Change was great actually.
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Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Faith (3DS)
- Thread starter Sadist
- Start date
I'm the opposite. Zobek was so over-foreshadowed that it came as no surprise.
Satan was actually thematically appropriate. The ascension of angels leaving behind an evil shell, a bizarre area of land where God's influence has waned and old gods run amok... While perhaps AND SUDDENLY, SATAN was a surprise, it fitted the plot rather well.
Also, out-of-nowhere twists can be great, sometimes. I like not being able to work out the plot ahead of the twist.
In fact, maybe that was the plan. Because Zobek was so fucking obvious, they tricked me into thinking I was so damn smart. Then AND SUDDENLY, SATAN was the rug pull moment and I realised they'd tricked me.
My sole disappointment is that we were denied a proper fight against Zobek. Oh well.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I agree alot of people hated on Satan as the last boss but he fit perfectly in the context of the game.
still would have liked something of a fight in Gabriel's head against himself as Dracula though.
That's not even all of the core members of the SoTN team. I'm sure having Toru Hagihara made a huge difference, I wonder how the series would be today if he stayed in control rather than it going to Iga?
But I felt like part of the appeal was that Castlevania DID change hands frequently, or so it seemed to me. Maybe it'll be balanced by Mercury Steam leaving after LoS2, but I don't think that's ideal either. Maybe if they can form a solid Japanese team to have them do something new too, at least on handhelds?
I just tried this and... initial impressions aren't good. The frame rate for one is terrible, with or without 3D on. Every time 3 or more enemies came on screen things just started to feel very sluggish. I felt the graphics were kinda bland in comparison to the 2D CVs as well.
Magicpaint
Member
Not surprised tbh. Oh well, hopefully it improves.
Nocturnowl
Member
I don't want to believe in these less than pleasant impressions! this game is like one of the few things i'm looking forward to.
true, but when their previous game had severe framerate problems people get kinda worried. Nothing in the game so far makes me think the 3DS isn't capable of running it at least 30fps.
Yeah, the sidescroller viewpoint should make it a tad easier for the 3DS I think. I mean Capcom got REvelations running smooth (I think?) and that looks much better than this.
Ziophaelin
Member
Hey guys, Kris the Lead Designer/ aka Overlord on Shinobi. I just wanted to say thanks for the nice things you guys have said about the game and for the criticism too, it keeps me on my toes. 
I too am pretty excited about CV on the 3DS!
... oh and this is my first post on NeoGaf. I have enjoyed reading these forums for a long time.
I too am pretty excited about CV on the 3DS!
... oh and this is my first post on NeoGaf. I have enjoyed reading these forums for a long time.
Hey guys, Kris the Lead Designer/ aka Overlord on Shinobi. I just wanted to say thanks for the nice things you guys have said about the game and for the criticism too, it keeps me on my toes.
I too am pretty excited about CV on the 3DS!
... oh and this is my first post on NeoGaf. I have enjoyed reading these forums for a long time.
I have to give you major props for having a giant cybernetic shark and an afterburner remix in your game.
evilromero
Member
I was initially disappointed by the graphics from E3, especially compared to games like Revelations and Icarus. I kind of hope they can clean that up a bit.
Ziophaelin
Member
Admit-ably (or admirably if that's how you see it), I was either really high or drunk coming up with most of that... probably explains the graphics too.
I'm kidding...
... or am I?
Has anyone seen the new Castlevania in person anywhere yet?
Yeah but this also has a lot more going on, a lot more quickly
Ziophaelin
Member
Creating Side-scrollers on the 3DS is harder!
Take it from me, I worked with the hardware! Anyone that attempts it is doing it very deliberately. We were shocked by this, as it was the first time that in our history of development that side-scrolling games wasn't marginally easier to pull off.
The hardware excels at 3rd person roaming in smaller linked together environments. I can't go into why that is because of NDA, so you'll just have to trust me on that.
3DS hardware wants things like Resident Evil Room to room type games.
Take it from me, I worked with the hardware! Anyone that attempts it is doing it very deliberately. We were shocked by this, as it was the first time that in our history of development that side-scrolling games wasn't marginally easier to pull off.
The hardware excels at 3rd person roaming in smaller linked together environments.
I can't go into why that is because of NDA, so you'll just have to trust me on that.3DS hardware wants things like Resident Evil Room to room type games.
Creating Side-scrollers on the 3DS is harder!
Take it from me, I worked with the hardware! Anyone that attempts it is doing it very deliberately. We were shocked by this, as it was the first time that in our history of development that side-scrolling games wasn't marginally easier to pull off.
The hardware excels at 3rd person roaming in smaller linked together environments.
3DS hardware wants things like Resident Evil Room to room type games.
Huh. The more you know, I guess.
Hey guys, Kris the Lead Designer/ aka Overlord on Shinobi. I just wanted to say thanks for the nice things you guys have said about the game and for the criticism too, it keeps me on my toes.
I too am pretty excited about CV on the 3DS!
... oh and this is my first post on NeoGaf. I have enjoyed reading these forums for a long time.
Hey, Kris!
Loved Shinobi 3D and how you and the rest of the dev team answered our questions and posted details on GameFAQs.
Ziophaelin
Member
Thanks Omega,
If you or anyone is in the Seattle Area, perhaps we can camp out for CV when it hits and cause a ruckus.
If you or anyone is in the Seattle Area, perhaps we can camp out for CV when it hits and cause a ruckus.
Creating Side-scrollers on the 3DS is harder!
Take it from me, I worked with the hardware! Anyone that attempts it is doing it very deliberately. We were shocked by this, as it was the first time that in our history of development that side-scrolling games wasn't marginally easier to pull off.
The hardware excels at 3rd person roaming in smaller linked together environments.
3DS hardware wants things like Resident Evil Room to room type games.
Maybe you would have been better off using sprites?
Ziophaelin
Member
3DS has no 2D capability like the NDS did. It handles texture pipelines totally different too. So even if you see something on the 3DS that "looks" 2D they apply animated textures to polygon quads or other 3D shapes which gets very expensive. Weird problem to have Games that are 2D in the store are emulated and very small memory wise.
Games that are 2D in the store are emulated and very small memory wise.3DS has no 2D capability like the NDS did. It handles texture pipelines totally different too. So even if you see something on the 3DS that "looks" 2D they apply animated textures to polygon quads or other 3D shapes which gets very expensive. Weird problem to have
2D sprite games have gone by like the dodo !!!
sounds like nintendo sacrfice 2d capabilities for more 3d graphics capabilities
3DS has no 2D capability like the NDS did. It handles texture pipelines totally different too. So even if you see something on the 3DS that "looks" 2D they apply animated textures to polygon quads or other 3D shapes which gets very expensive. Weird problem to have
This makes me sad
Isn't that how the PSone handled 2D games?
Ziophaelin
Member
Yah pretty much.
GhostTrick
Banned
So basically, DS would be better at handling 2D than 3DS ? That sounds crazy !
Pikmindictator
Member
3DS has no 2D capability like the NDS did. It handles texture pipelines totally different too. So even if you see something on the 3DS that "looks" 2D they apply animated textures to polygon quads or other 3D shapes which gets very expensive. Weird problem to have
Isn't that how you would do a 2D game in openGL? And another question. By expensive do you mean that it is less efficient than previous Nintendo handhelds where you would have special memory for sprites and backgrounds etc?
3DS has no 2D capability like the NDS did. It handles texture pipelines totally different too. So even if you see something on the 3DS that "looks" 2D they apply animated textures to polygon quads or other 3D shapes which gets very expensive. Weird problem to have
Ah, okay. That does seem odd--I mean, the 3DS's resolution is just barely bigger than that of the regular DS, did they really think the demand for sprite-based games would peter off just because of stereoscopic 3D?
Anyway, I bought Shinobi at launch and it's obvious that you guys put a lot of love into it and have a lot of respect for the franchise--I just wish I could stand looking at it for long enough to beat it. Are you and the rest of the core Shinobi team still with Griptonite?
RockmanWhore
Member
Nintendo killed 2D T_T
I guess IGA was right when he said the DS was the last bastion of 2D gaming ;(
Code of Princess, Mickey, and Adventure Time look pretty fucking 2d to me.
Ziophaelin
Member
@MUWANdo
Nope, Taron and I left the company and formed our own indie studio in Feb this year. (Crazy Viking Studios) our first game is about 40% done and hitting kickstarter on Monday so we can wrap it up with out getting evicted hopefully, lol.
Thanks for the compliment, while we were making Shinobi the hardware specs for the 3DS were a moving target. Such is the way it goes when you make any game for new hardware before its out.
Nope, Taron and I left the company and formed our own indie studio in Feb this year. (Crazy Viking Studios) our first game is about 40% done and hitting kickstarter on Monday so we can wrap it up with out getting evicted hopefully, lol.
Thanks for the compliment, while we were making Shinobi the hardware specs for the 3DS were a moving target. Such is the way it goes when you make any game for new hardware before its out.
Ziophaelin
Member
... nope, Chuck Testa.
3D but with tricks to make some or all look 2D, we use to do that a lot on the NDS too. Princess and the Frog was one of them. 3D game that looked 2D.
IrishNinja
Member
forgive my ignorance here, and i liked your example of this being how 2D was done on PSX (think that was you!), but...if this is how things were done on the NDS, why is it more problematic on the 3DS? the change in tech makes doing the same thing on a higher platform that much more prohibitive, or does the lack of a simple 2D design option do that, or...? appreciate whatever you can say here!
GhostTrick
Banned
Sounds weird ! I hope it won't avoid 3DS to have 2D games, and Castlevania to be back to 2D Metroidvania.
@MUWANdo
Nope, Taron and I left the company and formed our own indie studio in Feb this year. (Crazy Viking Studios) our first game is about 40% done and hitting kickstarter on Monday so we can wrap it up with out getting evicted hopefully, lol.
Thanks for the compliment, while we were making Shinobi the hardware specs for the 3DS were a moving target. Such is the way it goes when you make any game for new hardware before its out.
Cool! Be sure to post a thread here once it's ready!
Not true, there are almost twice as many pixels on 3DS upper screen as on a DS screen.
I think when he said that "3DS has no 2D capability like the NDS did," he meant that the DS did have dedicated 2D-generating hardware, and that the 3DS doesn't. Not that the 3DS, like the DS, doesn't have 2D hardware.
According to Wikipedia's DS specs...
Very well put.
3DS' top screen is essentially 400x240, which isn't a whole lot bigger than the DS' 256x192 screen, and isn't even as big as the PSP's screen (480x272).
Sure, but in absolute terms it's a minuscule increase in resolution, which is what I was getting at initially. It's not gonna drastically change what is or isn't possible re: 2D sprites/pixel art, so it seems odd that there wouldn't be provisions for sprite-based games in the 3DS hardware that operate in a similar fashion to the DS. Whatever.
(
also when you said "nearly double" I thought you were talking about the 800x240 stereoscopy thing, and not the actual pixel count which would have been the obvious first guess. My bad.
The DS had actual tile and sprite hardware, which it inherited from the GBA. It's a tiny bit "easier" to make 2D games with those, since programmers usually have to write small 2D "engines" that mimic the sprite/tile concept when working on pure polygon-based hardware.
It's absolutely normal for the 3DS to not have an old-school 2D hardware: the last console to have such hardware before the DS and GBA was the Sega Saturn. The PSOne, the Dreamcast, the PS2, GameCube, Xbox, PSP, etc, etc have pure polygon-based video chips which have no idea what a sprite is. Also, x86 PCs never had sprite/tile chips. The only reason the DS ended up having one was due to it being designed as a super set of the GBA, with GBA BC in mind.
Even on the DS, many games actually used polygons for 2D graphics, since they offered many additional capabilities over sprites and tiles: per-vertex vertex color tinting, alpha-channels, compressed images, unique color palette for each texture and the ability to use more than 128 sprites.
It's absolutely normal for the 3DS to not have an old-school 2D hardware: the last console to have such hardware before the DS and GBA was the Sega Saturn. The PSOne, the Dreamcast, the PS2, GameCube, Xbox, PSP, etc, etc have pure polygon-based video chips which have no idea what a sprite is. Also, x86 PCs never had sprite/tile chips. The only reason the DS ended up having one was due to it being designed as a super set of the GBA, with GBA BC in mind.
Even on the DS, many games actually used polygons for 2D graphics, since they offered many additional capabilities over sprites and tiles: per-vertex vertex color tinting, alpha-channels, compressed images, unique color palette for each texture and the ability to use more than 128 sprites.
In that regard I agree with you. I was only responding to the part I bolded. I think 3DS screen is a perfect fit for 2D games and it's the first portable console from Nintendo with a resolution to match NES and SNES games.
Ziophaelin
Member
This^ , We did that often. Correct, the 3DS does not have dedicated 2D hardware in it, like the NDS did. The system is constructed to be highly optimized to do a very specific way of handling 3D graphics bandwidth. Much has to be preloaded. I know... totally silly right, because that behavior you would expect from a slow loading CD or UMD or what not and completely contradicts the benefit of having games on a cart. Alas... that is how Nintendo decided to do it
Oh and by the way... don't forget that on the 3DS, even though the screen is 400 x 240 all the games are rendering at 800 x 240 because of the way the 3D works (regardless of 3D on/off) (not including most emulated DSiware)
I'm guessing is part of the security architecture of the system. Plz call me out if I'm totally out of base.The system is constructed to be highly optimized to do a very specific way of handling 3D graphics bandwidth. Much has to be preloaded. I know... totally silly right, because that behavior you would expect from a slow loading CD or UMD or what not and completely contradicts the benefit of having games on a cart. Alas... that is how Nintendo decided to do it
3DS has no 2D capability like the NDS did. It handles texture pipelines totally different too. So even if you see something on the 3DS that "looks" 2D they apply animated textures to polygon quads or other 3D shapes which gets very expensive. Weird problem to have
The thought of this makes me really sad, why do I get the feeling that we're never going to get another Metroid 2D game all of a sudden. I mean I don't know sales numbers for Other M, but it's so much more expensive to make one nowadays I don't see Nintendo wanting to put the budget or time for it.
Needless to say cool to hear some of the actual real life aspects behind development. Wish we got more of this real talk glad to have you on GAF.
I got a chance to play the game at E3. Seems like it has potential. I'm assuming the framerate problems were because the game was an early build?Hey guys, Kris the Lead Designer/ aka Overlord on Shinobi. I just wanted to say thanks for the nice things you guys have said about the game and for the criticism too, it keeps me on my toes.
I too am pretty excited about CV on the 3DS!
... oh and this is my first post on NeoGaf. I have enjoyed reading these forums for a long time.