enthusiasm from third parties seems to be dwindling, i think it's definitely not a healthy situation for something that's supposed to be top in the industry - I think Nintendo need to involve third parties more because it's not a good relationship going into the next generation, where competitors will almost certainly launch at a cheaper price point to cut into that 'mainstream' Wii appeal.

 

[GeekyDad]

Mostly what you hear from third party execs, with respect to the Wii, is that they're not sure what the hell to do on the system; it's a mystery to them. That right there should be their first warning. If you're not sure a game's going to sell, chances are it won't. These are people in control of millions of dollars worth of investment money, and they don't have confidence their games are going to sell. Sounds like they need to invest further into R&D.

It's like Nintendo is the owner of a some swanky Las Vegas casino, the third parties are high-rolling gamblers, and we're all watching Rounders on DVD. Somebody better step up to the mic and MC this mofo.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Because its an absurdly popular brand right now. And even then it pales in comparison to the HD versions.

Just like the effort and advertising behind them.

While Nintendo's casual market for the Wii expands into the heavens, their third party support and the general enthusiasm from third parties seems to be dwindling, i think it's definitely not a healthy situation for something that's supposed to be top in the industry - I think Nintendo need to involve third parties more because it's not a good relationship going into the next generation, where competitors will almost certainly launch at a cheaper price point to cut into that 'mainstream' Wii appeal.

As much as I would like to say 3rd parties made their bed and now they have to lay in it, I do think Nintendo needs to step up with 3rd parties and essentially save them from themselves. I don't care so much about the 3rd parties but the industry is not terribly healthy (and no an industry that requires boom years and mega sales to eek out profits is not healthy).

Also, it'd be nice to have better games to play on my Wii.

 

[AniHawk]

Hmmm... fair enough.

Still, I'd like a new one

RE5 on the PS3 will have very similar controls. It may not be exactly what you want, but it's the closest you'll get.

 

[Kosma]

So who is still making mature games for the Wii now?

 

[Talamius]

I think Nintendo need to involve third parties more because it's not a good relationship going into the next generation, where competitors will almost certainly launch at a cheaper price point to cut into that 'mainstream' Wii appeal.

That begs the question: At this point, does Nintendo even need a significant 3rd party presence? The brand is big enough now that only the mega-releases like MW2 are even in the sales ballpark of the biggest Nintendo 1st party efforts.

 

[schuelma]

Overlord, Bayonetta, Valk. Chronicles, Trials HD, Braid, Civ. 4: Revolution, Ninja Gaiden 2, NG Sigma, I'd say are all pretty niche titles that sold decently. If decent = 5-10x as much as RE DSC on one console. Though NG2 was advertised pretty heavily on 360 at least.

Why do you keep treating the 16K number as if its from the U.S or something? Unless you have accurate France totals for all of the above games.

Not to mention your inclusion of Bayonetta makes about as much sense as your "NSMB Wii is going to sell about as bad as Galaxy in the U.S because of one weeks chart from the U.K" theory. Its been released in one territory, the one territory Darkside Chronicles has not been released on.

 

[le.phat]

Maybe if they could stop releasing "test" games, they would actually see success on the Wii.

RE fans wanted a new RE that was similar to RE4 Wii, not another damn onrail shooters. I thought that was kind of obvious, but noo.

i'm sure the RE fans on the HD twins would have bought alot more then 16k copies.

 

[Sadist]

RE5 on the PS3 will have very similar controls. It may not be exactly what you want, but it's the closest you'll get.

But then I will have to buy a PS3. I don't want to

 

[schuelma]

what about wii 2?

I think if Nintendo offers comparable graphics, some sort of storage solution and better online that 3rd parties will absolutely release their big games on the same day as the other systems successors.

 

[grandjedi6]

Hmmm... fair enough.

Still, I'd like a new one

eh, I've always felt that the hope for a new RE Wii game was just a misplaced hope for another Mikami developed RE. And since that's never going to happen, its silly to keep up hope for one since people probably wouldn't like whatever a RE Wii game without Mikami would end up being

Bollocks, the only support that the GCN got were cheap ports from skeleton dev teams (POP Sands of Time was ported by a single guy FFS!) and the games that Nintendo moneyhatted (Capcom 5, Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes, Starfox Assault, DDR Mario Mix etc)

And we all know how those money hatted games turned out, they were either halfassed and sucked or they were ported to other consoles (Hell, pretty much the entirety of Capcom Production Studio 4 left after Mikami was outraged over seeing RE4 get ported to the PS2 against his personal wishes!)

And the Wii has gotten absolutely nothing of note from any major 3rd party dev with the sole exception of Monster Hunter 3 (Which Nintendo pretty much funded in its entirety and helped out in development IIRC!)

So yeah, Nintendo have gotten jack shit in terms of support ever since the SNES. Hell even the DS is treated as a dumping ground for shovelware by major western 3rd parties, while the PSP gets more support than even the Wii! If that doesn't make the slant obvious I don't know what would!

Uh, you might want to fact check, uh, everything you just posted.

And the thing is, that Nintendo doesn't need strong 3rd party support right now. They've got profitable hit on their hands this generation without them. They'll be looking to do a generational transition in 2012 or later, and when they do, it will be timed to coincide with the competition's transition.

I'm convinced that Nintendo will only transition to a new full generation when they feel they need to in order to show that they have something new and shiny.

Of course Nintendo "needs" strong 3rd party support. If they didn't need it they wouldn't devote so much time to trying to get it. Its the achilles heel of their Wii juggernaut.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

i'm sure the RE fans on the HD twins would have bought alot more then 16k copies.

Right. But the mass market got fooled once, can't fool them twice.

If it was RE 4.5 it would have been a lot more successfull

 

[Green Biker Dude]

i remember 1-2 years ago when all the nintendo fans, especially in sales threads, were going on about how the wii would get all the third party support in the future. it was just that it had started selling well recently, with third parties not expecting that and games taking time to produce, so they were already being worked on but not announced. sometime in the future we'd hear about them though

if i ever have the patience to, i'll go through certain users' posting history and collect those quotes

 

[Frencherman]

....I think Nintendo need to involve third parties more because it's not a good relationship going into the next generation, where competitors will almost certainly launch at a cheaper price point to cut into that 'mainstream' Wii appeal.

Wrong dude, they should left all those bastards out for good and try to fill up all lacking and missing gaming genres by themself. If Nintendo should have learned one thing from this gen, than it's definetatly the fact that they can't rely on 3rd-Parties and they never will.

Just invest your money in more studios to handle the market yourself, Ninty!

 

[Jokeropia]

RE4 Wii has sold more than RE5 PS3. Just FYI.

If the title doesn't have "Mario" or "Zelda" somewhere in the title, it's not going to sell on the Wii.

Plain and simple.

Overlord, Bayonetta, Valk. Chronicles, Trials HD, Braid, Civ. 4: Revolution, Ninja Gaiden 2, NG Sigma, I'd say are all pretty niche titles that sold decently. If decent = 5-10x as much as RE DSC on one console. Though NG2 was advertised pretty heavily on 360 at least.

And lots of "pretty niche" titles have sold well on Wii too. Railshooters however haven't sold on the PS3/360.

 

[AniHawk]

So who is still making mature games for the Wii now?

High Voltage Software

 

[Error]

Madworld was going to bomb regardless of console, it's a concept that was simply not going to fly. A black and white game? yeah, no...

And Dead Rising port is a shit ass game that's clearly inferior to the original 360 release, more like a big troll from Capcom. What were they expecting?

 

[schuelma]

i remember 1-2 years ago when all the nintendo fans, especially in sales threads, were going on about how the wii would get all the third party support in the future. it was just that it had started selling well recently, with third parties not expecting that and games taking time to produce, so they were already being worked on but not announced. sometime in the future we'd hear about them though

if i ever have the patience to, i'll go through certain users' posting history and collect those quotes

It wasn't just Nintendo fans that thought that- most sales age people assumed that would happen. Clearly many many people were wrong.

 

[grandjedi6]

Just like the effort and advertising behind them.

Even if the Wii version of Call of Duty got the exact same level of effort and advertising it would never reach the absurd levels that MW2 has reached.

 

[Boombloxer]

Dead Space Extraction is a good game.

House of the Dead: Overkill is a good game.

Madworld is a good game.

None of them sold well.

Maybe these guys who with upper management positions for successful multi-million dollar companies like Capcom know what they're talking about a bit more than a bunch of fans on a message board?

Its not like this is some guy who works for a scrub 3rd party or indie developer. He works for Capcom, one of the most consistently successful 3rd parties in the world, and one that stepped into this new generation with both a desire to support the Wii and the best 360/PS3 cross platform model of anyone in the industry already in mind.

They generally seem to have a clue.

We have a winner.

Games can fail on any system.

Way to miss the point.

It's funny to hear people continue to try to come up with excuses as to why these games don't sell well on the Wii:

1) It' a spin off

2) It's a niche title

3) It didn't get the proper marketing

And many more. The fact is, all three of those types of games do FINE on the 360 and PS3. And the Wii has a userbase that is, what, quadruple those systems? If those types of games can sell well on the 360 and PS3, they should be able to sell on the Wii. None of those things are "reasons" why these games failed. As much as the 2,000 Wii fans on Gaf like to claim otherwise, they need to realize that they are the extreme minority.

It's been two years of the same argument, with evidence that the games don't sell as well as they should with respect to the userbase.

 

[Sadist]

eh, I've always felt that the hope for a new RE Wii game was just a misplaced hope for another Mikami developed RE. And since that's never going to happen, its silly to keep up hope for one since people probably wouldn't like whatever a RE Wii game without Mikami would end up being

You just made me feel better!

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

That begs the question: At this point, does Nintendo even need a significant 3rd party presence? The brand is big enough now that only the mega-releases like MW2 are even in the sales ballpark of the biggest Nintendo 1st party efforts.

Nintendo can't be the only company in the industry or on their system though. They do need reasonably healthy 3rd parties since very few people only own Nintendo games. For that those that do only own Wii Play, MKWii, and NSMBW, Nintendo probably couldn't suvive with just those sales and would be a much diminished company even if it could. It's not like the Wii isn't selling any 3rd party software, at worst it's around the 360.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

i'm sure the RE fans on the HD twins would have bought alot more then 16k copies.

you do know "16k" are the debut numbers for france, right

the game did bad in comparison to UC, but let's not go crazy here

 

[Ponn]

RE4 Wii has sold more than RE5 PS3. Just FYI.

RE5 was a multiplatform game that shared development costs for one game across two platforms. Did RE4 Wii sell more than RE5 PS3/Xbox 360 combined?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Wrong dude, they should left all those bastards out for good and try to fill up all lacking and missing gaming genres by themself. If Nintendo should have learned one thing from this gen, than it's definetatly the fact that they can't rely on 3rd-Parties and they never will.

Just invest your money in more studios to handle the market yourself, Ninty!

I don't think turning your back on the whole industry would be a good move for Nintendo, burning bridges and all that.

 

[schuelma]

you do know "16k" are the debut numbers for france, right

the game did bad in comparison to UC, but let's not go crazy here

People either can't read or choose not to. Don't know which is worse.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

i'm sure the RE fans on the HD twins would have bought alot more then 16k copies.

In France alone in 3 weeks?

 

[grandjedi6]

It wasn't just Nintendo fans that thought that- most sales age people assumed that would happen. Clearly many many people were wrong.

To be fair, most people didn't expect Nintendo to phone it in so early, thus losing whatever momentum they had in that area.

 

[Kosma]

High Voltage Software

I heard those guys were good

 

[mugwhump]

overkill and the conduit sold quite well, even though the conduit was shit and overkill was overpriced.

Did the conduit sell well?

 

[Frencherman]

I don't think turning your back on the whole industry would be a good move for Nintendo, burning bridges and all that.

In my oppinion they've already done it pretty successfully with Wii and DS. So why not finishing this process of isolation by aborting all contacts with other companies within the industry?

 

[Jokeropia]

RE5 was a multiplatform game that shared development costs for one game across two platforms

RE4 Wii was a GC port that probably cost less than half of what RE5 did to develop.

 

[schuelma]

To be fair, most people didn't expect Nintendo to phone it in so early, thus losing whatever momentum they had in that area.

What do you mean by phoning it in? Trying to convince 3rd parties to develop for the system? Making more efforts at "core" games? Just a bit unclear

 

[Zombie James]

RE5 was a multiplatform game that shared development costs for one game across two platforms. Did RE4 Wii sell more than RE5 PS3/Xbox 360 combined?

You forgot PC.

 

[word up]

RE5 was a multiplatform game that shared development costs for one game across two platforms. Did RE4 Wii sell more than RE5 PS3/Xbox 360 combined?

No, it shared development costs with the Gamecube original and the PS2 port. Which both sold significant numbers. 1.6m on GC 2 million on PS2

 

[DMeisterJ]

To be published by Nintendo no less

If that happened X(

 

[Ponn]

RE4 Wii was a GC port that probably cost less than half of what RE5 did to develop.

You didn't answer the question.

You forgot PC

Doh!

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Of course Nintendo "needs" strong 3rd party support. If they didn't need it they wouldn't devote so much time to trying to get it. Its the achilles heel of their Wii juggernaut.

They'd love it, but they don't need it. They are, and will continue to be financial rockstars whether their 3rd party support is weak or strong. No 3rd party support may be a completely different story.

 

[Jokeropia]

It's been two years of the same argument, with evidence that the games don't sell as well as they should with respect to the userbase.

There were a ton of games that "should" have sold more on PS2 as well.

 

[grandjedi6]

What do you mean by phoning it in? Trying to convince 3rd parties to develop for the system? Making more efforts at "core" games? Just a bit unclear

All of the above? Nintendo made too many assumptions about the inevitability of the their 3rd party support and so they ramped down efforts at both getting 3rd parties to develop for the system and their own output. Hence their 2008 slow down that killed their momentum in that area.