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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war

jason10mm

Gold Member
Considering Israel will never agree to a permanent ceasefire, there would be no need for third party military personnel to enter the war zone, at least as things stand. Some form of an agreement could just include a partial hostage release and a temporary ceasefire to allow aid infrastructure to be rebuilt. This would be actual progress. I don't know how the UN Security Council functions, I don't think it's a straight forward process to intervene in wars to begin with. But when I say that they can impose a ceasefire because they have the power to do so, I'm not strictly talking about military enforcement, but through sanctions that force one's hand.
I don't think that is true. I think Hamas COULD surrender, face justice, drag their corrupt leaders out from their hiding holes, return all hostages or their remains, and Gazan's could make a COMMITTMENT to change, remove all the imams preaching hate, scrub their school curriculum of anti-semitic propaganda and in general stop being colossal dicks to EVERYONE...but I think we can all agree that ain't gonna happen.

I think that area is, at best, gonna be subject to a DECADES long reconstruction on the scale of what Japan, Germany, or the American South had to endure. How well the end result is greatly depends on Gazan willingness to acknowledge they are on a bad path and need to change.
 

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
I don't think that is true. I think Hamas COULD surrender, face justice, drag their corrupt leaders out from their hiding holes, return all hostages or their remains, and Gazan's could make a COMMITTMENT to change, remove all the imams preaching hate, scrub their school curriculum of anti-semitic propaganda and in general stop being colossal dicks to EVERYONE...but I think we can all agree that ain't gonna happen.

I think that area is, at best, gonna be subject to a DECADES long reconstruction on the scale of what Japan, Germany, or the American South had to endure. How well the end result is greatly depends on Gazan willingness to acknowledge they are on a bad path and need to change.

Yeah not gonna happen. We know the history.
They will only double down on it. At best, you will get short-term false promises (Taqiyya), but as soon as things will be slightly normal from their PoV, they will revert to earlier methods.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
This thing will go on forever. It makes no difference if Israel wipes out all of Gaza or has the best precision in the world to take down aggressors with perfect accuracy and no civilian casualties.

That's because the ideology of Jew hating will persist. It's a born and bred ideology supported from toddler age. So even if Gaza is cleansed in some sort of way, it'll just go back to Hamas kind of stuff later. It's different with things like Japan and Germans in WWII trying to take over because that stuff was pushed from a military government stance. Allies win and the Axis topple and probably most Axis soldiers are happy it's over. It's not like Hitler dies and all the German soldiers keep going as long as possible hating the rest of Europe trying to take over every city. It ended. They were recruited through conscription or forced into battle just because their career job so happens was in the military. Anti-Jew rhetoric wont go away if Hamas leaders are killed. It'll still be around within the populace because it's learned. You can see it around the world in mobs and protests despite being 10,000 miles away.

The only way the battle will end is one part Israel taking charge and controlling the masses and some kind of long term education where everyone young and old change views to tolerant. Good luck with that happening any time soon (if ever). And also important, having a solid economy where people work together and everyone prospers. Money and jobs works wonders. When people have a career, keep busy and can focus on family and paying bills, you got no time for dumb shit.

That's why in general (I think), places with high costs and standard of living seem to be safe and tolerant. People are too busy working and keeping their nose clean because they dont want to fuck things up. They need to earn money, dont get fired best as possible doing dumb stuff and pay for things to get through life.
 
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YCoCg

Member
That's why in general (I think), places with high costs and standard of living seem to be safe and tolerant. People are too busy working and keeping their nose clean because they dont want to fuck things up. They need to earn money, dont get fired best as possible doing dumb stuff and pay for things to get through life.
How the fuck do you always manage to turn things around to an excuse to keep wages low enough for your workers so they "work hard"? We get it, you're a stingy fuck, your post was well enough without this tagged on crap at the end.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
How the fuck do you always manage to turn things around to an excuse to keep wages low enough for your workers so they "work hard"? We get it, you're a stingy fuck, your post was well enough without this tagged on crap at the end.
Did you even read what I said? I’m saying improve the economy so it helps people prosper. Keep busy with a job to make some money. Gaza unemployment was like 40% even before IDF stormed through which means a good chunk of adults in the area are sitting at home.

So what you’re saying since you disagree with me is keep the Gaza economy crap and hope things turn around. Ya, thats sure going to work.
 
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YCoCg

Member
Did you even read what I said? I’m saying improve the economy so it helps people prosper. Keep busy with a job to make some money. Gaza unemployment was like 40% even before IDF stormed through which means a good chunk of adults in the area are sitting at home.

So what you’re saying since you disagree with me is keep the Gaza economy crap and hope things turn around. Ya, thats sure going to work.
That's not what I'm saying at all and you know that. I'm pointing out how you always interject your boss philosophy of wanting to keep people fearful of losing their jobs because you pay them just about enough to live wage to wage but not enough to do anything else. We get it, that's how you run things where you work and you think you're king dick that you have it all figured out. 🙄

The rest of your post was good but then you had to go and ruin it with your stealth "now if they ran things like I do..." Schtick.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Its crazy to me that here in the West we're still trying to make moral equivalencies when the forces massing in opposition to us aren't wasting a second on this stuff!

That's not crazy. That's supposed to be one of the key differences between us and them. That we value life, especially innocent civilian life. It makes the task that much more difficult, but that is the burden of a morally superior position. The more civilians we kill the less moral authority our position holds.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
That's not what I'm saying at all and you know that. I'm pointing out how you always interject your boss philosophy of wanting to keep people fearful of losing their jobs because you pay them just about enough to live wage to wage but not enough to do anything else. We get it, that's how you run things where you work and you think you're king dick that you have it all figured out. 🙄

The rest of your post was good but then you had to go and ruin it with your stealth "now if they ran things like I do..." Schtick.
Read before reacting.

How you interpreted my last paragraph as livable wage kind of post/thread is nuts. But have at it.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's not crazy. That's supposed to be one of the key differences between us and them. That we value life, especially innocent civilian life. It makes the task that much more difficult, but that is the burden of a morally superior position. The more civilians we kill the less moral authority our position holds.

Moral superiority is also the province of zealots and all kinds of true believers.

A brainwashed kid with a martyrdom vest has it to a degree unimaginable to most of us.

It kinda pains me to point this out, because generally I do agree with what you're saying. But my point is that morality is about conformity and fidelity to an established order within a belief system, and belief systems are often antithetical to one-another.

So in the end, its always going to devolve to civilizational values and civilizational conflict. Ultimately, that's what we're looking at in Gaza. And that being the case I'm not sure how our values figure into that.
 

wa600

Member


One thing that this war has shown me is how rotten organizations like Amnesty International are.
Disgusting Tweet. Disgusting organization. I went through their tweet timeline and the last time Israeli hostages were mentioned was in November during the hostage deal. There is a lot of anti-Israel posts though and one single tweet mentioned Hamas (must abide by international rules so that the aid can reach civilians).
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Not a single person here has said or insinuated this.
back for us. Part of the motivation for 9/11 is blowback for that. Billions for free annually in aid. Now the US is literally legally on the hook for potential crimes from aiding genocide while you talk about scare tactics. The diplomatic cost is impossible to quantify. We could honestly do fine for our own interests aligning with all middle eastern countries, even Iran. But instead we're mortal enemies just to back you guys up and we really get nothing for it. You didnt seem like you were crying when Israel just bombed a foreign government embassy. You were making a Lord of the Rings joke about it. Iran's backlash for that is likely to hit US military. That was an insane WW3 level of p
^
 

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
This thing will go on forever. It makes no difference if Israel wipes out all of Gaza or has the best precision in the world to take down aggressors with perfect accuracy and no civilian casualties.

That's because the ideology of Jew hating will persist. It's a born and bred ideology supported from toddler age. So even if Gaza is cleansed in some sort of way, it'll just go back to Hamas kind of stuff later. It's different with things like Japan and Germans in WWII trying to take over because that stuff was pushed from a military government stance. Allies win and the Axis topple and probably most Axis soldiers are happy it's over. It's not like Hitler dies and all the German soldiers keep going as long as possible hating the rest of Europe trying to take over every city. It ended. They were recruited through conscription or forced into battle just because their career job so happens was in the military. Anti-Jew rhetoric wont go away if Hamas leaders are killed. It'll still be around within the populace because it's learned. You can see it around the world in mobs and protests despite being 10,000 miles away.

The only way the battle will end is one part Israel taking charge and controlling the masses and some kind of long term education where everyone young and old change views to tolerant. Good luck with that happening any time soon (if ever). And also important, having a solid economy where people work together and everyone prospers. Money and jobs works wonders. When people have a career, keep busy and can focus on family and paying bills, you got no time for dumb shit.

That's why in general (I think), places with high costs and standard of living seem to be safe and tolerant. People are too busy working and keeping their nose clean because they dont want to fuck things up. They need to earn money, dont get fired best as possible doing dumb stuff and pay for things to get through life.

About the 're-education part. Even that won't be allowed to happen cause it would be deemed 'Islamophobia'. It's easier to do with political ideologies (like Nazis) but much harder to do with religious ideologies.
To be honest, the political-religious ideology of Islam is a very very huge part of the issue and nobody knows what to do about that.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
About the 're-education part. Even that won't be allowed to happen cause it would be deemed 'Islamophobia'. It's easier to do with political ideologies (like Nazis) but much harder to do with religious ideologies.
To be honest, the political-religious ideology of Islam is a very very huge part of the issue and nobody knows what to do about that.
The issue is that no one talks about it.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
...and that's because questioning one religion might also bring up a whole load of uncomfortable questions about your own.
Well, it's not like Christianity hasn't had it's own internal schisms about what is "right". I'm not totally up on the Shia/Sunni differences and wahhabi to know if those map well to protestant vs catholic vs methodist vs baptist differences but it's certainly a thing to revamp your religion, might be time for Islam to have a progressive one.
 

Kenpachii

Member
It has nothing to do with islam, it has everything to do with the ruling party in those country's and how they indoctrinate there population. Islam is everywhere in your country, in your school and in your work place and u probably didn't even realize it because those people are normal people that aren't radicalized.

What isreal needs is far stronger leadership. What i would have done since day one is declare war and start carpet bombing militairy targets, then invade and rebuild with isreal as a ruling party. Start china work factory's with daily lessons about how to be a good muslim but also how to behave and teach them all. The older people will naturally die after a certain point and the younger people will get more and more brainwashed until it becomes the norm.

Hell i would even invite china to heavily play there part in the country for security reasons and to start forming a colony in the middle east right next towards isreal.

The country's around that protests can all freely absorb the population into there country's if they feel so badly about it if not they can gtfo.

What u got however. Is a invasion that goes nowhere. No plans, no end goals, no nothing.
 
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It has nothing to do with islam, it has everything to do with the ruling party in those country's and how they indoctrinate there population. Islam is everywhere in your country, in your school and in your work place and u probably didn't even realize it because those people are normal people that aren't radicalized.

You are kidding right? The influence of Islam, its followers and its culture on our schools here in Belgium is insane. The level in education has gone down significantly because of this group. Most of them refuse to even adjust to our rules, let alone raise their children with a western mindset, causing everyone in the class to fall behind and not develop as they should. I say this as a parent of a 4 year old that has 80%(!!!!) arab/muslims in her class where maybe one of them knows how to speak the countries language...

We tried to avoid this by sending her to a christian school, even though we're atheïsts. I can't imagine what it's like in other none catholic schools.

That has an effect on my daughters ability to play / learn / evolve because she can hardly interact with these people. The teacher even has a list of Moroccan words for gods sake to interact with these kids...
 
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Thaedolus

Member


A law student asserting her 1st amendment right to protest at a private residence sure is something…I like to think I can see multiple points of view and understand where people are coming from, but it’s a rare feat to be so profoundly wrong on everything. So bravo for that I guess.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח


I want to clarify my earlier stance, and one that I stick to. I forgot about why I said the blockade of no fuel or food should've continued, and that was no food or fuel until hostages are released. Release hostages, get fuel and food, and so on. My bad.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member


I want to clarify my earlier stance, and one that I stick to. I forgot about why I said the blockade of no fuel or food should've continued, and that was no food or fuel until hostages are released. Release hostages, get fuel and food, and so on. My bad.

This is such a rational and natural desire that it ASTOUNDS me that folks could some how overlook hostage taking AS A METHOD OF WARFARE to be in any way ok and expect Israel to just sorta forgive it and work around it.

Freeing every single hostage and turning over every Gazan savage that kept one until they died should be the BARE MINIMUM response tolerated by the rest of the world before any discussion of a ceasefire or resolution to the conflict is brought up.

Failing to hold Hamas/Gaza to this dirt floor level of standards is just gonna make a "snatch n grab" mission the de facto opening move by any barbaric state against a more civilized one. As a planet we need to emphasize that this is 10000% not okay under any circumstances.
 
You are kidding right? The influence of Islam, its followers and its culture on our schools here in Belgium is insane.
I've been to Morocco several times, and they are very different from the european Moroccans, you can even find videos of people showing them of European moroccan behaviour and they comment on how they don't recognise why they are that way. From what I've read people believe it's because the first generation that moved to france, germany, belgium etc. as migrant workers, were the highly religious conservative ones and that's what they passed on to their kids, while in Morocco they seem to be a much smaller group.



A law student asserting her 1st amendment right to protest at a private residence sure is something…I like to think I can see multiple points of view and understand where people are coming from, but it’s a rare feat to be so profoundly wrong on everything. So bravo for that I guess.

Why doesn't anyone just pick her up and remove her from the property? Insane to me people just do nothing and sit and watch.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Israel is a world power now and absolutely should be held to a higher standard, just as the US is.

Israel is nowhere near a world power, it maintains a strong image but it doesn't even crack the top ten in terms of economic influence or military might.

Edit: As a matter of fact, based on these two sources, it looks like Israel doesn't even crack the top 20 in either!

More importantly, this war is proving the second part of your statement to also be false. According to expert opinions in the U.S. military, Israel is being held to a higher standard than the US, and that's part of the problem.


This is just one out of numerous pieces Spencer has recently written for Newsweek about this war. I recommend reading others as well.

About the author:
John Spencer is an award-winning scholar, professor, author, combat veteran, national security and military analyst, and internationally recognized expert and advisor on urban warfare, military strategy, tactics, and other related topics. Considered one of the world’s leading expert on urban warfare, he served as an advisor to the top four-star general and other senior leaders in the U.S. Army as part of strategic research groups from the Pentagon to the United States Military Academy.

He is the author of three books: Understanding Urban Warfare, (Howgate Publishing, 2022), Connected Soldiers: Life, Leadership, and Social Connections in Modern War (Potomac Books, 2022; Winner of the 2023 Gold Medal Award, Best Military History Memoir, Military Writers Society of America), The Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender (John Spencer, 2022).

Spencer currently serves as the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point, Co-Director of the Urban Warfare Project, and host of the Urban Warfare Project podcast. He also serves as the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies with the Madison Policy Forum, a New York based think-tank. He is a founding member of the International Working Group on Subterranean Warfare.

In February 2022, Spencer wrote a guide, The Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender, for the citizens of Ukraine on how to defend their cities. The manual was translated into Ukrainian and spread widely across all of Ukraine. It is now available in sixteen separate languages with many other translations in the works.

Serving over twenty-five years in the active Army as an infantry soldier, Spencer has held ranks from Private to Sergeant First Class and Second Lieutenant to Major while serving in elite and storied military units from the 75th Ranger Regiment, 173rd Airborne, to the 4th Infantry Division. His assignments as an Army officer included two combat deployments to Iraq as both an Infantry Platoon Leader and Company Commander, a Ranger Instructor with the Army’s Ranger School, a Joint Chief of Staff and Army Staff intern, fellow with the Chief of Staff of the Army’s Strategic Studies Group, and Co-Founder, Strategic Planner, and Deputy Director of the Modern War Institute at West Point. While teaching at West Point he received the West Point Apgar Award for Excellence in Teaching.

After active duty, Spencer served as a Colonel in the California State Guard with assignment to the 40th Infantry Division, California Army National Guard as the Director of Urban Warfare Training.

Spencer holds a Master of Policy Management from Georgetown University.

His writings have appeared in the Time Magazine, New York Times, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, LA Times, NY Daily News, Wired Magazine, Politico, The Hill, Foreign Policy Magazine, Defense One, Army Magazine, and many other publications. Spencer is also a regular military analyst and commentator for CNN, MSNBC, FOX, BBC, and numerous news and media organizations.
Taken from here.
 
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efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
There's a mighty fine line between scare tactics and terrorism.

I spent my childhood years in the U.S. and my adult years in Israel, so I hope you believe me when I say that line only looks fine from far away.
The middle east operates within that line pretty much on a daily basis, and coming from the west it looks shocking at first, but in time you learn to better understand the difference between statements and actions, and also between actions that are mistakes and ones that are intentional and premeditated.

I don't blame anyone for not having a more developed ability to deal with this kind of nuance. Believe me, I wish I didn't have to develop such an ability myself. It's a very ugly domain of thought and perception in which to dwell. But there is nuance in it that the rest of the world often seems to miss, and this benefits one side more than the other.
 

wa600

Member


A law student asserting her 1st amendment right to protest at a private residence sure is something…I like to think I can see multiple points of view and understand where people are coming from, but it’s a rare feat to be so profoundly wrong on everything. So bravo for that I guess.

GK2iN5MaAAAnJTd



And then act like you are the victim afterwards and call it blatant Islamophobia and anti-Palestinian racism :messenger_grinning_squinting:
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Why on earth do we need the United Nations if they're selective in their peacekeeping efforts? What do we need international law for if we simply allow violence at large scales to exist?
I think you were trying to make the opposite point, but the truth is that the UN is extremely selective in its peacekeeping efforts and regularly allows the most heinous acts of violence to exist at large scales, while focusing an overwhelming majority of its resources on lesser acts.

Moreover, this isn't accidental.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
...and that's because questioning one religion might also bring up a whole load of uncomfortable questions about your own.
So? Learn to live a little less comfortably. Is that not the morally superior thing to do in this case?

See, that's part of what people not living in the west view as hypocrisy coming from Europe, the U.S. etc.

You claim to be morally superior (which you are most certainly not, but that's a bigger discussion), but aren't willing to make concessions that affect your comfortable lifestyle.
 
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efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?


One thing that this war has shown me is how rotten organizations like Amnesty International are.
Disgusting Tweet. Disgusting organization. I went through their tweet timeline and the last time Israeli hostages were mentioned was in November during the hostage deal. There is a lot of anti-Israel posts though and one single tweet mentioned Hamas (must abide by international rules so that the aid can reach civilians).

For those unfamiliar, Walid Daqqa was imprisoned for the kidnapping and murder of an off duty Israeli soldier, but not before gouging the man's eyes out and mutilating his genitals while he was still alive.
Also, he died of cancer, which he was being treated for in Israel for a time. Daqqa never repented, and also continued to commit smaller crimes from within prison, which is why his sentence was extended and early release denied.

If I came across two so blatantly different accounts of the same event as mine and Amnesty International, I too would be highly skeptical.
So don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself. We live in a completely farcical world where a human rights organization can only characterize this man as "a writer" and use his death to tarnish Israel.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
For those unfamiliar, Walid Daqqa was imprisoned for murdering an Israeli man, but not before gouging the man's eyes out and mutilating his genitals while he was still alive.
Also, he died of cancer, which I believe he was being treated for in Israel.

If I came across two so blatantly different accounts of the same event as mine and Amnesty International, I too would be highly skeptical.
So don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself. We live in a completely farcical world where a human rights organization can only characterize this man as "a writer" and use his death to tarnish Israel.
I dont know the history of the guy and whether its true or not what he did, but it doesn't really matter.

I'm pretty confident that in general the rest of the world treads lightly on heinous Islam kinds of mobs and violence because the last thing the leaders or media or whomever want is a beheading bullseye on on their heads. Lets face it, no other extremists in any other religion resort to such volatile numbnut attacks. So just like an unstable dog ready to pounce on anyone walking by on the sidewalk, you just keep walking. Dont look at the dog, dont talk to it, just move. Because if you piss it off somehow, it'll hop the fence and doesn't give a shit no matter how many times it bites you.
 

FunkMiller

Member
So? Learn to live a little less comfortably. Is that not the morally superior thing to do in this case?

See, that's part of what people not living in the west view as hypocrisy coming from Europe, the U.S. etc.

You claim to be morally superior (which you are most certainly not, but that's a bigger discussion), but aren't willing to make concessions that affect your comfortable lifestyle.

What? I’m talking about religious people. I’m not religious. What’s all this ‘you’ business?

Come On Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
 

Ozriel

M$FT


A law student asserting her 1st amendment right to protest at a private residence sure is something…I like to think I can see multiple points of view and understand where people are coming from, but it’s a rare feat to be so profoundly wrong on everything. So bravo for that I guess.


Why the fuck can’t they expel assholes like these ones?
She should have been arrested for trespassing and tossed out of the school.

World’s gone soft.
 

Thaedolus

Member
Why the fuck can’t they expel assholes like these ones?
She should have been arrested for trespassing and tossed out of the school.

World’s gone soft.
Not sure about expelling for this behavior, but absolutely could be arrested or walked out for trespassing after she was asked to leave by the owners. And that’s why it’s so laughable that a 3L law student is citing the first amendment…excuse me but I never went to law school, but spend my professional life in the codes of US federal regulations and I know the 1st amendment says “CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW…”

Guess what bitch I’m not congress and this is my house so fuck off outta here, please and thank you.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
What? I’m talking about religious people. I’m not religious. What’s all this ‘you’ business?

Come On Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
What I mean is learn to live in a society that can deal with the social tension of being more self critical of its more outdated elements, even the ones that are geographically closer to you and probably feature more prominently in the beliefs of the people you come in contact with on a more regular basis.

I'm not religious either and I'm saying it's possible to be extremely critical of Islam as well as the more dangerous elements Christianity and Judaism that you likely come in contact with more often.
 

Meicyn

Gold Member
CENTCOM CC is still in Israel, extended his trip by a day. Wonder if Iran will hold off until after he departs.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
Some cunt just stabbed a load of people in Sydney to death, it what appears to be an attack by an arab on Jewish Australians.

Have no doubt he’ll be defended by people on places like Era as only reacting to Israeli aggression.
When weak leader can't condemn anti-semitism without also condemning islamophobia it emboldens people like that. And like I keep saying, this isn't about Israel. Muslims are growing up to hate Jews, and don't think of us as humans.
 
I've been to Morocco several times, and they are very different from the european Moroccans, you can even find videos of people showing them of European moroccan behaviour and they comment on how they don't recognise why they are that way. From what I've read people believe it's because the first generation that moved to france, germany, belgium etc. as migrant workers, were the highly religious conservative ones and that's what they passed on to their kids, while in Morocco they seem to be a much smaller group.


Why doesn't anyone just pick her up and remove her from the property? Insane to me people just do nothing and sit and watch.

Or just turn the hose on her. 😋
 

T-0800

Member
Some cunt just stabbed a load of people in Sydney to death, it what appears to be an attack by an arab on Jewish Australians.

Have no doubt he’ll be defended by people on places like Era as only reacting to Israeli aggression.
At least I live in a country where he could only kill 5 because he had to use a knife. Imagine if this clown had easy access to automatic fire arms.
 

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
So Iranian commando just took hold of a ship partially owned by an Israeli holdings company, with no Israelis on board.

 

near

Gold Member
So Iranian commando just took hold of a ship partially owned by an Israeli holdings company, with no Israelis on board.

I guess this is how Iran responds, with a possible trade blockade.
 
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