• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hyper Light Drifter Wii U and Vita Ports Cancelled | Dev Health and Engine Concerns

O

Oregano

Member
charlequin said:
The context here is people complaining about developers dropping ports for failure systems that won't pay for themselves. For the Wii U, there was certainly some point after which it was clear this was the case -- start of 2014, probably, if not earlier -- and I would judge someone to have made a mistake to offer a Wii U port at any price after that point. For people who want to play games on Wii U, that wouldn't work out great either since the result would just be no ports of KS games, but it'd be safer and more responsible.

Before whatever timeframe that was, it was more justifiable to actually promise a Wii U port, but also more difficult to predict that something like their middleware failing in its promise to support the platform would happen.

Only the latter of these two scenarios is really exculpatory to making the initial promise. Both of them describe situations that are pretty bad for Wii U owners, but that's a consequence of it being a market failure that can't support significant revenue for these games.
Click to expand...

So what about stuff like Armikrog which got funded after promising a Wii U version?

They said it would come later than the PC version because they wanted to add Wii U specific features to make it the best version. It did eventually come out, at the same time as (non-funded) PS4 and XBO versions and with none of the features they promised.

Obviously it's best to give developers the benefit of the doubt but it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them offered Wii U/Vita versions because they knew those userbases were desperate for content and likely to provide a decent amount of funding and it doesn't really matter if you break the promises eventually because everyone will justify for them because of how little the systems have sold.

EDIT: Just for the record, the lack of accountability is exactly why I haven't funded any kickstarters.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Malakai said:
The game doesn't look all that impressive. It looks like it could run on generation 6 hardware easily...
Click to expand...
It's not about that, rather, who the game was made. The toolset used to create it doesn't support Vita or Wii U. He'd have to recreate the game using a new engine.
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
dark10x said:
It's not about that, rather, who the game was made. The toolset used to create it doesn't support Vita or Wii U. He'd have to recreate the game using a new engine.
Click to expand...

Lazy dev should have planned for this when he started.

I'm kidding about the lazy part.
 
H

HotHamBoy

Member
Tapejara said:
It seems to be a problem with Vita hardware, engine support and Sony's support. HLD isn't the only game that's had problems with its Vita version; Bastion had issues, Axiom Verge's Vita port came out a year after the PS4/PC release, The Binding of Issac's Afterbith DLC skipped Vita entirely due to performance issues (though it may still be coming based on a recent Nicalis Twitter poll), LOUD on Planet X's Vita port was delayed, and Salt & Sanctuary is taking a while as well.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, Darkest Dungeon is releasing on PS4 and Vita on the same day this month. That's really the only thing that matters.
 
K

Kresnik258

Member
Ravidrath said:
If it were the latter, maybe it'd be possible they could remove all extraneous objects, effects, environmental details, little flavor animations, etc. and it would help?

But that's still a lot of work, and I would argue it wouldn't be the same game.
Click to expand...

It's what Sickhead games did with Octodad on Vita and I'd argue that's very much still worth playing despite the objects being removed. In fact it's more of an issue for something like Octodad where nearly every object in the environment is designed to be interacted with.

OT: It's a real shame because I think the game looks great and would've liked to play it on Vita, but this is why I have never backed Vita Kickstarters (except for Muv-Luv, since I consider localizations a different kettle of fish). When things go wrong, the struggling platforms are always the ones to get jettisoned. It's sad, but I can understand the decision making process for it.

In any event, I hope the dev doesn't suffer quite as much stress as a result of finally getting this out in the open.
 
K

Kresnik258

Member
frankie_baby said:
Can see the wii u version still happening but would be shocked if they get it running on vita
Click to expand...

Of all the devs that could manage it, Armature are a fantastic choice. They got MGS2 outdoor sections running at 60fps as well as Injustice at the same framerate (with a visual downgrade).
 
R

Robert at Zeboyd Games

Banned
Morrigan Stark said:
Oof. I'm not surprised, though.

Vita cultists need to realize that yes, porting games to Vita is basically charity. xD
Click to expand...

Delayed or post-launch ports (like HLD would be) almost always do poorly, but obviously people are making money on Vita or Vita wouldn't still be getting games (sometimes exclusives in the case of Japanese devs). There might not be a ton of Vita owners, but the attach rate is sky high so if you keep your costs low and target the niche (generally anime-style RPG, visual novels, or music games), you can make a profit.
 
H

Hades Hotgun

Banned
I would love to have the game on my Vita and that was part of why I backed this project, but having already cleared the game on PS4 and playing for hours and watching my wife play it right now and enjoying the hell out of it all, I just want to say to the folks at Heart Machine and anyone involved in this game:

Thank you all so much for making such a terrific example of design and aesthetic and atmosphere and gameplay. I loved this game, even when it made me want to break my controller in half and I hope we get more like it in the future. Games like yours are why I am so happy to support Kickstarted projects int he first place.

Yeah, I am disappointed that I won't get to play it on my Vita, but that certainly pales in comparison to the hardship of actually making the game work on that platform given the limitations.

Good luck with your next project
hopefully with more reasonable trophies. 800 freakin dashes? One Shot? Really? Come on!
and thank you again for making one of my favorite games.
 
C

CazTGG

Member
Tapejara said:
It seems to be a problem with Vita hardware, engine support and Sony's support. HLD isn't the only game that's had problems with its Vita version; Bastion had issues, Axiom Verge's Vita port came out a year after the PS4/PC release, The Binding of Issac's Afterbith DLC skipped Vita entirely due to performance issues (though it may still be coming based on a recent Nicalis Twitter poll), LOUD on Planet X's Vita port was delayed, and Salt & Sanctuary is taking a while as well.
Click to expand...

Also worth noting that The Banner Saga was almost cancelled for the Vita at one point. I'm not surprised they weren't able to get it to run on the system, though I am disappointed since I was holding out for the Vita version.
 
M

MacTag

Banned
Purple Cheeto said:
Porting costs money. Nobody is gonna port this for free.
Click to expand...
But would they do it for the $100k that was expressly raised for a Wii U port?

Castef said:
Next one: Bloodstained.
Click to expand...
It's possible but I feel like Iga's team has been pretty careful setting parameters to keep the Vita/Wii U ports reasonably viable. Hiring Armature beforehand and looping them in during (not after) development were smart moves to ensure those versions actually happen. It could still not happen but you can't say it's because they didn't plan as well as possible, select proven partners and really try.
 
E

ElectricBlanketFire

Member
Shizuka said:
I've got some news for you.
Click to expand...

tumblr_mzj5rzP8cN1rnjfjfo1_r1_400.gif
 
CamHostage

CamHostage

Member
Bummer this! I was very much looking forward to the Vita version of Hyper Light Drifter, especially after the reviews on other platforms. (I believe I even played an early prototype of the Vita version at GDC, which makes it all the more frustrating that it's not to be.) I understand his choice and appreciate him being up front about it, but it does hurt.


Kresnik258 said:
Might as well post (almost wrote 'port' then, lol) here too:

https://twitter.com/jawltd/status/773909103458549760

Just Add Water (worked on Lumo; two Oddworld games; Volume for Vita) are reaching out to the dev on Twitter regarding porting the game.
Click to expand...

I believe I own all four of these JAW co-development releases on Vita, and would gladly support them again if there was any chance of this happening...
 
dugdug

dugdug

Banned
Tapejara said:
The Binding of Issac's Afterbith DLC skipped Vita entirely due to performance issues (though it may still be coming based on a recent Nicalis Twitter poll)
Click to expand...

Hello. Please show me this poll so I can yell very loudly at Nicalis that OH DEAR GOD I NEED THIS.
 
S

Social

Member
I have been juggling about 6 apps for Android and iOS on my own for the last 4 years now and it gets REALLY hard to keep up with that alone, I couldn't imagine what he has to put up with, it really is an insane amount of work and your mind is constantly racing with all kinds of ideas, problems to solve, companies to deal with etc.. It never ends and you cannot rest much.

I wish him the best to get his health sorted!
 
F

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Dude looks really sick, hope he gets better. :(

The first comment is gross:

Diosisback
Less than two months ago:
"Vita - A more difficult platform, due to it's limited processing power and memory. Much optimization must be done in order for our game to run smoothly for the entirety of the experience. Luckily, we have external support taking charge on this port so we aren't ripping our own hair out. We're getting closer, but again, this is a Fall release at the earliest considering the amount of effort being poured in on this port."
Excuse me, but I just don´t buy the health excuse. There was no need for you to involve personally in these ports, I´d rather be able to play an average port than no port at all.
Thank you for ruining my week, seems like owning a Vita gives almost every developer the right to spit in your face without any repercussions.
Click to expand...
smh
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Thank you for ruining my week, seems like owning a Vita gives almost every developer the right to spit in your face without any repercussions.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, I'm blown away by how much software support the Vita has received given its weak marketshare. No regrets on my Vita purchase. I actually bought a replacement last year when my OLED model was stolen.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
Kresnik258 said:
Might as well post (almost wrote 'port' then, lol) here too:

https://twitter.com/jawltd/status/773909103458549760

Just Add Water (worked on Lumo; two Oddworld games; Volume for Vita) are reaching out to the dev on Twitter regarding porting the game.
Click to expand...

At some point, I would have to think that the cost of hiring even a cheap port house to do this ends up being more expensive than just refunding the Vita version keys, even factoring in whatever revenue is estimated to come from Vita version sales after release.
 
H

Hinchy

Member
mStudios said:
I need source on this, because I contacted Yoyogames MYSELF and they told me they weren't interested in making Gamemaker compatible with WiiU at all.
Click to expand...

There are a number of constants documented here - https://docs.yoyogames.com/source/dadiospice/002_reference/operating system/os_type.html

When you type a valid one in it is highlighted as a system constant by the code syntax highlighter.
os_wiiu turned the correct color, clearly showing that that is a system constant. that clearly shows that at least at one point they were interested in Wii U support.
of course I don't know if this still works, but this was before Xbox One support happened, and os_xboxone was there. os_xbox360 was also even there, I think, but that didn't pan out obviously.

EDIT: in the latest version, 1.4.1760:

A5ikrHF.png
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Iksenpets said:
At some point, I would have to think that the cost of hiring even a cheap port house to do this ends up being more expensive than just refunding the Vita version keys, even factoring in whatever revenue is estimated to come from Vita version sales after release.
Click to expand...

Just Add Water would likely be doing this as a portfolio project given the current situation. And easier to work with a single dev than a publisher. Not unheard of.
 
K

Kresnik258

Member
Iksenpets said:
At some point, I would have to think that the cost of hiring even a cheap port house to do this ends up being more expensive than just refunding the Vita version keys, even factoring in whatever revenue is estimated to come from Vita version sales after release.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the cost of hiring a porting studio isn't insubstantial, but if it's the solution to the issue of "I can't keep going on like I am without it affecting my health" without cancelling the game, surely that's best for everyone? Backers get what they backed for; dev gets some respite and the financial hit shouldn't be too much (especially as I'd *hope* there's some money which was set aside specifically for these ports, what with them being stretch goals and all).
 
R

Ravidrath

Member
Horsemama1956 said:
You would think you would have the engine up to snuff before selling people on the WiiU and Vita versions. You would think.
Click to expand...

It's not his engine, and he pushed it further than it was intended to be pushed.

And he saw the Wii U version running in 2013, and then it got held up because of problems between first party and the engine maker.
 
C

CopperPuppy

Member
I e-mailed support about switching my Vita key but haven't heard anything back. How did everyone else get their Vita keys switched?
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Popstar said:
The argument that they should have never promised a Wii U version in the first place because of market conditions doesn't hold a lot of water. Some indies have had good success on Nintendo's platforms. Shovel Knight being the most well-known case with their Wii U sales being greater than their PS4+Vita sales combined.
Click to expand...

Shovel Knight were actually able to ship within a year (hitting mid-2014) which certainly left them in a better state than 2016 or later. I would definitely rescind the claim for companies that could actually ship that fast (but the odds of you, G. Random Kickstarter Project, being the ones to succeed at that are so bad that careful consideration should demand you assume you won't be.)

Also, the PS4/Vita versions were a year late so that doesn't say much besides "late ports sell badly," which tends to be true regardless of platform. Not as useful a stat in that particular context.

Robert at Zeboyd Games said:
There might not be a ton of Vita owners, but the attach rate is sky high so if you keep your costs low and target the niche (generally anime-style RPG, visual novels, or music games), you can make a profit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, typically the big problem here is that people can't actually keep their costs low since they build on technology that doesn't port over smoothly, or build up their game into something that won't run well on Vita-level hardware.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

The "I survived development hell" club (7 years+) of games.
2
62
7K
Ozriel replied
The Missing Pieces for N. Switch Indie Support.
23
5K
Lonely1 replied
Hyper Light Drifter Wii U Port "In Limbo"
2
84
10K
Wyndstryker replied
  • Poll
Development of Bloodstained on Wii U officially cancelled, Switch version confirmed.
0
1K
Bony Manifesto replied
Hyper Light Drifter console and Vita release progress update
45
8K
Moskalova replied
Top Bottom