BigBadShamoo
Banned
Wow, if i didn't know security+ I'd be so clueless watching that. Very good presentation by them. Can't wait to see what comes out of this.
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fail0verflow - PS3 Private Key + PSP Key + PS3's Blu-Ray Key found, FW 3.50 decrypted
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Drunkenthumbmaster
Banned
So when are they going to release this? I know everyone is worried about cheating but I wonder if this will allow for a mod scene in games with people making extra levels characters etc?
Beer Monkey
Member
Pirates don't really care if they can't play online. A serious pirate who is also an online gamer will buy a second system just to play all the offline games. But most likely there will be solutions to play online even if Sony gets the ban hammer going like Microsoft did with Xbox 1. Even softmodded xboxes had solutions available for online play.
In the age of cheap DLNA media player settop boxes an XBMC-capable PS3 isn't as big of a deal as it once would have been, but I'd still like to see it.
In the age of cheap DLNA media player settop boxes an XBMC-capable PS3 isn't as big of a deal as it once would have been, but I'd still like to see it.
wow, just wow.
After the good work of the hypervisior they fail at this. The trucha bug from the wii was a problem but was fixable by nintendo but if I'm understanding this correctly this isn't without a hardware change and a lot of developers work.
cwccheat plz! I love searching for cheats
Extremely intelligent people are weird, news at 11?
After the good work of the hypervisior they fail at this. The trucha bug from the wii was a problem but was fixable by nintendo but if I'm understanding this correctly this isn't without a hardware change and a lot of developers work.
cwccheat plz! I love searching for cheats
EricHasNoPull said:
Extremely intelligent people are weird, news at 11?
Oh man, if only the Python-PS3 project wasn't dead. I would've jumped right into the homebrew scene
captmcblack
Member
Just a question:
Why does it matter how long it took to crack the PS3? First off, even if it 4 years is a "long time" to crack it, it's allegedly the middle of the gen (since it's being extended indefinitely, along with the 360/Kinect). Secondly, if the reasoning for why it matters is that it's being used as a goalpost to establish the reason for blowing the PS3 wide open, then that's stupid too. When Linux was in the PS3 and people could install whatever they wanted on that partition, the widespread need for modding it didn't exist. People who had the interest in PS3 homebrew and running emulators and shit could - and did - do so easily. The PS3 was region-free for PS3 games out of the box as well, and it already was backwards compatible on top of that - so most people were actually pretty satisfied with the stuff it could do out of the box. There was random posting on scene messageboards about reading and dumping Blurays, but the overwhelming majority of people that would've been interested in hacking the thing to do other shit were sated by the machine out of the box.
The interest in hacking the PS3 grew every time Sony revised the machine or revised SKUs to gimp or remove a feature. When (partial) software BC was removed, people started wanting to figure out how to bring it back via hacking. When Linux was removed, people REALLY wanted to figure out how to bring it back. So yeah, it's fairly accurate to say that shit didn't get real until 9 to 12 months ago. The PS3 was advertised and widely-reknowned for the openness of the system...so naturally, the less open it got, the more interested the underground became in opening it up again.
Anyway, I don't much care to discuss the moral or amoral ideals behind emulation/modding/copying games and whathaveyou. This forum has the right rules in place for discussion of it (don't be a retard and discuss the blatant theft of games), so that's all that matters. I am glad the PS3 may now have a thriving scene like the original Xbox and the PSP had, and I am pretty sure that the system isn't going to suddenly die because games may be copyable now. Hopefully in the future, Sony does things like they started out with the PS3 and ENCOURAGE people to tinker with it openly.
Why does it matter how long it took to crack the PS3? First off, even if it 4 years is a "long time" to crack it, it's allegedly the middle of the gen (since it's being extended indefinitely, along with the 360/Kinect). Secondly, if the reasoning for why it matters is that it's being used as a goalpost to establish the reason for blowing the PS3 wide open, then that's stupid too. When Linux was in the PS3 and people could install whatever they wanted on that partition, the widespread need for modding it didn't exist. People who had the interest in PS3 homebrew and running emulators and shit could - and did - do so easily. The PS3 was region-free for PS3 games out of the box as well, and it already was backwards compatible on top of that - so most people were actually pretty satisfied with the stuff it could do out of the box. There was random posting on scene messageboards about reading and dumping Blurays, but the overwhelming majority of people that would've been interested in hacking the thing to do other shit were sated by the machine out of the box.
The interest in hacking the PS3 grew every time Sony revised the machine or revised SKUs to gimp or remove a feature. When (partial) software BC was removed, people started wanting to figure out how to bring it back via hacking. When Linux was removed, people REALLY wanted to figure out how to bring it back. So yeah, it's fairly accurate to say that shit didn't get real until 9 to 12 months ago. The PS3 was advertised and widely-reknowned for the openness of the system...so naturally, the less open it got, the more interested the underground became in opening it up again.
Anyway, I don't much care to discuss the moral or amoral ideals behind emulation/modding/copying games and whathaveyou. This forum has the right rules in place for discussion of it (don't be a retard and discuss the blatant theft of games), so that's all that matters. I am glad the PS3 may now have a thriving scene like the original Xbox and the PSP had, and I am pretty sure that the system isn't going to suddenly die because games may be copyable now. Hopefully in the future, Sony does things like they started out with the PS3 and ENCOURAGE people to tinker with it openly.
Mailenstein
Member
Dude, you still don't get it, do you? Everyone can sign apps now and they will act like legit Sony apps.Zoe said:
CadetMahoney
Member
hmmm, doesn't look good for Sony. Not even a chip or nuthin? That's even worse than, than. . . dunno.Nuclear Muffin said:
Oh My God NO. Steam on PS3. Can you imagine the sales? I'd have no money left :lolRubberJohnny said:
Oh, and a reminder to all -
THIS IS NOT A HACK, NOR AN EXPLOIT THAT CAN BE DETECTED REMOTELY. THIS IS MERELY A MEANS TO ENABLE UNOFFICIAL HOMEBREW CODE TO BE "SIGNED" SO THAT IT CAN RUN ON ANY CURRENT PS3, WITH ANY FIRMWARE VERSION. THAT'S IT.
There, just thought that needed to be clarified, some of you guys seem a bit slow on the uptake.
Can't wait to see what comes out of this.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Dambrosi said:
Steamworks != Steam (the program)
just FYI
PetriP-TNT
Member
Well now I am confusedDambrosi said:
Mailenstein said:
That doesn't mean they can't be detected. Here's a couple of ways they can detect homebrew and cheats:
- Search for homebrew install directories.
- Create a punkbuster type app that monitors for known homebrew/cheats in RAM.
- Hash check files against a remote list.
- Game specific cheat tests by patches. (e.g. in CoD check for aimbots, rate of fire etc.)
Of course these can be bypassed or made to return the correct values. So they could
- Use Microsoft's method of remotely sending code whenever you sign into PSN that performs the above.
Whilst Sony are pretty much fucked for homebrew & piracy offline it should be quite easy to stop people using any of this stuff from going online.
...Actually, having read up on it, Steamworks wouldn't make a whole lot of sense outside of Steam, would it? It's not just DRM, y'know.PetriP-TNT said:Well now I am confused
You simply don't get it, do you? All you'd have to do is load a modified, signed bootloader (or, for example, a signed update.pup that contained CFW) that allowed for execution of code through USB, and voila, as the French say.Zoe said:
Funny thing is I was just reading on Beyond3d that the key in question is the one that the PS3 uses to verify firmware, and only firmware. That makes the situation very different for Sony; a quick hardware revision and they're done with new units going forward.
It means the situation is slightly different for users too, they'd have to install CFW to be able to pirate / use homebrew, similar to the PSP. The problem for Sony here is that games have a lower system priority on the PS3, so they can't easily validate the firmware.
Damn, I wish I had time to actually watch the video, I've been relying on commentators. Maybe tonight.
It means the situation is slightly different for users too, they'd have to install CFW to be able to pirate / use homebrew, similar to the PSP. The problem for Sony here is that games have a lower system priority on the PS3, so they can't easily validate the firmware.
Damn, I wish I had time to actually watch the video, I've been relying on commentators. Maybe tonight.
mugurumakensei
Member
Zoe said:
Then someone extracts the firmware update file and modifies the whitelist and/or blacklist (not really necessary since you can make a small modification to your homebrew code [do nothing code] and change the signature) -> Resign the official update -> Place on proxy server -> PS3 retreives update from proxy server -> PS3 updates -> Sony's issue still not resolved.
At this point, future firmware updates and whitelists will only take a few weeks to a month before they get bypassed.
BC PS3s always had some PS2 hardware in it to work. There was never any software BC that Sony removed on newer models. They just lacked the hardware and was cheaper to produce.
Yes they took away Linux. I can understand some people's disappointment on that. However Linux on PS3 was gimped from the beginning. There wasn't any meaningful applications that came out from the years that it was available.
These kinds of arguments sound like a "well they were asking for it" when in fact it's kind of misleading.
PetriP-TNT
Member
I think that all the community features, cloudsaving etc. are pretty swell. Saving the game of Portal 2 on your PS3 and continuing it on your laptop...Dambrosi said:
frontieruk
Member
To be fair though this is more about the publisher wanting a slice of the 2nd hand games market that they weren't getting from the store rather than piracy, but it does have a nice knock on effect that a pirate would have to pay $10 to get online with itNHale said:
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Because for once devs had a zero piracy platform to release their games on, for four and a half years, and not just for a few months tops? I don't think that has ever happened before. Also, I really doubt we are in the middle of generation no matter what Sony and MS whant people to think.captmcblack said:
A different point of view to the it's my hardware and i have the right to do what i want with it.
Because the hardware reliability sucks it doesn't quite works like that. Basically let's say you run unsigned code and convert the PS3 to a web server (running Apache...nvm that the PS3 CPU would suck for this). It runs nonstop for 6 months and then it melts ( because obviously the hardware was designed with a different use case scenario, it was never designed to run for continuously for months).
What happens in this case ? You're entitled to a new PS3 but on the other hand you used the hardware in a way the manufacturer didn't planned for.
Get my point ?
Because the hardware reliability sucks it doesn't quite works like that. Basically let's say you run unsigned code and convert the PS3 to a web server (running Apache...nvm that the PS3 CPU would suck for this). It runs nonstop for 6 months and then it melts ( because obviously the hardware was designed with a different use case scenario, it was never designed to run for continuously for months).
What happens in this case ? You're entitled to a new PS3 but on the other hand you used the hardware in a way the manufacturer didn't planned for.
Get my point ?
Aklamarth said:
Sony says you voided you warranty and you don't get a new PS3.
Its no different then Apple not giving you a new iPhone because you jailbroke it. Hell, I rooted my Droid, if anything happens to it, Verizon and Motorola won't give me a new one. I understood that when I rooted it.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Zoe said:
What is so difficult for you to understand? You have consistently been making an argument that hasn't existed since yesterdays announcement. They will be offering a firmware update that is signed that will be installing linux onto every PS3. This will allow the signing of any program. You're arguing whether its still OFW or modded firmware. It really doesn't matter what you categorize it since all it is is a firmware update that is modded which can be copied onto a memory card or hdd and read.
captmcblack
Member
Oni Jazar said:
Okay, so it was:
- full hardware backwards compatibility in the original 20 and 60GB PS3 models
- partial software/hardware backwards compatibility in the 80GB PS3 model
- no backwards compatibility at all in all PS3 models following the 80GB MGS4 bundle (so 40 GB, 120GB, Slim, etc)
I understand that. It doesn't change the fact that people had no interest in fiddling around the software and hardware to find out if they could bring that feature back until the feature was gimped and later removed completely.
As for "they were asking for it"...well, again the PS3 was ALWAYS advertised and widely-reknowned for its openness compared to virtually any system currently or previously released. From the ability to install your own HDD of any size, use any type of storage card or media to back up or read files (if you had the correct SKU, of course - Sony would later remove this), playback almost any kind of video/audio/photo file from discs, off cards and thumbdrives, off the hard disc or over a network, play almost every title from every Playstation home console, install a fully-functional version of Linux or other OS compiled for PS3 (and run whatever kind of software existed for it - emulators, games, word processors, whatever), browse the full Internet, and so on, the PS3 was said to do EVERYTHING - even today.
Factually speaking, everytime the "everything" Sony advertised and bullet-pointed on boxes decreased, people's interest in finding out why and reversing the trend by any means necessary increased. That's inarguable. Do you think people would be trying to re-enable Linux if you still could install it freely? Do you think people would be downgrading their firmware if they could still run whatever they wanted on current firmware?
I won't say "Sony was asking for it"...but if anyone wants to deny the clear correlation between taking stuff away and hacking to gain back old features/create new ones, that's all you.
Lord Error said:
THIS is the part that may plausibly suck...if you are a developer, or work for a publisher, or are a shareholder in SCEx or something. For those of us at the other end of the controller, there is a distant fear where somehow, the PS3 will be one of the few (if not only) major home consoles with large sales that bucks the historical trend and is brought down by piracy because third-parties will no longer produce their games for the machine.
...but I doubt it.
Sony's (and other companies') DRM may become ultra-draconian in response to this...but they'd fuck their sales up tremendously too - and additionally, since this hack signs all software, it'd be worthless to put epic DRM anyway.
TouchMyBox
Member
Someone wake me up when the PS3 becomes a viable XBMC machine.
By the way, can everybody agree to stop it with this "EPIC FAIL!!! LOLZORZ" nonsense? It only makes you look like a complete asshole.
By the way, can everybody agree to stop it with this "EPIC FAIL!!! LOLZORZ" nonsense? It only makes you look like a complete asshole.
Mr. Mister
Member
If it is just the firmware key couldn't sony release a new firmware that makes all future firmwares require a new key to properly install?
Say 3.7 was the firmware that had the new keys implemented and anything post 3.7 wouldn't install. If I was still on a pre 3.7 when 3.8 was released Sony would detect this and make me download 3.7 and then move on to 3.8.
Say 3.7 was the firmware that had the new keys implemented and anything post 3.7 wouldn't install. If I was still on a pre 3.7 when 3.8 was released Sony would detect this and make me download 3.7 and then move on to 3.8.
RubberJohnny
Banned
No because this means that all the games that already exist stop working. You're talking about throwing all the PS3 stock in every Gamestop in the country into the trash, bricking everyones collection and making every game franchise that's already be out no longer exist unless they reprint new disks.Mr. Mister said:
It's too late for Sony to stop this, the best they can do is reduce its impact.
Zoe
Member
Dambrosi said:
Is that not modification, which is what I said? The person was asking if the PS3 can run code from USB which it can't.
LovingSteam said:
I do understand what's going on. I also believe there is a fundamental difference between true OFW and any modifications made to run these apps, and people must make active efforts to avoid installing OFW compared to modified firmware.
TouchMyBox said:Someone wake me up when the PS3 becomes a viable XBMC machine.
By the way, can everybody agree to stop it with this "EPIC FAIL!!! LOLZORZ" nonsense? It only makes you look like a complete asshole.
I don't think that will happen ever. XBMC guys have said a lot of times thatis now mainly a PC/MAC program and they don't intend to port it ovr any gaming machine.
Also, is now a really huge program. Unless someone start doing all the work from scratch or they change their mind I find it difficult.
We still have the ossibility of a non-crapped linux+ XBMC. Anybody knows how the MACPPC version status? Maybe they could start from it :lol
As someone who knows nothing about this.. just reading all the buzz menas it has to be something big.
Outside of that.. as someone who enjoys Achievements / Trophies.. how bad is this for the Trophy system on the PS3? Does this really hurt how legit the system is?
I sure hope not ... and I realize its not the most important thing to worry about but I have not heard much about this as a unified award system like this is a new thing this gen.
Outside of that.. as someone who enjoys Achievements / Trophies.. how bad is this for the Trophy system on the PS3? Does this really hurt how legit the system is?
I sure hope not ... and I realize its not the most important thing to worry about but I have not heard much about this as a unified award system like this is a new thing this gen.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
captmcblack said:
People are throwing every person who claims to be a hacker into the same box and arguing that since folks were trying to hack it from day 1, that it means these guys have been trying for 4 and some odd years. This is wrong as you pointed out.
Nobody cares if little Johnny down the street is using his first copy of 'Hacking For Idiots' from the local book store to hack the PS3. He really doesn't count. Now, when you get folks like Marcan, Bushing, and the capable folks trying to hack a console/system/what have you, THAT is when it truly begins IMO.
The beginning was Geohot which opened the door. This led to Sony removing otherOS from the PS3, not to mention the Slim not having it either. When otherOS was removed, it broke the unspoken agreement between the big honchos and Sony regarding them staying away. There was now a reason for them to look into it: Linux removal. Then you had the PSJailbreak release which got more people excited because now there was a true way to open the system up. The cat and mouse game was on and now you have the coup d'etat, the ability to sign applications.
To summarize:
*No interest for the capable hackers when OtherOS was enabled (year 1-3)
*GeoHot finds a crack in the armor, Sony removes OtherOS (Jan-March year 4)
*PSJailbreak released, more folks jump on board (July year 4)
*Marcan and Co. find a way to sign any program (Dec year 4)
TouchMyBox
Member
itxaka said:
Well the beauty of open source is that someone with the talent will want to do it. Perhaps wanting all of XBMC might be asking for a small miracle, but as long as there is an elegant way to play high def x.264/mkvs, I'd be as happy as a pig in shit.
badcrumble
Member
I don't want a separate app for watching video, I just want the firmware to recognize that if it can play h.264 video in the .mp4 container, it can play precisely that same video in the .mkv container. Le sigh.N.A said:
test_account
XP-39C²
To be fair, a lot of these things are still possible today though. The things that i can see on this list that isnt possible today are the OtherOS feature and the PS2 backward compability. Maybe the storage card thing as well, but even at PS3 launch, the 20GB model didnt have this feature, so it was not something that was standard on the PS3. I would say that the PS3 is still pretty open regarding the stuff that you mentionedcaptmcblack said:
If they could run whatever they want, including pirated games, there would be any need to downgrade the firmware of coursecaptmcblack said:
But even with full Linux support, i am sure that the "urge" (or what i shall say) to enable piracy would still be there. Just look at the PS1 for example. That system couldnt run Linux, but still people created a lot of modchips for it. We might use arguements like "it was modded to play games from other regions" and "now i can play my own backup games so i dont have to fear scratches on my original games". These argumenets might be true for some, but i dont think that there is any secret that these modchips were also created for piracy use.
mugurumakensei
Member
badcrumble said:
Eventually, someone will mod the firmware to do something like that. It'll probably take a good 4-6 months or more before we see stable modded firmware.
test_account said:
The PS1 actually could theoretically run linux actually. Even the gameboy advance could run linux.
mugurumakensei
Member
delete this at some point
OldJadedGamer
Banned
RubberJohnny said:
The only thing they can do now is a hardware revision. Basically a PSP3000 type of situation.
ChronicleX
Banned
Mailenstein said:
"There is no exploit for this, we just sign things. Sony Epic Fail"
What has happened is akin to sony hiding their housekey under a flowerpot in the back garden, but every house is someones PS3. "Na, no-ones gonna check the flowerpot, we are fine! Oh shit hackers saw us noosing around the flowerpots and decided to check them out!?"
I am pretty sure the hackers themselfs are shocked at this discovery, hence they keep crediting sony for the epic fail. :lol
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
JudgeN said:
Fixed and agreed. We're on year 5. Surely a new console is already being designed. I don't see any new type of DRM being implemented so late in the game. Hopefully they will learn how not to leave the window open next time AND allow OtherOS in a more functioning type of way.