Support NeoGAF

[Takuan]

yeah this is totally respectful

Jesus. Yeah, I can totally see this being a turn-off for a lot of people, and to describe this as embarrassing is completely appropriate.

Still, day one. I'll skip the molestation simulator and focus on murdering hordes of enemies.

Edit: Just saw the knight. Wow, lol.

 

[xxracerxx]

It has nothing to do with it being a woman, mroe so it's a woman with huge bouncing tits...

Didn't know that but good to hear, I guess.

So you don't really know much about the game than other than this thread, is that correct?

 

[Nazeem38]

Never will understand the "i am embarrassed to play a game" crowd.

Like why even play games if you are that insecure?

each to his/her own tho.

To be fair, I'd be pretty embarrassed if someone watched me play a game like Senran Kagura or DoA: Extreme.

Dragon's Crown from the looks of it has actual great gameplay and content to make up for the things some people would find embarrassing.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

I think it's clear that at this point, Polygon is in for the clicks.

 

[sunnz]

So you don't really know much about the game than other than this thread, is that correct?

Pretty much, I agree I should do more research ( and will do, like I found out it doesn't even have a confirmed release date for EU yet, sadly) but first impressions and all, I mean.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Would you say the knight with her legs open is in a sexualized position?

Not really.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Has this been posted? Excellent review by a woman that actually engages the topic intelligently and dispassionately:

Now THIS is a fucking review. Mad props to the author.

 

[Jarmel]

Not really.

Well I and other people disagree. Women spreading their legs open is traditionally viewed as a sexually charged position.

 

[Astarte]

Pretty much, I agree I should do more research ( and will do, like I found out it doesn't even have a confirmed release date for EU yet, sadly) but first impressions and all, I mean.

Go out and explore videos and character classes. You aren't forced to play a woman.

 

[Gintoki313]

To be fair, I'd be pretty embarrassed if someone watched me play a game like Senran Kagura or DoA: Extreme.

Dragon's Crown from the looks of it has actual great gameplay and content to make up for the things some people would find embarrassing.

Yup, I feel the same. The gameplay in this game totally makes up for all the other stuff in this game.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Well I and other people disagree. Women spreading their legs open is traditionally viewed as a sexually charged position.

Then that is the problem with your view, not the act. I think a lot of the problem with views on sex and nudity in the US is that we take them to be bad or that women doing anything remotely implying a sexual advance is actually a sexual advance.

 

[rdrr gnr]

yeah this is totally respectful

Those top comments. Holy shit, I'm dying.

 

[Globox_82]

so Polygon continues to give shit reviews to every PS exclusive? SHOCKING....

Spoiler

Not really

 

[sunnz]

Since I have 0 games to play till GTA V and no EU date confirmed, I was thinking of importing the vita version from the US.

Would this work? ( i'm from the UK)

I really do love the gameplay of this game.

 

[pariah164]

Since I have 0 games to play till GTA V and no EU date confirmed, I was thinking of importing the vita version from the US.

Would this work? ( i'm from the UK)

I really do love the gameplay of this game.

Yep! The Vita is Region Free.

 

[ochaworldorder]

I am sick and tired of hearing that the Sorceress' breasts are unrealistic. I and many other Gaffers can give you names of girls with breasts bigger than the Sorceress. There are people out there with breasts that big in real life so they are realistic. Are they bigger than average? Yes, but saying unrealistic is so disingenuous as there are real life people that go about their day with breasts that big. Making the sorceress a B cup and giving her the exact same clothes and there would be no controversy so the only thing off putting is her cup size. Why? What is so offputting about breasts the size that real women have?

Probably because most of the tiresome "modesty" oriented, sex-negative faux-feminism on GAF would also be quick to engage in the kind of commonplace real-life shaming that large-breasted women get stuck with when trying to wear stuff that nobody would read as sexual on someone with an "acceptable" body type.

As a woman I have always thought since this game was revealed that the Amazon was fucking amazing, and I love that the Sorceress actually has animations that read as "realistic" for clothes and proportions that are themselves not so realistic. But the lack of realism doesn't bother me or seem any more specifically charged than any of the designs in this game since they're all drawing on recognizable Western fantasy archetypes.

What does bother me is seeing a predominantly male group of posters that always crops up on these topics insisting that there is this one acceptable way to physically portray a woman and for anything that deviates from that, the discussion stops at her not-ok body regardless of what else is going on with the character.

I would love to see some examples of a male character, good or terrible, that it takes as long to get past the body of and discuss on any other level as the majority of female characters in games that have to be run through this Victorian checklist of physical acceptability (obviously this is less in regard to Dragon's Crown where everyone is a gameplay archetype).

 

[APF]

Men are seen displaying their wares as often as women

Do you have examples of cut scenes that depict men displaying their wares ala the women above?

 

[Giolon]

Has this been posted? Excellent review by a woman that actually engages the topic intelligently and dispassionately:

I read that review this morning and also thought it was great. It's pretty clear that she doesn't really prefer the art style, but can understand artistically and thematically where it's coming from and not use it as a cudgel to browbeat either the game or her audience with misplaced righteous indignation.

On the "helpless women" note - wow, a classic medieval fantasy setting with helpless villager women that you have to rescue from time to time? I'm shocked. This is my shocked face -_-.
But what if you're using a badass woman character to save them? Is it still not ok? Women can never be shown in a helpless position ever? Or is it only ok if men and women are shown in exactly equal proportion needing help? Or only men needing help b/c it bucks the trope?

 

[Funchameleon]

how is this gross or creepy. how would anyone be concerned about the message this sends. it compares to classical art. a womans body is beautiful. naked is natural. if you dont appreciate this you are anti-sex/. anita sakreesian *spits on ground* is a prude and arthur geis is her hapless and dickless white knight check out my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ex133LSR6xE&t=63

 

[Cyrano]

According to Arthur Gies it's "not the same thing", which is laughable.

It's not actually. The men are sexualized from a standpoint of male power fantasies, the women are sexualized from a standpoint of providing pleasure to men (see Waist-Hip-Ratio and Bust-Waist Ratio).

 

[vitiosuslepos]

Now THIS is a fucking review. Mad props to the author.

Thanks! I was hoping someone would get to where I discussed the art before this thread got out of hand.

 

[Astarte]

Do you have examples of cut scenes that depict men displaying their wares ala the women above?

I do not; the only thing I can pull up that's available without me getting the full game is the barbarian. Once the game comes out, I'll fulfill your request.

 

[Knux-Future]

It's not actually. The men are sexualized from a standpoint of male power fantasies, the women are sexualized from a standpoint of providing pleasure to men (see Waist-Hip-Ratio and Bust-Waist Ratio).

oh fuck. We are back to this again.

 

[Jarmel]

Then that is the problem with your view, not the act. I think a lot of the problem with views on sex and nudity in the US is that we take them to be bad or that women doing anything remotely implying a sexual advance is actually a sexual advance.

Let's think about the context. None of this exists in a vacuum. What was the goal of the artist when creating that piece? They exist in a similar society, mainly that of one where this position is probably viewed as sexualized. Where is he trying to attract your attention and why? Does this fit a theme found in other pieces of art in the game?

While it's impossible to read the mind of the artist, I think the viewer can get an idea of what the artist is trying to do.

 

[Giolon]

Thanks! I was hoping someone would get to where I discussed the art before this thread got out of hand.

This is your review? I thank you for having both respect for the artist and your audience when expressing your dislike of the game's art style.

 

[APF]

I do not; the only thing I can pull up that's available without me getting the full game is the barbarian. Once the game comes out, I'll fulfill your request.

NP. Can anyone else then? It undercuts the argument when it's incredibly easy to find all these women pics "showing their wares" but zero men pics along the same lines.

 

[Cyrano]

oh fuck. We are back to this again.

It's fairly clear that this has always been where we were, so acting as though we left it somehow is silly.

 

[meltingparappa]

It's not actually. The men are sexualized from a standpoint of male power fantasies, the women are sexualized from a standpoint of providing pleasure to men (see Waist-Hip-Ratio and Bust-Waist Ratio).

I'm glad there is an objective science of torso-phrenology to determine how many "demean units" that context-less character provides.

 

[Jacksonlee]

It's not actually. The men are sexualized from a standpoint of male power fantasies, the women are sexualized from a standpoint of providing pleasure to men (see Waist-Hip-Ratio and Bust-Waist Ratio).

what would've be appropriate?

 

[Qvoth]

But I found its over-exaggerated art style alienating and gross in its depiction of women

bwahahaha

 

[vitiosuslepos]

This is your review? I thank you for having both respect for the artist and your audience when expressing your dislike of the game's art style.

Yup, I'm Jasmine Maleficent Rea. I take time out when a review goes live to sift through questions and comments on review threads. I like to be fairly open with my reasons and opinions.

 

[Cyrano]

I'm glad there is an objective science of torso-phrenology to determine how many "demean units" that context-less character provides.

Given that this is an action game, it's fairly likely that the character will never be given a context other than that they are a character in a videogame world. Though actually, if we characterize them by their animations (and physical features), we can at the very least tell that gravity is being weirdly manipulated for these women for some unknown reason (we all know what that reason is).

 

[IHaveCandy]

Let's think about the context. None of this exists in a vacuum. What was the goal of the artist when creating that piece? They exist in a similar society, mainly that of one where this position is probably viewed as sexualized. Where is he trying to attract your attention and why? Does this fit a theme found in other pieces of art in the game?

While it's impossible to read the mind of the artist, I think the viewer can get an idea of what the artist is trying to do.

I see a wounded woman barely remaining conscious laying on the floor. She has something in her arm that looks important. From the text below, I imagine she had an important task, but failed. I would guess she will pass on her task to you before losing consciousness or something. At no moment did my focus turn to her legs being open. That is such a childish attitude to take. It's saying "open legs = sex because open legs = sex".

 

[erpg]

Has this been posted? Excellent review by a woman that actually engages the topic intelligently and dispassionately:

I'm glad I read this one. It's nice to see a view that's in shades of grey and acknowledges both sides without trying to ignite anything. Great stuff.

To quote my "why can't we be friends' plea from the OT:

I think the designs are fantastic. I know quite a few people who agree with me, and quite a few who don't. We could argue until we're blue in the face but taste isn't exactly the most malleable thing.

I'm going to enjoy the game, and I hope nobody will lose sleep over that.

Just relax folks. Quit trying to make false equivalencies with male beefcake, blaming the female body or accusing others of being sick perverts.

 

[antitrop]

Yup, I'm Jasmine Maleficent Rea. I take time out when a review goes live to sift through questions and comments on review threads. I like to be fairly open with my reasons and opinions.

You have a very cool name, by the way.

 

[Cyrano]

what would've be appropriate?

In terms of ratios? Smaller in all counts, by what most research seems to indicate. It's probably why a lot of people see these characters as gross exaggerations (even if they don't see them as sexualized), because by all rights, they are gross exaggerations. You can wikipedia it for more info about it. It's a research-based biopsychology, so its results aren't 100% accurate, but at the very least the research that has been done has been consistent.

 

[Jarmel]

I see a wounded woman barely remaining conscious laying on the floor. She has something in her arm that looks important. From the text below, I imagine she had an important task, but failed. I would guess she will pass on her task to you before losing consciousness or something. At no moment did my focus turn to her legs being open. That is such a childish attitude to take. It's saying "open legs = sex because open legs = sex".

What was the intent of the camera angle being centered near her crotch?

 

[IcyEyes]

Yup, I'm Jasmine Maleficent Rea. I take time out when a review goes live to sift through questions and comments on review threads. I like to be fairly open with my reasons and opinions.

Good review, really
(sorry for the short message, I'm really tired right now !)

 

[Knux-Future]

In terms of ratios? Smaller in all counts, by what most research seems to indicate. It's probably why a lot of people see these characters as gross exaggerations (even if they don't see them as sexualized), because by all rights, they are gross exaggerations. You can wikipedia it for more info about it. It's a research-based biopsychology, so its results aren't 100% accurate, but at the very least the research that has been done has been consistent.

but that is the whole damn point.

He intended them to be gross exaggerations.

and also...why must they be smaller? Do not offend some people? To be extreme here...isn't that potentiall offensive to women with big breasts?

The moment you start changing stuff because it offends someone is the moment when you basically have to stop because....everything can be offensive to some.

Basically who decides what is "appropriate"? That is ironically more sexist than anything this game pushes.

 

[Astarte]

What was the intent of the camera angle being centered near her crotch?

It's centered around the character herself. One's attention is drawn to her mangled leg with a dog's head dangling from it and the pile of gold she has in her left arm, not her crotch.

 

[The Wizard]

I also don't understand why people are arguing the art in this game is not sexually charged. It seem's pretty clear that it is, I don't think even the creator would shy away from that. Trying to pretend the poses and anatomy of these characters is not intended to be titillating seems disingenuous.

 

[Jarmel]

It's centered around the character itself. One's attention is drawn to her mangled leg with a dog's head dangling from it and the pile of gold she has in her left arm, not her crotch.

If you look straight at the picture, the first thing you see is the chastity belt. The camera is positioned perfectly to get a clear shot of her crotch.

 

[Jonnyram]

Yup, I'm Jasmine Maleficent Rea. I take time out when a review goes live to sift through questions and comments on review threads. I like to be fairly open with my reasons and opinions.

Great review. Kudos to you. Hope lots of people read it. It's very informative.

 

[Funchameleon]

If you look straight at the picture, the first thing you see is the chastity belt. The camera is positioned perfectly to get a clear shot of her crotch.

God I hate seeing women in positions of power like this!

 

[Rickenslacker]

If you look straight at the picture, the first thing you see is the chastity belt. The camera is positioned perfectly to get a clear shot of her crotch.

First thing I see is the golden item she's carrying.

 

[IHaveCandy]

What was the intent of the camera angle being centered near her crotch?

The camera angle is putting her at eye'level when she is on the ground. It gives the perspective that I am kneeling down to her level and talking to her.


And yeah, the first thing I see in the picture is the object in her hand. I had to look back and see that she was wearing a chastity belt after somebody mentioned it earlier.

 

[Cyrano]

but that is the whole damn point.

He intended them to be gross exaggerations.

and also...why must they be smaller? Do not offend some people? To be extreme here...isn't that potentiall offensive to women with big breasts?

The moment you start changing stuff because it offends someone is the moment when you basically have to stop because....everything can be offensive to some.

Basically who decides what is "appropriate"? That is ironically more sexist than anything this game pushes.

So rape's cool? You know man, I mean, it's like, nobody gets to "define" what is "appropriate." It's just like... man, that person who got murdered in the streets was just there and we can't define whether or not the person who stabbed him did it appropriately or not.

Seriously, give me a break.

 

[Astarte]

If you look straight at the picture, the first thing you see is the chastity belt. The camera is positioned perfectly to get a clear shot of her crotch.

Actually, my initial response is
"Oh wow, gold!"
then
"Is that a fucking dog head?"
The gold attracts the eye, I'm drawn to the dog head, and I notice the chastity belt on her crotch. I'm trying to get people to look at this image, but the only response I got from my roommate is "that gold is fucking shiny"

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

http://art-eater.com/2013/03/from-m...ragons-crown-trailer-is-full-of-epic-homages/

I mean, the style of the game is Kamitani's own, but is influenced by a few thousand years of art and history. There's a TON of depth to what is being presented.
Not all of it is such, but I think there is much more weight being put on the game than is necessary to prove any points.

Wow that is an amazing article by art-eater. I am blown away by how many references were put into that trailer alone. Damn I need this game.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

First thing I see is the golden item she's carrying.

Yup.

Although strangely, I wouldn't have even noticed the dog if it hadn't been pointed out previously...