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[i_am_ben]

Isn't the dwarf already overly sexualized? That's the problem I have with the article, complains about boobs but not about this:

They're not exactly playing double standards here, it's just the games art style.

yeah gotta love that sexy Santa Claus.....

 

[dragonbane]

We need Schreier and Lime in here ASAP!

 

[bigbaldwolf86]

Not really sure what the noise is about. The guy gave his opinion and it was responded to with a picture.

On a side note. I do like the art style of the game.

 

[Dead Man]

he should've responded by linking his other male character designs, it would've sounded much better than this

And that is cheap and juvenile too. So what? It doesn't matter if it is, if it serves the purposes of the game, then it's fine.

 

[Ratrat]

Dragon's Crown looks ridiculous, but they could at least make the males as sexually attractive as the females, because the males all look like shit.

What about this one?

 

[sublimit]

Well at least it's more subtle than "eat shit".

 

[Phonomezer]

Isn't the dwarf already overly sexualized? That's the problem I have with the article, complains about boobs but not about this:

They're not exactly playing double standards here, it's just the games art style.

How is that at all sexualised? It's a dwarf whose top-half looks like mud after a tank has rolled over it.

If the designs were on an even playing field, all the male characters would have ENORMOUS BULGES complete with animated bounce, perhaps even a VPL.

 

[Shinta]

Juvenile and cheap. It means the design is juvenile and cheap. And it is. There is nothing wrong with that. Juvenile and cheap are fine. It makes no statement about people who are attracted to women in general, only those that are attracted to that one design, for whatever reason, not necessarily sexual.

You are looking way too hard at this.

I totally disagree. It's a common theme on Kotaku, and the media at large, and it's explicitly criticizing sexuality in games.

RPS's article on sexism showed a picture of Dragon's Crown as well. The message is extremely clear. Erotic art like this is immoral, sexist, cheap, juvenile. They're saying that this artist is shit for expressing his sexuality in his artwork, and anyone who likes it should be mocked and humiliated.

 

[JasonUresti]

I really do pity people who cannot appreciate Dragon Crown's art. It's so beautifully on point for the erotic fantasy style it's trying to be. But I guess some people do have the opinion that sexuality is reserved for teenagers, and not adults.

Doesn't seem very erotic, just silly and absurd.

 

[Fusebox]

Oh shit, don't you guys start diving into Conan or things are gonna get ugly.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Kamitani is god.

 

[speedpop]

The male body - where muscles have muscles.

 

[Dead Man]

I totally disagree. It's a common theme on Kotaku, and the media at large, and it's explicitly criticizing sexuality in games.

RPS's article on sexism showed a picture of Dragon's Crown as well. The message is extremely clear.

So you are criticising this article for things in other articles? Okay...

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

I'm with Schreier on this one.

 

[mullet2000]

How is that at all sexualised? It's a dwarf whose top-half looks like mud after a tank has rolled over it.

If the designs were on an even playing field, all the male characters would have ENORMOUS BULGES complete with animated bounce, perhaps even a VPL.

I wouldn't be surprised if the male characters in this game had giant bulges, honestly.

It's clearly going for a sexualized tone for both genders, in my eyes.

 

[Frodo]

So, among all these people designing the character models, people writing silly "articles" and developers commenting on the subject looks like they are all teenagers. Maybe that is why they are getting along so well.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Dragon's Crown looks ridiculous, but they could at least make the males as sexually attractive as the females, because the males all look like shit.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

That thread was great


Anyways, that's an amazing response, Dragon's Crown day 1

 

[RedAssedApe]

game looks awesome by the way...although the sorcesses' breasts are pretty insane in the trailer. she looks borderline topless in some of the animations

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Doesn't seem very erotic, just silly and absurd.

That's because you have no concept of fantasy art in the 20th century.

 

[Shinta]

So you are criticising this article for things in other articles? Okay...

If you don't follow the larger media-wide sexism debate that is the context for this article, then that's on you, not me. It's clear as day though.

 

[Dead Man]

That is not disproving the post you quoted

If you don't follow the larger media-wide sexism debate that is the context for this article, then that's on you, not me.

Sure. It's on me. What exactly? Not conflating this article with every other one? I'll take that happily.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Doesn't seem very erotic, just silly and absurd.

It's amazing how often those things coincide.

 

[ULTROS!]

If you guys think George Kamitani's work exploits women, then I bet you haven't seen the stuff done by Compile and NIS.

 

[sleepykyo]

Oh shit, don't you guys start diving into Conan or things are gonna get ugly.

When did Conan become a hot topic?

 

[Fusebox]

That is not disproving the post you quoted

I guess it's a personal opinion thing, but that Knight has a pretty damn handsome face and the body of Adonis. Not sure what else you can ask for.

 

[Dead Man]

If you guys think George Kamitani's work exploits women, then I bet you haven't seen the stuff done by Compile and NIS.

Who in THIS thread has said it exploits women?

I guess it's a personal opinion thing, but that Knight has a pretty damn handsome face and the body of Adonis. Not sure what else you can ask for.

How can you tell? It looks like he is a kid wearing his dads armour. It does have the unfortunate effect of perpetuating the half naked female/ well armoured male theme (jokes, I know there are half naked males in the game too.)

 

[SolidSnakex]

And that is cheap and juvenile too. So what? It doesn't matter if it is, if it serves the purposes of the game, then it's fine.

Because Schreier argument isn't with the male characters. They're all (with the exception of the Wizard) hugely exaggerated like the Sorceress and the Amazon. But he only takes issue with the Sorceress in particular.

 

[Shinta]

That is not disproving the post you quoted



Sure. It's on me. What exactly? Not conflating this article with every other one? I'll take that happily.

It's not "conflating" to read lots of media, follow authors over a long period of time and interpret what they're saying when they're being extremely obvious.

You're going out of your way to rob his comments of all meaning when the meaning is blatantly obvious. It's fine if you want to do that, but you're wrong.

 

[Delusibeta]

Yeah, the Dwarf looks like someone from Conan the Barbarian and the Knight is a Japanese Jim Raynor.

 

[EatChildren]

Doesn't seem very erotic, just silly and absurd.

Well, eroticism can be subjective, but I have no doubt in my mind that Dragon's Crown draws parallels with art not unlike Conan the Barbarian. Whether or not that appeals to an individual is irreverent. The game is very specifically drawn as erotic fantasy, heavily inspired by Nordic and European medieval art.

Like, I just don't get how people could look at someone like the Amazon and go "hurr fourteen year old boob fantasy". She's classically Amazonian eroticism: beautiful visage, gorgeous thick blonde locks, traditional curvaceous female anatomy, contrasted by an almost grotesque muscular physique of rippling abs, toned buttocks, and engorged thighs.

If that seems juvenile to someone, whatever. They're entitled to think that. I see medieval erotic fantasy, and an artist who knows exactly how to draw it.

 

[ULTROS!]

Who in THIS thread has said it exploits women?

Maybe it is, but doesn't mean that we can't have an opinion about it. So many folks are ready to jump on someone who doesn't agree with them on this. In my opinion (as I said), I don't like it and it comes off as exploiting women a bit. You like it? Great.

.

 

[Dead Man]

It's not "conflating" to read lots of media, follow authors over a long period of time and interpret what they're saying when they're being extremely obvious.

You're going out of your way to rob his comments of all meaning when the meaning is blatantly obvious. It's fine if you want to do that, but you're wrong.

No. You said THIS article was attacking heterosexual males. You even begun to prove that assertion without crying about other articles. You have failed.

This article, this one article, does not attack heterosexual erotica or heterosexual males.

.

So one guy. I don't think that is emblematic of 'you guys saying all this stuff'. But fair enough, one guy said it.

 

[dreamfall]

I think we need more sex in games. So when we do have erotic art, there isn't immediate dismissal.

(As for sexualizing male characters, I'm for that too.)

 

[K.Sabot]

Well, eroticism can be subjective, but I have no doubt in my mind that Dragon's Crown draws parallels with art not unlike Conan the Barbarian. Whether or not that appeals to an individual is irreverent. The game is very specifically drawn as erotic fantasy, heavily inspired by Nordic and European medieval art.

Like, I just don't get how people could look at someone like the Amazon and go "hurr fourteen year old boob fantasy". She's classically Amazonian eroticism: beautiful visage, gorgeous thick blonde locks, traditional curvaceous female anatomy, contrasted by an almost grotesque muscular physique of rippling abs, toned buttocks, and engorged thighs.

If that seems juvenile to someone, whatever. They're entitled to think that. I see medieval erotic fantasy, and an artist who knows exactly how to draw it.

EatChildren
Will Suck Thick Amazonian Abs While GAF Watches
(Today, 09:35 AM)

Other than that, the Conan correlations in this thread are on point. As an owner of 2 giant bins of Conan books, it was the first thing I thought of when I saw this game.

Spoiler

amazonian is giving me a taste for muscles noooooooooo

 

[SmokyDave]

How isnt it juvenile? The constant barrage of men with necks as thick as 5000 year old trees who are twice the size of female characters, who are always so disproportionate that picasso would think it strange.

Its completely juvenile, its the comic book wank material that infests most games these days.

Whats wrong with pointing it out? And why get offended by it? Its not like its a rare occurance, its 90% of the games released these days.

Women - overtly sexy. Men - moranically muscly. Its getting dull.

Its getting Anime levels of ridiculous.

Are these levels of exaggeration some sort of homage to the characters?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Yeah, I really don't like the character design in this game. I think the mix of hyper-exaggerated physique and the soft, painterly art doesn't mix at all- Vanillaware should really have thought about a different style for once.

Not that a style like, say, Skullgirls would have interested me more- the character design is just really lame- but at least it would have fit. Muramasa looks waaaaaay better than this does.

 

[Shinta]

This article, this one article, does not attack heterosexual erotica or heterosexual males..

Except you know, the author who drew it (juvenile, cheap), the art specifically and by association, most of the people who are interested in buying the game.

He literally called him a teenager. Is there a more blatant example of textbook emasculation? You're not even a man if you like this artwork. If you want to ignore what that means, again, that's up to you. It's plain as day.

 

[mullet2000]

Well, eroticism can be subjective, but I have no doubt in my mind that Dragon's Crown draws parallels with art not unlike Conan the Barbarian. Whether or not that appeals to an individual is irreverent. The game is very specifically drawn as erotic fantasy, heavily inspired by Nordic and European medieval art.

Like, I just don't get how people could look at someone like the Amazon and go "hurr fourteen year old boob fantasy". She's classically Amazonian eroticism: beautiful visage, gorgeous thick blonde locks, traditional curvaceous female anatomy, contrasted by an almost grotesque muscular physique of rippling abs, toned buttocks, and engorged thighs.

If that seems juvenile to someone, whatever. They're entitled to think that. I see medieval erotic fantasy, and an artist who knows exactly how to draw it.

I see the same thing.

I think it's just coming out at a weird time in the "games and sexism" debate where people are overreaching a bit with what constitutes exploitative art. Dragon's Crown clearly has an erotic fantasy theme going and I just don't think some people are looking at it in the right way and are completely missing the point.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Yeah, but they still slapped (relatively) big breasts on her. :\

I suppose, although they're not really the focal point of her design - her muscular frame is the star of the show, and that's pretty unique and refreshing in terms of tastes catered to in character design. Let's not forget about the ranger character, either, who's downright conservative compared to the sorceress and amazon. It's a lot more even-handed than Muramasa, at the very least.

 

[Fusebox]

He literally called him a teenager. Is there a more blatant example of emasculation? You're not even a man if you like this artwork.

Wait. JS called GK a teenager, not the other way round. Did I misunderstand your post or miss a quote? Or did you just murder the meaning of the word literally? I can't tell what's going on! Who's on who's side?

 

[Dead Man]

Except you know, the author who drew it (juvenile, cheap) and most of the people who are interested in buying the game.

He literally called him a teenager. Is there a more blatant example of emasculation? You're not even a man if you like this artwork. If you want to ignore what that means, again, that's up to you. It's plain as day.

Yes he did. And said nothing about heterosexual males at all. You really don't see the difference? And emasculation? Nice try, but you should probably rethink your usage of that word is you are going to throw it around in the context of one paragraph that discusses only a particular art style.

If I say that women who are attracted to giant muscles are juvenile and shallow, have I criticised heterosexual women in general?

Just because he criticised a group of people that includes members who are heterosexual males, does not mean he was attacking heterosexual males.

 

[Shinta]

Wait. JS called GK a teenager, not the other way round. Did I misunderstand your post or miss a quote? Or did you just murder the meaning of the word literally?

Yes. I was talking about JS.

 

[Femmeworth]

I suppose, although they're not really the focal point of her design - her muscular frame is the star of the show, and that's pretty unique and refreshing in terms of tastes catered to in character design. Let's not forget about the ranger character, either, who's downright conservative compared to the sorceress and amazon. It's a lot more even-handed than Muramasa, at the very least.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the Amazon is on the unconventional side just not as much as they could have gone with it. I agree about the archer.

 

[ULTROS!]

Wait. JS called GK a teenager, not the other way round. Did I misunderstand your post or miss a quote? Or did you just murder the meaning of the word literally? I can't tell what's going on! Who's on who's side?

"As you can see, the sorceress was designed by a 14-year-old boy. Perhaps game development studios should stop hiring teenagers?"

 

[gundamkyoukai]

So one guy. I don't think that is emblematic of 'you guys saying all this stuff'. But fair enough, one guy said it.

The trailer thread for the Sorceress was full of people like that .
Fans of the game just getting tired of it all , the Sorceress thread has over 900 post the trailer for the Dwarf came out and did not even get 200 .

 

[hammster]

Responding to criticism by calling the guy who wrote it gay. He sure showed that nasty Schreier that he ISN'T a teenage boy, huh?

 

[ssoass]

Don't people know by now that Vanillaware games are very stylized?
Odin Sphere and Muramasa both had unique beautiful art styles and it's one of the things people love most about these games.

 

[Fusebox]

"As you can see, the sorceress was designed by a 14-year-old boy."

Yeah I'm back on track now.

I'm with you guys, I reckon JS has mummy issues. Must've been breastfed for too long. Or not long enough. Or raised in an Amish community or something.

 

[Replicant]

I thought the article is pretty ridiculous. I mean it's just an art style. Either you like it or you don't.

But the response is equally childish and homophobic. So, can we just lock them up in a room to fight it off?