• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Capcom does a Sega: less support for the Wii 'cause RE:DSC sold 16k

Status
Not open for further replies.

jesusraz

Member
Hmm, RE: DSC has slowly climbed up the Wii Top 40 in the UK since release and is holding steady now. This 16,000 figure is purely for France, so perhaps it's doing better in various other EU countries. Perhaps people should wait for a full European sales update, whenever that happens, before calling it a complete disaster.

RE: TUC also had Nintendo's support in Europe, which will have made at least some difference. DSC is Capcom alone.
 

Verano

Reads Ace as Lace. May God have mercy on their soul
hmmm so that means more hardcore games for ps3 and 360...lame. kinda sucks that they're getting off the wagon however they should've known that the Wii's philosophy is mostly centered on casual games to attract every age group out there.

Also, as a wii owner myself, even if the Wii sells millions of units, just how many of those Wii owners are as hardcore gamers as we are???
 

lsslave

Jew Gamer
Leondexter said:
Hey Capcom, listen up:

I bought Umbrella Chronicles for two reasons:

1. It looked like it might be fun.
2. You led us to believe that it was a test, and if it sold well, we'd get "real" RE games for the Wii, like RE4.5 or REmake2.

I didn't like Umbrella Chronicles much, and new "real" RE games for the Wii are nowhere in sight. So screw you and screw Darkside Chronicles. What the hell were you thinking?

But it's all good. You're right, don't make more Wii games. I don't trust you to make a good RE4.5 now anyway, because RE5 stunk. So just make REmake2 for an HD system and all is forgiven.

The bolded was my stance. I used to buy "test" games for the Wii.

Now out of 5 Wii games (got rid of most of them) I have ONE that isn't from Nintendo and that is No More Heroes.

The hardcore didn't leave the Wii, we are still there just waiting for a Wii game that is actually WORTH playing when next to it you put out a better game for the PS3/360.

Ah well, aside from Megaman 10 Capcom doesn't have any games at all I am looking forward to so I suppose I will live.
 
Re-posting some of my thoughts I just posted in the 3mil Wii thread. It is more appropriate here though:

If 3rd parties put in a decent effort from the start, they would be yielding much better results overall. Most serious "hardcore" efforts attempted on the Wii have been botched in some way or other, and if they haven't they typically did okay. Not amazing, but decent nonetheless. The first 3rd party game I see that has huge selling potential for the Wii is coming out at the end of 2010. That is 4 years into its life cycle. Unacceptable if you ask me. Epic Mickey is the first serious venture into Blockbuster territory on the Wii, and there is no way the game will flop. Too bad it will take that long for 3rd parties to even realize how make and market a game for the Wii that can appeal to both the "hardcore" and the casuals. This would be like the PS2 not getting GTA3 until 2005. Even then it's not completely comparable because the PS2 also got Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Metal Gear Solid, and almost every other serious effort last gen. It really is amazing how badly 3rd parties shot themselves in the collective foot. Even now when they are all bleeding money at a rapid pace, they can't get their shit together and blame the Wii for it, not the consoles where all their money is being funneled into.
 
gofreak said:
Nintendo got to #1... fueled by a completely different type of market that's much less diverse in taste. Nintendo knew this, I'm sure of it.

I think it's actually the opposite of what you're saying. I think people would like to think that "oh man, these shooters are all so diverse!" but they're really not. Tell me, how many of the top-selling 360/PS3/PC games involve shooting guns? Madden and the now-dwindling sales of the music genre, I guess?

Meanwhile Nintendo's top sellers range from sports minigame collections to dog simulators to "life" village games to platformers to kart-racing games to fitness games to "brain training" exercises to adventure games. Their 2 million+ selling "dud" is a music game.

This isn't even counting hits in the puzzle genre like Professor Layton or "Friend Colleciton" or Style Savvy or whatever.

The issue for these third-parties is actually that Nintendo's new market is SO diverse that they don't know what to do, because they're so used to making the same games over and over and appealing to the same market with them.
 

nightez

Banned
I think this game still would have tanked as well if it were on the PS3 or Xbox 360 as a full retail release. Light Gun shooters should be limited to budget games and or mini-game collections.

Capcom should have just made new maps and enemy skins for RE4, marketed it as a side story (RE: The Las Plagas Saga) and called it a day.

...
 

Jokeropia

Member
gofreak said:
The Wii audience does not have the diversity of purchasing interest the PS2 had, or previous #1 systems had.
Based on what? It's true that there are more 15M+ sellers on Wii than on PS2, but overall software sales on Wii are also greater than those on PS2 at an equivalent point in it's life.
gofreak said:
They were never interested in nor competing seriously for the core gamer.
Define "core gamer".
gofreak said:
Getting folks out to buy the occasional Nintendo 'core' game is not the same as owning that market. They don't. It's probably more accurate to say that they get occasional visits from that market.
Based on what? (Not your anecdotal example, I hope.)
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
For the longest time, I sympathized with the gamers about third parties not trying hard enough, but at some point you have to come to the conclusion that they're right. Their games aren't selling on Wii. I'll give a brief comparison to Gamecube.

Wii Exclusives:
The Conduit
MadWorld
Okami
Zack and Wiki
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
Trauma Center
Boom Blox
Rabbids Go Home
SSX Blur
de Blob
Medal of Honor: Heroes 2
Elebits
House of the Dead: Overkill
Klonoa
Need For Speed Nitro
No More Heroes

Gamecube Exclusives:
Resident Evil 4
Star Wars Rogue Leader 2 & 3
Viewtiful Joe
Product No. 3
Super Monkey Ball
Sonic Adventure 1 & 2
Soul Calibur 2
Phantasy Star
Ikaruga

I'm sure I missed some and there are a few ports, but I feel like there was enough there to justify saying that it should have sold well on it's respective system. Now, there are a lot more games I could have mentioned for Gamecube, like Prince of Persia:TSOT, BG&E, Splinter Cell, etc. etc. The thing is, most of the third party games for GC were also available on PS2 or Xbox which helped offset the sales. That isn't the case with the Wii. It's larger install base should make up for that, but, the games just aren't selling. It isn't like developers aren't trying to fill all the gaps, but there has to come a point where they say enough is enough, the games aren't selling. Maybe they need more advertisement. I know I've bought 6 of the Wii games I listed brand new. I've seen some friends who had one or two of them as well, but for the most part, Wii owners are buying Nintendo games. I do think a big title like Metal Gear or Final Fantasy would do well on the system (just look at RE4) but I can't fault 3rd parties for not trying. I do wonder how those same games would have fared if they had been on 360/PS3 though. I'm guessing for the most part, they would have sold better.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Stopsign said:
Re-posting some of my thoughts I just posted in the 3mil Wii thread. It is more appropriate here though:

If 3rd parties put in a decent effort from the start, they would be yielding much better results overall. Most serious "hardcore" efforts attempted on the Wii have been botched in some way or other, and if they haven't they typically did okay. Not amazing, but decent nonetheless. The first 3rd party game I see that has huge selling potential for the Wii is coming out at the end of 2010. That is 4 years into its life cycle. Unacceptable if you ask me. Epic Mickey is the first serious venture into Blockbuster territory on the Wii, and there is no way the game will flop. Too bad it will take that long for 3rd parties to even realize how make and market a game for the Wii that can appeal to both the "hardcore" and the casuals. This would be like the PS2 not getting GTA3 until 2005. Even then it's not completely comparable because the PS2 also got Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Metal Gear Solid, and almost every other serious effort last gen. It really is amazing how badly 3rd parties shot themselves in the collective foot. Even now when they are all bleeding money at a rapid pace, they can't get their shit together and blame the Wii for it, not the consoles where all their money is being funneled into.

Exactly, 3rd parties missed the boat and even when the boat was sailing off I think they believed (like a lot of people still liked to believe) that the Wii was just a fad and the HD consoles would overtake. Having learnt nothing from the DS.

They couldn't easily accommodate the Wii because porting down from HD would in most cases be impossible. Rather than restructuring development and taking resources away from HD titles, they instead threw token gestures out to the Wii market to try and take advantage of the huge userbase with easy sales, and cheap to produce titles. But these were often outsourced, or using B-teams, there was no great commitment to long-term Wii development because they believed the tide would shift back to the HD consoles.

The Wii has basically thrown a spanner in the works, and 3rd parties are falling over themselves to say they are now going to move forward developing for the HD consoles because that was ALWAYS the way they wanted to develop. Giving examples which really wouldn't have set the world on fire in any circumstances.

There is a ridiculously massive market out there, and blockbuster titles with high production values would sell. It's a massive missed opportunity for them.
 
wii:
1-Westen developers want hi-tech graphics and moneyhats
2-Nintendo doesnt need those developers and doesnt give moneyhats for those games

Foreseable future:

if wii 2 is comparable tech-wise to its competitors

1-Westen developers say its too difficult to develop, its for kids or throw "test" games that dont matter to core gamers, and we go back to the same as old wii.
2-Nintendo might still not need them and probably still wont give moneyhats....

if wii 2 is like a 360/ps3 see old wii.

THE END.
 
Jokeropia said:
Based on what? It's true that there are more 15M+ sellers on Wii than on PS2, but overall software sales on Wii are also greater than those on PS2 at an equivalent point in it's life.
Define "core gamer".
Based on what? (Not your anecdotal example, I hope.)

Honestly, just look at the Top across the systems for PS2, Wii, and PS360:

Wii

Wii Sports (50.54 million)[69]
Wii Play (24.43 million)[69]
Wii Fit (22.5 million)[69]
Mario Kart Wii (18.36 million)[69]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (8.43 million)[70]
Super Mario Galaxy (8.02 million)[71]
Wii Sports Resort (6.97 million approximately[69]; 1.25 million in United States, 1.568 million in Japan[72], 1 million in Europe, 100,000 in Australia [73][74])
New Super Mario Bros. Wii (6.94 million approximately; 2 million in North America[75], 2.44 mil copies in Japan[76], 2.5 million in Europe[77])
Mario Party 8 (6.72 million)[71]
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (4.52 million)[71]

PS2

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (17.33)[120]
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (14.89 million approximately: 7.14 million in North America, 1.89 million in Japan, 5.85 in Europe[121]
Gran Turismo 4 (10.76 million approximately: 2.97 million in North America, 6.36 in Europe, 1.26 in Japan [121]
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (9.21 million approximately: 8.2 million in US,[19] 410,293 in Japan,[122] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Grand Theft Auto III (7.509 million approximately: 6.55 million in US,[19] 358,917 in Japan,[122] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (7 million)[123]
Final Fantasy X (6.6 million) [124]
Final Fantasy XII (5.2 million approximately: 2.4 million in Japan,[125] 1.7 million in US,[19] 1.1 million in Europe;[126] 5.2 million shipped)[127]
Kingdom Hearts (4.68 million approximately: 3.45 million in US,[19] 1.23 million in Japan;[46] 5.9 million shipped including Kingdom Hearts Final Mix and Ultimate Hits)[128]
Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King (4.44 million approximately: 3.6 million in Japan,[46][129] 410,000 in Europe,[130] 430,000 in North America;[131] 4.88 million shipped)[

PS3

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (4.17 million)[134]
MotorStorm (3.31 million)[135]
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (3 million shipped)[136]
Grand Theft Auto IV (2.659 million approximately: 1.89 million in US,[28] 169,000 in Japan,[137] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (2.6 million)[138][139]
Resistance: Fall of Man (2.5 million)[140]
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (2.5 million approximately; 1.9 million in the US,[27] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Final Fantasy XIII (1.516 million)[141]
Resident Evil 5 (1.32 million approximately: 585,000 in US,[142] 475,799 in Japan,[143] 200,000 in UK,[23] 62,040 in France)[144]
Infamous (1.2 million)[145]
Heavenly Sword (1 million)[146]
Killzone 2 (1 million)[147]
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift (1 million)[148]
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (1 million)[149]
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (1 million)

360

Halo 3 (8.1 million)[24]
Gears of War (5 million,[25] may include PC version)
Gears of War 2 (5 million)[26]
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (4.2 million)[27]
Grand Theft Auto IV (4.074 million approximately: 3.29 million in US,[28] 750,000 in UK,[29] 34,000 in Japan)[30]
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (3.772 million approximately: 3.04 million in US,[31] 78,000 in Canada,[32] 54,742 in Japan,[33] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Call of Duty: World at War (3.35 million approximately: 2.75 million in US,[28] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Halo 3: ODST (3 million)[35]
Forza Motorsport 2 (2.674 million approximately: 2.23 million in US,[19] 31,255 and 100,500 Platinum Collection,[33] 12,600 in Canada,[36] 300,000 in UK)[37]
Fable II (2.6 million)[38]

If you can't see what consoles own the "Core" demographic, then you are simply blind.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Cosmonaut X said:
The only interesting thing about these comments (for me, anyway) is the drop-off from Umbrella Chronicles to Darkside Chronicles.

It's obvious that in late 2007 there was an audience for this exact type of game, so what happened in the two years since? I'd argue that lack of consistent releases for that audience from third parties - and from Nintendo - through 2008, together with accelerating support for the HD Trio, drove them away, and it would take a monumental effort (a series of big, desirable exclusives backed by decent advertising) to get them back.

I do think that DSC would have seen a marked decline anyway, as I think many buyers were burnt by the quality of the original game and would have steered clear of the sequel, but I think it may have been a less dramatic drop-off if there had been a more satisfied core audience.
With regards to light gun games: the wii has too many of them. yes, Umbrella chronicles sold well. The diference between now and then is that there are a dozen quality light gun games that have been released for the wii already, and people are getting sick of them, as they all play the same. the genre is pretty much the least varied in the industry in terms of different game designs.

Also, I, for one, am sick of announcements of the wii getting new entries in successful franchises, only to learn that it's another fucking light gun game (see: RE and Dead Space).

one reason why NSMBWii is probably succeeding in addition to being a new 2D mario is that it's an actual high quality title that doesn't feel like a supplemental experience to the real entries in a series. When I play pretty much any 3rd party efforst on the wii that aren't super niche titles like Zack & Wiki or Little King's Story, it feels like I'm getting hand-me downs or second class products (which I usually am.)

Developers want to treat the wii like shit, software sales are starting to reflect that, and as people are becoming more and more disenfranchised, they'll be more reluctant to buy any future endeavors that 3rd parties take on the wii, even if they finally start having effort put into them. I think we're starting to see that with Tales of Graces' sales in japan.
 

Fugu

Member
Why would they waste their time developing a quality game designed specifically for the Wii when the platform, from a conventional standpoint, has little going for it?

It has by far the worst online support, it lacks technical capabilities, and while the control scheme is different, it doesn't (and hasn't yet) lend itself well to traditional games. Unless Capcom can come up with a big idea that actually takes advantage of the one thing the Wii really has going for it (a unique control scheme), they are most certainly in the right to stick to developing "traditional" games on the PS3/X360. Otherwise, they're trying to attract an audience that doesn't exist (gamers who don't mind buying gimmicky Wii stuff).
 

legend166

Member
Boombloxer said:
Honestly, just look at the Top across the systems for PS2, Wii, and PS360:









If you can't see what consoles own the "Core" demographic, then you are simply blind.

Well, I see a Wii 'core' game on the bottom of its list which has outsold every PS3 game ever released.

Soooooooooooo.......
 

Frenck

Banned
Capcom should take a lesson from Nintendo. If you have a cheap, low quality game that you want to sell just pack it in with a worthless piece of plastic and the intended audience will flock to buy it.

Or just pack in a Wiimote to make your game a guaranteed success.
 

neoanarch

Member
legend166 said:
Well, I see a Wii 'core' game on the bottom of its list which has outsold every PS3 game ever released.

Soooooooooooo.......


By my count, I see five core games on the wii. But the term hardcore or core gamer is stupid and doesn't really mean anything.
 

Jokeropia

Member
MadOdorMachine said:
I'm sure I missed some and there are a few ports, but I feel like there was enough there to justify saying that it should have sold well on it's respective system.
The majority of the Wii games you listed did sell well.
Boombloxer said:
If you can't see what consoles own the "Core" demographic, then you are simply blind.
I see the Wii's "core" games (Smash Bros, Galaxy) selling better than the 360's or PS3's core games. And Mario Kart is at least as much of a "core" game as Gran Turismo or GTA.
Ardorx said:
And yet Game Party is one of the biggest franchises on the wii.
No it's not.
Fugu said:
Unless Capcom can come up with a big idea that actually takes advantage of the one thing the Wii really has going for it (a unique control scheme)
They did that, it's called RE4: Wii. I want more games like that.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Fugu said:
Why would they waste their time developing a quality game designed specifically for the Wii...
I don't know, maybe because the Wii is the best selling home console in history outside of the PS1, PS2, and NES, after only three years? Last I checked, companies were choosing to support the PS1 and PS2 over the N64, Saturn, GC, and Xbox because of sales. Apparently userbase size no longer trumps everything else with regards to platform choice.
 

Fugu

Member
Jokeropia said:
And Mario Kart is at least as much of a "core" game as Gran Turismo or GTA.
Is that some kind of a joke?

I've never had my line disturbed by a banana...

GaimeGuy said:
I don't know, maybe because the Wii is the best selling home console in history outside of the PS1, PS2, and NES, after only three years? Last I checked, companies were choosing to support the PS1 and PS2 over the N64, Saturn, GC, and Xbox because of sales. Apparently userbase size no longer trumps everything else with regards to platform choice.
A lot of people own PCs too; there's more to selecting a platform to develop on than the amount of people who have bought said platform.

Do you think Gears of War would have sold better on the Wii than it did on the X360 simply based on the fact that the Wii has had better sales worldwide, despite the fact that the X360 has better online architecture, a more well-suited controller, voice chat, and some decent hardware?
 

careful

Member
Nintendo just sold 3 gazillion Wiis in December. I don't think they care about losing a bit of 3rd party games at this point.
 
Master Z said:
It baffles me why Capcom hasn't made a traditional RE game for the Wii yet especially after RE4 sold well. The only thing I can think of is that the talent required to make such a game would rather work on the HD consoles where their vision can be fully realized and the suits don't mind because those games (for the most part) sell very well....

What would be the point. It makes more sense to just make RE6 and then port it to the Wii.
 
careful said:
Nintendo just sold 3 gazillion Wiis in December. I don't think they care about losing a bit of 3rd party games at this point.

Good for stock holders and sales-age, but going by this thread there are a lot of Wii gamers who do care about good third-party support (and i don't blame them).
 

Fugu

Member
Jokeropia said:
Like, I dunno, RE4: Wii?
Yes, like RE4:Wii.
They need to come up with more ideas than just the one. Perhaps the reason they've stopped developing for the Wii is because they can't come up with any more ideas like that. Having played RE4:Wii, I would not pay for or rather I would not enjoy playing a cardboard cutout of RE4:Wii.

Jokeropia said:
Bananas are casual confirmed.
My point was that Mario Kart and Gran Turismo are pandering to two extremely different groups of people. It's tough to wrap your mind around the concept of a racing sim and a multiplayer-centric go-karting game being marketed to two different audiences, but you're just going to have to try.
 

Jokeropia

Member
Fugu said:
Yes, like RE4:Wii.
They need to come up with more ideas than just the one. Perhaps the reason they've stopped developing for the Wii is because they can't come up with any more ideas like that. Having played RE4:Wii, I would not pay for or rather I would not enjoy playing a cardboard cutout of RE4:Wii.
I would most definitely enjoy playing another third person shooter with the same production values as RE4: Wii.
Fugu said:
My point was that Mario Kart and Gran Turismo are pandering to two extremely different groups of people.
I don't disagree with this, I just don't consider either group to be more "core" than the other.
 
Jokeropia said:
The majority of the Wii games you listed did sell well.
I see the Wii's "core" games (Smash Bros, Galaxy) selling better than the 360's or PS3's core games. And Mario Kart is at least as much of a "core" game as Gran Turismo or GTA.

:lol Mario Kart is a cartoony racing game, not a crime opus in NYC. One can be played with Moms, the other is condemned. They are not anywhere even close to the same thing.

You can argue 3 games total fit a traditional core market, the rest are all casual. Casual meaning that you can simply pick up and play with minimal effort, in most cases with friends, no complex mechanics. Swining your wrist to hit a tennis ball, or turning your cart is not the equivalent to precision aiming in Infamous, or the latter. That is what seperates them.

Wii Sports (50.54 million)[69]
Wii Play (24.43 million)[69]
Wii Fit (22.5 million)[69]
Mario Kart Wii (18.36 million)[69]
Wii Sports Resort (6.97 million approximately[69]; 1.25 million in United States, 1.568 million in Japan[72], 1 million in Europe, 100,000 in Australia [73][74])
Mario Party 8 (6.72 million)[71]

Are all casual games, period.

Secondly, now look at who actually made them. Not one 3rd party game on the list.
So, say you are EA, who made the successful Wii Sports Active and the not so successful Dead Space.

Which game do you greenlight? The one that did 1.8 million or the one that did sub 100k?

Meanwhile...

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (17.33)[120]
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (9.21 million approximately: 8.2 million in US,[19] 410,293 in Japan,[122] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Grand Theft Auto III (7.509 million approximately: 6.55 million in US,[19] 358,917 in Japan,[122] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (7 million)[123]
Final Fantasy X (6.6 million) [124]
Final Fantasy XII (5.2 million approximately: 2.4 million in Japan,[125] 1.7 million in US,[19] 1.1 million in Europe;[126] 5.2 million shipped)[127]
Kingdom Hearts (4.68 million approximately: 3.45 million in US,[19] 1.23 million in Japan;[46] 5.9 million shipped including Kingdom Hearts Final Mix and Ultimate Hits)[128]
Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King (4.44 million approximately: 3.6 million in Japan,[46][129] 410,000 in Europe,[130] 430,000 in North America;[131] 4.88 million shipped)[

No casual games here.

Halo 3 (8.1 million)[24]
Gears of War (5 million,[25] may include PC version)
Gears of War 2 (5 million)[26]
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (4.2 million)[27]
Grand Theft Auto IV (4.074 million approximately: 3.29 million in US,[28] 750,000 in UK,[29] 34,000 in Japan)[30]
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (3.772 million approximately: 3.04 million in US,[31] 78,000 in Canada,[32] 54,742 in Japan,[33] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Call of Duty: World at War (3.35 million approximately: 2.75 million in US,[28] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Halo 3: ODST (3 million)[35]
Fable II (2.6 million)[38]

Zip.

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (3 million shipped)[136]
Grand Theft Auto IV (2.659 million approximately: 1.89 million in US,[28] 169,000 in Japan,[137] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (2.6 million)[138][139]
Resistance: Fall of Man (2.5 million)[140]
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (2.5 million approximately; 1.9 million in the US,[27] 600,000 in UK)[34]
Final Fantasy XIII (1.516 million)[141]
Resident Evil 5 (1.32 million approximately: 585,000 in US,[142] 475,799 in Japan,[143] 200,000 in UK,[23] 62,040 in France)[144]
Infamous (1.2 million)[145]
Heavenly Sword (1 million)[146]
Killzone 2 (1 million)[147]
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (1 million)

Nada.

This is without listing the multiple million sellers on the 360, like Borderlands, Bioshock, etc. Two system have a viable audience for the traditional Core gamer. The other, does not.

Why is it so hard to see this? And this is just wikipedia, not the mountainous DFC or similar reports that break it down further, and come with impressions. Not to mention the focus groups that are run specifically to determine this type of shit and how to benefit from it.

So, like I said earlier, 2 years in, the exact same spot.
 

Sinnick

Member
* Reads article *

...not surprising. I think I'll just restate what I posted in a previous thread.

Sinnick said:
I'm surprised people continue to believe that 3rd parties simply don't know what to do generate hits on the Wii. They do. Unfortunately, protecting their PS3 & 360 investments, preserving the direction their trying to take gaming, & ensuring that they have at least 2 players on the market that are willing to fight over them all take precedence. That's all. Making thoughtful AAA "core" titles on the Wii on the regular puts that in jeopardy.

EA saw evidence on this early on with the Godfather game (and that wasn't even a AAA title) which is probably part of the reason why the PS3 got the sequel. Imagine the results if they regularly released games that not only were perceived to have better control schemes, but at a passing glance looked on par with the HD versions. This is why third parties, EA included, aren't putting much effort into Wii games & often try to differentiate their core titles as much as possible from their HD counterparts. BTW, Ubisoft admitting that they're using Wii profits to help fund HD projects is also evidence of this strategy.

To those who suggest that Nintendo should begin to fill in the gaps left by 3rd parties, let me put it this way. They tried this during the N64 era, mostly out of necessity, through Rare & folks like Left Field. They were going to try again in the GC era, but Retro turned out to be a mess at the beginning & needed to be scaled back. BTW, why haven't we heard from them in 3 years? Anyway, my point is that Nintendo is willing & probably is taking steps to go in that direction. However, they're Nintendo. They need to do everything their way & at their own pace - even when it doesn't make sense to the rest of us :D

One day, y'all need to accept that Nintendo & 3rd parties are on two totally different trajectories. Both will say whatever is necessary, even if it's a complete lie, to justify their decisions. Neither side is going to budge in any significant way unless backed into a corner.
 

Fugu

Member
Jokeropia said:
I would most definitely enjoy playing another third person shooter with the same production values as RE4: Wii.
Production values don't do much to sell the concept of a Wii game to a developer considering production values will take you further on a console with superior hardware and a larger percentage of keen consumers who do research on the games they buy before they buy them.

Having said that, I was referring to how RE4:Wii had excellent controls and how it took advantage of the Wii's traits as a console. It was an offline game that provided an experience that couldn't be done anywhere else. Making games that are essentially worse versions of their other console/PC counterparts isn't going to work, production values be damned. (See The Conduit)
 

klee123

Member
ziran said:
Shhhh....

Don't mention Monster Hunter Tri, that massively outsold the last home console version on the 'mighty' PS2! Tends to fuck things up ;-)

You gotta be fucking kidding me. I suppose the popularity of the PSP games did nothing for the franchise whatsoever and all Wii owners never owned a PSP before right?
 

donny2112

Member
grandjedi6 said:
Because its an absurdly popular brand right now. And even then it pales in comparison to the HD versions.

As it should considering that it's an afterthought in advertising, if that, and the game that made CoD monstrous didn't come out on Wii until its sequel was coming out on PS360. CoD3 Wii outsold CoD3 PS3. The market was there.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Rated-Rsuperstar said:
What would be the point. It makes more sense to just make RE6 and then port it to the Wii.

It's the porting down that's the problem. If the gap in specs wasn't so big you'd see 3rd parties chucking out ports of big titles with not a worry in the world for the Wii.

The difficulty means the alternative is something built from the ground-up for the Wii. Something like RE4, with it's level of design/complexity, would need one of Capcom's top-teams, who as they are already committed to the HD versions can't do it.

So you get the only other option of giving a simpler game concept (on-rails shooter) to a lesser team or out-soucing it completely.

The Wii is in a catch 22 situation with 3rd party development. A result of the spec-difference making it impossible to incorporate into big title development, and a reluctance of companies to restructure development because they don't see the Wii market as proven for big titles. As such it will always be seen as 'unproven'.
 

Fugu

Member
Jokeropia said:
I don't disagree with this, I just don't consider either group to be more "core" than the other.
Gran Turismo has a steeper learning curve and a larger barrier of entry. Yes, vroom vroom fast cars pretty colours does have a certain mainstream appeal, that the game is designed with built-in difficulty with the intent that the player will actually have to master a skill to do well at it gives it less mass-appeal.
 
One day, y'all need to accept that Nintendo & 3rd parties are on two totally different trajectories. Both will say whatever is necessary, even if it's a complete lie, to justify their decisions. Neither side is going to budge in any significant way unless backed into a corner.

I would say it's painfuly obvious at this point. You go where the money is, for 3rd parties, for the most part, it is found elsewhere.

When did we stop calling GTA and Gran Turismo casual games?

They are popular Core titles that cannot be placed in the same category as Wii Sports or Mario Kart, they have different audiences, and are marketed differently.
 

Fugu

Member
Frenck said:
When did we stop calling GTA and Gran Turismo casual games?
When Wii Sports lowered the standard.

donny2112 said:
CoD3 Wii outsold CoD3 PS3.
Is there a source for this? Not that I don't believe you (CoD wasn't popular at all on consoles before CoD4) but I can't imagine anyone buying the (rather bad) Wii version.

...Although CoD3 did come out at a time when the PS3 was $600 and selling about two consoles a day.
 
Frenck said:
When did we stop calling GTA and Gran Turismo casual games?
When the bar got lowered. Last generation's casual hits are this generation's complex, multi-button montstrocities not suitible for mommy bloggers.
 

Frenck

Banned
Fugu said:
When Wii Sports lowered the standard.

:D

No, seriously. Maybe the definition changed at some point and I missed it but I remember that back in the PS2 days those two franchises were were the two top examples of casual games. Or at least I thought they were...

According to wikipedia a casual game is a game that has extremely simplified gameplay and can be picked up and played by anyone.

Well, GTA and Gran Turismo sold to a casual audience and they were/are big franchises that are known in non-gaming circles but they are by no means simple or easy to pick up. I guess the word casual game now refers more to the simplified gameplay than to the popularity of a game among casual gamers.
 

Jokeropia

Member
Fugu said:
Production values don't do much to sell the concept of a Wii game to a developer considering production values will take you further on a console with superior hardware and a larger percentage of keen consumers who do research on the games they buy before they buy them.

Having said that, I was referring to how RE4:Wii had excellent controls and how it took advantage of the Wii's traits as a console. It was an offline game that provided an experience that couldn't be done anywhere else. Making games that are essentially worse versions of their other console/PC counterparts isn't going to work, production values be damned. (See The Conduit)
But "games like RE4:Wii" would be good production values + taking advantage of Wii controls.
Boombloxer said:
No casual games here.



Zip.



Nada.
:lol

GTA, MW and Halo are as casual as they come.
Boombloxer said:
You can argue 3 games total fit a traditional core market, the rest are all casual.
I think you have a very silly definition of "core" and "casual", but even with that definition, Wii's best selling core games have outsold the 360 and PS3 best selling core games.
 

donny2112

Member
Ponn01 said:
Did RE4 Wii sell more than RE5 PS3/Xbox 360 combined?

Did it need to? Again: "And" not "Or."

Fugu said:
Is there a source for this?

There was a LTD leak in January 2009 showing the Wii about double the PS3 version. That's sort of inflated, though, as Wii CoD3 had been selling since launch without a replacement until WaW due to MW1's skipping of the Wii. From the old leaks "way back when" the Wii version had started off about 20% higher than the PS3 version in the first few months from launch for both, though.
 

Fugu

Member
Well, Wii Sports was a bad example, but the plethora of games that are easy to pick up in virtually every genre (RPGs maybe the exception and action games seem to maintain their reputation for high difficulty) have definitely lowered the standards a bit. GTA4 seems a lot less casual considering how "casual" casual can really be. There's never been anything quite like, say, Wii Fit in prior generations.
 

Grecco

Member
CamHostage said:
We don't know what kind of game Resident Evil Portable will be, actually.

But this whole light gun rage thing, I don't get. On-rails is frustrating sometimes in replay value (although games like Starfox are on rails and are oft-played), but lightgunning is a perfectly decent way to do videogames that fits this platform well.


.


There is no "light gun rage" simply the reality that Light Gun games are a dead genre. They havent sold well in ages. Expepecting them to is silly. Suggesting its proof that the Wii consumer is "casual" is silly.


If On Rails Shooters dont sell on Wii becasue its a casual system then how are they doing on Xbox and Ps3?
 

Blueblur1

Member
All I gotta say is that I'm sure there has never been a substantial hardcore gamer Wii audience. I can't help but laugh when [internet] Wii gamers ask for more hardcore Wii games and then the games proceed to bomb. Either innovate, be flashy and decent, or sell a mini-game collection.

If I were Capcom, I would have made a Capcom All-Stars Mario Party-esque game ages ago. That might have sold well. That and more Mega Man console games that don't have an "X" in the title.
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
Jokeropia said:
The majority of the Wii games you listed did sell well.
Obviously not well enough and perhaps that's partially due to marketing, but if they were selling that well then we'd see more like them. I don't know why the games haven't been selling better. The games are there, but they aren't reaching the audience.
 
If I were Capcom, I would have made a Capcom All-Stars Mario Party-esque game ages ago. That might have sold well. That and more Mega Man console games that don't have an "X" in the title.

Yep. Also add Jill Valentine's Fitness Ultimatum to the list as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom