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[Bgamer90]

The Playstation 3 did better in Italy than the Xbox 360 pretty early (sales in late 2008 were 400K for the 360 and 650K for the PS3 in Italy iirc) so I'm not surprised by this at all.
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Looks like everyone who predicted 2:1 in US, 4:1 in Europe was correct. The potential for the gap to widen even more is still a possibility.

It's not 2:1 in America.

lol There's a good Chance Microsoft is getting Wii U'd in North America lol. It's gonna be an interesting NPD for June.

Heh, what? How if it's selling more than Wii U in North America?

 

[Glorified G]

I can't agree. The Europeans I know like their online COD as much as anybody from Minnesota, Kinnect is a nice to have kit but nobody's fault that we in Europe have a couple billions languages (some of them with just a couple of native speakers), and the TV depends on the providers. In addition to that, is not like Sony is providing better spoken language recognition and TV support in Europe, right?

Right, but it's not like Sony made PS Camera a focal point that relied on voice controls nor did they make TV one of the main selling points when PS4 launched. MS did, because these issues were not going to be a problem in the markets they cared about and it was for Sony.

 

[angelcage87]

Ps3 has a healthy install base in here, x360 as well but not on the same scale. All things considered, PS4 is doing extremely well. The casuals I know don't care about it because they don't see the 'leap', others are waiting for a good football/whatever game; also right now people are balls deep into shitty mobile/facebook games, so if it doesn't run candy crush or temple run there ain't much interest. Greece-level and rising economic crisis is not helping either, a good mobile phone seems like a better investment right now compared a PS4, to the average consumer of course.
Numbers will improve with time, I can see a big bump in sales when either Uncharted or MGSV hit, maybe The Order could be a big hit too.

 

[Sakura]

Its the second largest territory after the US.

Considering Europe has like what, around twice the population of the US, yet is 2nd after the US in console sales, I'd say that consoles aren't big in Europe is a pretty fair statement, relatively speaking.

 

[Parmenide]

Italy is a country where PS means videogames to the mass. I'm not surprised.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Considering Europe has like what, around twice the population of the US, yet is 2nd after the US in console sales, I'd say that consoles aren't big in Europe is a pretty fair statement, relatively speaking.

No, it is the second most important territory.
I mean, if you want to include the entirety of "the americas" to increase the population size of americas significantly but not the purchasing of consoles, you can do that if you want, because that's closer to what Europe is.

 

[Sakura]

No, it is the second most important territory.
I mean, if you want to include the entirety of "the americas" to increase the population size of americas significantly but not the purchasing of consoles, you can do that if you want, because that's closer to what Europe is.

You were replying to a post that said "Europe is not really big on consoles." I don't think that has anything to do with Europe's importance as a territory, but the relative popularity of consoles there.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

You were replying to a post that said "Europe is not really big on consoles." I don't think that has anything to do with Europe's importance as a territory, but the relative popularity of consoles there.

The second most important market for a product is important to that product.
Yes, consoles are big in Europe. Almost as big as in America.

The fact that per capita expenditure extends from vastly higher than the US in some subterritoties (like the UK) to vastly lower (like Poland) means nothing.

 

[Fred-87]

Why are gaming market share % numbers lower in non-US and non-JPN countries? 210,000/60,000,000 is lower than the US market share %. Is gaming not that big outside the US and Japan?

Pc gaming is much bigger in Europe then in USA. But in some countries in europe console gaming is also big

 

[kudoboi]

All the people i know game on pc, either because of steam or because of pirating.

Similar here in Singapore. Even those with a ps4 or any other console only use them for exclusive titles

 

[LittleJohnny]

Right, but it's not like Sony made PS Camera a focal point that relied on voice controls nor did they make TV one of the main selling points when PS4 launched. MS did, because these issues were not going to be a problem in the markets they cared about and it was for Sony.

Is that the way Xbox One was advertised in Europe? I don't live there so I can't say.

Look, the numbers speak for themselves, after posting results for 360 vs PS3, we need a massive "This is nothing" GIF. PS3 at $600 sold more than 360, How would a cheaper Playstation perform? Xbox One looks to be on track, if not better than 360. Nothing to see here.

 

[Guymelef]

Is that the way Xbox One was advertised in Europe? I don't live there so I can't say.

Look, the numbers speak for themselves, after posting results for 360 vs PS3, we need a massive "This is nothing" GIF. PS3 at $600 sold more than 360, How would a cheaper Playstation perform? Xbox One looks to be on track, if not better than 360. Nothing to see here.

What makes you think that?

 

[Exploratory]

I've been saying the same thing for a while but all I get is comments claiming I'm insane or trolling. I can't see any more than 4.5m Xbox Ones in homes worldwide at the moment. The console has been an unmitigated flop in Europe so far and it's only been doing 'okay' in the States. If Microsoft don't do something, and do something soon, the Xbox One is going to be in a whole heap of trouble.

The NPD figures for June are going to be very interesting.

People on both sides of the isle aisle say this every month. Let's all agree that NPD is interesting and stop saying it.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

What makes you think that?

Don't read into it...

 

[JonathanPower]

I am curious. I'm a European Xbox owner (and Playstation too, for that matter). In what sense did Microsoft focused on the US, ignoring everything else? I keep hearing this idea and I don't quite see the reasoning.

MS proposed the Xbox One as a multimedia device with gaming functionalities, while Sony presented the PS4 as a gaming device with multimedia functionalities. The fact that the most part of these Tv features are useless in Europe made it seem like MS only cared about the US market.

 

[fred]

lol There's a good Chance Microsoft is getting Wii U'd in North America lol. It's gonna be an interesting NPD for June.

No mate. The States is the only territory that the Xbox One is doing 'okay' in. Despite that it's only a matter of time before the PS4 has twice the installed userbase of the Xbox One worldwide. The Xbox One is in serious trouble, just nowhere near as serious as you think lol

 

[aries_71]

Is that the way Xbox One was advertised in Europe? I don't live there so I can't say.

No, it was not. Saying that TV and media capability were the focal point of Microsoft marketing push is simply not true in Europe. All the TV and press advertising was centered around gaming, with the likes of Forza and Ryse being protagonists during all winter.

In fact, I would bet that the great majority of Europeans know nothing about the TV capabilities or the HDMI port of the machine.

 

[aries_71]

MS proposed the Xbox One as a multimedia device with gaming functionalities, while Sony presented the PS4 as a gaming device with multimedia functionalities. The fact that the most part of these Tv features are useless in Europe made it seem like MS only cared about the US market.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. Once the TVTVTV pre 2013-E3 was over, Microsoft has said close to nothing about multimedia, and nobody beside Neogaf gaming enthusiasts know anything about that show.

 

[benny_a]

Sorry, but I don't buy it. Once the TVTVTV pre 2013-E3 was over, Microsoft has said close to nothing about multimedia, and nobody beside Neogaf gaming enthusiasts know anything about that show.

The device is still unchanged though. Even if they stopped talking about it, the console is still a product of said vision. Or was the dGPU finally unveiled?
(That is even being generous and going with your assertion that they stopped talking about it, which based on advertisement they have not.)

 

[Jimmyfenix]

I think their advertisement campaign is still confusing. You have Aaron Paul showing off kinect features and still prioritize the kinectless sku at the end of the advert.

 

[aries_71]

The device is still unchanged though. Even if they stopped talking about it, the console is still a product of said vision. Or was the dGPU finally unveiled?

That I agree 100%. Anyway, I remember Microsoft boasting during the 360 heyday that the users were spending more time with the console not gaming than gaming. So their vision was not exclusively based in copious consumption of allucigenics.

 

[bishoptl]

Bollocks, junior,

I live for this stuff

 

[Wickerbasket]

It's not 2:1 in America.

It's outselling it almost 2:1 if you look at it from month to month sales. The Xbox One' sales were very front loaded and then dropped like a rock after Christmas, it's very similar to the Wii U in that respect.

 

[aries_71]

(That is even being generous and going with your assertion that they stopped talking about it, which based on advertisement they have not.)

Didn't see your edit. In my part of Europe there's no talk of any of that in the advertising. Because we are talking about Europe, right?

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Didn't see your edit. In my part of Europe there's no talk of any of that in the advertising. Because we are talking about Europe, right?

In the UK we have that Aaron Paul advert which is basically showing off Kinect/Snap/Tv features.

 

[benny_a]

Didn't see your edit. In my part of Europe there's no talk of any of that in the advertising. Because we are talking about Europe, right?

In Germany the tagline is that the Xbox One is the place where gaming and entertainment is being merged. They even say "all-in-one entertainment system" because saying things in English is cool.

I'd say that de-emphasized it, but that there was no talk after E3 is not something I can agree with.

 

[Bgamer90]

It's outselling it almost 2:1 if you look at it from month to month sales.

True but we are also talking about months in which the top selling console is ~200K; a small portion of how much these consoles will sell overall after 4-5 years.

The Xbox One' sales were very front loaded and then dropped like a rock after Christmas, it's very similar to the Wii U in that respect.

All consoles have drops after Christmas... Well, as long as they don't do bad during the Xmas season too (heh). Game and console sales for both of the new consoles in the US have been nowhere near as bad as the Wii U after launch. IIRC, the Wii U still hasn't had a month above 200K in NPD after its first Christmas (in 2012). That's not true for the PS4 and Xbox One though (which both had months above 200K after their first Christmas).

 

[Xando]

Sorry, but I don't buy it. Once the TVTVTV pre 2013-E3 was over, Microsoft has said close to nothing about multimedia, and nobody beside Neogaf gaming enthusiasts know anything about that show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d2TmsVId8

Thats the ad that ran in Germany at launch.
The only time you see gameplay is 5 seconds of titanfall on the other hand you have atleast 20 seconds of Multimedia (movies and skype + football) so please dont say they havent said anything about multimedia since e3 because thats just not true.

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

Next gen consoles are just way too expensive at the moment for your typical Italian to even consider buying one. Most people just go like "lol €400 for a Playstation, fuck that, you can't even pirate it. Just gonna get a pair of shoes and a shirt instead".

What has always surprised me is that consoles and, even more significantly, videogames are much cheaper in the US than in Europe, when, if anything, it should be the other way around since Americans are far more likely to spend large percentages of their income in entertainment than Europeans, and Italians in particular.

 

[aries_71]

In the UK we have that Aaron Paul advert which is basically showing off Kinect/Snap/Tv features.

I stand corrected, then. Thanks. Not seen them in Italy, France or Spain though. In fact advertising is reduced drastically, compared to holidays season.

 

[benny_a]

It's also a bit of a strange thing to say that they aren't advertising it Entertainment when the point was that the Entertainment options in Europe are drastically reduced compared to the US.
If you go to Canada already quite a few of the features of the Xbox One do not work due to the way all these entertainment deals work out.

So how would you advertise it to the same degree if you don't have the same degree of availability? You'd just be lying or making commercials and having to put asterisks and explaining that these things are coming in the future.

True. But let's be fair... They are selling you Forza, Titanfall, FIFA and Dead Rising. Nobody in the target audience would think about TV with such advert, don't we think?

Even if they would, it wouldn't work because the Xbox One is not compatible with the way the vast majority of german TV is distributed.

 

[aries_71]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d2TmsVId8

Thats the ad that ran in Germany at launch.
The only time you see gameplay is 5 seconds of titanfall on the other hand you have atleast 20 seconds of Multimedia (movies and skype + football) so please dont say they havent said anything about multimedia since e3 because thats just not true.

True. But let's be fair... They are selling you Forza, Titanfall, FIFA and Dead Rising. Nobody in the target audience would think about TV with such advert, don't we think?

 

[Darksol]

It's not 2:1 in America.

Indeed, my bad.

 

[barit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6d2TmsVId8

Thats the ad that ran in Germany at launch.
The only time you see gameplay is 5 seconds of titanfall on the other hand you have atleast 20 seconds of Multimedia (movies and skype + football) so please dont say they havent said anything about multimedia since e3 because thats just not true.

Funny how they advise a game that was banned over here. No Dead Rising 3 for us flower power germans.

 

[Guymelef]

I live for this stuff

Downgrade.

 

[Xando]

Funny how they advise a game that was banned over here. No Dead Rising 3 for us flower power germans.

Yeah i guess the english football players are a real catcher too

 

[fred]

True but we are also talking about months in which the top selling console is ~200K; a small portion of how much these consoles will sell overall after 4-5 years.



All consoles have drops after Christmas... Well, as long as they don't do bad during the Xmas season too (heh). Game and console sales for both of the new consoles in the US have been nowhere near as bad as the Wii U after launch. IIRC, the Wii U still hasn't had a month above 200K in NPD after its first Christmas (in 2012). That's not true for the PS4 and Xbox One though (which both had months above 200K after their first Christmas).

The Wii U and Xbox One are in similar positions though, although the Xbox One isn't flopping quite as bad as the Wii U has been so far - but there really isn't a great deal in it. I personally don't believe that there are more than 4.5m Xbox Ones in homes worldwide. That's only around 1m units difference between the installed userbase of the Xbox One now and the installed userbase of the Wii U this time last year.

The fact that Microsoft have said bugger all about sales as opposed to shipments speaks volumes to me. The Xbox One is in trouble. They've still got time to turn things around of course but they don't have anywhere near the stable of system selling IPs that Sony and Nintendo have.

And how long will third parties be willing to see PS4 SKUs selling twice as many units as Xbox One SKUs before they think about dropping support..? A year? Two..?

 

[Coxy]

Why are gaming market share % numbers lower in non-US and non-JPN countries? 210,000/60,000,000 is lower than the US market share %. Is gaming not that big outside the US and Japan?

they arent, your statement simply isnt true, Ireland has the highest console/population rate in the world

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

they arent, your statement simply isnt true, Ireland has the highest console/population rate in the world

Yeah but Europe as a whole doesn't.

A lot of this is probably that Europe includes a bunch of Eastern European countries that have lower income levels (and stronger traditions of PC gaming, probably). I wonder how many countries you would have to exclude for Europe's console penetration rate to be comparable to the US's or Japan's, though.

It does seem from the SELL data linked a few pages ago that Italy is just a much weaker console market than its size would suggest. Spain, which is both smaller and poorer, still has a higher number of absolute console sales compared to Italy.

 

[Bgamer90]

The Wii U and Xbox One are in similar positions though,

No they aren't. No where close. Wii U's third party support was already drying up after its first 6 months. Xbox One's third party support is solid and looks to remain solid due to third party game selling well on the system. On top of that the Xbox One has sold better when it comes to the same timeframe.

...I personally don't believe that there are more than 4.5m Xbox Ones in homes worldwide. That's only around 1m units difference between the installed userbase of the Xbox One now and the installed userbase of the Wii U this time last year.

....And this is with the Xbox One having tough competition against the PS4. The Wii U is the successor to the top selling console of last gen and this is on top of it having a whole year to itself without any same gen console competition (2012-2013).

The fact that Microsoft have said bugger all about sales as opposed to shipments speaks volumes to me.

They aren't saying anything about worldwide sales more than likely due to the console not being near PS4 worldwide sales.

The Xbox One is in trouble. They've still got time to turn things around of course but they don't have anywhere near the stable of system selling IPs that Sony and Nintendo have...

Maybe not Nintendo, but Sony? Halo and Gears were system selling IPs especially in America. Sony's biggest franchises right now are probably Uncharted and Gran Turismo but Gran Turismo took a pretty big drop during the PS3 gen. Overall I would say that Sony and MS pretty much have around the same number of huge system selling IPs.

And how long will third parties be willing to see PS4 SKUs selling twice as many units as Xbox One SKUs before they think about dropping support..? A year? Two..?

How about never? This is really silly. You don't drop support of one console just because there's another console selling more... Especially when you have a good sized userbase on the other (lower selling) console that's actually buying multiple games. That would be cutting out on inevitable money and I'm pretty sure that that is the last thing that any of these companies want to do with how much these big name third party games are costing these companies to make.

 

[Tallshortman]

Title is odd, comes off as saying xbone has sold 150k LTD compared to 210k from PS4, instead of 150k projected annual sales.

 

[aries_71]

The fact that Microsoft have said bugger all about sales as opposed to shipments speaks volumes to me. The Xbox One is in trouble. They've still got time to turn things around of course but they don't have anywhere near the stable of system selling IPs that Sony and Nintendo have.

And how long will third parties be willing to see PS4 SKUs selling twice as many units as Xbox One SKUs before they think about dropping support..? A year? Two..?

I agree that numbers look bad, but I don't see stables of system selling IP at Sony. I mean, Uncharted will sell machines whether Halo won't? Or Drive Club vs horizon? Etc...

And come on, you can't seriously believe third party is dropping support to a machine that will sell by the millions. They are similar architectures, and once developed on an Intel machine, porting it to the consoles will not be an herculean task.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Sorry, but I don't buy it. Once the TVTVTV pre 2013-E3 was over, Microsoft has said close to nothing about multimedia, and nobody beside Neogaf gaming enthusiasts know anything about that show.

Are we talking about MS Xbox One unveiling? Because that was all over CNN/FOX/NBC news.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

I agree that numbers look bad, but I don't see stables of system selling IP at Sony. I mean, Uncharted will sell machines whether Halo won't? Or Drive Club vs horizon? Etc...

And come on, you can't seriously believe third party is dropping support to a machine that will sell by the millions. They are similar architectures, and once developed on an Intel machine, porting it to the consoles will not be an herculean task.

WiiU and PSVita also sold by the millions, this isn't indicative of anything. If the publishers don't see great consoles on a platform they will drop it if things don't change. It's just how businesses work.

 

[fred]

I agree that numbers look bad, but I don't see stables of system selling IP at Sony. I mean, Uncharted will sell machines whether Halo won't? Or Drive Club vs horizon? Etc...

And come on, you can't seriously believe third party is dropping support to a machine that will sell by the millions. They are similar architectures, and once developed on an Intel machine, porting it to the consoles will not be an herculean task.

If third parties start to lose money due to the Xbox One SKUs not selling enough to make a profit from that support they will drop it. We could see multiplatform games coming to the PC and PS4 only.

It's only a matter of time before there are twice as many PS4s in homes, and that gap is getting wider every day.

Saying it isn't going to happen 'because Microsoft' is just as daft as saying something is or isn't going to happen 'because Nintendo'. These companies are running businesses, and are in business to make profit. If they're losing money they will drop support no matter who the platform holder is.

 

[Bgamer90]

If third parties start to lose money due to the Xbox One SKUs not selling enough to make a profit from that support they will drop it. We could see multiplatform games coming to the PC and PS4 only.

This only makes sense if the multiplatform games are coming to the Xbox One only (which wouldn't be the case seeing as they are, you know, multiplatform games). PS4 sold more and I'm assuming it sold enough for some multiplats to reach their profit point, therefore (as I said before) Xbox One versions of multiplats would just be more money coming in for the company/companies that are making the game(s).

It's only a matter of time before there are twice as many PS4s in homes, and that gap is getting wider every day.

Doesn't matter. The PS2 completely crushed the Xbox and Gamecube in sales (more than 2:1) but yet those systems (well, mainly the Xbox) had pretty solid third party support and this was at a time in which games were much cheaper to make in comparison to now (inflation included). It just doesn't make sense.

Saying it isn't going to happen 'because Microsoft' is just as daft as saying something is or isn't going to happen 'because Nintendo'. These companies are running businesses, and are in business to make profit. If they're losing money they will drop support no matter who the platform holder is.

No it's not the same. The reason why Nintendo lost third party support was due to reasons that have been built up for almost the past decade with one of those reasons being the fact that Nintendo systems don't have big online userbases for core multiplat games.

As I said before, games are selling well enough on the Xbox One for the system to continue on having good third party support. It's only inevitable for the sales to remain the same or get even better as more people buy Xbox Ones during these next few years. It's really in no spot to lose third party support. XB1 game sales have been no where near the same level as Wii U games sales. You don't drop support of a system if that system's userbase is actually buying many games.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Title is odd, comes off as saying xbone has sold 150k LTD compared to 210k from PS4, instead of 150k projected annual sales.

But the crocodile is eating the 150k

I tried to put as much information into the title and may have ended up making it more confusing than it needed to be. My bad :\

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

....And this is with the Xbox One having tough competition against the PS4. The Wii U is the successor to the top selling console of last gen and this is on top of it having a whole year to itself without any same gen console competition (2012-2013).

That year of absolute toxicity about the platform amongst gamers and the whisper campaign that it was worse than a PS360 / chalkboard / reflection in the glass of rain outside?

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Doesn't matter. The PS2 completely crushed the Xbox and Gamecube in sales (more than 2:1) but yet those systems (well, mainly the Xbox) had pretty solid third party support and this was at a time in which games were much cheaper to make in comparison to now (inflation included). It just doesn't make sense.

No one is going to be happy if the Xbone has original Xbox levels of third party support.

 

[Bgamer90]

That year of absolute toxicity about the platform amongst gamers and the whisper campaign that it was worse than a PS360 / chalkboard / reflection in the glass of rain outside?

That definitely hurt it too no doubt. But still, it had the whole year to itself where as the Xbox One has had a same gen direct competitor since launch. The systems are on completely different levels.

No one is going to be happy if the Xbone has original Xbox levels of third party support.

Really? The system was very Ameican focused which seems to be the bulk of present day multiplat games. Plus the system was known by a decent number for being better for multiplats vs. the competition at the time.