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KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW
- Thread starter Wollan
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Dibbz said:
I made a formatting error or two, but with that much to do, I wasn't really sweating it. :lol
To get back to our conversation:
I do understand why some people are saying "I'm supporting Helghan" but I don't agree with it, since it means "I'm supporting the Helghast".
First off, we should accept that the Helghan Corporation almost certainly did sabotage the initial colonization fleet, killing thousands of people so that they could obtain the rights to colonize Alpha Centauri. You don't build a massive colonization fleet (such and endeavor almost bankrupted the UCN keep in mind) on the chance that something goes wrong.
Another thing to be up front about is: Yes, the UCN is oppressive.
However (and this doesn't excuse how oppressive they are, but: If materials stop coming to Earth the billions of people there die.
When you look at it like that, how could the UCN stand by while the Helghan Corporation started to assume control of humanity (via being the hub between Earth and the other colonies) and started to choke off the UCNs influence. Now I'm not saying that the Helghan Corporation wanted to suffocate Earth and condemn billions of people to death, but they certainly were all about self interest, and were at best no better than the UCN/Earth. Keep in mind that the Helghan Corporations tariff was in violation of the UCN rules for space travel etc to which Helghan and Vekta still applied (I believe? I might be wrong, it depends on if the purchase voided that?)
To that end, the eventual Helghan dominion/rule, whatever would have happened had the Helghan Corporation been allowed to continue to assume control and influence, had to be deterred.
After the Helghan Corporation was dissolved, there's no denying that the ISA Governor of Vekta probably handled the response to Helghan terrorism of an 'non Helghan colonist' poorly. But something tells me sitting down and talking with those people wouldn't have accomplished much either, that's just speculation, though, all sides have blood on their hands.
The Helghast who chose to leave did so of their own free will. They weren't kicked off of Vekta, and they chose to try and colonize a barely habitable world rather than face persecution from ISA authority due to a sizable minority having engaged in terrorist acts.
Now let's fast foward to Visari. He's right, the planet changed them. Or rather they allowed themselves to be changed. With the resurgence of the Helghan Corporation and Visari, 'Peace, Liberty, Freedom' became 'Loyalty, Drive, Obedience' (or whatnot). When the depression hit Vekta and Helghan, Vekta was unable to send aid (although it's questionable if they would have either way, given how they had Helghan trading at a disadvantage etc).
Now it's important to remember that yes, the UCN, and to a degree the ISA (with the blockade) treated the Helghan people poorly, terribly in fact, but as a whole it was due to the actions of the Helghan Corporation that perpetuated the situations. The fallout was long and harsh and the UCN/ISA all bare responsibility for what the current Helghan people have become.
That's why they need to stop them.
Visari's plan is simple:
1. Utilize deep-cover agent ISA General Stuart Adams to neutralize the orbital defense platforms.
2. Utilize deep-cover agent ISA General Dwight Stratson to gain access to intelligence and lure the ISA troops out of the cities.
3. Mount an invasion of Vekta whilst the orbital defense platforms are down, under the command of General Joseph Lente.
4. Reactivate the defense platforms in time to defend Vekta against the inevitable support fleet sent by the UCA.
5. Declare the system to be under Helghast control and sue for peace with the UCN whilst the UCA is still reeling from the loss of its fleet.
6. Use the resources of Helghan and Vekta, as well as technology captured from the wrecked UCA Navy fleet, to build a Helghast fleet capable of defending the system from the UCA Navy.
7. Begin charging trade tariffs for passage through Helghast space to Earth again.
8. Blockade the Earth and strangle the UCN into submission.
9. Capture the UCN Navy shipyards and orbital defenses. Leave Earth's population to starve to death. Build an enormous fleet and establish Helghast hegemony over all colonies.
-------------------
So what you will about the people that created the current Helghan civilization. But would you rather have the varying levels of independence with the UCN/ISA/ICSA or the Helghast ruling over the entire galaxy?
By supporting the Halghast it would be siding with the principles of condemning billions of people to death, and imposing a tyrannical, and even more oppressive way of life (not to mention overt racism seeing as Visari believes Helghast to be better than 'Humans') over the entire Galaxy.
Seep said:Me too, 351 years in the future and they are still using gunpowder based weaponry. yeah right.
Probably somewhere along the way they realized that they don't need much more expensive tech in the case of rifles and guns to kill humans. Shit man we so fragile. Just wait till we meet aliens with fucking bullet proof bodies then will start coming up with some real shit.
templeusox
Banned
NURBS confirmed?
fortified_concept
Banned
Wow I can't believe I read the entire backstory. It was actually interesting. Both sides sound like huge douchebags which makes the story even more realistic.
\don't have the energy to read through the remaining backstory, feel like total shit over here and I gotta get up for work again tomorrow.
I did find this over at Amazon though.
Please don't let this be the UK boxart. It's horrible. Gimme the shark teeth box art.
Oh and about bullets in the year 2200 or whatever, who gives a shit. The guns look fucking amazing and feel amazing. Better than shitty lazer guns or some other retarded crap. Gun that shoots
doesn't count because it's awesome.
I did find this over at Amazon though.
Please don't let this be the UK boxart. It's horrible. Gimme the shark teeth box art.
Oh and about bullets in the year 2200 or whatever, who gives a shit. The guns look fucking amazing and feel amazing. Better than shitty lazer guns or some other retarded crap. Gun that shoots
lighting
KZObsessed
Member
^^ That's just an old placeholder.
fatigues_gasolini
Member
Seep said:Me too, 351 years in the future and they are still using gunpowder based weaponry. yeah right.
Alot of futuristic series still have regular firearms.
shadowsdarknes
Member
All this backstory stuff has me thinking... what if Sev and his crew join up with the Helghast.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Kafel said:So who is playing the first game in anticipation ?
I got to the final battle and stopped. It just becomes a grind.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
shadowsdarknes said:
IIRC there was a rumour about the ISA and Helghast joining forces to fight the UCN or something.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Aye, what I have read that if the bullet go too fast by some new technical will make it pointless because if you shot someone will still able to survive and move for few seconds. It cause delay the body system that you got shot because it is so fast.gamerecks said:
And other side - War Business. Main thing in the Government market - they would like to improve weapons technology but it may be impossible to allow infinity ammo weapons because bullet/bomb are the biggest part in the War Business. Business Rule, if profit - stick on the plan till decided.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
iceatcs said:
Razor/Blades strategy. But the main thing is that weapons are always made by the lowest bidder, and I'm assuming that 5.56mm chambered weapons will be even cheaper than dirt, and reliable in dirt, in 100-300 years time.
I can't believe I'm discussing this seriously.
It's great to read discussion of the backstory - I'm glad that people have felt conflicted as to who the 'bad guys' are.
The Helghast are always meant to be the bad guys - they're a ruthless dictatorship - but I wanted to give them context for their actions. Dictatorships rarely spring into being out of fresh air.
Have the Helghast suffered? Oh yes! But does that excuse their present plans and actions?
The Helghast are always meant to be the bad guys - they're a ruthless dictatorship - but I wanted to give them context for their actions. Dictatorships rarely spring into being out of fresh air.
Have the Helghast suffered? Oh yes! But does that excuse their present plans and actions?
MvmntInGrn
Member
Ello said:
I agree. Its a different perspective on the future. Aliens and Lasers are one way to go but by no means the only way to go.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Zen said:
1. The Helghast corporation was never explicitly named or any hard evidence from the UCN's failure in creating the colony undeir their thumb. Phillip Vekta was enough of a visionary to see the faults and invested to bring colonization outside of terra firma to the private sector in a chance that the people be free... Rather than be stuck under thumb of an oppresive third party. The colonists should determine their fate, no one else.
2. The Helghan Corp and it's two colonies were the only autonomous (and for a while the only wealthy) colony in space...Why was that? They were at a level of freedom where they did not have to depend on UCN aid becuase they funded their own travel, not split a sum among many systems, the run into the repercussions of poor planning and a depletion of resources. The aid needed for the outer colonies passed through the AC system, but would you expect the entire colony to go broke? They funded themselves into space, and it was their right to continue to do so. The UCN controlled all the space between the colonies with a certian autonomy allowed to the AC system.
3. The circumstances of the aftermath of the first extrasolar war were barbaric on the part of the UCA. They massed a naval fleet using vast resources, resources which could have been used for aid to the outer colonies, all the while while the Helghan Corp tried negotiating with the UCN over its reversal of agreed terms with the Helghan Corps purchase of total freedom. The UCA fleet destroyed all the intestellar infastructure of the Helghan corp (customs fleet and civial stations). Then they left an entire people for dead on a known toxic planet. Then the UCA moved to Vekta where they threatened planetary bombardment of civilain populations. The leadership surrendered but that decapatation was not enough. The UCN took control of Vekta moving in colonists from UCN systems and segragating the native colonists to the slums and shanti towns, from their homes of generations. Yes, there were those who pushed back against this tyranny but they were stopped as the UCN pushed again on the innocent. The Vektan Helghasts were forced from their homes to make way for pro UCA settlers, those who fought back....were exterminated.
4. The native colonists of Vekta left out of a desire for freedom. The very same casue which got them to Vekta. The people left for dead on Helghan cried out into the depths of space not for help, but as a beacon of freedom in a galaxy held at gunpoint by the UCN. The Vektan Helghast went to join their brothers, as an act where they would rather endure the hardsips of freedom, rather than the lavishness of oppression. The UCN did not offer even a single grain to those who left Vekta, even knowing the hostile nature of Helghan.
5. Helghan changed them physically but also their spirit and desire for freedom. The Helghast are willing to stand against the UCN like no other colony has, as an autnomous colony they fourished, and the stuggling UCN resented that and went to war. Even after losing their jewel of Vekta, the people even their darkest hours stood steadfast in their quest for freedom. Visari gave guidance to that dream, and a way to bring down the UCA so the colonies of man would be free to govern themselves and each colony could stand shoulder to shoulder as equals.
If siding with the Helghast aligns me with the goals of freedom and self determination then I see no problem with that.
BTW finally validated and out of lurking shadows.
anonymousAversa
Member
:lol :lol :lolfortified_concept said:
ha. nice.
Dubbedinenglish said:1. The Helghast corporation was never explicitly named or any hard evidence from the UCN's failure in creating the colony undeir their thumb. Phillip Vekta was enough of a visionary to see the faults and invested to bring colonization outside of terra firma to the private sector in a chance that the people be free... Rather than be stuck under thumb of an oppresive third party. The colonists should determine their fate, no one else.
2. The Helghan Corp and it's two colonies were the only autonomous (and for a while the only wealthy) colony in space...Why was that? They were at a level of freedom where they did not have to depend on UCN aid becuase they funded their own travel, not split a sum among many systems, the run into the repercussions of poor planning and a depletion of resources. The aid needed for the outer colonies passed through the AC system, but would you expect the entire colony to go broke? They funded themselves into space, and it was their right to continue to do so. The UCN controlled all the space between the colonies with a certian autonomy allowed to the AC system.
3. The circumstances of the aftermath of the first extrasolar war were barbaric on the part of the UCA. They massed a naval fleet using vast resources, resources which could have been used for aid to the outer colonies, all the while while the Helghan Corp tried negotiating with the UCN over its reversal of agreed terms with the Helghan Corps purchase of total freedom. The UCA fleet destroyed all the intestellar infastructure of the Helghan corp (customs fleet and civial stations). Then they left an entire people for dead on a known toxic planet. Then the UCA moved to Vekta where they threatened planetary bombardment of civilain populations. The leadership surrendered but that decapatation was not enough. The UCN took control of Vekta moving in colonists from UCN systems and segragating the native colonists to the slums and shanti towns, from their homes of generations. Yes, there were those who pushed back against this tyranny but they were stopped as the UCN pushed again on the innocent. The Vektan Helghasts were forced from their homes to make way for pro UCA settlers, those who fought back....were exterminated.
4. The native colonists of Vekta left out of a desire for freedom. The very same casue which got them to Vekta. The people left for dead on Helghan cried out into the depths of space not for help, but as a beacon of freedom in a galaxy held at gunpoint by the UCN. The Vektan Helghast went to join their brothers, as an act where they would rather endure the hardsips of freedom, rather than the lavishness of oppression. The UCN did not offer even a single grain to those who left Vekta, even knowing the hostile nature of Helghan.
5. Helghan changed them physically but also their spirit and desire for freedom. The Helghast are willing to stand against the UCN like no other colony has, as an autnomous colony they fourished, and the stuggling UCN resented that and went to war. Even after losing their jewel of Vekta, the people even their darkest hours stood steadfast in their quest for freedom. Visari gave guidance to that dream, and a way to bring down the UCA so the colonies of man would be free to govern themselves and each colony could stand shoulder to shoulder as equals.
If siding with the Helghast aligns me with the goals of freedom and self determination then I see no problem with that.
BTW finally validated and out of lurking shadows.
I bow down to your propaganda :lol
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Zen said:
VICTORIEZ!!!!! :lol
Ahh it's you! Did you guys over at GG decide on a basic history of KZ which you then fleshed out or did you come up with it all?Iain Howe said:
EDIT:- Ok so trying to get caught up here but this is how I see it so far.
Helghans surrendered when the UCN fleet arrived but the UCN didn't think it was enough. They decided to invade Vekta and claim it as their own by pushing Helghans to the slums. Yes Helghans did rebel, it's to be expected. What worse though is even when the Helghans and UCN agreed to part ways the Helghans had to actually pay for their freedom (again).
UCN jump at any opportunity to make a quick buck. It's really pathetic. When they struggle economically though they make sure everyone feels it.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there seperate ISA factions? A faction for each colony is it? Do the ISA fall under the UCN umbrella?
I read the backstory posted a page back last night and I have to say that I'm really hyped for this game now. I know that the game looks great and I love the designs but I was always concerned about the story. As people have mentioned in here, you don't get a clear sense of who's good and who's bad. Both sides have fucked up and you can see the fall that the Helghast are setting themselves up for with Visari in charge but it's compelling enough that you want to know what happens next. I hope you guys at GG have some surprises in store for us come February, I'll be waiting impatiently till then.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Dibbz said:
Each system has it's own ISA for basic security. Officers of each ISA are from UCA command and the ISA is kept in check by the UCA.
It really is interesting. Seems to me like there could be some sort of friction between the ISA and the UCN in this war.Dubbedinenglish said:
Another interesting tid bit is under Colonel Templar's goals/aims it says that he'd preffer a better solution than invading planet Helghan. He doesn't mind if he has to kill Visari instead of capturing him though so it's not like he is taking the Heghan side or anything. It's just really interesting that there are doubts within the high ranking ISA officials.
Dibbz said:
The bare bones of the backstory have obviously been around since Killzone 1, but my job was to flesh it out, add supporting canon, iron out as many continuity errors as I could and ensure that the Helghast weren't 2D mustache twirling bad guys.
From that I wrote the backstory features articles on Killzone.com and the timeline, also on that site.
Needless to say there was a bundle of oversight and the opinions of many highly creative individuals were incorporated.
Dibbz said:
Templar's essentially a humanitarian and being the invading conqueror doesn't sit well with him, I'd say.
As for friction between the ISA and the UCN - there'll be loads. The UCN only loaned the ISA these cruisers to form a planetary blockade and contain the Helghast. They were strictly told not to take any further action until a UCN Tribunal determined the correct action to take.
Eh, short form?
- Helghans take over two new planets (maybe they corrupted the first colonization ships to get to this point)
- one planet is shitty but rich of ressources, one is a nice place to live
- they get very powerful and independet
- one group is there to control them (ISA)
- but this isn't enough for earth people so they take the nice planet away from them, they have to live on the shitty planet
- their imperator somehow manages to get the economy up and running again
- helghan people change because of the planet, have to wear those masks
- they try to get their old planet back, but they loose
- now earth wants them down completly so they go to helghan to finish them off
right?
- Helghans take over two new planets (maybe they corrupted the first colonization ships to get to this point)
- one planet is shitty but rich of ressources, one is a nice place to live
- they get very powerful and independet
- one group is there to control them (ISA)
- but this isn't enough for earth people so they take the nice planet away from them, they have to live on the shitty planet
- their imperator somehow manages to get the economy up and running again
- helghan people change because of the planet, have to wear those masks
- they try to get their old planet back, but they loose
- now earth wants them down completly so they go to helghan to finish them off
right?
Woo-Fu
Banned
Seep said:Me too, 351 years in the future and they are still using gunpowder based weaponry. yeah right.
There are plenty of great reasons to keep the tech tree for your basic firearms as short as possible. The logistics chain behind building and supplying firearms that work on combustion is relatively short and requires only basic technology to supply and maintain. Compare and contrast that with energy weapons(lol).
The argument you should be making is not why gunpowder, but is why not caseless ammunition? Once you come up with a propellant formula that is reasonably inert except when specifically set off, caseless ammo makes for even simpler firearms, supply, and support than traditional firearms.
...and the answer to "why not caseless" is obvious: brass shooting out of the receiver of your gun and tinkling to the ground is pretty damned cool in a videogame.
I have to stop watching those gameplay/cutscenes from the review build on youtube......
Anyways, I'm really concerned about the AI after those videos, not because is that horrible, because it's not that great and that will open the door for 1up/GS etc etc to bring the score down considerably.
Anyways, I'm really concerned about the AI after those videos, not because is that horrible, because it's not that great and that will open the door for 1up/GS etc etc to bring the score down considerably.
SSM25 said:I have to stop watching those gameplay/cutscenes from the review build on youtube......
Anyways, I'm really concerned about the AI after those videos, not because is that horrible, because it's not that great and that will open the door for 1up/GS etc etc to bring the score down considerably.
Dude, they'll bring down Killzone 2's grade a lot just because it lacks the subtle beauty of Halo 3.
lupinko said:
You are joking, but the sad thing is some gaming media have already commented on some of the game environments like the warehouse. Some idiot made the statement that the warehouse could be on earth, but should look different since it's on an alien planet.
Obviously they are not familiar with the back-story to understand that Helghan are actually humans who colonized a different planet. Also, considering most of the work on Helghan is refining the natural materials what the hell would you expect from an warehouse...
It's just stupid shit like this that makes me lose faith in the videogame media. At least do your homework and understand the game story and setting before you make comments out of your ass. I really think the problem is that most of the current gaming media do not take their profession very seriously. It seemed like back in the day you had gaming media that was either really good writers or hardcore gamers who really appreciated their role. It seems like now you just have people who want to act like they are above getting excited about the actual games and it makes no sense IMHO.
Sorry to get a bit off topic
^Agreed...
Since I never played the original I read the backstory posted in this thread and just picked up Liberation on the PSP for $19.99 USD.
Since this is my most anticipated FPS for 2009 I want to get the most out of the experience...
I have to admit knowing a bit more about the backstory helps pull me into the trailers released and the SP campaign. Initially I was just anticipating the MP, but I can honestly say I'm looking forward to playing the SP campaign.
Since I never played the original I read the backstory posted in this thread and just picked up Liberation on the PSP for $19.99 USD.
Since this is my most anticipated FPS for 2009 I want to get the most out of the experience...
I have to admit knowing a bit more about the backstory helps pull me into the trailers released and the SP campaign. Initially I was just anticipating the MP, but I can honestly say I'm looking forward to playing the SP campaign.
NameIess said:
Heh. I just read the backstory on the last page and goddamn is it pretty well written. Hundreds of years worth of war and blockades, it reads like a chronicle of one or two planets in the first Foundation novel (minus Asimov's peerless style I must add). Very well written in any case.
I must admit to writing off the first Killzone due to being a bit of an xbot/Halo 2 fanboy back in the day. But having been impressed time and again by the K2 videos and impressions I might go back and give the first one a go.
I just hope I havent seen too many spoilers in pre-release footage and whatnot.
February next year will be epic though hey. K2, SF4 .... then onto RE5. Cant wait!
D
Deleted member 30609
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Jesus Christ, pull your head out of your ass.NameIess said:
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