Support NeoGAF

[Sarobi]

I played the Vita demo a few years back at E3. It was really simplistic, and not at all what it's like now. I thought at the time it would of been a great game for the vita.

 

[tornjaw]

Dear Kickstarter devs:

Stop promising things unless you're completely sure you can deliver them.

Sincerely,

Everyone

My thoughts exactly. Some of these devs promise platforms or offer them as stretch goals and that encourages people to donate to get the project to that goal and usually there are other goals in between. Offering a refund it's the least they can do, but in my eyes, it's not enough.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Seeing posts like this:

Exactly, use another engine.

and this

The game doesn't look all that impressive. It looks like it could run on generation 6 hardware easily...

makes me feel bad for the kind of uninformed bullshit game developers (especially independent ones) have to deal with. Would make me want to run and hide rather than interact and open a dialogue with the gaming community.

 

[Quonny]

Exactly, use another engine.

lol

Yeah bro just make the game over from scratch, ezpz.

 

[PixyJunket]

And if all you have is a Vita or WiiU...what?

That's all I have.

 

[spazchicken]

My thoughts exactly. Some of these devs promise platforms or offer them as stretch goals and that encourages people to donate to get the project to that goal and usually there are other goals in between. Offering a refund it's the least they can do, but in my eyes, it's not enough.

There will be blood...

 

[CopperPuppy]

I was waiting for this on glorious OLED, but I'll just switch to PS4 or PC. No biggie. Glad he made the decision that's right for his own personal well-being.

GAF, help me out. PS4 or PC for this one?

 

[Cookie Dough]

Dear Kickstarter devs:

Stop promising things unless you're completely sure you can deliver them.

Sincerely,

Everyone

I understand this sentiment but people also need to stop giving money to Kickstarters if they are not okay with the scope of a project changing. You aren't preordering the game, you are donating money and this must always be remembered.

Things change and developers have a right to change plans as they see fit. Since people donated money to their efforts there is no one to refund.

I personally am not okay with giving money to something that could very well not pan out as presented and it's for this reason that to this day I still have never backed anything on Kickstarter and probably never will.

 

[Maxrunner]

Seeing posts like this:



and this



makes me feel bad for the kind of uninformed bullshit game developers (especially independent ones) have to deal with. Would make me want to run and hide rather than interact and open a dialogue with the gaming community.

I was comparing this with axiom verge.They had to port the engine to work with wiiu right?. So how's that uninformed bullshit?

 

[Ravidrath]

I need source on this, because I contacted Yoyogames MYSELF and they told me they weren't interested in making Gamemaker for WiiU at all.

I was just referencing the video.

https://youtu.be/mFvzI0xGgTg?t=2m

He said he was promised and was shown a native port in 2013, and then it sat in limbo because Nintendo and Yoyogames couldn't come to an agreement.

I was comparing this with axiom verge.They had to port the engine to work with wiiu right?. So how's that uninformed bullshit?

Because you have no comprehension of what you're actually saying.

Porting a game is not remaking a game entirely for a new platform. It's rejiggering a small amount of code, UI, etc. to work with the APIs of a different platform.

Imagine that Axiom Verge was made using Unreal for PS4. And then Unreal added native support for Wii U. You make a few changes, export the game, and it's done. It's a few months work.

Now imagine that Axiom Verge was made in Unreal for PS4, and Unreal isn't supported on the Wii U. To get it on here, he'd have to completely remake the game in an entirely new engine with different rules, tools, standards, code, etc.

The only thing he could reuse would be the art. Everything else would have to start from scratch.

 

[ScientificPizza]

The game doesn't look all that impressive. It looks like it could run on generation 6 hardware easily...

🙄🙄🙄🙄

This is a shame. It would be the perfect Vita game

 

[spazchicken]

I was waiting for this on glorious OLED, but I'll just switch to PS4 or PC. No biggie. Glad he made the decision that's right for his own personal well-being.

GAF, help me out. PS4 or PC for this one?

I always go with PC for everything if given the choice because it'll be with you forever. If there's a PS6 15 years from now, will it be backwards compatible?

 

[rackham]

Can someone explain what's stopping him from having a third party do all the work?

 

[Slixshot]

That's alright. Game is wonderful. Play it on PS4.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Can someone explain what's stopping him from having a third party do all the work?

He explains it. In the video. In the OP.

 

[mStudios]

I was just referencing the video.

https://youtu.be/mFvzI0xGgTg?t=2m

He said he was promised and was shown a native port in 2013, and then it sat in limbo because Nintendo and Yoyogames couldn't come to an agreement.

Well then, Yoyogames straight up lied to him. There is even indie middleware for WiiU, such as construct and another html5 engine which name I don't remember.
Yoyo wasn't willing to work with Nintendo at all.

Yoyogames just wanted that sweet free advertisement.

 

[Altairre]

I was comparing this with axiom verge.They had to port the engine to work with wiiu right?. So how's that uninformed bullshit?

Quoting this again since you apparently missed it.

Axiom Verge is its own engine, so it's an entirely different thing.

Also

My thoughts exactly. Some of these devs promise platforms or offer them as stretch goals and that encourages people to donate to get the project to that goal and usually there are other goals in between. Offering a refund it's the least they can do, but in my eyes, it's not enough.

Especially with a Kickstarter project, how is offering a refund not enough?

 

[PixyJunket]

Yeah bro just make the game over from scratch, ezpz.

Maybe it's not easy, but they took an extra $100,000 in donations to do so.

 

[Cookie Dough]

All issues aside regarding this, it has to be pointed out again just how damn good this game is. I really feel like HLD has not received the buzz it deserves. Anyone who passed on it please give it another look. It is a fantastic game.

 

[HStallion]

People need to stop treating kick starter like a pre order. It's basically a glorified donation. You should know full well things cold change greatly from the initial funding pitch and concept and might never release at all.

 

[rackham]

He explains it. In the video. In the OP.

Sorry. Guess I'll watch when I'm home. Only capable of reading atm. At work on mobile

 

[Altairre]

Maybe it's not easy, but they took an extra $100,000 in donations to do so.

They're offering a refund. What's the problem?

 

[Ravidrath]

Can someone explain what's stopping him from having a third party do all the work?

Because they would have to completely remake the game, which is stupid and not feasible.

He made it using a middleware, GameMaker which does not support the Wii U and the Vita support is poor because they pushe the engine beyond what it was meant to do.

So "porting" it would mean completely remaking the game from scratch, in this case.

Not only is that expensive and a ton of work, it's a terrible investment given the future sales potential on those systems.

Maybe it's not easy, but they took an extra $100,000 in donations to do so.

$100k is nothing if you're not porting within the same engine.

For a game like HLD w/ Gamemaker, $100k is mostly QA and bugfixing costs with some buffer.

 

[xxracerxx]

I was comparing this with axiom verge.They had to port the engine to work with wiiu right?. So how's that uninformed bullshit?

Because you still have not idea what you are talking about.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Sorry. Guess I'll watch when I'm home. Only capable of reading atm. At work on mobile

basically it would still require a ton of resources to essentially remake the game twice, even if they are working with an outside studio, to make sure it's up to standard. It's just not reasonable or feasible.

 

[trejo]

Maybe next time don't make promises you can't keep then?

 

[Madame M]

I take it the health problem is eye related based on Hyper Light Drifter's graphical style

 

[rackham]

basically it would still require a ton of resources to essentially remake the game twice, even if they are working with an outside studio, to make sure it's up to standard.

So maybe I'm thinking about this completely wrong but they were never going to do cross buy for ps4/vita. What if they got a third party through Sony to do the work and share in the vita sales only since heart machine won't be making money from vita users?


I understand having to literally remake everything from the ground up on a new engine, but how long could something like this take if everything from the level design to the soundtrack is already done?


Probably missing something here. I own the game on ps4. Pretty close to platinum. Like 6 gear bits away. I was really really looking forward to the vita version. Was willing to buy twice, especially if there was cross save. Would still buy without cross save.

 

[Granjinha]

Really? This sucks. It's the best game of the year, so I hope it picks up with future sales.

best game you didn't play

I'M WATCHING YOU

 

[StrangeRoboMemory]

This is an amazing game and I loved it. If you wanted it for Wii U or Vita and have some other way to play it, I encourage you to go for it. I definitely wish the dev the best.

 

[Maxrunner]

Because you still have not idea what you are talking about.

Enlighten me please.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

So maybe I'm thinking about this completely wrong but they were never going to do cross buy for ps4/vita. What if they got a third party through Sony to do the work and share in the vita sales only since heart machine won't be making money from vita users?


I understand having to literally remake everything from the ground up on a new engine, but how long could something like this take if everything from the level design to the soundtrack is already done?


Probably missing something here. I own the game on ps4. Pretty close to platinum. Like 6 gear bits away. I was really really looking forward to the vita version. Was willing to buy twice, especially if there was cross save. Would still buy without cross save.

The Vita and WIi U are dead platforms. Once you start talking about partnering with Sony or hiring outside developers, you are talking about sinking significant resources into a project, a project for two dead platforms that probably would not be worth it in the long run. It sucks for the people that donated with those platforms in mind, but he's also refunding the money for those people, which is a pretty stand up thing to do. Not sure what else people can expect at this point going forward.

 

[Gbraga]

best game you didn't play

I'M WATCHING YOU

Playing games is a waste of time, talking shit about them is the real fun.

 

[PixyJunket]

They're offering a refund. What's the problem?

No, I think that's good, but that should be pointed out since it sounds like some people think he was doing it out of charity or whatever.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Enlighten me please.

Ravidrath already did that above. Might wanna take a look.

 

[Malakai]

Seeing posts like this:



and this



makes me feel bad for the kind of uninformed bullshit game developers (especially independent ones) have to deal with. Would make me want to run and hide rather than interact and open a dialogue with the gaming community.

Shouldn't make goals that they can't keep. Don't care. The game have very simplistic graphics (nothing wrong with simplistic graphics at all). I don't understand why smaller game developers today can't make a game that doesn't require usage of a middleware engine that doesn't support all current platforms when in the past a lot of games were coded without them(which this game takes inspiration from). Perhaps, initially, I should have had written that the the game doesn't look too demanding.

 

[jholmes]

People need to stop treating kick starter like a pre order. It's basically a glorified donation. You should know full well things cold change greatly from the initial funding pitch and concept and might never release at all.

I understand some people wanting to underline why they're apprehensive about Kickstarter, but at a certain point this argument is giving people carte blanche to say one thing and do another. I've backed some good Kickstarter projects and some mediocre ones, and I can forgive the quality not quite being where I had expected, or a feature getting cut. But when a dev isn't quite forthright with backers or, in this case, makes a big deal about something then doesn't deliver (I'd consider asking for $100,000 a big deal) I think we should hold people somewhat accountable.

Now, make no mistake, this guy needs to put his health first and if canning the Vita and Wii U ports is what that takes, so be it. But the lesson here shouldn't be that Kickstarter is a license to break promises.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Shouldn't make goals that they can't keep. Don't care. The game have very simplistic graphics (nothing wrong with simplistic graphics at all). I don't understand why smaller game developers today can't make a game that doesn't require usage of a middleware engine that doesn't support all current platforms when in the past a lot of games were coded without them(which this game takes inspiration from). Perhaps, initially, I should have had written that the the game doesn't look too demanding.

It's obvious you don't care because you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Greatest Ever]

No buy from me then.

I wish the developer nothing but the best but promising a platform in advance, especially the Vita for me, has become an annoying habit of developers. Eventual stalling is annoying; either cancel it early or don't keep me waiting.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Exactly, use another engine.

yep all you have to do to make your very own video game engine is say the magic words! so easy :")

 

[Altairre]

I understand some people wanting to underline why they're apprehensive about Kickstarter, but at a certain point this argument is giving people carte blanche to say one thing and do another. I've backed some good Kickstarter projects and some mediocre ones, and I can forgive the quality not quite being where I had expected, or a feature getting cut. But when a dev isn't quite forthright with backers or, in this case, makes a big deal about something then doesn't deliver (I'd consider asking for $100,000 a big deal) I think we should hold people somewhat accountable.

Now, make no mistake, this guy needs to put his health first and if canning the Vita and Wii U ports is what that takes, so be it. But the lesson here shouldn't be that Kickstarter is a license to break promises.

But they intended to do it though. Hell, they even put work into the vita version. It didn't pan out, he made a video explaining exactly why that is the case and he's giving you back your money. On the other hand you're okay when a feature gets cut even if you don't have the option to get your money back? I just don't understand.

No buy from me then.

I wish the developer nothing but the best but promising a platform in advance, especially the Vita for me, has become an annoying habit of developers. Eventual stalling is annoying; either cancel it early or don't keep me waiting.

He explains why they made this decision now in the video. Seriously, are people even watching it or are these just drive by posts?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

For those that own the game on Steam, is it too graphically intensive or require high specs? I checked the Steam Page and after looking at the recommended specs, it seems to run on my low-end laptop well based on the details.

With the Vita version scrapped, will just get the game on Steam (don't own a PS4) when the time comes.

The game could possibly run on Surface Tablets. It's not a graphically demanding game so you should be able to run it on an average PC.

Vita and WiiU? Those platforms are dead compared to PC, PS4 and Xbox One. It's even out on Mac and Linux Why would anyone be upset about this or ask for a refund over just getting their ticket swapped to another platform?

And if all you have is a Vita or WiiU...what?

People play indie games on Vita and Wii U. It's not ridiculous to want to port your game over to those platforms.

 

[ATXAlchemy]

Especially with a Kickstarter project, how is offering a refund not enough?

Well, that 10$~ could have gone into investments and earned him a few hundred million dollars between now and the time of its kickstarter.

 

[slimfitcasual]

Best of luck Alex! I've enjoyed Hyper Light on both PC/Xbox, would have loved to play on Vita. Personal health must come first.

 

[Altairre]

Well, that 10$~ could have gone into investments and earned him a few hundred million dollars between now and the time of its kickstarter.

Dude if you are serious, then Kickstarter is not the place for you. What am I even reading? Assuming this is serious because I can't really tell anymore.

 

[RK128]

The game could possibly run on Surface Tablets. It's not a graphically demanding game so you should be able to run it on an average PC.

People play indie games on Vita and Wii U. It's not ridiculous to want to port your game over to those platforms.

Thank you for the answer ! When I get some free time & money, will get the game on PC for sure this year. Really appreciate you answering my question ElBoxyBrown and hope you have a great night .

 

[Altairre]

Shouldn't make goals that they can't keep. Don't care. The game have very simplistic graphics (nothing wrong with simplistic graphics at all). I don't understand why smaller game developers today can't make a game that doesn't require usage of a middleware engine that doesn't support all current platforms when in the past a lot of games were coded without them(which this game takes inspiration from). Perhaps, initially, I should have had written that the the game doesn't look too demanding.

Probably because you have no idea how game development works. Just my guess.

 

[HStallion]

I understand some people wanting to underline why they're apprehensive about Kickstarter, but at a certain point this argument is giving people carte blanche to say one thing and do another. I've backed some good Kickstarter projects and some mediocre ones, and I can forgive the quality not quite being where I had expected, or a feature getting cut. But when a dev isn't quite forthright with backers or, in this case, makes a big deal about something then doesn't deliver (I'd consider asking for $100,000 a big deal) I think we should hold people somewhat accountable.

Now, make no mistake, this guy needs to put his health first and if canning the Vita and Wii U ports is what that takes, so be it. But the lesson here shouldn't be that Kickstarter is a license to break promises.

And I'll reiterate that this kick starter is a glorified donation system. You can donate your money to the Red Cross but have little recourse if they don't use it as originally intended. You inherently take the risk the moment you put money down on a project. People keep talking about the size of the sums of money needed and that doesn't matter when inherently you are giving your money up on a hope and a dream. The size of the monetary contribution doesn't change that you are giving your money up, not purchasing something. It's a giant risk from day 1 and all the promises in the world don't change is fact.

 

[More_Badass]

My thoughts exactly. Some of these devs promise platforms or offer them as stretch goals and that encourages people to donate to get the project to that goal and usually there are other goals in between. Offering a refund it's the least they can do, but in my eyes, it's not enough.

Okay, so what else should the devs do then?

 

[Shizuka]

And I bet there are porting studios that'd gladly port this to those platforms given the opportunity.