• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dragon's Crown Reviews

Status
Not open for further replies.
Consider, for example, that in Kid Icarus: Uprising there was a very heavy loot component and a wide range of easy to hard modes (including brain-dead easy), but I still managed to like that game quite a bit.
No joke, Kid Icarus's system ruined me for every other loot game. It's so absolutely ingenuous I'm shocked that hasn't been copied in almost every loot game since. Everything from Torchlight to Skyrim could benefit from an ability to gamble before entering a self-contained area.
So at what page did this stop being a review thread and start becoming another Dragon's Crown Sorceress' Titties thread?
Page 0.
 

ultron87

Member
Are the male characters also asking for help thought as "helpless objects"? I often find "object" to be such a lazy argument. Every NPC that has no agency is nothing more than a plot-forwarding "object" regardless if it's asking for your help because it is the King or a sexy woman trying to seduce you for help.

Does the game have a bunch of tied up men in suggestive poses?
 
I think you are conflating the issue.

I don't have a problem with Christina Hendricks having incredible breasts.

I have a problem with AMC exploiting her TNA as the sole reason she is on Mad Men. (Not entirely true but just the analogy)

The breasts aren't the issue, the intent and purpose are. Hint: sad pandering fan service.

The problem is you are assuming intent and purpose at every turn.
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
You all are focusing on the two main character designs when the Polygon review's problem is a broader game wide issue. It really isn't just "those breasts are big!"

This might mean something if it weren't a Polygon review, but it is, and something is probably being misrepresented or exaggerated.
 

wonzo

Banned
Using fanart to prove your point. Ouch.

Something tells me you might like this though:

bound_spirit.png


It's not like Kamitani hasn't studied art or anything.
yeah this is totally respectful
 

IcyEyes

Member
Except it's not, how can anyone honestly believe this? Please tell me what exactly is "objective good game design."

Have you ever designed a videogame ?

Well, it's like building an house.
A game designer (with complete knowledge about level design, gameplay mechanics, etc) can easily say if a game is well built or not.
Yes, there are some choices that can make the difference in a bad or good way, but in the end it's very important have a solid "structure" of the game.

A simple example:
Some platforms and Mario.
The goal of the level designer is to create a challenging part for the final stage and he/she chooses to place the last three platforms at the same level at an "half-jump" distance between them.
This is a bad choice because the final stage is not challenging at all.

He/She change his/her mind and sets up three platforms at full-jump distance with a death zone under them. If Mario falls he dies.
This choice is more challenging but since the player has only three lives, this part may get some players frustrated.

The (last) idea is to place two platforms at 3/4-jump distance and the last one at full-jump distance, but with an enemy over the last platform and no death zone if Mario falls. This choice is more challenging than the first one, there is some engaging jumping to do and a "risk" on the last platform. Most of the players may manage to do the first two jumps with little effort, stand over the second platform until the enemy is far on the third platform and face the last jump. If the Mario doesn't make a good jump he will not die and the player may quickly retry again from the first of the three platforms.

I think you can easily spend some words on each of the three problems and maybe say which of them is objectively a good design.
I hope I made my point :) (If not there are a lot of other examples, maybe even straighter!)

Ps I don't want to teach nothing to anyone, mine are just an example !
 
Does the game have a bunch of tied up men in suggestive poses?

Is that the only way you can be helpless objects? How many women in the game are tied up and helpless? Does Metal Slug objectify men by having them tied up, nearly naked and helpless and needing your saving too?
 

Vire

Member
The problem is you are assuming intent and purpose at every turn.
Please explain to me the intent and purpose of it if it is not to appeal to young men?

Look that's okay of you like that, there's no reason to keep trying spinning it as something it's not. I'm not personally condemning anyone who enjoys the characters, that's cool, It's just not for me.

But call a horse a horse. It is what it is.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Using fanart to prove your point. Ouch.

Something tells me you might like this though:

bound_spirit.png


It's not like Kamitani hasn't studied art or anything.

You also might like how when you touch her with your cursor, she writhes and moans. Doesn't work on anyone else, though. Certainly not on the broad-shouldered muscular barbarian.

I don't think Dragon's Crown is "the problem", but I could see why some people might find some parts problematic. That's fine. If they don't like it, they have every right to pass on it.
 
I think you are conflating the issue.

I don't have a problem with Christina Hendricks having incredible breasts.

I have a problem with AMC exploiting her TNA as the sole reason she is on Mad Men. (Not entirely true but just the analogy)

The breasts aren't the issue, the intent and purpose are. Hint: sad pandering fan service.

...sooo

should they just not have any big breasted women ever unless they are complete covered up?

Like obviously the intent is to show them off (don't watch the show so I am not sure if that's part of her character) but it seems like one could stretch it to make it so any women with large boobs can be seen as pandering fan service.

Like where does one stop?

Why can't a sexy character just be there being sexy without it being pandering bullshit?

Not you, but it seems like the crux of the issue is that any sex can be seen as pandering so maybe we shouldn't have any...and then...why stop there? Any violence could be seen as glorification. Or any minority character could potentially seen as racist..so stuff like the Wire? nah.

It's a slippery slope you start on when you start virtually asking for things to stop because you don't find them deseriable. and yeah once again criticism isn't censorship but what are you asking for when you go on and on about how bad it is? You want less of it. Which is basically asking for some of it not to be made....which is virtually censorship.

I agree with you first point in that yes the Polygon reviewer as every right to her opinion and if it ruined the game for her...fine. It;s one review. Who cares.

But I really wish people would simply say "this art doesn't appeal to me" and leave it at that instead of making it some sort of crusade and unintentionally putting down everyone who does like it as sexist or teenage boys who wank to it.

like come on.
 

Astarte

Member
You also might like how when you touch her with your cursor, she writhes and moans. Doesn't work on anyone else, though. Certainly not on the broad-shouldered muscular barbarian.

I don't think Dragon's Crown is "the problem", but I could see why some people might find some parts problematic. That's fine. If they don't like it, they have every right to pass on it.

The barbarian actually reacts to you poking his nipple, but having a barbarian writhe and moan is ill befitting of a village pillaging violence happy muscular man.
 
Please explain to me the intent and purpose of it if it is not to appeal to young men?

Look that's okay of you like that, there's no reason to keep trying spinning it as something it's not. I'm not personally condemning anyone who enjoys the characters, that's cool, It's just not for me.

But call a horse a horse. It is what it is.

You're personally condemning the creator. I can't really speak for the creator, but I can ask you to not be so closed-minded. You're basically saying that you can't make a character have large breasts unless you have a damn good reason. Doing so automatically means you're trying to collect money from pervs. You're advocating thinking that will homogenize female character design in very boring and safe limitations. Making a character with large breasts is not disrespectful to women. Claiming it is disrespectful and demanding people to prove it otherwise as if it is disrespectful by default is backwards. It's guilty until proven innocent. It's asking to prove a negative.
 

JackDT

Member
A reviewer giving a game a 6.5 score is "suppressing art" ?

If people say what they think and call something pandering, it's a slippery slope that will lead to censorship?

Give me a break. Freedom of speech isn't freedom from criticism. People saying exactly what they think is the opposite of suppression and censorship.
 

Vire

Member
...sooo

should they just not have any big breasted women ever unless they are complete covered up?

Like obviously the intent is to show them off (don't watch the show so I am not sure if that's part of her character) but it seems like one could stretch it to make it so any women with large boobs can be seen as pandering fan service.

Like where does one stop?

Why can't a sexy character just be there being sexy without it being pandering bullshit?

Not you, but it seems like the crux of the issue is that any sex can be seen as pandering so maybe we shouldn't have any...and then...why stop there? Any violence could be seen as glorification. Or any minority character could potentially seen as racist..so stuff like the Wire? nah.

It's a slippery slope you start on when you start virtually asking for things to stop because you don't find them deseriable. and yeah once again criticism isn't censorship but what are you asking for when you go on and on about how bad it is? You want less of it. Which is basically asking for some of it not to be made....which is virtually censorship.

I agree with you first point in that yes the Polygon reviewer as every right to her opinion and if it ruined the game for her...fine. It;s one review. Who cares.

But I really wish people would simply say "this art doesn't appeal to me" and leave it at that instead of making it some sort of crusade and unintentionally putting down everyone who does like it as sexist or teenage boys who wank to it.

like come on.
I appreciate your long and thoughtful response but I have to just reply with this:


The developers really should be embarrassed, because it is catering EXACTLY to the teenage wankers. It's pretty obvious what their intent is in that clip alone.
 

Astarte

Member
I appreciate your long and thoughtful response but I have to just reply with this:



The developers really should be embarrassed, because it is catering EXACTLY to the teenage wankers.

Embarrassed that I get to enjoy rubbing both men and women? I'm down for being catered to, really.
 

ultron87

Member
Is that the only way you can be helpless objects? How many women in the game are tied up and helpless? Does Metal Slug objectify men by having them tied up, nearly naked and helpless and needing your saving too?

If you can't tell the difference between

pNzKcOh.gif


and
I really don't know what to tell you. Admittedly she isn't tied up, but she apparently couldn't handle that dog head and oops theres her armor's vagina.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
The developers really should be embarrassed, because it is catering EXACTLY to the teenage wankers. It's pretty obvious what their intent is in that clip alone.

Teenagers? Hardly. Teenagers know where to find porn on the web.
 

jdl

Banned
ITT people continue to see what they want to see.

Game looks amazing. Reviews are looking good.
 
Shopkeepers in Capcom's D&D games mouthed off at you if you attempted to touch their breasts.

The controversy over this particular aspect is over a decade late.
 

FINALBOSS

Banned
It's like the developers slapped Vire's mother in the face or something...good god lol.


Also, pandering to teenagers? Seriously?

I can't think of a single teenager who would pick Dragon's Crown over surfing porn on the web. Get real dude.
 
If you can't tell the difference between

pNzKcOh.gif


and

I really don't know what to tell you. Admittedly she isn't tied up, but she apparently couldn't handle that dog head and oops theres her armor's vagina.

Oh lord have mercy, tell that dishonorable woman to close her completely covered legs! How dare she do something that is perfectly acceptable for a man to do!
 

Astarte

Member
I said that's fine if you like it, but at least admit its fan service and lets move on.

It's fan service for both genders, and I'm cool with that. It's also a fun little easter egg.

If you can't tell the difference between

pNzKcOh.gif


and

I really don't know what to tell you. Admittedly she isn't tied up, but she apparently couldn't handle that dog head and oops theres her armor's vagina.

That's a chastity belt. There's a key hole right there.
 

Vire

Member
If you can't tell the difference between

pNzKcOh.gif


and

I really don't know what to tell you. Admittedly she isn't tied up, but she apparently couldn't handle that dog head and oops theres her armor's vagina.
LOL.

Thank you for this, I needed it.
 
I appreciate your long and thoughtful response but I have to just reply with this:



The developers really should be embarrassed, because it is catering EXACTLY to the teenage wankers.


Newsflash.

You play video-games.

That will never ever ever ever be a non embarrassing activity. No matter how many dudebro or sports games one may play..you are playing a game.

and honestly if you are an adult and you still get embarrassed about shit like this...then whatever. You have other issues.


I just hate when people are placed into a neat little category to make those who don't like it feel superior. Fuck off with that shit bro.

I'm sure some sick fuck jerks of to Disney.

How would you like it if someone made fun of you for watching Basketball? "oh look at that lose, watching others play a sport instead of doing it himself..he must suck."

It really pisses me off that this mentality of "hurr hurr this is for dorks who jerk off to animayz" still exists in this world.

Not to mention, that has nothing to do with my post.

But I have realized who you are and yeah..not going down this rabbit hole with you.
 

Riposte

Member
If you can't tell the difference between

http://i.imgur.com/pNzKcOh.gif?1[IMG]

and

I really don't know what to tell you. Admittedly she isn't tied up, but she apparently couldn't handle that dog head and oops theres her armor's vagina.[/QUOTE]

I think she's wearing a chastity belt. With a lock and key setup too, like you also see in the film Robin Hood: Men In Tights. That's a pretty amusing detail.
 

KLonso

Member
The developers really should be embarrassed, because it is catering EXACTLY to the teenage wankers. It's pretty obvious what their intent is in that clip alone.

Not sure what's embarrassing about having a target audience. It's not you, and that's fine.
 

Vire

Member
Newsflash.

You play video-games.

That will never ever ever ever be a non embarrassing activity. No matter how many dudebro or sports games one may play..you are playing a game.

and honestly if you are an adult and you still get embarrassed about shit like this...then whatever. You have other issues.


I just hate when people are placed into a neat little category to make those who don't like it feel superior. Fuck off with that shit bro.

I'm sure some sick fuck jerks of to Disney.

How would you like it if someone made fun of you for watching Basketball? "oh look at that lose, watching others play a sport instead of doing it himself..he must suck."

It really pisses me off that this mentality of "hurr hurr this is for dorks who jerk off to animayz" still exists in this world.
I'm not making fun of anyone for liking it. I said that's fine if you like it, I personally just find it pretty eye roll worthy.

Opinions.

The whole original point was that I was defending the Polygon review for having that opinion. Not trying to put down anyone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom