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Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Please wait for Tien to be cool.

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S

Skeeter49

Member
ArchedThunder said:
Goku would win if that's the case.
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Gohan goes out first in U7 in the manga.
Toyotaro: "Don't ever get between me and my Goku ever again."

Kagari said:
The Goku and Vegeta wank was too strong in the manga. Trunks didn't do shit.
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The worst part seems to be that when it started it looked like it was going to keep Trunks role as big, just not Trunks does everything big like the anime. So people had hope it might be a better balance. But then it just consistently went in the direction of Goku and Vegeta, and oh yeah who is Trunks.

Did Future Trunks interact with any of the present cast other than Veggie and Goku in the manga? Gohan, 18, etc?
 
F

Fulminator

Member
Kagari said:
The Goku and Vegeta wank was too strong in the manga. Trunks didn't do shit.
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I mean he almost killed black, and he cut in half merged zamasu

I'd say toyotaro's true fuckery was the dumb refusion thing

If trunks had killed black, and they somehow got zamasu to do to weird thing that happened in the anime it would have been fine
 
G

Gin-Shiio

Member
Having not been a fan of all the sudden and stark power-ups, Trunks not doing shit pleases me. Besides, he still got to cut Zamasu in half.

Manga > Anime
 
H

HeroR

Member
B-Dubs said:
He's obviously gotten stronger, it just seems like he's stagnated around the ssj2 level. The worry might be if they make him too strong they'll have to do something with him other than have him train Gohan or watch Pan.
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Super Saiyan 2 is not a level and Piccolo stagnated around Perfect Cell until recently.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Fulminator said:
We have to preserve the purity that is the Goku and Vegeta show

Toyotaro is doing gods work
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More like fans being salty at anime Future Trunks and says he's a Mary Sue. So they enjoy manga Trunks getting his butt kick.

I will somewhat defend on this. Toriyama obviously didn't give Toyo and Toei much to work with other than Trunks having Super Saiyan 2 and some techniques from Gohan and Vegeta. Toriyama also wanted Trunks to get the 'killing blow' given that Trunks cut Merged Zamasu in half in both versions. But he never gave Trunks a big power up, hence Super Saiyan Rage and Super Saiyan 2 Trunks being even with Super Saiyan 3 Goku in the manga.

Toei may have taken it too far (YMMV), but Toyo went too far in the other direction, imo.

But the biggest disappointment in this arc in the manga, there was no emotional impact. To be frank, I didn't care for anyone in the manga, not even Trunks or Mai. While in the anime, I felt real sadness by the end of the saga.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Fulminator said:
What do you mean it's not a level
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Super Saiyan 2 is a multiplier of a Saiyan's base form. For example, Super Saiyan 2 Goku in the Buu Saga was much stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in the Cell Saga. Super Saiyan 2 Goku now is stronger than the entire Buu Saga.

So saying someone is Super Saiyan 2 level is vague. Do you mean Cell Games Super Saiyan 2? Buu Saga? Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 in Epsoide 88 or Super Saiyan 2 Goku in Epsoide 90?
 
K

KHlover

Banned
Slaythe said:
People defending how Trunks did jack shit is a good thing on Kanzenshu LOL.
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Not their fault Trunks doing jackshit is a more logical conclusion than Spirit Sword and Rage form outta nowhere, that one is entirely on the writers.

Note that I didn't say it's a better conclusion.
 
S

Slaythe

Member
KHlover said:
Not their fault Trunks doing jackshit is a more logical conclusion than Spirit Sword and Rage form outta nowhere, that one is entirely on the writers.

Note that I didn't say it's a better conclusion.
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Goku shitting hakai out and soloing merged Zamasu is as bad if not worse though.

Except it's more Goku wank.
 
E

Eylos

Banned
Even If Its not logical, i Will defend the genkidama sword, it was so cool, Just Put that in the bucket of Powers with no logical explanation of dragonball.
 
K

Karsha

Member
I mean, Trunks training under a kai and having healing + support abilities makes more sense than him suddenly powering up and reaching from ssj2 to ssjblue + levels. All of Dragonball has been like this with the exception of the Cell finale (and tbh in that saga Gohan was a total outsider up until that final fight) so I don't get the "Trunks does shit in his saga" theory. He did what he could, healed, helped, even defused and "killed" black so there's that.
 
H

Hopeford

Member
I love Vegeta in the manga. "I can't possibly win against him. Heal Kakarot instead!"

[One chapter later]

"Actually scratch that. I'm upset now, so I'm gonna blow like two of them up."

I don't even mean this ironically, I love how cheesy it is. On that same token I'll defend Trunks spirit bomb sword thing on the basis that it was cool as shit and that logic is secondary here.
 
N

Nightbird

Member
KHlover said:
Not their fault Trunks doing jackshit is a more logical conclusion than Spirit Sword and Rage form outta nowhere, that one is entirely on the writers.

Note that I didn't say it's a better conclusion.
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No i think its worse. I'd take asspulls that benefit the character this arc is actually about over asspulls for the MC.

That arc is Trunks story. Not Gokus. This is why the Goku Black arc is one of my favorite arcs in all of DB post King Piccolo. It's one of the few times Goku actually took a back seat to give the spotlight to the character that should have it.
 
U

Undead Fantasy

Member
Nightbird said:
No i think its worse. I'd take asspulls that benefit the character this arc is actually about over asspulls for the MC.

That arc is Trunks story. Not Gokus. This is why the Goku Black arc is one of my favorite arcs in all of DB post King Piccolo. It's one of the few times Goku actually took a back seat to give the spotlight to the character that should have it.
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100% agree with this.

Piccolo and Krillin look amazing in DBFZ!
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Dagobert Duck said:
What happened... Anime>>>Manga?
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The anime is better because Trunks is actually a lead character and a strong characterization. Toyotarou isn't very good at writing characters, which is why his Black and Zamasu are one-dimensional and boring as fuck.

That said, I dislike the storyline as a whole because it seems obvious Toriyama's outline for it was paper-thin and neither Toei nor Toyotarou ever went anywhere interesting with it. Or rather, they took interesting ideas and squandered them by the end. Like people said a couple pages back, this should have been an arc done further into Super's existence. It would have potentially benefited immensely.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Eylos said:
Even If Its not logical, i Will defend the genkidama sword, it was so cool, Just Put that in the bucket of Powers with no logical explanation of dragonball.
Click to expand...

That's how I feel. Spirit Bomb Spirit Sword. Asspull.

But so awesome that I really don't care.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Karsha said:
I mean, Trunks training under a kai and having healing + support abilities makes more sense than him suddenly powering up and reaching from ssj2 to ssjblue + levels. All of Dragonball has been like this with the exception of the Cell finale (and tbh in that saga Gohan was a total outsider up until that final fight) so I don't get the "Trunks does shit in his saga" theory. He did what he could, healed, helped, even defused and "killed" black so there's that.
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It really doesn't make sense when you break it down.

Why didn't the Supreme Kai or Kibito tell Trunks he had healing abilities. It could have save Shin. Plus, the way it was introduced comes off as an Asspull and a retcon. Why do the Kais even lose the ability to heal once they upgrade?

He also 'killed' Black at the time anyone could do it. It also didn't feel special since Black was a punk who got his ass beat by Super Saiyan God Vegeta.
 
T

TreIII

Member
Kagari said:
The anime is better because Trunks is actually a lead character and a strong characterization. Toyotarou isn't very good at writing characters, which is why his Black and Zamasu are one-dimensional and boring as fuck.

That said, I dislike the storyline as a whole because it seems obvious Toriyama's outline for it was paper-thin and neither Toei nor Toyotarou ever went anywhere interesting with it. Or rather, they took interesting ideas and squandered them by the end. Like people said a couple pages back, this should have been an arc done further into Super's existence. It would have potentially benefited immensely.
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Only if it would have taken place after the ToP already took great strides to make everybody else relevant besides Goku and Vegeta. Otherwise, it served its purpose, in my eyes. I think the whole thing about the Goku Black arc focusing so much on G & V was part of the reason why they tried to do a different thing with the ToP, afterward. So, I would almost say that getting Black as we did was a necessary evil to help move Super along.

Besides, the hook about at least one Zamasu still being out there remains if they ever want to revisit the concept. Ditto if they want to bring back Future Trunks and Mai.
 
B

Black-Wind

Member
PeaceUK said:
Theres more to god ki than stopping energy leakage, Krillin mastered that in his training episode and he hasn't got god ki.

How Vegeta unlocked it is unknown but it required Whis to train him so its obviously hard if not impossible to unlock on your own.
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From what we're given in the anime that training just made them stronger. Being put in that place that forced them to hold their energy inside is apparently what gave him god ki and SSB.

I feel like that place was designed as a crash course in god ki, to jump start their progress cause Beerus was getting bored. If there's more to it then Goku sure hasn't said anything.

Still stands out as strange to me that "God Ki" can still be matched by non-god ki so easily after it's smashing introduction.
 
H

HeroR

Member
Black-Wind said:
From what we're given in the anime that training just made them stronger. Being put in that place that forced them to hold their energy inside is apparently what gave him god ki and SSB.

I feel like that place was designed as a crash course in god ki, to jump start their progress cause Beerus was getting bored. If there's more to it then Goku sure hasn't said anything.

Still stands out as strange to me that "God Ki" can still be matched by non-god ki so easily after it's smashing introduction.
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Only a handful of people match God ki. Golden Frieza, Hit, Future Trunks, Toppo, and Jiren. Black had god ki since Super Saiyan Rose is his version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Zamasu was a god. This is out of over 90 introduced characters.
 
B

Black-Wind

Member
ImTheJudgeandJury said:
I'll be honest when it comes to writing in DBS I totally ignore it and look for action. I would go insane trying to make sense of a lot of shit.
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I guess that's how it should be? But then I see tons of whining and such about SS/SS2 Caulifla and U6 Saiyans in general which would mean people care about the writing if they get into such debates over so and so "earning" this and that.

HeroR said:
Only a handful of people match God ki. Golden Frieza, Hit, Future Trunks, Toppo, and Jiren. Black had god ki since Super Saiyan Rose is his version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Zamasu was a god. This is out of over 90 introduced characters.
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I feel like it's heavily implied that Gohan now can match SSB Goku without kaioken and that for some reason 17 can to. And I think if Freeza can then his U6 copy can to if the story gives him a transformation.

Soooo if that's the case Gohan coulda beat the bricks outta Goku before SSB training if he had just trained with Piccolo for a bit...
And Trunks can by unlocking a unique transformation on his own "just cause"?
If we're ok with ass pull power ups I see no reason to leave the other Z fighters behind completely.

Maybe we'll learn more about SSB this week seeing how things are going.
 
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