Support NeoGAF

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

That's ridiculous. We should not pay a cent for people like him to come here.

Yep. we should let him wander alone and get killed by anti-iranis and pro-americans , so that in return Iran blow up US while US blows iran for blowing them up, and blow a few neighbouring countries for the heck of it. That way, the neighbouring countries will also start blowing others up, and all that'll be left is Canada...

 

[The Stealth Fox]

Yep. we should let him wander alone and get killed by anti-iranis and pro-americans , so that in return Iran blow up US while US blows iran for blowing them up, and blow a few neighbouring countries for the heck of it. That way, the neighbouring countries will also start blowing others up, and all that'll be left is Canada...

oh dear god no! not canada!

 

[Branduil]

Yep. we should let him wander alone and get killed by anti-iranis and pro-americans , so that in return Iran blow up US while US blows iran for blowing them up, and blow a few neighbouring countries for the heck of it. That way, the neighbouring countries will also start blowing others up, and all that'll be left is Canada...

He's a big guy, he can pay for his own security.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Amazingly long and angry thread for something that in two weeks everybody will have forgotten ever happened.

And this isn't even the thread about him visiting Ground Zero which I thought would be the more contentious one...

 

[The Stealth Fox]

Amazingly long and angry thread for something that in two weeks everybody will have forgotten ever happened.

If we used the length of time it would take for a significant event to be forgotten by the American populace as a means to determine how much should discussion should be generated in a thread about that event, then wouldn't there be 0 replies to every thread talking about a significant event?

We Americans are pretty forgetful pepole you know...

 

[Stoney Mason]

If we used the length of time it would take for a significant event to be forgotten by the American populace as a means to determine how much should discussion should be generated in a thread about that event, then wouldn't there be 0 replies to every thread talking about a significant event?

We Americans are pretty forgetful pepole you know...

Perhaps but I guess I just don't view this as a significant event. It's certainly an interesting trainwreck so I get the appeal in that sense but nothing is really happening here as far as I can see. Just a lot of people getting riled up over nothing. This seems like more of a media event than something actually happening but maybe I'm just sleepy.

 

[The Stealth Fox]

I understand. I feel somewhat the same way too, don't even understand why people are flailing their arms.

 

[fart]

DIPLOMATIC RECIPROCITY YOU FUCKING RETARDS

 

[APF]

Amazingly long and angry thread for something that in two weeks everybody will have forgotten ever happened.

Yes, but the lengthy arguments are more about people wanting to troll me, than people actually having a contrary perspective they wish to discuss. IE: almost every political thread, where, when we go back over things, folks realize that oh yeah, he didn't actually say anything objectionable. Fascinating. Perhaps it's low blood sugar levels.

 

[Y2Kev]

His request to lay a wreath at ground zero, site of the World Trade Center 2001 terror attacks, was denied by city officials and condemned by politicians. After the September 11 attacks, hundreds of young Iranians held a series of candlelight vigils in Tehran.

I didn't know that about the vigils.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/23/us.iran.ap/index.html

 

[Pellham]

If there's one thing that's great about Ahmadinejad it's the jackets he wears. They're all awesome. And he has some great photo moments too.

:lol I hate Ahmadinejad but those photos + captions crack me up.

 

[Killamangiro]

He doesn't call the Holocaust a myth, he says that it has been spiced up (kind of like what you've done in your post above) so that there was justification for the creation of a state on other people's land because people felt bad for what the Jews had gone through.

He doesn't call fall the elimination of Israel as a state, he calls for the elimination of the current "Zionist regime."

As Dies Irae pointed out and as I have pointed out previously, Jews in Iran have many rights e.g. their own representative in parliament even though there are only 10,000 of them in a population of around 60 million.

There has been no proof that Iran want to create nuclear weapons (the prove we have is similar to the "proof" that Iraq had WMDs). Sure they want nuclear power, but thats their right to do so as according to the NPT.

I purposely went a bit over the top in defending Ahmadinejad and Iran in this post. Maybe this will incite a reply from you, whereas you've been avoiding my posts in this thread so far.

Edit: @ your post above about him "coyly toying with rhetoric" read my post from a page back:

WORD!

 

[FightyF]

FlightyF: You've never actually met me... so... I'm not sure how to address your personal venom.

It wasn't personal, at all. Just an observation.

Also, I didn't actually debate the translation... so... I think much of your post actually just verifies what I was saying, that you have no idea what I'm talking about and are trying to attack straw men.

There are no straw men. You said, clearly:

who toy with the idea of a nuclear holocaust

In reference to him.

Don't deny it, you said it. There is no straw man, that is exactly what you said.

I'd also like to mention that, when these stories first came to press, your reaction was finding the rhetoric far more serious, and far more alarming, than concerns about Iran's nascent nuclear program.

Of course, he's coming down to discuss his views, which I've stated in my first post have been distorted by Western media. I've demonstrated this very clearly in the one example I gave. The one you attempted to dispute, for some dumb reason.

So... it appears as though you have a lot of soul searching to do... you know, in your black tormented heart, so full of rage and hate. Good luck with all that.

None of my post was hateful. It was all just an observation.

Stealth fox and fighty f, you both are the most annoying/ignorant/ad hominem abusive/straw men abusive/childish/linear GAFfers I've ever encountered.

Ok, maybe this is a joke post and I don't have to respond to this... :lol ...but if it's serious, I'll make this response brief. Show me an example of ignorance on my part, in this thread. Show me an example of a straw man I've made in this thread. I've been clear that my observation on APF was completely seperate from this discussion, if you consider that an ad hominem attack, I suggest you look it up in the dictionary again.

APF was basically making some points of this subject

He was making outlandish claims. He was trying to argue a Persian translation with people who understand Farsi. I'm surprised that you don't see how ridiculous that is.

but instead you and fightyf personally attack him with ad hominems and childish mockery. The both of you make this evident in your replies.

I completely addressed his "points", ie. his failure to understand Persian, in a clear fashion. As I said, the observation I made was completely on the side.

The both you shouldn't even debate on any particular subject since you guys suck at reading comprehension, logic, and making sense out of an argument. Is there anyone here in GAF that can dissect someones argument and make some sense out of it as well as take valid criticisms from their own arguemnts instead resorting to personal attacks as a reaction?

We had 5-6 people counter his "points", and he still didn't get it. Again, it wasn't a personal attack, it was clearly an observation. I never called him a "douchebag" and such, which he repeatedly called me in this thread. Interesting that you don't comment on that, hypocrite.

If someone doesn't understand something so basic, after having it explained to them so many times, it's clear that there is something wrong with that person.

 

[APF]

I love how FlightyF owns himself with every post. Keep on dancing, tough guy.

 

[fart]

you are completely fucking delusional, APF.

you're also a DOUCHEBAG, and a totally fucking linear straw man, whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.

 

[FightyF]

I love how FlightyF owns himself with every post. Keep on dancing, tough guy.

You keep claiming "straw man", yet after repeated opportunities...you never clarify your argument. The only owning here happened to yourself, from a whole handful of posters.

Your claim that Ahmedinejad was hinting at nuclear genocide. Completely false.

Your claim that his reference to a "regime" equals a reference to people of a particular religion, also false.

Your claim that changing a regime involves genocide, false again.

I'm being extremely clear and to the point. You've been dodging specific points and then accuse Mandark of doing what you've been doing all along.

I'm also noting that you've repeatedly stated "FlightyF" in this thread, is that supposed to witty? :lol

Again, it's not just this thread...every other single thread I've read with you replying to it...exact same story.

 

[APF]

No, seriously; I'll be serious for a moment: you either haven't been reading my posts, or you just don't understand what I'm getting at. Relax for a second. Calm down. Stop thinking about "neocon talk radio" or whatever bullshit you have swimming around in your mind. Have a sip of juice. Then start back with the post where I say, this is where your mental breakdown started. Then look at the post where I say, I'm not debating your translation. Then try to reconcile that point with your attacks against me, where... you say I'm... debating the translation. I think you'll be surprised at the result! And all because you thought before you vomited on to your keyboard. Won't that be nice?

 

[Mejilan]

Wow, I cannot believe this is still going on. How the hell is Ahmadinejad's appearance supposed to compare to this entertainment?

 

[APF]

I want to hear more people talk about the importance of politely inviting folks to voice dissent, because of how important that is!

 

[Y2Kev]

Wow, I cannot believe this is still going on. How the hell is Ahmadinejad's appearance supposed to compare to this entertainment?

10,000 protesters.

No access to center campus without an ID.

It's going to be quite entertaining.

 

[Mejilan]

10,000 protesters.

No access to center campus without an ID.

It's going to be quite entertaining.

Exactly my point.

 

[FightyF]

Then look at the post where I say, I'm not debating your translation. Then try to reconcile that point with your attacks against me, where... you say I'm... debating the translation. I think you'll be surprised at the result! And all because you thought before you vomited on to your keyboard. Won't that be nice?

Right after I posted the translation, in a clear and concise fashion ("[T]his regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history"), you replied with:

Oh, so the Jews only need to be removed from history, not the map. Got it. "

When I was clear in posting that translation. It never said Jews.

GSG Flash responded, "How you got "Jews" from "Zionist regime" I can never understand."

And you replied:

First off, here is Flighty's translation:

"[T]his regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history"

Note what isn't there, the word "Zionist" which you believe was part of this quote. No, it did not say, "Zionist regime," nor did it explicitly say, "Jews." But how can the Jewish rule of the Jewish state be eliminated from the pages of history, without... killing the Jews? Simply invade their country and forcibly remove them?

Clearly debating the quote. You repeatedly misconstrue "regime" into meaning a people of a particular religion, and then claim that a regime's rule can only be ended by ethnic cleansing.

Whether you SAID you were not debating the translation I posted is irrelevant, because that's exactly what you DID.

All that "calm down" silliness...was that all for yourself? What that some sort of pep talk to yourself before you came in with your "point"? Seems like a waste of energy to me, to type all that out.

 

[APF]

There's no hope for you.

 

[Phoenix]

No, they're just flapping their mouths, because they're not going to do that (unless something completely drastic occurs). The point is, all this rhetoric is for political and diplomatic gain, and potentially to provoke Israel into preemptive action.


edit: I also totally disagree that the US would, indeed, nuke Iran in retaliation to a nuclear strike against Israel.

Israel can take care of itself, and we absolutely would not have any reason or authority to release our nuclear arsenal if Iran attacked/nuked Israel. We could bomb the crap out of the country several times over, but we would have no legal or moral authority to launch a nuclear response since we weren't attacked ourselves.

 

[Phoenix]

are we that insecure as a country that we should worry that Ahmadinejad visits ground zero or gives some university lecture?

Apparently so. I'm disgusted that Americans are protesting against STUDENTS (just saw it on TV) who want to go and listen to the man! For a country that has freedom of speech as one of its founding principles - we've fallen a long way. I mean shit wouldn't you want to be able to hear for yourself what this man really believes and question him instead of getting his message filtered into CNN soundbytes? I mean fuck - what the hell is happening to this country.

 

[Suikoguy]

I may think that Ahmadinejad is wrong about several things, but if he wants to make a speech and be asked questions, then so what?

This, however
http://www.nysun.com/article/63232

Is about as wrong as Ahmadinejad,

In an interview with The New York Sun, the speaker of the Assembly, Sheldon Silver, said lawmakers, outraged over Columbia's insistence on allowing the Iranian president to speak at its World Leaders Forum, would consider reducing capital aid and other financial assistance to the school.

Seriously, WTF?

 

[Eric P]

I may think that Ahmadinejad is wrong about several things, but if he wants to make a speech and be asked questions, then so what?

This, however
http://www.nysun.com/article/63232

Is about as wrong as Ahmadinejad,



Seriously, WTF?

wow.

so i guess the machines did their jobs quite well.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Ridiculous. Do people even know what they're protesting for? Suddenly that episode of American Dad where the Iranians move into the neighbourhood is a whole lot less funny. People are every bit that fucking stupid.

Someone should go along and interview them.

WTF at them considering reducing funding to the school. What a fucking disgrace. It's pathetic.

I don't even get people complaining about his body guard detail -- that privilidge of protection would be offered to any high profile delegate of foreign countries. It's only because it's Iran that people give a shit. If it was the UK PM, it wouldn't even be newsworthy.

The manipulation of the populace, the defaming of an entire nation, has all been way too swift. It's actually scary. Someone needs to go along to those protests and ask every idiot there, what exactly, Ahmadinejad / Iran have done wrong.

"He's clearly responsible for the deaths of Americans both in Iraq and elsewhere. And he remains as much a threat to the world as anybody today. I don't understand what this dean and Columbia are thinking," Mr. Silver said.

When did that become clear? As willing to believe it might be happening as I am, no-one has produced any concrete evidence of Iranian state complicity in attacks in Iraq. There's simply no proof its happening. Yet its clear? Silver is a fucking idiot.

"It's not going to go away just because this episode ends. Columbia University has to know … that they will be penalized," an assemblyman of Brooklyn, Dov Hikind, who also attended the rally, said. The lawmaker said Mr. Ahmadinejad should be arrested when he sets foot on campus.

On what charge? Another idiot.

 

[APF]

For a country that has freedom of speech as one of its founding principles - we've fallen a long way.

Again, where's my speaking engagement? "Freedom of speech" does not obligate an institution to invite everyone to speak; it only obligates the government to refrain from restricting speech.

I mean shit wouldn't you want to be able to hear for yourself what this man really believes and question him instead of getting his message filtered into CNN soundbytes?

Not particularly. Outside the gawking factor, seeing a current head of state is IMO overrated. What do you think we're gonna get out of him? Is he going to speak frankly about his country's nuclear program? their actions in Iraq? his Holocaust denial? Unlikely. As I said before, we'll get trite criticism regarding US foreign policy and our support of Israel. Criticism that is not unknown to the average Columbia student.

 

[mckmas8808]

Apparently so. I'm disgusted that Americans are protesting against STUDENTS (just saw it on TV) who want to go and listen to the man! For a country that has freedom of speech as one of its founding principles - we've fallen a long way. I mean shit wouldn't you want to be able to hear for yourself what this man really believes and question him instead of getting his message filtered into CNN soundbytes? I mean fuck - what the hell is happening to this country.

Protesting is apart of freedom of speech. Don't forget that Phoenix.

 

[Mandark]

I never got a response to 199/202, did I? Ah well.

Just checking in!

 

[APF]

Oh, were you getting at something with those posts? Why not just say what you were getting at and stop playing games? Don't tell me you're afraid to speak your mind! That's not the Mandark we've all grown to love.

 

[nelsonroyale]

good move....hear what others have to say...is this, some progress in attitude..?

oh, hell, a new level of stupidity is reached....really US has some tight stuff, but the society really does a have a sizeable chunk of all kinds of mind freaks...... .....


......................

 

[bob_arctor]

My wife works @ Columbia doing real estate. She's doing more active "harm" to our citizens, specifically those in Harlem, than Crazy Short Guy has been given credit for. *shrug*

 

[Link1110]

I haven't weighed in about this guy, but all I have to say is this:

We hate this guy because of his country's system of government. Wasn't Bush blasting certain people for thinking like that (Only with the situations reversed) about umm... 6 years ago?

 

[Learn2read]

Our media sucks. Take this exchange from 60 Minutes. Newflash media, the American people hate President Bush:

PELLEY: What trait do you admire in President Bush?

AHMADINEJAD: Again, I have a very frank tone. I think that President Bush needs to correct his ways.

PELLEY: What do you admire about him?

AHMADEINEJAD: He should respect the American people.

PELLEY: Is there anything? Any trait?

AHMADINEJAD: As an American citizen, tell me what trait do you admire?

PELLEY: Well, Mr. Bush is, without question, a very religious man, for example, as you are. I wonder if there's anything that you've seen in President Bush that you admire.

AHMADEINEJAD: Well, is Mr. Bush a religious man?

PELLEY: Very much so. As you are.

AHMADEINEJAD: What religion, please tell me, tells you as a follower of that religion to occupy another country and kill its people? Please tell me. Does Christianity tell its followers to do that? Judaism, for that matter? Islam, for that matter? What prophet tells you to send 160,000 troops to another country, kill men, women, and children? You just can't wear your religion on your sleeve or just go to church. You should be truthfully religious. Religion tells us all that you should respect the property, the life of different people. Respect human rights. Love your fellow man. And once you hear that a person has been killed, you should be saddened. You shouldn't sit in a room, a dark room, and hatch plots. And because of your plots, many thousands of people are killed. Having said that, we respect the American people. And because of our respect for the American people, we respectfully talk with President Bush. We have a respectful tone. But having said that, I don't think that that is a good definition of religion. Religion is love for your fellow man, brotherhood, telling the truth.

PELLEY: I take it you can't think of anything you like about President Bush.

AHMADEINEJAD: Well, I'm not familiar with the gentleman's private life. Maybe in his private life he is very kind or a determined man. I'm not aware of that. I base my judgment on what I see in his public life. Having said that, I think that President Bush can behave much better. There were golden opportunities for President Bush. He should have used them better.

Ahmadeinjad may be an idiot, but he danced around our even more idiotic media.

 

[Stoney Mason]

PELLEY: What trait do you admire in President Bush?

:lol

I can only imagine this was followed up by "When did you stop beating your wife?"

 

[APF]

Yeah, I don't really see what the purpose of asking that question is, other than some namby-pamby lets bring people together nonsense.

 

[Guileless]

'Media' is plural. Scott Pelley is one reporter trying to get a politician to say something interesting other than repeating stock anti-American platitudes that we've heard a million times. Which he failed to do. I don't understand the basis for your objections.

 

[Mandark]

As someone who feels he is aggressively misunderstood, I just figured you'd welcome an opportunity to clarify your views.

I'm asking because I want to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Stoney Mason]

'Media' is plural. Scott Pelley is one reporter trying to get a politician to say something interesting other than repeating stock anti-American platitudes that we've heard a million times. Which he failed to do. I don't understand the basis for your objections.

He failed.

 

[APF]

Mandark: I don't think it "inherently" means that--there could be demographic reasons after reconciliation leading to the state no longer being "Jewish" for example--but such an idea was not suggested in his speech.

 

[Y2Kev]

It's going to be insane. It's already filling up.

I'm going out before my next class to get some photos.

 

[Guileless]

I wrote in my post that he failed based on that exchange (I didn't see 60 Minutes so maybe there were more interesting exchanges, but I would be surprised.) But that's the nature of an interview conducted through translation with a savvy diplomat or politician. Nine times out of 10 it will be virtually pointless and you will hear nothing newsworthy or interesting. The only attraction is the gawk factor that APF referenced.

Pelley was trying to get him to say something unrehearsed and off-the-cuff to avoid that, but he just went back to the boilerplate stuff. That's not an indictment of the American media in general, just the reality of the interview form.

 

[Mandark]

APF: Cool.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I wrote in my post that he failed based on that exchange (I didn't see 60 Minutes so maybe there were more interesting exchanges, but I would be surprised.) But that's the nature of an interview conducted through translation with a savvy diplomat or politician. Nine times out of 10 it will be virtually pointless and you will hear nothing newsworthy or interesting. The only attraction is the gawk factor that APF referenced.

Pelley was trying to get him to say something unrehearsed and off-the-cuff to avoid that, but he just went back to the boilerplate stuff. That's not an indictment of the American media in general, just the reality of the interview form.

I was mainly responding to the silliness of the question versus an indictment of our media in general. I'm sure Barbara Walters also thinks she is being off the cuff when she asks her dumb questions too. Not saying Barbara Walters is 60 minutes...

As far as a true indictment of the media though, the media (most especially TV) does a fine job of that by itself on a pretty much daily basis without me piling on.

 

[Guileless]

What is silly about the question? If he said something even vaguely complimentary about President Bush, it would have been novel and potentially interesting with some follow-up.

 

[Stoney Mason]

What is silly about the question? If he said something even vaguely complimentary about President Bush, it would have been novel and potentially interesting with some follow-up.

I'm not a fan of questions that beg an answer implicitly within them. They feel forced and elicit forced replies. Also I doubt he would have asked George Bush the same question.

Also for my interest what he admires about George Bush doesn't touch the core of the issue. He might as well ask how handsome does he think George Bush is as far as how it relates to the central conflict.

To be fair I haven't caught the whole interview on Youtube, however.

 

[ronito]

I remember a time when the US had an enemy that person was an enemy through and through to everyone.

 

[Y2Kev]

Some photos! Doesn't start until 1 but the libbies and neocos are already rallying!