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[ShockingAlberto]

Obviously not well enough and perhaps that's partially due to marketing, but if they were selling that well then we'd see more like them. I don't know why the games haven't been selling better. The games are there, but they aren't reaching the audience.

Part of it is that iterative gaming does not really reach this audience.

While a large part of the Madden audience will buy an updated game every year, most people don't need a sequel to the co-op lightgun shooter they bought two years ago. For a lot of them, they didn't even finish it. It doesn't offer incredibly improved graphics or a way better interface from the last game, so who would be interested in DSC except for people way in to Resident Evil's story?

The proper follow-up to Umbrella Chronicles would have been something entirely different, except Capcom doesn't think that way and maybe they should start.

 

[jay]

:lol Mario Kart is a cartoony racing game, not a crime opus in NYC. One can be played with Moms, the other is condemned. They are not anywhere even close to the same thing.

You can argue 3 games total fit a traditional core market, the rest are all casual. Casual meaning that you can simply pick up and play with minimal effort, in most cases with friends, no complex mechanics. Swining your wrist to hit a tennis ball, or turning your cart is not the equivalent to precision aiming in Infamous, or the latter. That is what seperates them.



Are all casual games, period.

Secondly, now look at who actually made them. Not one 3rd party game on the list.
So, say you are EA, who made the successful Wii Sports Active and the not so successful Dead Space.

Which game do you greenlight? The one that did 1.8 million or the one that did sub 100k?

Meanwhile...



No casual games here.



Zip.



Nada.

This is without listing the multiple million sellers on the 360, like Borderlands, Bioshock, etc. Two system have a viable audience for the traditional Core gamer. The other, does not.

Why is it so hard to see this? And this is just wikipedia, not the mountainous DFC or similar reports that break it down further, and come with impressions. Not to mention the focus groups that are run specifically to determine this type of shit and how to benefit from it.

So, like I said earlier, 2 years in, the exact same spot.

This is another topic altogether, but I remember in the old days when we laughed at Halo and GTA as the casual games. Every era needs an enemy.

 

[Boombloxer]

:lol

GTA, MW and Halo are as casual as they come.I think you have a very silly definition of "core" and "casual", but even with that definition, Wii's best selling core games have outsold the 360 and PS3 best selling core games.

It's not silly to acknowledge that "casual" simply does not mean what it did during the PS2 era. Unless you really think that Mario Kart is a core game, which is ridiculous.

And you are basically saying that the Core games made by Nintendo outsold their counterparts, but that's not the point--where are the 3rd party games that have got that high?

Now compare them to the PS360, and you have a pretty clear picture. 3rd parties aren't to blame, the market simply isn't there. Expecting a sudden drove of high-quality core games from third parties is simply unrealistic.

Nintendo knows this. 3rd parties know this. Nothing is going to change, because Nintendo does not control the core market in the same way that the PS2 did, and the 360 (and an emerging PS3) now do. They have a new market that likes different games, so games are made to suit them, while the traditional games are made for the HD twins.

This is another topic altogether, but I remember in the old days when we laughed at Halo and GTA as the casual games. Every era needs an enemy.

Heh, yea. Not so much an enemy, but the leap from Iphone to DS/Wii games is a lot less than Iphone to PS3/360. That's who Nintendo sold to, and are happy with.

 

[linkboy]

Even if the Wii was HD, we'd just have the Gamecube situation all over again. All the GC got from the majority of 3rd party developers was subpar ports that were inferior to the PS2\Xbox versions and then developers dropped support when they didn't sell well.

EA: Their GC sports games were inferior to the PS2\Xbox versions which resulted in EA scaling back GC support

SEGA Sports: Same as EA, ended up dropping support all together

Eidos: Ported their games to the GC 6 months after the other releases, blamed Nintendo for their lack of sales, dropped support.

Capcom: Ended up porting pretty much all of their games (except for PNO 03) to the PS2.

Namco: One of the better 3rd parties on the GC. Delivered some good RPGs (Tales and Baten Kaitos).

Square-Enix: One game, which required the GBA to play properly (albeit this was funded by Nintendo)

That's exactly what we would have seen on a WiiHD. If 3rd parties were serious about supporting Nintendo consoles, they would show it (they don't).

They had a perfect opportunity when the Wii launched and they, not Nintendo or anyone else, blew it. I would love to buy some 3rd party games for my Wii, but I'm not going to buy crap games that were done by the interns because they were sitting in the office with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon.

3rd parties love the HD twins because they can keep dishing out the same concepts over and over and over again and moronic teenagers keep picking them up because the game cover either has a chick with boobs so big they'll give her back problems or a guy with so many guns on him he's a walking definition of the "Army of One" slogan.

IMO, this has been the worst generations of consoles ever. If it wasn't for the handhelds, I'd hardly play anything. I've actually found myself going backwards with the games I played. My SNES (both actual and VC), NES (actual and VC), and PS1 get more playtime then my Wii, PS3 or 360.

 

[Frenck]

Well, Wii Sports was a bad example, but the plethora of games that are easy to pick up in virtually every genre (RPGs maybe the exception and action games seem to maintain their reputation for high difficulty) have definitely lowered the standards a bit. GTA4 seems a lot less casual considering how "casual" casual can really be. There's never been anything quite like, say, Wii Fit in prior generations.

The term casual game is a bit vague anyway. You can use it to describe games that are aimed at a casual audience (Wii Sports, Buzz, Singstar) or hardcore games that have been adopted by a casual audience (Gran Turismo, GTA, Halo, NSMB).

Another example would The Sims. The game itself is pretty hardcore in the sense that you have to learn the game and pay attention to a lot of information that is displayed on the screen at all times yet it's largely refered to as a casual game.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

This is another topic altogether, but I remember in the old days when we laughed at Halo and GTA as the casual games. Every era needs an enemy.

I remember in the circles I ran in, FFVII/VIII were the huge enemies in that generation. Sony in a broader sense, too. They were getting casuals to play games, the jerks!

 

[oblo]

Well I did buy (day one) and enjoy (mostly co-op) Darkside Chronicles, but comparing it to RE4 (whatever version) is kind of ridiculous... No?

They all complain about the lack of succes of hardcore titles and then they mention HotD: Overkill, MadWorld, Deap Space Extraction, DR: Chop Till You Drop and now RE: Darkside Chronicles... Mmmkay, 3/5 are on-rails shooters, I like'em as much as the next guy but even then I skipped Dead Space, can't catch'em all. I lo-ove MadWorld, but c'mon, wasn't it pretty obvious from the get-go that this was going to be a cult classic and not a top-seller? And Dead Rising, yeah, fun can be had with it but it's just not on par with the original and if you want to get the hardcore on Wii: don't try giving them a watered down version of something they already played on another system! I'm actually quite interested in how well CoD: MW Reflex is doing, because that game is exactly that, a watered down port, but still actually good and the controls could be argued to be an improvent over the original...

Now, The Conduit had the mechanics down, if only they could have made it look even the slightest little bit appealing... I don't think I've ever seen a more bland looking, plain ugly CE... I work at a gamestore (in Euroland), I've seen a gazillion shitty games with a bazillion times more appealing boxart than that turd and yes a lot of the Wii crowd is not "in the know" and they do buy whatever looks appealing in the rack and comes as cheap as possible...Horrible, horrible, titles mostly... And sometimes awesome Nintendo games when they feel like spending big, that too.

Red Steel 2 is the only non-Nintendo game I see coming that has a real chance, if they get the marketing done right it might do okay, biggest drawback might be the "2" behind the name, a lot of the hardcore got burned on the first one... No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle is destined to become my favorite game of all time but I highly doubt it will sell much better than the first one, too bad really.

Anyway, a major issue when it comes to sales on Wii seems to me that people who pirate have way superior taste over people who buy their games. Sad but true in my personal experience. It's even worse on DS of course... You don't really notice it that much on PSP because nothing sells, besides GTA (when they're not top-down) to the 4- to 13-year-olds and I don't really know whether PS3 is really that much more popular overhere in Belgium, but sales of multiplatform titles in our store would make you believe so, of course: I don't really know anyone playing pirated games on their PS3...

 

[Zombie James]

3rd parties love the HD twins because they can keep dishing out the same concepts over and over and over again and moronic teenagers keep picking them up because the game cover either has a chick with boobs so big they'll give her back problems or a guy with so many guns on him he's a walking definition of the "Army of One" slogan.

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

 

[Boombloxer]

3rd parties love the HD twins because they can keep making constant money via annual sequels, DLC and a streamlined production process for a market they know.

Adjusted.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Sadly this has been the case since the GC days. Don't get me wrong, the Wii has had some 3rd party and hardcore games but they frankly have underperformed severely considering the userbase. I've been following Nintendo for over 20 years now, the N64 days were the last good days for all around 1st/3rd party hardcore performers at retail. Not that some of the games don't sell but we have to admit that sales have been paltry to say the least (hence this thread).

The hardcore market is pretty much camped out on the 360 and PS3. The Wii has the usual stellar Nintendo 1st party offering but even those have not pleased the core users like in the past. While Nintendo sells 3m Wii's in December (to casuals, not meant to be offensive) the 360/PS3 sell to the market which is going to spend money on the more mature and HD centric high end games. And it works. Look at the SW scenarion on 360 (and PS3 to a lesser extent). There's a reason why Capcom and others feel like this towards Wii. Tales of Graces is another expmple

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I remember in the circles I ran in, FFVII/VIII were the huge enemies in that generation. Sony in a broader sense, too. They were getting casuals to play games, the jerks!

 

[jay]

I remember in the circles I ran in, FFVII/VIII were the huge enemies in that generation. Sony in a broader sense, too. They were getting casuals to play games, the jerks!

Pac-Man and Pong are any core gamers worst enemies because they made gaming popular to people who didn't only play games they themselves made in a computer lab.

 

[jts]

Even if the Wii was HD, we'd just have the Gamecube situation all over again. All the GC got from the majority of 3rd party developers was subpar ports that were inferior to the PS2\Xbox versions and then developers dropped support when they didn't sell well.

EA: Their GC sports games were inferior to the PS2\Xbox versions which resulted in EA scaling back GC support

SEGA Sports: Same as EA, ended up dropping support all together

Eidos: Ported their games to the GC 6 months after the other releases, blamed Nintendo for their lack of sales, dropped support.

Capcom: Ended up porting pretty much all of their games (except for PNO 03) to the PS2.

Namco: One of the better 3rd parties on the GC. Delivered some good RPGs (Tales and Baten Kaitos).

Square-Enix: One game, which required the GBA to play properly (albeit this was funded by Nintendo)

That's exactly what we would have seen on a WiiHD. If 3rd parties were serious about supporting Nintendo consoles, they would show it (they don't).

They had a perfect opportunity when the Wii launched and they, not Nintendo or anyone else, blew it. I would love to buy some 3rd party games for my Wii, but I'm not going to buy crap games that were done by the interns because they were sitting in the office with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon.

3rd parties love the HD twins because they can keep dishing out the same concepts over and over and over again and moronic teenagers keep picking them up because the game cover either has a chick with boobs so big they'll give her back problems or a guy with so many guns on him he's a walking definition of the "Army of One" slogan.

IMO, this has been the worst generations of consoles ever. If it wasn't for the handhelds, I'd hardly play anything. I've actually found myself going backwards with the games I played. My SNES (both actual and VC), NES (actual and VC), and PS1 get more playtime then my Wii, PS3 or 360.

You can't really compare the Wii to the GC situation, because the GC sold poorly.

A Wii HD, as successful as the current Wii, wouldn't have lost support from developers. Too easy to port HD games and large userbase would guarantee good software sales.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Hey, 3rd parties, I'm not deliberately holding out on you, here.


I bought Trauma Center
I bought Zack & Wiki
I bought RE4 Wii
I bought RE: UC
I bought Little King's Story
I bought Muramasa
I bought No More Heroes.
I bought House of the Dead
I bought Ghost Squad

I was going to buy the sonic games, Madworld, and FFCC:The Crystal Bearers, but they all ended up not living up to expectations when I tried them out. Similarly, okami was a rather shoddily handled port that I was planning on buying, but didn't.

I would have bought the rayman raving rabbids titles if they weren't all dumb minigame collections

I didn't buy darkside chronicles or Dead space extraction because I'm fucking sick of light gun games.

I'll gladly buy Monster Hunter 3.
I gladly bought Punchout.
I gladly bought ExciteTruck
I bought Twilight Princess
I bought Mario Galaxy
I bought New Super Mario Bros. Wii.
I bought Fire Emblem: radiant dawn

I'm going to buy Silent Hill sometime this month.

and I'm certainly forgetting a few games.

Give the wii titles as good as MGS4, Valkyrie Chronicles, DQVIII, FFX, FFXII, MGS2, Kingdom Hearts, Demon's Souls, Disgaea 3, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Tales of Vesperia, Assassin's Creed, Street Fighter IV, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Bioshock, Dead Space, Dead Rising, Dragon Age, Devil May Cry, and I guarantee you that you'll see better sales.

Continue to give us Light Gun Spinoff #29, minigame collection #50, and Sub-par franchise spinoff #15 (see: FFCC), and you'll find yourselves struggling to get my money.

I'm waiting.

 

[lsslave]

the "wii isn't a worthwhile platform to develop on" excuse by developers is an open nerve, and with good cause.

It has gotten old... the next 2 Wii games I am getting (catching up from 2009) are going to be Wii Sports Resort and New Super Mario Bros Wii. No third party Wii games in 2009 sold me (thank god for No More Heroes 2)

Wii owners are, as Nintendo said from the beginning, owning multiple consoles. They have to make a game that is as good as or better than what I can get on the PS3 or 360

Putting out a AAA game for the HD consoles (very little exclusive support lately) and a D-tier Wii game isn't going to make me play my Wii more. That just isn't how it works.

 

[leroy hacker]

If I were Capcom, I would have made a Capcom All-Stars Mario Party-esque game ages ago. That might have sold well. That and more Mega Man console games that don't have an "X" in the title.

I personally think Power Stone and Mega Man Powered Up could have succeeded on the Wii, if one is reasonable about what success would mean for those games. The fact that they instead ended up on the PSP where they bombed miserably and killed off future developments along those lines is depressing to me.

 

[GaimeGuy]

fuck I remember in early 2007 when ubisoft was talking about how pleased they were with sales of their Wii launch titles, and how they were going to use the profits to help finance their development costs for PS3 and 360 titles.

Even when companies do well, they're openly talking about shifting resources to other systems. It's stupid.

 

[RurouniZel]

Looks like I was right; now companies will use the failure of fucking /light gun games/ to say that core gaming is dead on the Wii. Any fucking excuse, I tell you.

It's not just a matter of core gamers not understanding the market Nintendo captured with the Wii, btw. And it's not about that market having "less diverse taste".

The expanded audience are the ones playing games that hardcore gamers ignore; they play browser games, puzzle games, the Sims, simulations, new variations of online multiplayer RPGs, etc. However, and I still believe this is being proven out, the expanded audience that the Wii has captured has a quality that is very hard for core and x-treme gamers to understand: they're a tough sell.

Core gamers are an EASY SELL. They play ANYTHING. They're taken in by graphics and pageantry, and by technological gimmickry. (Hint for people who ain't got it yet: the Wii Remote is not a gimmick. The Wii Balance Board is not a gimmick. Games predicated on repackaging the same shit with fresh shaders and a few meaningless variations in stale formulas are gimmicks.)

The people who Nintendo has reached out to this generation are the people who have been turned off at the sight of what gamers consider fuckin' grawsome: "boring" racing sims, hyper violent first person "murder simulators" and gangster games, because from their perspective, those things aren't clever, and there's no draw to wasting time playing them when they can get all the nice cut scenes watching a movie about WWII or gangland violence.

These same people will play Bejeweled for hundreds of hours and put more time into it than most core gamers will ever spend on a single $60, five hour campaign first-person shooter.

The truth is, most game companies don't know or if they did once know, have forgotten how to make games outside of an increasingly narrow range. It's easier to retreat back and sell the hardcore more of same game they've been buying over and over for the last ten years with better graphics each time and a new online gametype mutation. Core gamers say they want "innovation", 'cause even they're bored (yet they still keep buying the games!), but real innovation is uncomfortable and does away with the cues they've become addicted to.

None of this is to say that the expanded audience or the Wii audience knows best; there is no one "best". There are aspects of core games that people outside the dedicated gamers also do not get because they're unfamiliar with them. This is why bridge games exist on the Wii, such as Mario Kart. A lot of people who've never played a driving game have quite gotten into it thanks to MK Wii.

However, the official Inconvenient Truth of current gaming is that the Wii phenomenon has shed some light on bad trends in the game industry, and the industry - and gamers - are doing everything they can to ignore it and rig a sunshade up. The Wii has made an end-run around the current industry into new territory. There's no reason companies like Capcom can't capitalize on that, but they either don't understand how to, or don't really want to.

It's easier to blame failure on /light gun games/. El Oh El.

 

[Aaron Strife]

The Conduit (gift to my bro)

You're a monster.

Looks like I was right; now companies will use the failure of fucking /light gun games/ to say that core gaming is dead on the Wii. Any fucking excuse, I tell you.

It's not just a matter of core gamers not understanding the market Nintendo captured with the Wii, btw. And it's not about that market having "less diverse taste".

The expanded audience are the ones playing games that hardcore gamers ignore; they play browser games, puzzle games, the Sims, simulations, new variations of online multiplayer RPGs, etc. However, and I still believe this is being proven out, the expanded audience that the Wii has captured has a quality that is very hard for core and x-treme gamers to understand: they're a tough sell.

Core gamers are an EASY SELL. They play ANYTHING. They're taken in by graphics and pageantry, and by technological gimmickry. (Hint for people who ain't got it yet: the Wii Remote is not a gimmick. The Wii Balance Board is not a gimmick. Games predicated on repackaging the same shit with fresh shaders and a few meaningless variations in stale formulas are gimmicks.)

The people who Nintendo has reached out to this generation are the people who have been turned off at the sight of what gamers consider fuckin' grawsome: "boring" racing sims, hyper violent first person "murder simulators" and gangster games, because from their perspective, those things aren't clever, and there's no draw to wasting time playing them when they can get all the nice cut scenes watching a movie about WWII or gangland violence.

These same people will play Bejeweled for hundreds of hours and put more time into it than most core gamers will ever spend on a single $60, five hour campaign first-person shooter.

The truth is, most game companies don't know or if they did once know, have forgotten how to make games outside of an increasingly narrow range. It's easier to retreat back and sell the hardcore more of same game they've been buying over and over for the last ten years with better graphics each time and a new online gametype mutation. Core gamers say they want "innovation", 'cause even they're bored (yet they still keep buying the games!), but real innovation is uncomfortable and does away with the cues they've become addicted to.

None of this is to say that the expanded audience or the Wii audience knows best; there is no one "best". There are aspects of core games that people outside the dedicated gamers also do not get because they're unfamiliar with them. This is why bridge games exist on the Wii, such as Mario Kart. A lot of people who've never played a driving game have quite gotten into it thanks to MK Wii.

However, the official Inconvenient Truth of current gaming is that the Wii phenomenon has shed some light on bad trends in the game industry, and the industry - and gamers - are doing everything they can to ignore it and rig a sunshade up. The Wii has made an end-run around the current industry into new territory. There's no reason companies like Capcom can't capitalize on that, but they either don't understand how to, or don't really want to.

It's easier to blame failure on /light gun games/. El Oh El.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Hopefully this doesn't effect whether we get Overkill 2 or not. Now that's a series that I wouldn't mind buying an on-rails sequel of.

I also hope Silent Hill sells (relatively) well. At least, I hope it does better in the end than Homecoming at least... maybe the long-tail of Wii games combined with word of mouth will help it.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Hopefully this doesn't effect whether we get Overkill 2 or not. Now that's a series that I wouldn't mind buying an on-rails sequel of.

What is Kuju doing now?

 

[Blueblur1]

Kaijima made some good points. Too little too late though. I'm sure we'll have another one of these threads when MH3 fails to break the 150,000 mark.

 

[Nirolak]

What is Kuju doing now?

Assuming you're referring to the Headstrong Games division of Kuju (since they made Overkill), it seems Aragorn's Quest and something else:

Caroline Green’s Summary

House of The Dead Overkill (wii)
Battalion Wars 2 (wii)
Battalion Wars (GC)
SAS The Regiment (PC)
Reign of Fire (PS2)
FireBlade (PS2 , XBOX)

Current Progects:-
Aragorn's Quest
Un-announced

Source: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/caroline-green/15/484/4ba

 

[soldat7]

Give the wii titles as good as MGS4, Valkyrie Chronicles, DQVIII, FFX, FFXII, MGS2, Kingdom Hearts, Demon's Souls, Disgaea 3, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Tales of Vesperia, Assassin's Creed, Street Fighter IV, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Bioshock, Dead Space, Dead Rising, Dragon Age, Devil May Cry, and I guarantee you that you'll see better sales.

Nintendo does not provide ground as fertile as Sony and Microsoft provide for third-party developers. Nintendo's games always shine brightest and they wouldn't have it any other way. You also can't expect individual third-party titles to sell as well to such a diversified audience as the Wii has. Konami could make the best Metal Gear Solid game evar, but if it were exclusive to Wii, it simply wouldn't sell as much as many of you would hope or like.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

What is Kuju doing now?

a lord of the rings action/adventure game for wii starring aragorn, with a cartoony warcraft art style

 

[linkboy]

You can't really compare the Wii to the GC situation, because the GC sold poorly.

A Wii HD, as successful as the current Wii, wouldn't have lost support from developers. Too easy to port HD games and large userbase would guarantee good software sales.

Not at launch it didn't. 3rd parties weren't giving the GC a fair shake from the minute it was sold in stores.

They always viewed it as the other system to the PS2\Xbox.

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

How so.

Here's what I see when I'm at any of the video game stores in town (2 Gamestops, 1 Hastings, 1 Play N Trade, and might as well throw in Wal-Mart, Target, Shop-Ko and the rest). Just about every game the majority of the 18 & under crowd picks up in Play N Trade is rated M (and the store does enforce the ESRB ratings, so they don't sell them or even let them play them without parental permission)

Kids in middle school and high school gravitating over to the games with guns and women. Did I say those games were bad games, hell no (they're not, some of them are downright great). Games, like movies, are more about advertising then quality. Good advertising can make a crap game sell great (same with movies) and bad advertising can make a great game sell badly (same with movies).

That applies to every system, including the Wii. Look at the difference between New Super Mario Bros Wii and Excitebots. One game had a fantastic ad campaign and its selling great, the other had no ad campaign and people don't even know it exists.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Nintendo does not provide ground as fertile as Sony and Microsoft provide for third-party developers. Nintendo's games always shine brightest and they wouldn't have it any other way. You also can't expect individual third-party titles to sell as well to such a diversified audience as the Wii has. Konami could make the best Metal Gear Solid game evar, but if it were exclusive to Wii, it simply wouldn't sell as much as many of you would hope or like.

again with the hand waving "IT JUST DOESN'T WORK ON THE WII" bullshit.

 

[Nirolak]

a lord of the rings action/adventure game for wii starring aragorn, with a cartoony warcraft art style

There is that unannounced project also.

It seems it may be for the PS3 though.

R&D Technology Programmer
Kuju Entertainment

(Public Company; Computer Games industry)

June 2007 — October 2009 (2 years 5 months)

As an R&D technology programmer I am responsible for the enhancement, optimisation and maintenance of in-house tools and engines, and for providing support for these technologies to the rest of the Kuju group. My work has included providing maintenance and support for art pipeline tools, Wii and PS3 engine coding, and over the past 6 months taking a key role in designing and implementing major cross platform multi-core solutions (using SPURS on the PS3) for the company's next generation of technology.

Source: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/michael-harnetty/11/b7/7a1

Edit:

There are a few other references to the PS3 also: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/neil-millstone/3/b58/440

But yeah, definitely Aragorn's Quest seems to be their main project right now from looking through these resumes.

 

[RurouniZel]

Nintendo does not provide ground as fertile as Sony and Microsoft provide for third-party developers. Nintendo's games always shine brightest and they wouldn't have it any other way. You also can't expect individual third-party titles to sell as well to such a diversified audience as the Wii has. Konami could make the best Metal Gear Solid game evar, but if it were exclusive to Wii, it simply wouldn't sell as much as many of you would hope or like.

As Kajima already mentioned, we core gamers are something of an easy sell. If all the good games move to one platform, we'll inevitably be forced to go there as well.

Believe it or not, there was a time when many of us didn't want PlayStations. It was all about Sega and Nintendo, not Sony! The PlayStation was guaranteed to be another 3D0. But when games like Castlevania, Final Fantasy, and Metal Gear all ended up on the PlayStation, we had to bite the bullet and take the plunge.

The Wii would have been no different if it had the heavy support right after it took off like crazy.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

There is that unannounced project also.

It seems it may be for the PS3 though.


Source: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/michael-harnetty/11/b7/7a1

Edit:

There are a few other references to the PS3 also: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/neil-millstone/3/b58/440

But yeah, definitely Aragorn's Quest seems to be their main project right now from looked through these resumes.

Overkill 2 moved to PS3 in lieu of DSC bombing confirmed!

 

[Dragmire]

'Let's not respect the Wii audience, not give them what they ask for (a real RE), and instead give them another game in an already oversaturated market. Then when it doesn't sell, we'll act surprised and stop making games for the system.'

Granted, they have to compete with the avalanche of budget shovelware other third parties have heaped on the Wii, but if publishers in this industry had any sense, this wouldn't have happened. They don't know how to sell a product to a broad market (aka they don't understand business ffs) and thus they chased hardcore gamers off to buy their hardcore games on other platforms and drowned the Wii market in shovelware. In fact, their responses to poor hardcore game sales has been what? Drown the Wii in yet more shovelware. Then that doesn't sell and their response is what? Even safer, family friendlier shovelware. With licenses. Plenty of hardcore games on Wii have sold well, and if I weren't averse to lists, I would name them. But alas, Nintendo fans can't have nice things.

 

[Count Dookkake]

"GTA: Drive By," a racing and shooter hybrid featuring levels based on the different iterations of the GTA universe, would be a huge seller on the Wii.

 

[soldat7]

As Kajima already mentioned, we core gamers are something of an easy sell. If all the good games move to one platform, we'll inevitably be forced to go there as well.

Believe it or not, there was a time when many of us didn't want PlayStations. It was all about Sega and Nintendo, not Sony! The PlayStation was guaranteed to be another 3D0. But when games like Castlevania, Final Fantasy, and Metal Gear all ended up on the PlayStation, we had to bite the bullet and take the plunge.

The Wii would have been no different if it had the heavy support right after it took off like crazy.

But developers/publishers will not provide heavy support without sales prospects. It's somewhat of a conundrum (understatement). Again, it's been a very long time since Nintendo has been fertile ground for third-parties, and I don't see Nintendo changing things. And why should they? They're making money hand over fist without third-party assistance.

again with the hand waving "IT JUST DOESN'T WORK ON THE WII" bullshit.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I'm going to assume you don't agree. Say what you will, but developers and others in the industry have been saying as much for many, many years now. Nintendo is simply less compatible with third-party development than the other companies in the market. Sales of your third-party title, no matter how good, are less of a guarantee.

 

[RurouniZel]

But developers/publishers will not provide heavy support without sales prospects. It's somewhat of a conundrum (understatement). Again, it's been a very long time since Nintendo has been fertile ground for third-parties, and I don't see Nintendo changing things. And why should they? They're making money hand over fist without third-party assistance.

Here's the other thing. In the GC days Nintendo bought some support from Capcom and Namco and whoever else because at the time, they were in 3rd place. They had to. Now that they're back on top, they feel that they shouldn't need to buy their support. They feel they should want too because their market has the greatest potential for growth and innovation.

So essentially, Nintendo's biggest mistake with 3rd parties this generation was VASTLY overestimating their desire to create new experiences and grow new audiences.

 

[Jokeropia]

Obviously not well enough

Well enough for what? Several are getting/have gotten sequels.

It's not silly to acknowledge that "casual" simply does not mean what it did during the PS2 era. Unless you really think that Mario Kart is a core game, which is ridiculous.

Not if you define GTA or MW as core games. The Wii ___ line of games I can see, but Mario Kart is very traditional.

And you are basically saying that the Core games made by Nintendo outsold their counterparts, but that's not the point--where are the 3rd party games that have got that high?

Where are the AAA 3rd party "Core" games on Wii period? The only one that really qualifies is MH3, and that's mostly for Japan. (Where it did fine.) I see no reason why Nintendo's core games shouldn't count. It's not like they're only bought by hardcore Nintendo fanboys that exclusively buy Nintendo games as Nintendo's audience right now is bigger than it ever was.

Sadly this has been the case since the GC days. Don't get me wrong, the Wii has had some third party and hardcore games but they frankly have underperformed severely considering the userbase.

There are games that underperform on every system. Wii also has both third party and "hardcore" games that have sold very well.

I've been following Nintendo for over 20 years now, the N64 days were the last good days for all around 1st/3rd party hardcore performers at retail. Not that some of the games don't sell but we have to admit that sales have been paltry to say the least (hence this thread).

Actually, Nintendo's core games are more successful now than ever.

The hardcore market is pretty much camped out on the 360 and PS3. The Wii has the usual stellar Nintendo 1st party offering but even those have not pleased the core users like in the past.

BS. Nintendo's first party games are as good as ever.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

As already mentioned, we core gamers are something of an easy sell. If all the good games move to one platform, we'll inevitably be forced to go there as well.

Believe it or not, there was a time when many of us didn't want PlayStations. It was all about Sega and Nintendo, not Sony! The PlayStation was guaranteed to be another 3D0. But when games like Castlevania, Final Fantasy, and Metal Gear all ended up on the PlayStation, we had to bite the bullet and take the plunge.

The Wii would have been no different if it had the heavy support right after it took off like crazy.

I don't even personally believe the situation is irreversible. If 3rd parties started delivering high quality games consistently we would likely see a burgeoning market. They're creating the very conditions they complain about because they haven't bothered laying the groundwork. It's all one big self fulfilling prophecy, and Nintendo's success is the scapegoat. Can anyone really be surprised that half baked spin offs and ports released in total isolation have tepid sales? The time of dangling the "test carrot" in front of traditional gamers and expecting huge returns should have died 18 months ago. It's all a bunch of bullshit and the consumer has caught on. Boo fucking hoo for the 3rd parties that still try that rouse and get bitten in the ass. Nintendo games sell on Nintendo systems because of the quality of their products. The idea that large publishers like Capcom or Konami couldn't thrive on Wii if they brought their "A" game is a fucking joke, except it's constantly perpetuated as some sort of self apparent fact.

 

[scitek]

okami, Re4, zack and wiki, dead rising, re:UC and DSC, id say that's pretty decent support, nothing amazing, but a lot better than some.

You have a port of a PS2 game that didn't sell on a console with a 100 million console install base, a port of a 2 year-old GameCube and PS2 game, a point-and-click, a really REALLY shitty remake of a 360 game, and two light-gun games.

What out of those games would be expected to sell well on any console?

RE4 sold well because of its reputation as one of the greatest games ever made, and the new controls actually improved it, and in turn, UC sold well because of the success of RE4. UC far exceeded their own expectations, so even they knew a light-gun game probably wouldn't sell too well to begin with. They then made the mistake of thinking the same thing would happen two years later with a sequel to the game that caught them by surprise, and now they're all butt-hurt because it was a one-off instance.

The Resident Evil crowd probably had their fill with RE5 coming out last year, too, AND with the knowledge of a Director's Cut of the same game coming this year, I can totally see them passing on a spin-off. You also have to consider that UC came out between major franchise entries and was in a perfect spot to be a filler for series fans.

So, like I said about the Sega guy, I don't care anymore, just shift all games to the HD twins and shutup already. Fuck.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Maybe these guys who with upper management positions for successful multi-million dollar companies like Capcom know what they're talking about a bit more than a bunch of fans on a message board?

* looks at Blue Ocean Strategy *

* looks at what consumers buy *

* looks at what devs come up with and what gets made *

* looks at ludology and narratology (an actual field, apparently) *

Answer: No, but the message boards don't have a clue either.


Still, the days of the idea of "the expert manager" have been numbered for a good while now. The manager of old is hardly even a supported idea these days.

 

[soldat7]

Here's the other thing. In the GC days Nintendo bought some support from Capcom and Namco and whoever else because at the time, they were in 3rd place. They had to. Now that they're back on top, they feel that they shouldn't need to buy their support. They feel they should want too because their market has the greatest potential for growth and innovation.

So essentially, Nintendo's biggest mistake with 3rd parties this generation was VASTLY overestimating their desire to create new experiences.

I'd say third-parties have done a pretty decent job at creating new experiences. They just don't sell and that is the big mystery that Nintendo isn't really trying to solve.

 

[durendal]

Dead Space Extraction is a good game.

House of the Dead: Overkill is a good game.

Madworld is a good game.

None of them sold well.

Maybe these guys who with upper management positions for successful multi-million dollar companies like Capcom know what they're talking about a bit more than a bunch of fans on a message board?

Its not like this is some guy who works for a scrub 3rd party or indie developer. He works for Capcom, one of the most consistently successful 3rd parties in the world, and one that stepped into this new generation with both a desire to support the Wii and the best 360/PS3 cross platform model of anyone in the industry already in mind.

They generally seem to have a clue.

Those games suck and industry executives are idiots. Very simple.

I'm part of the the so-called core audience and I did not buy any of these games because they do not appeal to me and are not worth my money. This is why they fail. Nintendo games sell well because they know what the customer wants. Of course, the common industry sentiment is that these games sell because "It's Nintendo". Yeah, these idiots know what they're talking about.

 

[RurouniZel]

I don't even personally believe the situation is irreversible. If 3rd parties started delivering high quality games consistently we would likely see a burgeoning market. They're creating the very conditions they complain about because they haven't bothered laying the groundwork. It's all one big self fulfilling prophecy, and Nintendo's success is the scapegoat. Can anyone really be surprised that half baked spin offs and ports released in total isolation have tepid sales? The time of dangling the "test carrot" in front of traditional gamers and expecting huge returns should have died 18 months ago. It's all a bunch of bullshit and the consumer has caught on. Boo fucking hoo for the 3rd parties that still try that rouse and get bitten in the ass. Nintendo games sell on Nintendo systems because of the quality of their products. The idea that large publishers like Capcom or Konami couldn't thrive on Wii if they brought their "A" game is a fucking joke, except it's constantly perpetuated as some sort of self apparent fact.

Of course, I said when it first took off, which was a while ago. 3rd parties did this to themselves and now they're bitching and moaning 'cause they know it's too late unless it's a HUGE game like Dragon Quest X. They're angry, and when you're angry it's easy to point the finger elsewhere.

As I've said before, their loss. The way they've acted, it's not surprising so many are closing their doors. Sad, yes. But not surprising.

I'd say third-parties have done a pretty decent job at creating new experiences. They just don't sell and that is the big mystery that Nintendo isn't really trying to solve.

More like they weren't patient enough. You have to take the time to nourish the audience, a good way to do that is to start with an established franchise, but not a spin off. Then, once you have them, introduce the new ideas. Going from RE4Wii to UC was not as good a decision as moving from RE4Wii to RE4.5Wii or something else similar with a few new ideas would have been. Ease them in, as it were.

 

[Classic_Gs]

The Wii sucks, move on.

 

[test_account]

I have been meaning to ask this for quite some time now: What does those "[ ]" brackets in the article in the OP means and why are they used? I have seen these brackets being used in several of other articles as well.

 

[nightez]

Honestly, just look at the Top across the systems for PS2, Wii, and PS360:









If you can't see what consoles own the "Core" demographic, then you are simply blind.

Those Wii games have astounding sales - almost unbelievable. I thought Call of Duty was the biggest selling game this generation.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

where's segata and thunder monkey

 

[Jokeropia]

The Wii sucks, move on.

This has to be one of the least stealthy trolls ever.

 

[zero_suit]

The Wii sucks, move on.

0/10

 

[linkboy]

I'd say third-parties have done a pretty decent job at creating new experiences. They just don't sell and that is the big mystery that Nintendo isn't really trying to solve.

Advertising would be a good start.

How many times have we seen a Wii game go out to retail and the company that made it ignores it like is got leprosy and want's nothing to do with it.

I'm willing to bet that some of those creative new experiences would probably have sold better if they had some advertising behind them.

Take Dead Space on the Wii, did EA even give it an advertising budget?

Like I said before, good advertising can make a bad game sell great and a great game sell bad. This is 100% for every single game console ever made.

Show me one 3rd party Wii game that has gotten an advertising push equal to anything the HD twins gets.

Lastly, why should it be up to Nintendo to solve the problem, the 3rd party developers are the ones who started it.

Instead of looking at why games like Wii Sports or Fit were successful, they flooded the market with crappy knock-offs (totally missing the point of what made Wii Sports popular in the first place). They laid their eggs in one basket, totally screwed up, and now its to late to fix it.

Like I said before, I'll buy a 3rd party game from a developer who actually puts an effort out (one big reason why I bought The Conduit, sure its got problems, but High Voltage at least tried and put an effort into it, that's more then I can say for some of the big name developers. I'm also going to get a Boy and His Blob with my next paycheck). I'm not going to buy a game from a 3rd party who doesn't put an effort into it and makes a subpar game just because its a big franchise.

 

[soldat7]

Those games suck and industry executives are idiots. Very simple.

I'm part of the the so-called core audience and I did not buy any of these games because they do not appeal to me and are not worth my money. This is why they fail. Nintendo games sell well because they know what the customer wants. Of course, the common industry sentiment is that these games sell because "It's Nintendo". Yeah, these idiots know what they're talking about.

Sure Nintendo games have that 'special sauce', but they can also get away with incremental updates to many of their titles such as Animal Crossing and Mario Kart. These games continue to sell well despite the lack of innovation. Sure, not every Nintendo title is going to light up the charts, but many still do despite not being new or fresh experiences. You absolutely cannot blame developers or suits for not knowing what to do with the Wii.

 

[RurouniZel]

This has to be one of the least stealthy trolls ever.

Didn't even use a cardboard box.