-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Cavaliers have traded Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante ii, & pick
- Thread starter FZZ
- Start date
friskykillface
Banned
Nets will be better with NBA champion Mozgawd
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Salt is real.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Salt is real.
On the other hand, Isaiah's new team has a great shot of being in the Finals again next year, Gobert's team has...
johancruijff
Banned
Jay Shadow
Member
Yet the team he's on now still has more than the Jazz.
Salt is real.
Jmanunknown
Member
This is a good trade for the Cavs future but this trade actually makes the cavs worse in the present unless they flip the new assets for better players. The goal is to beat the warriors and Isiah Thomas vs the warriors is a recipe for disaster.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Short of IT's hip injury being a complete mess, I don't see how flipping Kyrie for IT and Crowder makes them demonstrably worse in the short term. IT was better than Kyrie last year. Do people realize that?
Hyperactivity
Banned
IT was flat out the better player last year, and unless his injury is really bad I'd guess he would be the better player this year too.
What's more, IT has a proven record of being able to carry a team, compared to the Cavs with any non-Lebron lineup, even ones including Love and Kyrie, falling apart.
I suspect IT will face a similar situation to Lowry - difficulty finding suitors can easily make his contract offers less than max. The one major difference is that similar to Lowry establishing himself in Toronto, IT established himself in Boston, but now doesn't have any drive that might have existed to stay in that same city
I wouldn't be surprised if dealing Crowder was more digestible to Boston due to deciding they want more minutes for Brown and Tatum
Another aspect of this that I like is that I can easily imagine IT helping that Cavs locker room a ton.
Top 10 or so?
Harden/Durant/Westbrook/LeBron/Curry/Kawhi
CP3/Davis/Wall/Paul George/Butler
Kyrie is on the tier below, with KAT, IT, Lillard, I'm.
Though, tbh, I've discovered ever since the Kyrie trade rumors started that Kyrie is one of the toughest and most controversial players to rank
Tbf to Boston, I would bet on Kyrie staying. He still has the spotlight, is on a competitive team, gets to be the main star (if you think Hayward is better, that's fine, but Hayward doesn't seem to be the type that would necessarily get in the way of Kyrie being the main guy, even if it's the difference between 1A and 1B), etc. I doubt Boston makes this trade without the expectation that they will give a 27 year old Kyrie the max
You mean the 50+ point playoff game against the wizards Isaiah? I mean, asides from the Cavs series, where he was injured (an injury he played through the previous round), what bad games did he have last posy-season?
They have zero chance for the next three years any way, so.
YEah. This team is better. Crowder can be what shumpert should've been. And if IT is healthy he's just as good as kyrie if not better in the scoring end. Plus they'll have derrick rose off the bench. Cavs are better this year. Still lose to the Warriors though
Randolph Freelander
Member
Not by the time the playoffs roll around. That's QT-with-the-fam time in the Rose household.
NYR
Member
It isn't even close. IT is better and a better team player, Crybaby Kyrie couldn't even talk to his teammates in the playoffs because he has small dick envy compared to LeBron, he's a cancer the team doesn't need.
Throw in the 1st rounder, it is a killer deal for the Cavs.
Khaos Kontrol
Banned
Photo of LeBron welcoming Isaiah to the team.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Photo of LeBron welcoming Isaiah to the team.
It's true, though.
GitarooMan
Member
Isaiah was gone next year anyway and Boston has a good chance of keeping Irving around. I like the deal at first blush for Boston
Byakuya769
Member
I didnt realize he was more efficient this year. Higher effective FG% and similar assist to turnover ratio.
Thomas is going to have a hard time covering Steph
Ninja Scooter
Member
I'll take the larger sample size over the small sample size if we are evaluating players. IT was injured in the playoffs last year anyway.
NYR
Member
Yeah, you mean his second time in the playoffs ever? I wonder how he got there because he was a nothing burger when it was on him to carry the team. He is a team killer who hogged the ball because he can't talk to his teammates.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Considering that you had either a grumpy Kyrie who wants to leave vs ?, I think Cleveland did well.
And nobody looks good against GS. Maybe the first dream team
Hyperactivity
Banned
Both are god awful on D, so it probably won't make much difference
Crowder is exactly the type of player the Cavs need to have a shot against the Warriors though.
And they get the nets first round pick?
What a fleecing.
NYR
Member
The truth. WTF is your pointless driveby post?
Randolph Freelander
Member
Yeah, shame on 19-21 year old Kyrie for not being ready to carry a team after playing 11 games in college and with Byron Scott and Mike Brown has his head coaches.
We'll see how he does with a few extra seasons under his belt.
(Yes, I acknowledge that the Cavs were a mess with LeBron off the floor.)
They'll no doubt hide him on someone else (but who?). I'd be more worried about GSW hiding Steph on JR and Klay guarding IT.
Not saying it's not a good deal for the Cavs overall, just that specific match up that I'm curious about.
Great trade for both teams IMO. Cleveland managed to get some nice immediate value back for Kyrie for LeBron's last run in CLE without having to take on anything that will completely muck up the inevitable rebuild once he leaves, and with a solid 1st round pick to boot to start the process. Player's openly requesting trades tends to fuck things up for their (ex) team, but the Cavs made out well, all things considered.
Boston gets a top tier scoring option whose contract situation and age lineup very well with the team's needs for the next 3-4 seasons. That Nets pick and Crowder have always been there to flip for a high-caliber all-star and that's what they got.
Boston gets a top tier scoring option whose contract situation and age lineup very well with the team's needs for the next 3-4 seasons. That Nets pick and Crowder have always been there to flip for a high-caliber all-star and that's what they got.
Vicetrailia
Member
Sounds like a good trade for both teams. Without LeBron the cavs blow up anyway. Cavs have a good chance with Crowder now and got their offensive substitute. Boston gets a young great player.
Jmanunknown
Member
Isiah thomas was a better regular season player but Kyrie was a better playoff player last year and kyrie is a better defender.
GitarooMan
Member
People get that Kyrie is 25 and IT is 29 and the history of sub 6 foot players age 30+ is not great? I'm not saying IT is bad I'm just saying Crowder and 1st were necessary to balance the deal. It's not some kind of robbery. Re: Crowder, from the Celtics perspective they have Hayward, Brown, and Tatum long term so he isn't a necessary piece for them.
NYR
Member
18 year old LeBron in year 1 gave the team a 18-game W/L improvement. They made the playoffs by the 3rd year. Kyrie did piss all when it was "his team" - zero improvement and he didn't make the players around him better.
Milk Brown seems to be a pretty decent coach, last I saw him he was coaching a championship team and got a ring this summer.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
who the fuck are you again?
He was a luxury for Boston but he's going to be huge for Cleveland.
Its hard to say how necessary they were to balance a deal because nobody knows what was going on behind the scenes. But it was fair to say there wasn't much leverage from either team, Kyrie wanted out and the Cavs weren't exactly hiding the fact they weren't going to keep IT. I think Boston overpaid but they know more about IT's health than anyone else. But Boston's record without IT and Kyrie's performance without Lebron aren't great for optimism in Boston imo
Randolph Freelander
Member
Ninja Scooter
Member
IT was injured in the playoffs so it's not really a fair comparison, and Kyrie is a garbage defender. Like, i'm not sure what metric you'd use to determine that Kyrie is better than IT. He's trash.
The more I think about how divisive divisive this trade is, its probably a fair trade.
Boston was really in a tough spot. Obviously they have youth and potential but it wouldn't align with IT's prime at all who wanted the max. By the time a 2018 draft pick develops, it doesnt even align with Heyward's prime.
As great a position as people like to claim Boston's in, its not a perfect alignment. That said, this doesnt solve all their issues. Now you have another tweener #1 option and you bailed on 2018 pick. But just because its not perfect doesn't mean you shouldn't have done it.
Now it puts them all on the same age level, and suddenly the team is cohesive whether they can win now or not. And Kyrie will still have trade value in a year or so, or if you resign him. You can start a longer relationship with him.
Of course, I watched him go at the Warriors one-on-one stupidly in important moments. He changes the dynamic of the team to more iso-ball. Kyrie's also injury prone. But none the less its a move to make this teams future more cohesive. I still think they should have gotten Jimmy and kept IT, but that's in the past. I just feel like Jimmy's impact on the game is still developing, and his and IT's grit is comparable. Where as we all know what Kyrie is at this point, younger or not.
But in regards to this trade exclusively? I get it.
Boston was really in a tough spot. Obviously they have youth and potential but it wouldn't align with IT's prime at all who wanted the max. By the time a 2018 draft pick develops, it doesnt even align with Heyward's prime.
As great a position as people like to claim Boston's in, its not a perfect alignment. That said, this doesnt solve all their issues. Now you have another tweener #1 option and you bailed on 2018 pick. But just because its not perfect doesn't mean you shouldn't have done it.
Now it puts them all on the same age level, and suddenly the team is cohesive whether they can win now or not. And Kyrie will still have trade value in a year or so, or if you resign him. You can start a longer relationship with him.
Of course, I watched him go at the Warriors one-on-one stupidly in important moments. He changes the dynamic of the team to more iso-ball. Kyrie's also injury prone. But none the less its a move to make this teams future more cohesive. I still think they should have gotten Jimmy and kept IT, but that's in the past. I just feel like Jimmy's impact on the game is still developing, and his and IT's grit is comparable. Where as we all know what Kyrie is at this point, younger or not.
But in regards to this trade exclusively? I get it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
So real question: is Boston a playoff team right now? Didn't they dump or let their starting 5 + 6th man walk? Or something like that? What do they have outside of KI and GH now that can help them compete for the 8th seed?
Ninja Scooter
Member
THeir ages aren't really that relevant to the value of the deal. The Celtics didn't trade for 7 years of Kyrie. They traded for 2. And they traded away one year of IT, not 5 max years. Crowder and the BKN pick is a lot to pay to split that difference.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
This deal seems way worse for Boston than the rumored deal the Bulls were going to make with the Celtics for Butler.
Minny only gave up LaVine, Dunn, and a pick swap for Butler! The Nets 1st rounder and Crowder/Zizec should have beat that!
Randolph Freelander
Member
Kyrie isn't great on D, but "they" say IT is like literally the worst defender in the league by the numbers. Are "they" wrong?
(Don't ask me who "they" are.)