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KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW

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itsinmyveins

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Y2Kev said:
Yeah, I definitely agree. I'm only saying is that you hear a lot of like, "This intense action is all scripted!" regarding other games (Resistance 2 was a recent example) and it's like...but you just busted a nut over that in this other game.

But then you have to take into consideration that the other game might have done a better job of hiding the scripted sequences. I don't like scripted stuff per se, but it can definitely add a lot of atmosphere to a game if done properly.

I've been playing some Resistance 2 and I'm just finding the game mediocre over all, but I haven't really reacted too much on the scripted stuff there yet.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
ItsInMyVeins said:
But then you have to take into consideration that the other game might have done a better job of hiding the scripted sequences. I don't like scripted stuff per se, but it can definitely add a lot of atmosphere to a game if done properly.

I've been playing some Resistance 2 and I'm just finding the game mediocre over all, but I haven't really reacted too much on the scripted stuff there yet.
I don't like Resistance 2-- I think it fails on like most levels. But I don't think we should see something like, "The enemies always pop up in the same areas!" as a criticism by a reviewer who didn't mention it in some other game. Hiding/failure to hide scripting is another area where people sort of argue without a real reference point that can lead to confusion.

All I'm really asking for is a broader sense of perspective maybe.
 
Y2Kev said:
I don't like Resistance 2-- I think it fails on like most levels. But I don't think we should see something like, "The enemies always pop up in the same areas!" as a criticism by a reviewer who didn't mention it in some other game. Hiding/failure to hide scripting is another area where people sort of argue without a real reference point that can lead to confusion.

All I'm really asking for is a broader sense of perspective maybe.


its not about where the enemy pops up it how the enemy reacts to what i do. Every game has some sort of scripting but to have it there constantly and make you feel like you are just going through to motions to trigger another scripted event is really dull.
 

Kibbles

Member
iceatcs said:
Another compare of improvement, I can't wait for Dec2008 and final build to see how much further :O

Killzone2Com2.jpg

Wow, seriously. Grayzone on the left, awesome-sauce on the right.
 

itsinmyveins

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Y2Kev said:
Again, agree to disagree. I discovered I needed to rush to the back corner of the TV station on my first playthrough and that was pretty much it for my honeymoon with the game.

Yeah, I had to that too, but it didn't spoil the game for me. I guess there were a few parts like that which annoyed me, but overall, I thought the single player campaign was great. The issues mainly show their ugly faces when you're playing on a harder difficulty, and that's when the single player campaign starts to suck.

Y2Kev said:
I don't like Resistance 2-- I think it fails on like most levels. But I don't think we should see something like, "The enemies always pop up in the same areas!" as a criticism by a reviewer who didn't mention it in some other game. Hiding/failure to hide scripting is another area where people sort of argue without a real reference point that can lead to confusion.

All I'm really asking for is a broader sense of perspective maybe.

Well, yeah, I agree about that though. But still, a similar issue can be worse in another game depending on a lot of surrounding stuff.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
ItsInMyVeins said:
Yeah, I had to that too, but it didn't spoil the game for me. I guess there were a few parts like that which annoyed me, but overall, I thought the single player campaign was great. The issues mainly show their ugly faces when you're playing on a harder difficulty, and that's when the single player campaign starts to suck.



Well, yeah, I agree about that though. But still, a similar issue can be worse in another game depending on a lot of surrounding stuff.
That's cool. My friend loved it. Well, parts of it. I mean he pulled his hair out in the War Room level. I couldn't do veteran on that level, I quit.
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
Killzone2Com2.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a female face with a red smile on the wall you can see through the tire.

Unsee that. :p
 

DoomGyver

Member
TTP said:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/iceatcs/Killzone2Com2.jpg
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a female face with a red smile on the wall you can see through the tire.

Unsee that. :p

Damnit TTP.

edit: at least it's not in the new build.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Y2Kev said:
That's cool. My friend loved it. Well, parts of it. I mean he pulled his hair out in the War Room level. I couldn't do veteran on that level, I quit.

What was the level with all the televisions and shit? RPG guys up on the balconies... that's where I quit on verteran. Just pissed me off so much.

And for reference... I got through CoD2 on verteran and I think the majority of CoD3. But that room was so frustrating.

I think CoD4 was incredible the first playthrough on normal difficulty. MP is nice, but not my style... but I see why people enjoy it.

I don't think Killzone and CoD4 a very similar games... apart from being in first person. CoD is an arcadey twitch shooter. Killzone much less so.
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
recklessmind said:
I don't think Killzone and CoD4 a very similar games... apart from being in first person. CoD is an arcadey twitch shooter. Killzone much less so.

In a sense, COD : Killzone = Grid : Gran Turismo. It's the 1st shooter that has me talk about weapons in terms of "control" and "maneuverability" instead of just fire rate and recoil.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Kibbles said:
Wow, seriously. Grayzone on the left, awesome-sauce on the right.

I wonder if it was their intention all along to add more color to the game, or if that was a response to media coverage/criticism.

I like the new look... but that second screen from the top, from the 07 footage is one of my all time favorite screens. Just looks so smoggy and polluted... I love it. You can almost feel how bad it would be to breath that shit.

TTP said:
In a sense, COD : Killzone = Grid : Gran Turismo. It's the 1st shooter that has me talk about weapons in terms of "control" and "maneuverability" instead of just fire rate and recoil.

I really appreciate that GG made an effort to get away from "floating camera on a stick" player movement. It's not completely realistic, but it's much more reality-based than most shooters. And then there are the weapons... they are so good.
 
recklessmind said:
I wonder if it was their intention all along to add more color to the game, or it that was a response to media coverage/criticism.

June 27th 1UP Yours, something about Guerilla asked Shane if the game was too brown :)lol) and later levels apparently would have different color palette. So who knows?
 

Clinton514

Member
Tempy said:
For Killzone, many things are used for reference and inspiration. World War II is obviously the biggest influence.
Architecture for instance I know that they've looked at Italian fascist architecture. Radec Academy is a result of that. For the cluttered alleys seen in Salamun Market MP, and levels 2&3 in SP, Hong Kong alleys were referenced. If it doesn't exactly look like Italian fascist architecture or Hong Kong alleys, it's because those are just inspiration starting points, and not "Hey, let's copy this brick for brick".
I think if the lead visual artist could choose what to work on, he'd do a Judge Dredd game though.
Yes that 1UP feature when Shane visited the offices there was great. I liked the Hong Kong references. Also, I absolutely enjoyed the industrial sections of Killzone on the PS2.

2eduu7c.jpg
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
recklessmind said:
I really appreciate that GG made an effort to get away from "floating camera on a stick" player movement. It's not completely realistic, but it's much more reality-based than most shooters. And then there are the weapons... they are so good.

Besides it's also perfect for controllers. I can't imagine it being as effective in terms of immersion with a mouse.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
TTP said:
Besides it's also perfect for controllers. I can't imagine it being as effective in terms of immersion with a mouse.

I might take some heat for this, but I prefer console shooter over PC shooters for that very reason.
 

itsinmyveins

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Y2Kev said:
That's cool. My friend loved it. Well, parts of it. I mean he pulled his hair out in the War Room level. I couldn't do veteran on that level, I quit.

I played right up to the War Room-level on veteranm and that's when I quit. Like I said, the game's broken on that difficulty. Instead of smarter AI you just get enemies with some kind of Superman sight and who're faster than the Flash. And of course, respawns.

But just to take another example; what did you think of Bioshock?
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
ItsInMyVeins said:
I played right up to the War Room-level on veteranm and that's when I quit. Like I said, the game's broken on that difficulty. Instead of smarter AI you just get enemies with some kind of Superman sight and who're faster than the Flash. And of course, respawns.

But just to take another example; what did you think of Bioshock?
Some things.
 

Enojado

Member
Glad to see the thread back on topic with pics. Difference is pretty striking. Can't wait till Jan. 27th.

Tempy and the rest of GG deserve a shit ton of credit for what they have pulled off.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Enojado said:
Glad to see the thread back on topic with pics. Difference is pretty striking. Can't wait till Jan. 27th.

Tempy and the rest of GG deserve a shit ton of credit for what they have pulled off.
Yeah, if i lived on Europe i would send them some chocolates.
 

itsinmyveins

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Y2Kev said:

I think I'm agreeing with a lot of stuff there, actually. The best thing about that game, like you say, is the polished setting. I really liked that part. But the action, fighting against splicers, is kinda dull and very repetitive after a while. It's not bad, but it's hardly great either. It doesn't take long before you've got a set of plasmids and start to reuse them throughout the game.

And I think the whole thing with a ton of audio tapes scattered over Rapture is also something surprisingly mediocre in terms of narrative, considering this is something the game gets a lot of cred for. Here, I thought, the thing that stands out is Rapture itself, with all its details telling the story on its own and they spoil it with audio tapes in every room.

The game is really good though, easily a solid 8/10, mainly thanks to the well realized setting.
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
Enojado said:
Glad to see the thread back on topic with pics. Difference is pretty striking. Can't wait till Jan. 27th.

Tempy and the rest of GG deserve a shit ton of credit for what they have pulled off.

What happens on January 27th?

It's February, non January :p
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
TTP said:
What happens on January 27th?

It's February, non January :p
Damn, he is gonna be so dissapointed on January 27th :D
 

hulot

Member
recklessmind said:
I really appreciate that GG made an effort to get away from "floating camera on a stick" player movement. It's not completely realistic, but it's much more reality-based than most shooters. And then there are the weapons... they are so good.
Of any game I'd make this complaint, it be this one for no body or legs only because everything else is there and gives you that sense of weight.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Detail.jpg


That pic is fucking sweet. New to me.

Anyone have any good shots of the ISA scout? I've only seen a couple screens. :/
 

ianp622

Member
TTP said:
Besides it's also perfect for controllers. I can't imagine it being as effective in terms of immersion with a mouse.

Besides, PC gamers expect to have their weapons be unrealistically accurate. For a PC shooter, the variable should be your skill with the mouse, and players don't like when their skill with a mouse is negated by recoil.
 

Schrade

Member
recklessmind said:
Detail.jpg


That pic is fucking sweet. New to me.

Anyone have any good shots of the ISA scout? I've only seen a couple screens. :/
FUCK that is awesome! I want a pristine version of that one...
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
I love the character design.
I hope GG releases some artwork with the character design.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
hulot said:
Of any game I'd make this complaint, it be this one for no body or legs only because everything else is there and gives you that sense of weight.

I'm on the fence about it. In any game I've seen that attempts a first person body (Breakdown and Mirror's Edge included) it's just not done very convincingly. You look down and the feet slide around and shit... it's kind of dumb.

Some devs do first person body only at certain times in the game, where they have total control over the animation, and I think it works pretty good. Gearbox does this with the Brothers in Arms games, where you see your body during a parachute drop, or when you get blown off your feet. GG even did something similar in the original Killzone with the context sensitive player vault.

I think what needs to happen, if some dev is going to do it proper, is that the game has to be built as a third person shooter. The animation and player movement has to be good enough to hold up in OTS, and then they could push the view into FPWV and the body would behave more realistically. Unfortunately, people accustomed to traditional FPS controls would lose their shit. I don't know if you could halfass it and not suffer major backlash. I think a dev would really half to address a number of common issues and be able find innovative ways to resolve them, and do it all at once. Not over the course of a few games.

I hope some dev makes an OTS shooter, focusing on animation/player movement and throws in the option to jump into FPWV. We've been teased with stuff like that, but never seen it really be the focus. I think if you do that right then people would respond well to it. I'm not a developer though... have no idea what would be involved in such an undertaking, or if it's even feasible. I hope someday.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Clinton514 said:
Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?
Its better just to talk about the game and not about the reviewers.
I want more tech info about KZ2 !!!
 

alba

Little is the new Big
recklessmind said:
http://www.cynamite.de/imgserver/bdb/241700/241772/Detail.jpg

That pic is fucking sweet. New to me.

Anyone have any good shots of the ISA scout? I've only seen a couple screens. :/

oo time to make an avatar out of that :D
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
SolidSnakex said:
Both the Helghast and ISA Scouts are some of the coolest designs i've seen in any game.

I know... but there isn't much good media out there for the ISA model. I've been looking for hours.

Someone help me... so I can get back to studying for Organic and not fail college. :lol

alba said:
oo time to make an avatar out of that :D

A smart crop and it'd look sweet. If you can avoid it, don't cut off the end of the barrel.
 

WinFonda

Member
Clinton514 said:
Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?
Funny he does nothing to excuse the ridiculousness of assigning a game a grade or score in a preview in the first place, which is what I think most people had issue with. If anyone can name any other game from any other website that has ever got that treatment, I'd love to see it.
 

Schrade

Member
Clinton514 said:
Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?
That guy is a fucking TOOL. He did not have the part in the parenthesis in his comments. He added that for this post. THAT was what people were upset about, him harping on the game without giving a reason. And that fucking reason was already acknowledged as fixed or will be fixed in a later build by Guerilla.

Scooter, nice try with the internet tough guy stuff but you fail...serious failure.
 

KZObsessed

Member
Clinton514 said:
Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

What I don't understand is how you can come to a conclusion on a final score of a game based on a short preview. He says if it was released now it would be a B... so if it releases with only 6 levels and all the story elements missing? Has he even put time into the online? Is he including that in the score?

It's just a ridiculous comment. It seems he's already judged the game, already formed an opinion and graded it based on the first 6 levels. And he's wondering why he's getting shit for it?

Does he grade other shooters based on the first few levels?
 

Clinton514

Member
Fersis said:
Its better just to talk about the game and not about the reviewers.
I want more tech info about KZ2 !!!
Ok ok my bad.

More info from the storyline

(Start of Killzone 1)

Autarch Scolar Visari outlines his bold strategy for changing the face of governance in this system by returning to Vekta and seizing it again as a Helghast colony. Ignoring the many generations of UCN settlement under the ISA he inflames the passions of the Helghast for revenge. The Helghast High Command takes the bait and eagerly declares loyalty to Visari for the coming campaign - offering to make him Emperor if it succeeds.

plans.jpg


Visari's plan is simple:

1. Utilize Deep cover agent ISA General Stuart Adams to neutralize the Orbital Defense Platforms.
2. Utilize Deep cover agent ISA General Dwight Stratson to gain access to Intelligence and lure the ISA troops out of the cities into the field.
3. Mount an invasion of Vekta whilst the Orbital Defense Platforms are down, under the command of General Joseph Lente.
4. Reactivate the Defense Platforms in time to defend Vekta against the inevitable support fleet sent by the UCA.
5. Declare the system to be under Helghast control and sue for peace with the UCN whilst the UCA is still reeling from the loss of its fleet.
6. Use the resources of Helghan and Vekta as well as technology captured from the wrecked UCA Navy fleet to build a Helghast fleet capable of defending the system from the UCA Navy.
7. Begin charging trade tariffs for passage through Helghast space to Earth again.
8. Blockade the Earth and strangle the UCN into submission.
9. Capture the UCN Navy Yards and Orbital defenses. Leave Earth's population to starve to death. Build an enormous fleet and establish Helghast hegemony over all colonies.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Clinton514 said:
Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?
One comment to that blog entry is "People will always find something to complain about" which i understand is to "defend" the 1up guy (Thierry Nguyen), and i think that is cool, but after i saw the 1up video where they talked about Killzone 2, then i thought of the same thing, that people will always find something to complain about.

I dont think it anything wrong with pointing out bad things in a game, but it seems that 1up (atleast 1 or 2 of the persons in 1up, i dont remember their names, sorry) was so focused on the negative stuff about Killzone 2 instead of focusing on the good things. I think that is what some people reacted to. But maybe some of people in 1up didnt really like Killzone 2 that much from what they have played, so then what they said might be "valid points" (or what i shall say) in their opinion :)
 

antiloop

Member
Clinton514 said:
Wow, has anyone read this yet.

1UP


What's with all the controversy surrounding this game?

some scripted sequences necessary for mission progress didn't happen (due to the friendly A.I. failing to trigger said sequences) that could garner a B.

B for a broken game? Damn this game must be good. :p
 
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