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In-depth review of the Samsung KS 8000
- Thread starter GeoNeo
- Start date
Steve McQueen
Member
On the fence, but the next gen HDMI, which seems to come soon, will support dynamic metadata for HDR and that difference seems to be huge. But then this metadata seems only to be supported by Dolby Vision but not by HDR10.
Still early days for HDR, maybe I should just wait although I might not be able too.
Still early days for HDR, maybe I should just wait although I might not be able too.
michaelius
Banned
Sure - if you use it with 110 ms input lag - if you enable game mode you are back to 60 Hz VA panel speeds like every TV
Every OLED is FALD by default since all their pixels are light sources.
It's always better to wait if you can, even moreso now, but if you gotta jump in now for whatever reason I don't think it's the end of the world or anything. There are some options out there, but nothing is perfect, at least not yet
Had the 49" KS8000 (UK) model for a couple of months now and still very impressed. Looking forward to testing new XB1 's' this Thursday but as far as gaming, Sky, Blu Ray & Netfilx it's a great tv, settings certainly need tweaking to preference, noticed slight motion stuttter but only occasionally, it replaced a 4K Sony that kept turning itself on and is a much better set. What Hi-Fi reviewed it recently as well: http://www.whathifi.com/samsung/ue49ks8000/review
Cheers, for the correction.
It's always better to wait if you can, even moreso now, but if you gotta jump in now for whatever reason I don't think it's the end of the world or anything. There are some options out there, but nothing is perfect, at least not yet
Worth the wait indeed specially taking into consideration the "war" between the HDR and Dobly Vision going on. Reminds me of the "war" between Bluray and HD DVD. If you do need to jump in now the options are quite limited but they do exist. For each their own I guess.
Yup, I don't disagree. If you can wait, it's best to wait at least until next year's sets are announced. Otherwise sets like the Vizo P series, these Samsung sets, or the LG OLED sets are ones to look at and may suit one's needs, but there will be compromises. There still may be compromises next year too, but hopefully they aren't as big.
Shogmaster
Member
That guy clearly doesn't have full understanding of what he is trying to talk about is just ends up defaulting to "buy TV with best of every feature or just hold off". Well fuck, let's just recommend everybody to get LG E6 and close the damn thread lol. Is it really LG E6 or bust? Come on mang...
BTW if you want a good full array set you want to buy today, you can always spend the bucks and get the LG OLEDs. The Visio would be OK as well but I think their bare bones display only approach kinda sucks for that price range. I think I would forgo local dimming over better image quality and get the KS8000 over M55.
molnizzle
Member
1080p content should look identical to how it looks on a 1080p set since 3840x2160 is exactly 4x the pixels of 1080p. 720p, no idea.
Square Triangle
Member
I bought this TV last week and am in love with it. It helps with work, i was able to get $800 off.
BlitzerRadic
Member
In the US, the naming convention is KSx000 = flat screen, KSxx00 = curved screen So KS8500, KS9500 and KS9800 are all curved screen with the KS9800 have FALD which is why it's the only model with x800.
In US you have 3 tiers: KS7x00, KS8x00 and KS9x00.
In UK, Sammy seems to want to market curved screens as its own high end tier, so it eliminated the KS8500, and now you have 3 tiers: 7000 (8000 US), 8000 (9000 US), 9000 and 9500 (9000 US curved and FALD variants)
ss_lemonade
Member
Insanely high? Maybe its because I don't play competitive, but I barely feel any difference between my 144hz pc monitor and my 19ms tv when it comes to input lag. I even stream stuff to it using shield and steam streaming over wifi just fine (there is input lag with that route but it's far from horrible)
I always wondered about this with TVs. I've only seen 4k laptops running in 1080p and those did not look as sharp as a typical 1080p laptop
Karak
Member
At least once the refresh happens we can see what offerings are out there and judge worth versus availability worth media present.
But playing HDR GAME content on these right at this moment I have to say its not like the 8000 is the only TV with issues that probably don't appear much in movies, whether you care will be something up to each individual owner. Like of course the light pillaring, and especially the input lag on some of these
What's wrong with waiting to see if they release a TV with all the right features you want in place?
If you really want to go ahead and buy one go ahead of course, but you should at least know what you're getting, and the video is pretty informative in that sense.
Also, the LGE6, even aside from the price, has some questionable input lag so far.
Karak
Member
Dynamic medadata is indeed a pretty big switch. Very sad we are entering the first swing of these sets and games are primed and thats not in there for HDR10/
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
Uh, he accurately described the pros and cons of the current technology and did it in short time. If you have a problem with his assessment other than the "he recommends the most expensive thing--boo!" how about you articulate it?
Fucking Gaf, man.
michaelius
Banned
Not having TV or having only a crappy one makes waiting not so atractive proposition.
The last time I used "wait for something perfect" was when I ignored Eizo 120Hz and bought cheap 60Hz Benq as temporary solution - I ended using it for 3 years before I finally got proper 144Hz display which still was 600 euro compromise with bit better ones being 900+ and full of QA problems.
People thinking next year will have reasonably priced FALD or newest OLED models are up for rude awakening. I'm guessing we will need to wait at least 2-3 years before we get TV like that in 1000 Euro/$ range. And it's extremely unlikely that whole format war thing will be resolved in 2017 models considering they just started showing third format which is supposed to be used for tv broadcast.
So personally I'll be buying X800D/KS7000/DX750 in few weeks and then I'll be able to skip whole format war and buy into perfectly mature tech while still enjoying a bit of HDR. And since consoles are HDR10 we should be safe until P4 Pro Neo2 arrives
My only alternative would be spending half of what KS7000 costs on temporary 1080p tv.
Hey i'm not saying anyone buying a TV now is a chump, but it's always best to have all the information first, and then make your (informed) decision, that's why i'm defending that video.Not having TV or having only a crappy one makes waiting not so atractive proposition.
The last time I used "wait for something perfect" was when I ignored Eizo 120Hz and bought cheap 60Hz Benq as temporary solution - I ended using it for 3 years before I finally got proper 144Hz display which still was 600 euro compromise with bit better ones being 900+ and full of QA problems.
People thinking next year will have reasonably priced FALD or newest OLED models are up for rude awakening. I'm guessing we will need to wait at least 2-3 years before we get TV like that in 1000 Euro/$ range. And it's extremely unlikely that whole format war thing will be resolved in 2017 models considering they just started showing third format which is supposed to be used for tv broadcast.
So personally I'll be buying X800D/KS7000/DX750 in few weeks and then I'll be able to skip whole format war and buy into perfectly mature tech while still enjoying a bit of HDR. And since consoles are HDR10 we should be safe until P4 Pro Neo2 arrives
My only alternative would be spending half of what KS7000 costs on temporary 1080p tv.
If you're willing to compromise on those aspects and shortcomings, that's understandable, but at least you should be aware of them before you spend 1000+ on something.
Personally i prefer to wait (didn't have the money right now anyway) and see what's coming, then if nothing interesting comes out next year, i'll see where i am then and decide.
More information is never bad though.
michaelius
Banned
But if it turns out nothing interesting is coming out next year then it was just wasted time that could be enjoyed with new stuff.
Plus we won't know if any of those new tvs are good when they are announced. We will need to wait for reviews.
For example Sony 2013/2014 were best gaming machines with lowest input lag then it all went to crap and now they fallen behind.
Yeah, kind of surprised myself, they maybe looking at market trend or marketing trend. They seems to focus on image processing now than game input lag. Pretty picture probably sells more tv than telling gamers about input lag. Just look at the rtng results, basically all the 4k tv prior to x800D, were all broken in 4k since day 1 for pc usage and they have never bother to patch it. This goes all the way back to more than a year ago and probably the one before those too.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I'm not sure if this helps, but this is a shot of how an anime image looks on a US k8000, the weakest of the KS levels. At least, for how I have it calibrated.
Posting a picture of your TV is useless because people are viewing it on their own displays
There's a few KS8000 left for $1,500 if you're game to buy http://m.ebay.com/itm/331937924777
Karak
Member
It no biggy. Its hyperbolized now into a knee jerk "PERFECT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN" response which hilariously isn't what the video was about at all. But it is about making sure your not impacting the very technology your excited about, if you can, and jumping into when there is absolutely BARELY any media available for it so its the perfect time to check out and see.
Shows $1649 for me.
There's $100 back from eBay rewards.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
I think that deal is dead.
DreadfulOmen
Member
Have you watched any uhd/hdr movies on the samsung yet? I cant stand it when a bright object on a dark scene blooms/light bleeds into the surrounding areas and edge lit displays. Since the edge lighting is on the top and bottom, is it safe to assume that the black bars in movies will be gray? Has the technology gotten better?
All this video tells me
We aren't ready.....but companies are pushing hard for us to switch. Because everyone has a decent 1080p display for the most part now and are in general very happy with what they have. But right now we are in a push for sales as it starts to decline as folks don't need to upgrade their sets anymore.
I went budget for my 4k TV, bought the Sony one 800d, glad I did. Will look for full array in the future when I want to.
Even the KS8000 is a little expensive considering it's just another budget screen.
Especially one that has a rec2020 less than a $500 TV
Karak
Member
Ya watched a dozen or more.
You CAN get it to go a good deal away. But depending on the movie it will be more or less noticeable. However in games there are some issues. For example you can see bars of light whenever you have a bright light in one spot. Dragons Dogma looks odd as hell during the night scenes with the center of the screen vertical barred. I almost got it removed but then of course daytime was out of wack. To be fair that game is a GREAT test for HDR displays showing none HDR content and the various different settings.
When your loading a level and you have an icon. Witcher, Batman, in one corner you have the same. Luckily its just the loading screen but its annoying. Primal had some issues during night scenes when the minimap or other corner items light up one side of the screen during dark scenes, with that vertical bar as well.
All things people can ignore for sure. But there yes.
The thing I am noticing a great deal more with the Samsung than any other set is that moving from game to game, HDR game like Forza 3 Horizon(I am reviewing it) and say going to a movie is that I find myself fighting the settings constantly to make up for something or the other. While the others I have to do that less and noticeably so. That shouldn't be a surprise though as thats a regular complaint on that set for some folks.
But that input lag is AMAZINGLY good. Can't wait to see the improvements on input with the next sets.
Shogmaster
Member
That's LG B6. E6 has more reasonable input lag in the 30ms range.
The way he describes local dimming was shit. And while I agree that lack of it can be annoying, it's not a deal breaker to everyone and also have to know that it's one of those compromises you have to make based on the price. You want great local dimming? Then you simply have to pay a lot more for it. He couldn't explain that because it felt like he really didn't know how TV sets achieve it.
DreadfulOmen
Member
Thanks for your input, i really appreciate it. The vertical light bars pretty much confirms that i wont be happy with the samsung. Im thinking that when games with hdr come out the light bleeding will be even more noticeable, especially in a dark game like gears of war.
Karak
Member
Interesting as that is actually the way the spokesmen described it in laymen terms which is what this was about, building on getting users some data about end results.
I have no ego about that and since this is about giving out correct data and actual laymen descriptions and information I have emailed/DM'ed my contacts at LG, Samsung, and Visio and asked them if that description should be changed.
As an ex AV installer I hope I am usually up enough on tech to discuss it but if that turns out wrong I will certainty add an addendum to that video. Its a valid point so it needs to be hammered home correctly and HDR being new can easily cloud the subject.
Edit response back about that description from my LG contact..
Maybe on the next vid I will go more technical.
Each to their own. I see the huge forum threads in the various audio visual forms of people hating them and calling for returns and blah blah blah. I am not into that. I am into everyone understanding what HDR is doing and trying to maximize that actual effect when the media is out to support it, with the technology of that time.
Its a fucking exciting time man. The biggest improvement without needing really extra horsepower is here and with the proper tech behind it...WOW. We are all learning just how cool this can be for sure.
The end result of course will be money versus features but the nice thing is since its a totally new feature we are seeing companies trying to outdo one another. Input lag is next and we can see that just by how manufacturers are respond right on twitter about questions and such.
Karak
Member
Do you mean these? http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=hdr
They also added a couple processes that directly impact that input lag(as you said to improve TV picture quality for movies). It should not be very hard for many tv manufacturers to firmware out some of them to get that lag down lower than it is.
digitalrelic
Banned
A third party Amazon seller (99% rating after 3000+ reviews) briefly listed a new 55" version of this set for $1297, no tax and free shipping.
I jumped on it. Can't wait to get my hands on this set in a week or so! I also purchased a wall mount and a bias lighting kit.
I jumped on it. Can't wait to get my hands on this set in a week or so! I also purchased a wall mount and a bias lighting kit.
You will very likely love this TV. I got one about a month ago and this TV really delivers for the price.
Shogmaster
Member
The real trick in a video like your primer is to boil it down to very simple and easy to digest terms. Being more technical isn't necessarily the answer since it might confuse the viewer more. The correct approach to explaining local dimming IMO is the cost approach since it's a direct correlation to complexity of lighting array = more cost.
Edge lit sets are cheaper but you only have a few lighting elements and will do a shit job of lighting complex bright shapes on screen and you will suffer more from blooms in the black.
Local dimming via increased lighting elements from the back is better for granularity but more elements controlled separately = more complexity = more cost. In fact, the concept of lighting granularity is very important to explain to the viewer first. You should have taken the pong analogy further, by maybe adding more balls to the example or make the shape of the pong ball into more complex one to explain further the importance of granularity in lighting.
Great local dimming is really a brute force approach if you think about it. That new Sony Z series is taking LCD back lit based local dimming to the next levels by having over a thousand separate lighting elements instead of previous levels of hundreds of separate elements in something like Vizio M series. Of course LG sidesteps that issue altogether by using OLEDs that are self Illuminating each pixel, but that's far more expensive to produce than LCDs.
Explaining complex tech like local dimming on a short video is a challenge, obviously, but you have to do more than how you did it otherwise it adds more to the confusion than anything. But in order to do that you need to fully understand the tech yourself first before you can hope to describe it simply to others. IMO, you will need to use lots of visual aids.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
Karak
Member
You sir, are a gent and a scholar. Thanks
No problem. I know how it can be.
We used to have folks drag video game systems in lol. Any good store will do it. Though they may want to verify it doesn't have malware and shit on the usb
Just a question about your preference in regards to this issue.
If you had to choose, what would you rather have, an edge lit dimming solution like the ks8000 that produces the vertical column when there's a small bright object in a dark scene, or something hat doesn't have dimming at all like the x800d that won't produce a vertical column but can't be as dynamic in other scenes as the ks8000 due to the lack of dimming.
yap
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
I'm pretty sure you can turn off the local dimming on KS8000.
Karak
Member
You can turn off the dimming on the KS. The issue is each tv handles it differently that has it and some are very poor. And off or on it also affects the picture because of how it works with edge lit, how that works with the dynamic contrast(if its on) and so forth. Rtings and others suggest you don't turn if off but thats of course up to you. Edge lit is just the older cheaper tech.
But overall picture quality for games both HDR and none I find that I would rather have accuracy in local luminescence even if i had to sacrifice a little brightness screen wide and that goes for all local dimming efforts on all tv's. Especially when, in this case, lack of accuracy is adding light where it shouldn't be. But each to their own. As I said in the video its a great time because there isn't a lot of media. So while some companies might want us to rush out and get something, if we don't the loss will be very small for awhile. Which is so nice for a consumer.