• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Destiny |OT44| A Community in Discord

Mindlog

Member
I'm quite happy about the weapon change and I don't view at all through the lense of casual vs hardcore. Hell I've got something like 2500 hours. Year one had loot that was so fun to get that people saved their goddamn reactions. All of those weapons were static roll weapons (Mythoclast, Gjallarhorn, Fatebringer, etc).

To me, it's a lot more fun to be excited about the weapon itself, than it is to be relieved your hand cannon comes with rifled barrel. Hell even the main year 2 pve legendary people talk about is Hung Jury. And when they talk about it they're referring to the September 2015 vendor version (Torch, TT, Extended mag/HLS, Firefly). Now we can have weapons that are tailored for specific encounters and pve vs pvp.

I don't understand why this has anything to do with how "hardcore" someone plays the game. Fatebringer, Black Hammer, Gjallarhorn is the loadout of loadouts.
Some great points in there. My favorite PvE weapon based entirely on rolls was a Suros Dis-43 I bought from the Gunsmith. Every other time I checked weapon rolls it was for PvP. PvE weapons were always 'good enough' or not. The only time I really went out of my way to grind a weapon was for a Hopscotch Pilgrim and that lasted for about a week before it was nerfed. Never again.

I have many god roll weapons, but my favorite drop remains Black Hammer.
I bought Icebreaker from Xur.
I got Gjallarhorn a week before Xur sold the thing and told everyone not to buy it. Get Sunbreakers instead ��
I got Mythoclast my first try subbing in for someone at Atheon (my Gjallarhorn was finally used here.)
Fatebringer was a fun drop, but after so many tries I got two at the same time.

With one exception all of my memorable drops were fixed perk? I'll have to keep thinking on that. A poll of favorite drops would be pretty interesting.

Again, my favorite drop: Black Hammer
Crota wasn't on farm yet and taking him down was a bit of a challenge. Came out excited to try that weapon on every encounter I could.

Wait were all of my favorite drops year 1? Curious.
 

jviggy43

Member
1. I don't run it weekly unless I want the buff.

2. Again, I run Raids when I want to, for the content itself.

3. I play IB for the PvP.

4. I complete quests because that's literally the content in the game.

5. I actually want to see the encounter designs and how the lore is comprised in world.

But really, the answer to all those questions is that people do those things because it's what you do to play the game. Run dungeons, Do patrols, do Quests, do dailies, PvE, PvP... all of it is the meat of the game. It's what you do in the game. If you're not doing those things, you're not playing the game. You're not even guaranteed loot from doing the majority of the content.

"Loot games" are not the only games with loot. They're not the first game with loot. RPG's started all of that. Hell the term Loot as it's used in gaming comes from TTRPGs. So Cayde-6 mentioning loot does not mean the game is a loot game. Just a community meme reference.

I mean, people can play the game for whatever reason suits them. Maybe it's the way the game feels as a shooter. Maybe it's the lore. Maybe it's the PvP. Maybe it's the loot. All of those are perfectly valid reasons to play. But saying a game that's identifiably a Lite MMO (Even Bungie's term Shared-World Shooter hints at MMO conventions) is a Loot Game is like saying Warcraft 3 is a PvE MOBA.
The distinction youre making doesn't really have a lot to do with how these games function but more so that mmos contain loot mechanics but also offer additional content. Yes destiny is more of an mmo because it has more mmo mechanics but it never the less also contains a strong and fundamental loot foundation that as you mentioned is typical of other mmos.

Just because it also offers more than other games in the loot genre doesn't mean the game falls outside of that category.
 
The distinction youre making doesn't really have a lot to do with how these games function but more so that mmos contain loot mechanics but also offer additional content. Yes destiny is more of an mmo because it has more mmo mechanics but it never the less also contains a strong and fundamental loot foundation that as you mentioned is typical of other mmos.

Just because it also offers more than other games in the loot genre doesn't mean the game falls outside of that category.

Again, this is like saying Warcraft 3 is a PvE MOBA. Or like saying any game that offers any kind of Equipment upgrades is automatically a "Loot Game."

Loot Game wasn't considered a genre until games that focus primarily on complete loot randomization began getting called that colloquially. At the end of the day they're RPGs at the core. But once you start breaking down RPG's into separate sub-genre's simply having loot does not make a Loot Game. Otherwise they're all loot games. It's not enough to differentiate, so it's a poor metric to use alone to determine subgenre. It would be like calling every game where characters use swords, Sword Games.
 

Juan

Member
Again, this is like saying Warcraft 3 is a PvE MOBA. Or like saying any game that offers any kind of Equipment upgrades is automatically a "Loot Game."

Loot Game wasn't considered a genre until games that focus primarily on complete loot randomization began getting called that colloquially. At the end of the day they're RPGs at the core. But once you start breaking down RPG's into separate sub-genre's simply having loot does not make a Loot Game. Otherwise they're all loot games. It's not enough to differentiate, so it's a poor metric to use alone to determine subgenre. It would be like calling every game where characters use swords, Sword Games.

Then just say it's an action-rpg-shared-world-loot-oriented-game and call it a day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, from a game design standpoint, Destiny is oriented to be about the loot, it gives you different activities and opportunities to get it, and in whenever way you use them, it's a way to get loot. Now, sure, some players (and I include myself), aren't draw by the loot and find it quite boring to be honest, from what I've seen from the community, here or over Reddit, people tend to play this game because of the loot (won't say 100% of the players do of course).

Calling Destiny only a loot game would be wrong, sure, but it's an heavily loot oriented game (and Bungie made sure, since TTK, the game offers guaranteed rewards for doing specific activites).
 
Then just say it's an action-rpg-shared-world-loot-oriented-game and call it a day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, from a game design standpoint, Destiny is oriented to be about the loot, it gives you different activities and opportunities to get it, and in whenever way you use them, it's a way to get loot. Now, sure, some players (and I include myself), aren't draw by the loot and find it quite boring to be honest, from what I've seen from the community, here or over Reddit, people tend to play this game because of the loot (won't say 100% of the players do of course).

Calling Destiny only a loot game would be wrong, sure, but it's an heavily loot oriented game (and Bungie made sure, since TTK, the game offers guaranteed rewards for doing specific activites).

The loot is used for vertical progression. So it's not about the loot itself. It's about vertical progression. A game about loot wouldn't have ilvl/gearscore or in this case, Light Levels. After reaching a hard level cap, it would be all about horizontal progression. Horizontal progression significantly changes the way your character plays, ie Diablo, Torchlight, Path of Exile, even Borderlands. This isn't the case in Destiny at all. Even the hunt for perfect rolls doesn't change gameplay but rather gives incremental statistical boosts.

The discussion we're having may be semantics at a certain level but that's all sub-genre's really are. Labeling used in order to help identify the semantic differences between products within the same over-arching genre. So if we're willing to use sub-genre labeling then the semantics are the point.
 

jviggy43

Member
Then just say it's an action-rpg-shared-world-loot-oriented-game and call it a day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, from a game design standpoint, Destiny is oriented to be about the loot, it gives you different activities and opportunities to get it, and in whenever way you use them, it's a way to get loot. Now, sure, some players (and I include myself), aren't draw by the loot and find it quite boring to be honest, from what I've seen from the community, here or over Reddit, people tend to play this game because of the loot (won't say 100% of the players do of course).

Calling Destiny only a loot game would be wrong, sure, but it's an heavily loot oriented game (and Bungie made sure, since TTK, the game offers guaranteed rewards for doing specific activites).
This is more or less where I fall. Destiny isn't only a loot game but the majority of it is predicated around obtaining loot, especially so at end game and functions almost identically to other loot based games. If people want to say classify it as something else because its more than that by all means as it is more of an mmo but it seems the majority of people online have no issue referring to it as a loot game. Especially so considering that some of the mmo elements are experienced by less than half the player base.
 

VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
Friend has done Vault of Glass just two times. Got shader both.


Bungie pls.

At atleast there was humor on the run.

gRHwxCK.gif
 

Ivory Samoan

Gold Member
Just checking, how rare is Hallowed and Knight-Errant shaders?

I got both of them early on after hitting 400 and they're still easily the best I've seen.
 

VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
Have done that over a hole in the Siege Engine. Spacial awareness is hard!

I've fell down the holes at Vosik phase 2 outside the rooms with the Twilight Garrison quite a few times. :p

Just checking, how rare is Hallowed and Knight-Errant shaders?

I got both of them early on after hitting 400 and they're still easily the best I've seen.

You can buy Hallow from the kiosk with Silver Dust or get it from the Treasure of Ages box, it used to be an SRL reward. Knight-Errant is Iron Banner I think so probably a reward from there.

I do like Hallow myself and had been using it on my Titan but started using Electric Aquarius to go along with Glass and Time emblem and they match perfect. You might like Shimmer which is kinda like a blue variation of Hallow.

I only want two shaders now and I can't get either. Timeglass and Weldfire.
 
1. I don't run it weekly unless I want the buff.

2. Again, I run Raids when I want to, for the content itself.

3. I play IB for the PvP.

4. I complete quests because that's literally the content in the game.

5. I actually want to see the encounter designs and how the lore is comprised in world.

But really, the answer to all those questions is that people do those things because it's what you do to play the game. Run dungeons, Do patrols, do Quests, do dailies, PvE, PvP... all of it is the meat of the game. It's what you do in the game. If you're not doing those things, you're not playing the game. You're not even guaranteed loot from doing the majority of the content.

"Loot games" are not the only games with loot. They're not the first game with loot. RPG's started all of that. Hell the term Loot as it's used in gaming comes from TTRPGs. So Cayde-6 mentioning loot does not mean the game is a loot game. Just a community meme reference.

I mean, people can play the game for whatever reason suits them. Maybe it's the way the game feels as a shooter. Maybe it's the lore. Maybe it's the PvP. Maybe it's the loot. All of those are perfectly valid reasons to play. But saying a game that's identifiably a Lite MMO (Even Bungie's term Shared-World Shooter hints at MMO conventions) is a Loot Game is like saying Warcraft 3 is a PvE MOBA.

So, if you played vanilla Destiny or Destiny after the release of an expansion you never played a Nightfall with hopes of getting something new/cool or a new Raid with hopes of acquiring new Raid gear/weapons? Sorry, I don't believe you.

The loot in Destiny is a very big part of it's makeup as a game.

I mean loot is the reward for just about every activity, it can randomly drop, you have ways to increase your chances of getting drops, you have Xur day every week, you now have rotating weapons at the faction vendors, etc.

Destiny is a loot game. The loot drives the game until you have just about everything and then a new expansion is released and the cycle continues just as it will this September. To me the gunplay/gameplay is second to none but that doesn't make it any less of a loot game but rather just a better game overall.
 
So, if you played vanilla Destiny or Destiny after the release of an expansion you never played a Nightfall with hopes of getting something new/cool or a new Raid with hopes of acquiring new Raid gear/weapons? Sorry, I don't believe you.

The loot in Destiny is a very big part of it's makeup as a game.

I mean loot is the reward for just about every activity, it can randomly drop, you have ways to increase your chances of getting drops, you have Xur day every week, you now have rotating weapons at the faction vendors, etc.

Destiny is a loot game. The loot drives the game until you have just about everything and then a new expansion is released and the cycle continues just as it will this September. To me the gunplay/gameplay is second to none but that doesn't make it any less of a loot game but rather just a better game overall.

In the hopes of gear? No. I played MMO's for years. I learned a long time ago that playing content specifically to hope for drops is an exercise in frustration at best. Drop rates are never in the players favor. So I choose guaranteed ways of gear acquisition. Marks and Rep Ranks. Nightfalls buffed Rep acquisition which helped get vendor gear.

I get gear for two reasons. To try stuff I think I might like and to get high enough LL/Gearscore/whatever to play endgame activities. If I like the activities, I play them more. If I don't, I don't bother.

I've never bothered trying to get perfect rolls and I don't think I've ever once been max LL either, because it's never mattered to me. Gearing for me, is about getting to the point where I can do the things I want. I'm not going to play stuff I dislike or just plain don't want to do for the sake of gear.

And judging by population fall off between expansions.. most people tend to play less or stop altogether when they're having less fun with the content. As opposed to continuing to play because there's more loot they can get. It's really not an uncommon thing.
 
In the hopes of gear? No. I played MMO's for years. I learned a long time ago that playing content specifically to hope for drops is an exercise in frustration at best. Drop rates are never in the players favor. So I choose guaranteed ways of gear acquisition. Marks and Rep Ranks. Nightfalls buffed Rep acquisition which helped get vendor gear.

I get gear for two reasons. To try stuff I think I might like and to get high enough LL/Gearscore/whatever to play endgame activities. If I like the activities, I play them more. If I don't, I don't bother.

I've never bothered trying to get perfect rolls and I don't think I've ever once been max LL either, because it's never mattered to me. Gearing for me, is about getting to the point where I can do the things I want. I'm not going to play stuff I dislike or just plain don't want to do for the sake of gear.

And judging by population fall off between expansions.. most people tend to play less or stop altogether when they're having less fun with the content. As opposed to continuing to play because there's more loot they can get. It's really not an uncommon thing.

It sounds like you don't care for the traditional characteristics and randomness of loot games which is perfectly fine. I always want to hit max rank/highest LL, whatever but when it comes to gear/weapons I'm only interested in stuff that I think looks fun to use or I know I'll use it as collecting just for the sake of a checklist doesn't interest me at all.

That said, just because you don't bother/ignore or don't want to deal with RNG or the different avenues in leveling/progressing a character and acquiring loot doesn't make Destiny any less of a loot game.

I just find this whole discussion a little silly.
 
It sounds like you don't care for the traditional characteristics and randomness of loot games which is perfectly fine. I always want to hit max rank/highest LL, whatever but when it comes to gear/weapons I'm only interested in stuff that I think looks fun to use or I know I'll use it as collecting just for the sake of a checklist doesn't interest me at all.

That said, just because you don't bother/ignore or don't want to deal with RNG or the different avenues in leveling/progressing a character and acquiring loot doesn't make Destiny any less of a loot game.

I just find this whole discussion a little silly.

I didn't say Destiny isn't a loot game because I don't like loot games. I've already explained why Destiny isn't a loot game in previous posts.

You asked me why I play the game, if not for loot. I told you why. That has nothing to do with Destiny being a loot game or not.
 
I didn't say Destiny isn't a loot game because I don't like loot games. I've already explained why Destiny isn't a loot game in previous posts.

You asked me why I play the game, if not for loot. I told you why. That has nothing to do with Destiny being a loot game or not.

...and saying Destiny isn't a loot game is like saying water isn't wet. It's silly to say the least.
 

Gragen

Member
Lol. Destiny is a whole lot if things and a loot game is one of those things. JC your arguing is not going to change this.
 

zumphry

Banned
Hey all, GhaleonEB and I are trying to get a raid group together for normal mode Wrath of the Machine god on PS4.

I'm only LL 387, and haven't done it before. Anyone want in tonight? We have three, maybe 4, so slots are open.

Edit: We ended up just running a few quests and Archon's Forge. Still looking for people for raids in the next week, though!

PSN is zumphry.
 
guys what if

destiny 2 had a playerunown mode

you and 100 other guardians(Or I guess, 8) get dropped into a world and then you have to scavenge and kill each other

it would be hype
 
guys what if

destiny 2 had a playerunown mode

you and 100 other guardians(Or I guess, 8) get dropped into a world and then you have to scavenge and kill each other

it would be hype

I'd like for a mode as such to be added to Ghost Recon: Wildlands. The map is probably too big to use all of it but the gameworld is calling out for a similar gametype especially of the stealthy tactical nature. Solo, Co-Op, or Group/Team play. Maybe leave the Unidad Patrol Squads in to cause even more chaos and stress.
 

shermas

Member
I'm really trying to avoid a lot of the info on D2.

I'm gonna miss the entire beta due to family vacation, so I'll be starting pretty blind.

The idea that guns have static rolls has me kind of bummed... I get that Bungie wants the game to have more casual appeal, but the grind was part of the fun.

Make exotic drops exotic again.
 

bitsurugi

Member
It's been a while since I last posted in here, but my passion for Destiny is still very much the same as it was after the beta 3 years ago, maybe even bigger.

That said, I am personally happy they got rid from the doubble RNG system. It felt like vanilla Diablo3 loot, when you sure got 100 items in a good run, but bow's with Strenght rolls were a pain to watch, same was for guns in Destiny1 with Guerrilla fighter or Exhumed or other downright horrible perks on it.

If they got rid of that, it can only be good for us.

On the other hand I agree that Destiny is (also) a loot game. ''Also'' being the operative word and not ''only''.

Before giving final judgements on that matter, i'd say, let's wait and see in practice. Fixed perk drops doesn't actually mean easier grind, as they could also lower the actual drop rate or widen the loot table or use other mechanics that forces you to grind for the same item more then once (which was kind of hinted in the article).

At the end of the day, I don't think fixed perks or RNG perks on guns will make a big difference on the longevity of the game. What will make a big difference on the longevity of the game is ACTUAL END GAME CONTENT aka RAIDs and competitive PvP (for non PvE oriented crowds).

When i asked myself why did i play Destiny and not Diablo or Nioh or any other game in the last 3 years, i always come to the same answer. It's the raid(s) and the community - social aspect of the game, which is kind of tied to it.
You could throw RNG or fixed perks on guns right now, i wouldn't care as much as i care beating the raid on day1 and then the next few times. That's what i will remember from Destiny 1 and while is nice to have a god rolled gun, i really don't care, if there is no meaningful content, where i could put it to good use.

New raid(s) also means new loot, that be, with fixed or with RNG perks.

So, in the end, if there is one change that i would like to see in Destiny 2, is end game raid content that is released in less then a year timespan. One would only hope for a new raid every 6 months. Hell, I'd gladly pay 20-30 $ for just one raid.

Sure loot is nice, and AoT was ok, but i have run every single Destiny 1 ''era'' raid too many times (and i still do every week). But now, it feels more of a chore than fun, no matter the loot.
Frequent raid releases is what will make this game long lasting and not a blind RNG chase on guns (been farming Imago Loop like crazy on THAT nighfall and ofc, i did NOT get the FB roll and was NOT fun).

Well, just my 5c on that matter.
 
It's amazing to me how much I play pvp now, as I've always avoided it like the plague before. It's all I play now pretty much, and I've improved from being a below average player to being average at least. Rode a Kadey train for the first time last night I believe; GAF is pretty damn good. I should have been playing with you guys a long time ago, maybe I'd be even better. Now it's a ghost town in here, feels like I missed all the fun.
 
It's amazing to me how much I play pvp now, as I've always avoided it like the plague before. It's all I play now pretty much, and I've improved from being a below average player to being average at least. Rode a Kadey train for the first time last night I believe; GAF is pretty damn good. I should have been playing with you guys a long time ago, maybe I'd be even better. Now it's a ghost town in here, feels like I missed all the fun.

Soon it all starts anew.
 
Thanks for the train guys. I was suposed to be raiding with a few friends last night. Ended up being murfered on Trials. Literally. IB today? Super for the win.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Okay.

I managed to solo the game long enough to reach Lv40.

Now, how do I reach that *400 number that everyone in PVP has while mine is around 200?

Do I need to clear more quests or bash my head in PVP to get better gear?
 
Okay.

I managed to solo the game long enough to reach Lv40.

Now, how do I reach that *400 number that everyone in PVP has while mine is around 200?

Do I need to clear more quests or bash my head in PVP to get better gear?

Play Rise of Iron campaign, finishing it should give you around 320LL, then you can start playing the Siva Crisis strike playlist for better gear.
 
Okay.

I managed to solo the game long enough to reach Lv40.

Now, how do I reach that *400 number that everyone in PVP has while mine is around 200?

Do I need to clear more quests or bash my head in PVP to get better gear?

When you turn in engrams at the crypt arch, always have your highest light gear equipped, even if it's rubbish. The light level of new stuff is based on what you're currently holding and wearing.
 
This is basically what randoms do.

[run this way to death]

This is how I've been feeling playing my titan this week after weeks of only playing Warlock— everything feels wrong and I die by being stupid.

Now, how do I reach that *400 number that everyone in PVP has while mine is around 200?

Do I need to clear more quests or bash my head in PVP to get better gear?

The 200/400 number is your Light Level (LL), and is how you measure level after 40. It is used as a gating mechanism for PvE content (and a couple of pieces of PvP). It is a weighted average of the attack/defense/light values of your gear— weapons each count for 12%, armour counts for 10% each, and the remaining three slots are 8% each.

Anything that gives you loot will get you higher than 200, most will go to 390. Some Court of Oryx loot will top out much sooner.

Your LL doesn't matter in PVP (Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris excepted).

As Irrotational said, have your highest LL gear equipped when you turn in stuff/decrypt engrams to actually increase your LL.

Play Rise of Iron campaign, finishing it should give you around 320LL, then you can start playing the Siva Crisis strike playlist for better gear.

Rise or Iron requires being above 290LL, doesn't it? The Taken King stuff will go from 200-300.
 
It's amazing to me how much I play pvp now, as I've always avoided it like the plague before.

Herioc/NF been stale these this and last week so theres kinda nothing else to do.

Apparently I ended up with a godroll Luna cause 2 people on my team messaged me saying i was lucky. And to think I was about to dismantle it cause I suck with HC and don't pay attention to drops anymore.

I keep trying to practice Elimination in hopes to making it to the LH in Y3 but to no avail. I'm too inconsistent.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Ohh, I thought I'd get the pretty weapons and shit by playing Crucible or something, off to finish the rest of the missions then!

Thanks!
 
Apparently I ended up with a godroll Luna cause 2 people on my team messaged me saying i was lucky. And to think I was about to dismantle it cause I suck with HC and don't pay attention to drops anymore..

I used to hate them and now I love them. Experience in PvP in general. Still hunting for a god roll Luna.

Ohh, I thought I'd get the pretty weapons and shit by playing Crucible or something, off to finish the rest of the missions then!

You can get great weapons playing PvP— and if you're at your max LL when the rewards drop, you'll get LL increasing loot.
 

ramyeon

Member
Wrath of the Machine is so good.

Only got up to the Aksis check point but holy crap. It's so beautiful, some really stunning set pieces and vistas. Probably my favourite raid.
 
Top Bottom