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[farisr]

You can turn off the dimming on the KS. Its just that that also affects the picture because of how it works with edge lit, how that works with the dynamic contrast and so forth.

But overall picture quality for games both HDR and none I find that I would rather have accuracy in local luminescence even if i had to sacrifice a little brightness screen wide. Especially when, in this case, lack of accuracy is adding light where it shouldn't be. But each to their own.

In that case, it seems like KS is the right choice if I were to make one (as it does fare better in other categories).

One more question, (would've been my next question if I was thinking about the x800D as well) without local dimming, is the HDR aspect still relatively impressive when compared to SDR displays?

Apparently, after recently searching for input lag figures (to see what's acceptable to me), my current TV that I want to replace, actually turned out to be one of the better ones to get back when it released/when I got it (pure luck, I bought it blindly just going off an open box ad for a "1080p native samsung tv - $300"). LN32A550 in case you're wondering. I mean, I think the answer would be obvious that display tech would've come a long way in this amount of time, but still feel the need to ask for some reason... LOL.

Since this is just for my room, I'm a bit more open to some flaws here and there/tech not being fully matured. My TV and projector in the basement on the other hand, that's when I'm going to be really picky when looking to upgrade to 4k/HDR.

 

[Karak]

In that case, it seems like KS is the right choice if I were to make one (as it does fare better in other categories).

One more question, (would've been my next question if I was thinking about the x800D as well) without local dimming, is the HDR aspect still relatively impressive when compared to SDR displays?

Apparently, after recently searching for input lag figures (to see what's acceptable to me), my current TV that I want to replace, actually turned out to be one of the better ones to get back when it released/when I got it (pure luck, I bought it blindly just going off an open box ad for a "1080p native samsung tv - $300"). LN32A550 in case you're wondering. I mean, I think the answer would be obvious that display tech would've come a long way in this amount of time, but still feel the need to ask for some reason... LOL.

Since this is just for my room, I'm a bit more open to some flaws here and there/tech not being fully matured. My TV and projector in the basement on the other hand, that's when I'm going to be really picky when looking to upgrade to 4k/HDR.

Yep it is. For sure. Totally absolutely noticeable. Good local dimming goes a good way to making a great pic but lack of it doesn't instantly make it not look HDR.

And about the projector. You and me both. And think of how hard it is going to be to figure out screens and all that crap lol. I am heading to a seminar about HDR projector setups next month for just that reason.

 

[Gitaroo]

Do you mean these? http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=hdr



They also added a couple processes that directly impact that input lag(as you said to improve TV picture quality for movies). It should not be very hard for many tv manufacturers to firmware out some of them to get that lag down lower than it is.

problem is that the newly release X800D is shipped with new Android 6 OS and a mediatek SoC that is almost twice as powerful than all the units prior even their flag ship like X930D and X940D. Those models that are currently affected with the horrible input lag issue use the same shitty mediatek soc since 2015 sets. Another thing absent in the X800D is the 'X1 processer'. For all I know, it can be just some software algorithm being processed by weak SoC which is causing this issue. If they disable it, what is the image going to look? If this the case then there may never be a fix....

 

[Karak]

problem is that the newly release X800D is shipped with new Android 6 OS and a mediatek SoC that is almost twice as powerful than all the units prior even their flag ship like X930D and X940D. Those models that are currently affected with the horrible input lag issue use the same shitty mediatek soc since 2015 sets. Another thing absent in the X800D is the 'X1 processer'. For all I know, it can be just some software algorithm being processed by weak SoC which is causing this issue. If they disable it, what is the image going to look? If this the case then there may never be a fix....

That's why I was a bit careful saying "many" in my comments because every manufacturer is now looking at input lag and trying to figure out what to do. Some will be much better at it than others this year but man do they have a vested interest.

 

[neogafdave]

If it helps, I got a XD80 the other week. Picture was excellent, gaming lag also excellent but android to is god damn terrible. Everything just feels so slow and laggy.

Now I've got a KS7000 for an extra 150 quid, and I couldn't be happier. HDR content is much clearer than on the Sony, blacks blacker. Picture quality I'd say has the edge and I just played my best round of black ops in a long time on it ( no FFS I shot you first moments ). Oh, and tizen is a lovely OS, so much quicker than the android.actually feels responsive

 

[Gitaroo]

If it helps, I got a XD80 the other week. Picture was excellent, gaming lag also excellent but android to is god damn terrible. Everything just feels so slow and laggy.

Now I've got a KS7000 for an extra 150 quid, and I couldn't be happier. HDR content is much clearer than on the Sony, blacks blacker. Picture quality I'd say has the edge and I just played my best round of black ops in a long time on it ( no FFS I shot you first moments ). Oh, and tizen is a lovely OS, so much quicker than the android.actually feels responsive

Interesting, because I had people telling be the opposite about tizen. I am currently using Android OS, while sluggish but the ability to side load android app, and ties to the android apps echo system alone is very awesome to me. You get the same update as you on your phone. Built in google cast is very useful.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

As this tv has the same feature (i have ku6400) has anyone had any success with the hdr+ feature. Mine just makes everything a bit yellow as far as i can tell. may as well call it a DE:HR filter. Strange.

I know its fake hdr so im not that fussed, just curious.

 

[neogafdave]

HDR+ got turned straight off - made my eyes hurt as things looked over saturated.

And yeah - if you have an android phone I'm sure it's useful for side loading that said, Samsung have functionality for their phones as well.

Neither are useful if you have an iPhone though all we do is sync the YouTube app up and stream that

 

[Nydus]

Hey there. Maybe you can help me. I recommended some friends of mine to buy a sony or lg (because i love my w802) for their new tv but after reading some reviews i kinda feel guilty. They went and bought the xd9305 65" for 3200€ and play a lot of destiny. But reviews say its shit for gaming and some suggests that if you play a hdr game the tv will go from gaming to hdr mode...

Could they get a clearly better tv for their money or will they be ok with that set as casual gamers in that price range?

 

[neogafdave]

I've come from a Sony 829B ( THE gaming LCD TV of 2014), and all I can say is the samsung blows it out of the water, both in colour deptch & picture quality.

Last few weeks on sony - K/D of 0.5 on blops3, on the samsung 1.2

 

[Bauer_Hans]

I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on the KS8000 but then I'd have to buy an AV that supports 4K & HDR and I haven't even looked at AV models that support these because I'm afraid the prices would turn me off altogether

 

[UrbanRats]

That's LG B6. E6 has more reasonable input lag in the 30ms range.

With HDR and 4K on? RTINGS says otherwise here:
http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/e6

Input Lag
1080p @ 60Hz: 34.2 ms
1080p With Interpolation: 127 ms
1080p @ 60Hz Outside Game Mode: 50.7 ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4: 52.6 ms
4k @ 60Hz: 34.4 ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4: 34.1 ms
4k @ 60Hz + HDR: 67.5 ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR: 67.5 ms

Update 06/17/2016: The input lag can take some time to stabilize, but adjusting the picture mode to 'Game' and changing the input icon to 'Game console' reduces the input lag to 34.2ms at 1080p. Ensure 'TruMotion' is disabled.

Update 08/09/2016: The 1080p input lag outside game mode was updated to 50.7ms and the input lag under HDR mode with a 1080p resolution was also verified, and it is also of 50.7ms.

Update 09/14/2016: The input lag with an HDR signal under a 4k @ 60Hz resolution is a bit higher than without an HDR signal, because when the TV detect an HDR signal, it switches to a special HDR picture mode. To have the best input lag, be sure to select the 'HDR Standard' picture mode.

Note that the less expensive LG B6 has a better input lag under HDR with a 4k resolutions than the E6.

 

[Shogmaster]

With HDR and 4K on? RTINGS says otherwise here:
http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/e6

Oh shit, that's new news for me. They must have done new tests recently at Rtings.

 

[UrbanRats]

I wonder how significantly a firmware update can change input lag, those would be great TV if they fixed that (the B6 is also getting cheaper, i've seen it for 1900€).

 

[pswii60]

I'm not sure if this helps, but this is a shot of how an anime image looks on a US k8000, the weakest of the KS levels. At least, for how I have it calibrated.

I've never understood this. As I am looking at your photo on my PC monitor, it will only look as good as my PC monitor.

 

[Rbk_3]

Processing the backlight based on the image would naturally increase input lag to some degree. I think most of the tests out there are done with game modes that have local dimming turned off anyways.

Samsung has said that, but like usual, I'd take promises of firmware upgrades to older models with a grain of salt.

Except the Vizios have sub 20ms with their FALD on

 

[Future PhaZe]

Except the Vizios have sub 20ms with their FALD on

There's reason to hope the new vizios will get HDR + game mode at sub 20 ms but it's not the case currently. Enabling HDR increases input lag significantly on Vizio P.

There is no reason to believe new Oleds will improve significantly in terms of hdr input lag. It's a niche issue.

The greatest hope is the next Samsung model which would hopefully provide better GOOD FALD compared to Vizio P with at least similar input lag to the 8000.

 

[odin9450]

Is this the ks8000 in the UK?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FM6FMFE/

Why is it saying 1080?

 

[michaelius]

Is this the ks8000 in the UK?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FM6FMFE/

Why is it saying 1080?

No - review in first post is from UK so it uses same numbers as amazon.

 

[digitalrelic]

I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on the KS8000 but then I'd have to buy an AV that supports 4K & HDR and I haven't even looked at AV models that support these because I'm afraid the prices would turn me off altogether

You could always plug your devices directly into the TV and then output all audio from the tv to your receiver via Optical or HDMI ARC. This eliminates the need for a HDCP 2.2 receiver. Of course you'll lose the Dolby Atmos stuff, but I personally only have a stereo sound setup at home so I don't care.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

im probably gonna get this one

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/vizio-65-class-64-5-diag--led-2160p-smartcast-4k-ultra-hd-home-theater-display-with-high-dynamic-range-black/4989200.p?skuId=4989200

i just cant justify the extra 500 dollars..... is there somewhere i can look up input lag on this tv?

 

[odin9450]

No - review in first post is from UK so it uses same numbers as amazon.

Are you sure? When I type in UE49KS8000 in the search bar in amzon uk I get the above one.

 

[dcx4610]

I like my KS8000 by I hate how Game mode works. On my previous Sony, it had a game preset where it enables game mode. On the Samsung, you enable game mode on the regular inputs and if you want to go to movie mode,you can't change unless you manually go in and turn game mode off. Very annoying.

They should either have a game preset or make it where game mode disables automatically when you change presets. That's my only complaint.

The black levels are amazing for being an edge lit TV, the screen is blindingly bright and the upscaling is top notch.

 

[michaelius]

Are you sure? When I type in UE49KS8000 in the search bar in amzon uk I get the above one.

Look at picture in review and on amazon. KS7000 uses different stand that KS8000 in europe.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue55ks8000-201609174362.htm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FM6FMFE/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FWENEKQ/

Check on Samsung uk website- maybe they are not selling 49" variant there.

 

[TAS]

Personally, I would not buy an OLED for gaming due to image retention / burn-in issues. That is not something I want to have to think about when using a TV.

How much of an issue is this? Are reports of image retention common like with plasma?

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

im probably gonna get this one

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/vizio-65-class-64-5-diag--led-2160p-smartcast-4k-ultra-hd-home-theater-display-with-high-dynamic-range-black/4989200.p?skuId=4989200

i just cant justify the extra 500 dollars..... is there somewhere i can look up input lag on this tv?

That one doesn't have true HDR

rtings review: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/m-series-2016
input lag info is there

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

There's reason to hope the new vizios will get HDR + game mode at sub 20 ms but it's not the case currently. Enabling HDR increases input lag significantly on Vizio P.

There is no reason to believe new Oleds will improve significantly in terms of hdr input lag. It's a niche issue.

The greatest hope is the next Samsung model which would hopefully provide better GOOD FALD compared to Vizio P with at least similar input lag to the 8000.

Is it possible to switch hdr on and off in game mode on the p series? For single player games I am not as concerned about responsiveness and in competitive games I am not as concerned about the look of it.

I ask because I watch a lot of movies so I am trying to accomplish both.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

Is it possible to switch hdr on and off in game mode on the p series? For single player games I am not as concerned about responsiveness and in competitive games I am not as concerned about the look of it.

I ask because I watch a lot of movies so I am trying to accomplish both.

Well you have to plug the HDMI into HDMI5(doesn't support HDR) port to get ~20ms input lag and plug it in HDMI1-4 to get HDR at ~63ms input lag.

So it's good if you don't mind that hassle of re-pluging the HDMI cable every time you switch between singleplayer and multiplayer.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Well you have to plug the HDMI into HDMI5(doesn't support HDR) port to get ~20ms input lag and plug it in HDMI1-4 to get HDR at ~63ms input lag.

So it's good if you don't mind that hassle of re-pluging the HDMI cable every time you switch between singleplayer and multiplayer.

It honestly wouldn't be that big of a deal. I actually strangely find that easier than fiddling in the menu every time.

Guess I'll see. I may try the US KS8000 at home first to see if the edge light bothers me. I have a feeling it will as I watch in a dark room. If it does then I will get the Vizio.

 

[Syrus]

Ks8000 is amazing and input lag is fantastic.

HDTV shows 23 ms 4k 60 but rtings may show different.

Either way 50ms or less for 4k60 sounds fine to me.

I play on the S upscaled 4k and game mode. My game moves the second I touch the button.

Anyone who plays in dark room should gey some bias lighting. It looks so good now. Blacks are deeper and you dont notice the issues with it being edge lit nearly as much

 

[Syrus]

It honestly wouldn't be that big of a deal. I actually strangely find that easier than fiddling in the menu every time.

Guess I'll see. I may try the US KS8000 at home first to see if the edge light bothers me. I have a feeling it will as I watch in a dark room. If it does then I will get the Vizio.

Get bias lighting. I just put some in. Hooks to usb on TV and it almost removed any blooming or clouding issues with it being edge lit and improves PQ

 

[odin9450]

Look at picture in review and on amazon. KS7000 uses different stand that KS8000 in europe.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue55ks8000-201609174362.htm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FM6FMFE/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FWENEKQ/

Check on Samsung uk website- maybe they are not selling 49" variant there.

The us Un49ks8000 = the uk ueks7000 They're identical even the stand.

This is the us model: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN49KS8000-49-Inch-Ultra-Smart/dp/B01D98AQ30/ref=sr_1_3?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1474302522&sr=1-3&keywords=samsung+ks8000

 

[New002]

Ks8000 is amazing and input lag is fantastic.

HDTV shows 23 ms 4k 60 but rtings may show different.

Either way 50ms or less for 4k60 sounds fine to me.

I play on the S upscaled 4k and game mode. My game moves the second I touch the button.

Anyone who plays in dark room should gey some bias lighting. It looks so good now. Blacks are deeper and you dont notice the issues with it being edge lit nearly as much

I can't speak for this set, but bias lighting is worth looking into. I used it for my previous LG set because I was frustrated by the things you mentioned, and it definitely helped, but could only do so much. I imagine with that KS8000 you're starting from a much, much better place than I was. With bias lighting and those input lag numbers I bet it's a killer set.

Those issues above, plus the fact that my current set has a recurring section where the backlight won't power on, pushed me towards an OLED set this year. While I enjoyed the bias lighting, being able to sit in a dark room and have the image be pure black is a treat. Hopefully they release a patch that addresses the input lag like Samsung did, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

I can't speak for this set, but bias lighting is worth looking into.

Get bias lighting. I just put some in. Hooks to usb on TV and it almost removed any blooming or clouding issues with it being edge lit and improves PQ

Which bias lighting do you guys recommend?

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Ks8000 is amazing and input lag is fantastic.

HDTV shows 23 ms 4k 60 but rtings may show different.

Either way 50ms or less for 4k60 sounds fine to me.

I play on the S upscaled 4k and game mode. My game moves the second I touch the button.

Anyone who plays in dark room should gey some bias lighting. It looks so good now. Blacks are deeper and you dont notice the issues with it being edge lit nearly as much

Get bias lighting. I just put some in. Hooks to usb on TV and it almost removed any blooming or clouding issues with it being edge lit and improves PQ

First I've heard of bias lighting. Off to google I go but does anyone have a good example of it and what it does?

 

[New002]

Which bias lighting do you guys recommend?

I just used one of these for a 55" set and it was solid. Mini size. They have USB options now it looks like.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

I have the Samsung JS9500 (2015 model) and I hope they upgrade the little box to add features down the road.

Need to get an Xbox One S to try out the HDR though, but overall I've been pretty happy with the set.

 

[Syrus]

Which bias lighting do you guys recommend?

Luminoodle 78 inch led on Amazon for 14$

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

Luminoodle 78 inch led on Amazon for 14$

This one?

 

[michaelius]

The us Un49ks8000 = the uk ueks7000 They're identical even the stand.

This is the us model: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN49KS8000-49-Inch-Ultra-Smart/dp/B01D98AQ30/ref=sr_1_3?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1474302522&sr=1-3&keywords=samsung+ks8000

Ok I give up. Check what is reviewed in first post of this thread.

 

[Syrus]

I can't speak for this set, but bias lighting is worth looking into. I used it for my previous LG set because I was frustrated by the things you mentioned, and it definitely helped, but could only do so much. I imagine with that KS8000 you're starting from a much, much better place than I was. With bias lighting and those input lag numbers I bet it's a killer set.

Those issues above, plus the fact that my current set has a recurring section where the backlight won't power on, pushed me towards an OLED set this year. While I enjoyed the bias lighting, being able to sit in a dark room and have the image be pure black is a treat. Hopefully they release a patch that addresses the input lag like Samsung did, but I'm not holding my breath.

I agree I prefer pure dark. I had a plasma so coming back to LED has been jarring but the PQ is so good! With Bias lighting Id say its close to perfect blacks and looks cool.

I couldnt justify the prices for 65 inch OLED. Ks8000 more then half as much as the 65 OLED and its near perfect for gaming.

 

[Syrus]

This one?

Yep!

 

[duhmetree]

I bought mine Friday. At the moment, the main drawback is the lack of 4K or HDR content. I've been watching some Netflix, getting into Daredevil.

Amazon Video doesn't work for me as well.. I'm not sure if this is a problem for everyone or an isolated incident. Haven't put too much effort into resolving the issue.

I truly bought it for the PS4 Pro... The TV's potential/value wont be met until that is released.

The other drawback is that OCD tendency I have of 'wanting the best'.. New models are right around the corner... I might return it in December (Costco's 90 day return policy) to wait until March 2017 ( presumably when the new models drop ) to take the true plunge.

 

[Syrus]

I bought mine Friday. At the moment, the main drawback is the lack of 4K or HDR content. I've been watching some Netflix, getting into Daredevil.

Amazon Video doesn't work for me as well.. I'm not sure if this is a problem for everyone or an isolated incident. Haven't put too much effort into resolving the issue.

I truly bought it for the PS4 Pro... The TV's potential/value wont be met until that is released.

The other drawback is that OCD tendency I have of 'wanting the best'.. New models are right around the corner... I might return it in December (Costco's 90 day return policy) to wait until March 2017 ( presumably when the new models drop ) to take the true plunge.

I doubt the 2017 will be much better then this and will cost alot more

 

[x3sphere]

I bought mine Friday. At the moment, the main drawback is the lack of 4K or HDR content. I've been watching some Netflix, getting into Daredevil.

Amazon Video doesn't work for me as well.. I'm not sure if this is a problem for everyone or an isolated incident. Haven't put too much effort into resolving the issue.

I truly bought it for the PS4 Pro... The TV's potential/value wont be met until that is released.

The other drawback is that OCD tendency I have of 'wanting the best'.. New models are right around the corner... I might return it in December (Costco's 90 day return policy) to wait until March 2017 ( presumably when the new models drop ) to take the true plunge.

Prices at release are always sky high though. I always wait until around the fall to buy a TV, with high end models they usually drop at least 30%.

65" KS8000 started at $2800 in March for example. I'd expect the 2017 replacement to start at a similar price.

 

[Octavia]

This TV is literally almost perfect except for the light bleed. I don't get why they couldn't have just done a FALD and increased the price a few hundred bucks.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I doubt the 2017 will be much better then this and will cost alot more

As was mentioned earlier sometimes tv manufacturers bet on the wrong features year over year and input lag is something the mainstream purchasers know little about.

Even Full array backlit has fallen to the wayside some years. I would be surprised if next year OLED became a bigger thing but still pricey and edge lit for everything else.

 

[Bauer_Hans]

You could always plug your devices directly into the TV and then output all audio from the tv to your receiver via Optical or HDMI ARC. This eliminates the need for a HDCP 2.2 receiver. Of course you'll lose the Dolby Atmos stuff, but I personally only have a stereo sound setup at home so I don't care.

I thought optical can pass through more than 2 channels? Did I miss anything?

 

[Syrus]

As was mentioned earlier sometimes tv manufacturers bet on the wrong features year over year and input lag is something the mainstream purchasers know little about.

Even Full array backlit has fallen to the wayside some years. I would be surprised if next year OLED became a bigger thing but still pricey and edge lit for everything else.

True , this TV just has everything you need maybe except Dolby Vision and FALD. DV can maybe be firmware. They may firmware hd10 dynamic data in.

My complaint is its edge lit and have to manually change setting for HDR in game.

The Input Lag is amazing even in 4k HDR if HDTVTest is correct.

Im fine with anything under 50.

Like I said, bias lighting helps it alot and pulls closer to FALD levels

 

[New002]

I agree I prefer pure dark. I had a plasma so coming back to LED has been jarring but the PQ is so good! With Bias lighting Id say its close to perfect blacks and looks cool.

I couldnt justify the prices for 65 inch OLED. Ks8000 more then half as much as the 65 OLED and its near perfect for gaming.

Yeah it sounds like a heck of a set! It was definitely in the running for me after my broken P65 went back. I was looking for a set to last me several years though and the lack of Dolby Vision had me a little worried. The way things are going though it seems like that may not prove to be an issue @_@.

At the end of the day the set was too expensive for me to be a stop-gap purchase, but I was also looking for something more than just a set to hold me over...so here I am. I weighed the pros and cons and ended up compromising on the input lag this go around. But really it sounds like it's tough to go wrong with this set.