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Kotaku: "Destiny Review Scores May Cost Bungie $2.5 Million"

Bonuses based on Metacritic make no sense to me and never have. I feel bad for the men and women who worked on this great game (yes I think it's a great game) having to deal with all the negative reviews and general discontent on the internet surrounding it, and now missing out on their bonuses.

Sometimes I wonder if reviewers would have rated the game higher had they been allowed to play it prior to release and issue their reviews earlier. I get the distinct feeling many of them are pissed about being treated more like regular players and less like celebrities.

You didn't reach your targets, don't get your bonus. Makes perfect sense to me. That's your own fault, completely controllable by your own actions, not an act of God or some unforeseeable event. I don't feel bad for them because they are professionals and the game sold well so they will have their jobs and an opportunity to do better next time.

AFAIK Metacritic scores are usually consensus, there aren't many games which have both 10's and 1's. That shows that the numbers generally mean the same across the spectrum of reviewers. It would be good to see the standard deviation alongside the score to be sure but I'd definitely bet for it being relatively small.
 

Travo

Member
I'll go out on a limb here and assume Bungie would have seriously preferred to have that 2.5 million (or whatever any actual figure might be) rather than not.
Of course, but they were probably banking that the opening week profits would more than cover that. It was worth the gamble.
 

Kinyou

Member
The core game should be rated for the core game and only the core game. Writing off an entire game like this because of a meh launch is idiotic. Bungie needs to add in new content(whether paid or otherwise) to keep people interested till Destiny 2 and beyond. Warframe still doesn't have an endgame after nearly 2 years since open beta. It took 3 Expansions to make the original Borderlands shine. It took 2 years for Blizzard to fix Diablo 3.
What imo is a bit problematic is that they probably won't have the time to do some grant fixes like blizzard did. We already know that Destiny 2 is scheduled for 2016. Any fundamental fixes they come up with they probably rather put into destiny 2 right away instead of fixing an already released game
 

Courage

Member
What imo is a bit problematic is that they probably won't have the time to do some grant fixes like blizzard did. We already know that Destiny 2 is scheduled for 2016. Any fundamental fixes they come up with they probably rather put into destiny 2 right away instead of fixing an already released game

Which is why it makes this more disappointing. It's got that Ubisoft Franchise Syndrome.
 

antitrop

Member
The way I see it is this: A review has two primary purposes, right? One is to offer criticism that can enhance our understanding of a piece of art and give us an insightful, thorough assessment of its strengths and weaknesses. I think we can all agree that it'd be very tough if not impossible to write something like that after spending two days with a game.

The second purpose is to tell people whether or not a game is worth their time/money. I'd argue that review scores don't do a very good job of accomplishing that. They create the illusion of definitive, authoritative criticism, when really they're just arbitrary numbers that mean totally different things to different people. (A 7 at Game Informer, for example, is way different than a 7 at Edge.) To give a review score at all feels silly, but to give one to a game like this after just a few days seems unfair to your readers.

More and more I'm thinking that Destiny feels more akin to something like WoW or even Dota than it does to a traditional video game, and I question the value in providing some sort of definitive quantitative assessment (aka: review score) of a game that will be drastically different in months if not weeks. It's fair for reviewers to want to tell their readers what they think of the game, of course. But scores feel definitive and misleading right now.


I think that review scores are actively hurting video games -- for evidence of that, read this article: http://kotaku.com/metacritic-matters-how-review-scores-hurt-video-games-472462218 -- and I sympathize with the level designers and artists and programmers who may have very well done stellar jobs, putting in countless hours every day just to ship the game, only to miss out on bonuses because someone cranked through the game in two days and decided it was "worth" a 6. I'm baffled and frustrated by the insistence on trying to give quantitative assessments to personal, subjective experiences.

There are rare cases when a game is "objectively" bad -- it's broken, it doesn't function properly, it doesn't do what it promised, etc. Aliens: Colonial Marines comes to mind. It's pretty easy to give that game a 1 and be done with it. But usually, video games deserve so much more than numbers. They really do.

You back yourself up well, thanks for the responses.
 
What imo is a bit problematic is that they probably won't have the time to do some grant fixes like blizzard did. We already know that Destiny 2 is scheduled for 2016. Any fundamental fixes they come up with they probably rather put into destiny 2 right away instead of fixing an already released game
Is Destiny 2 going to be a completely stand-alone product, or will it somehow add more to expand the existing world - like an MMO would? Does it start you over from scratch or take the journey from 20th level to 40th?

Is this known or hinted about at all? Because if its is MMO-ish, changes to mechanics could benefit Destiny 1 and 2 and whatever else comes down the line.
 
Is Destiny 2 going to be a completely stand-alone product, or will it somehow add more to expand the existing world - like an MMO would? Does it start you over from scratch or take the journey from 20th level to 40th?

Is this known or hinted about at all? Because if its is MMO-ish, changes to mechanics could benefit Destiny 1 and 2 and whatever else comes down the line.

I hope it's a big expansion. A Destiny 2 starting all over would be a tragic decision.
 

SerTapTap

Member
If amount of content were the core problem with Destiny I would sympathize a lot more with the "reviews are too early! It's like an MMO(tm)". Even though Bungie has said a billion times it's not an MMO.

Here's the thing. Destiny's last friggin problem is not enough things to shoot. The story is awful. The voice acting is worse. Encounter design is boring at best, made worse by the flimsy story--it makes every samey encounter feel even samier. Guns have hilariously little variation visually compared to Borderlands, especially Borderlands 2. Guns do not feel any different when you pick them up, unlike Borderlands where you grab a gun, fire a few rounds and determine if you like it--that's fucking MAGIC by the way. Classes are incredibly samey. The level 20 cap, which I was so excited about (no more leveling up to play with friends! Woo!) just transfers the grind from XP (constant linear progress) to loot (RNG based "oh shit not again" design). World design is pretty but sterile with hilariously lazy copy-paste caves littering every world. The Skyboxes are pretty but the fake backdrops that kill you if you wander too far are almost worse than invisible walls.

Then there's this "shared world" social bullshit they keep dragging out. It adds NOTHING. Not a single goddamn thing. It forces always online to a game that otherwise plays exactly like Borderlands with optional PVP, except it has less matchmaking than Borderlands. "Blue" players just wander around, doing their thing, soon enough your paths diverge and never cross again. Scream into your mic all you want, they can year you. Flail your limited set of emotes at them, it's about your only chance of interacting with these useless randoms. Matchmaking would be better than this farce. Never once have I bothered to try and add someone to my incredibly limited 3 person fireteam this way, nor has anyone attempted to add me to theirs. All the Shared World added to me was a disconnect that erased my progress and led to me erasing the game and throwing my Ghost edition back in the box.

Destiny is not a fantastic game lacking content. It is an average at best game and nailing more colors of dudes to shoot on at the end isn't going to change that. The apple's core is rotten, it will grow nothing of value in it's present state. And, as previously stated, since Destiny 2 is slated for 2016 apparently, it's extremely unlikely core gameplay (and story...and EVERYTHING) changes are going to make it. Destiny 1 will get the planned content packs while the core festers and rots. And when Destiny 2 rolls around, I'll just remember Bungie couldn't even give enough of a shit to make Dinklage read his goddamn lines properly. They do not give a fuck about my experience, so I do not give a fuck about their product.

I have not played them (I deleted the game yesterday), but what I've heard of the PVP is dreadful and tacked on, and Raids sound like an exercise in frustration, but hell, neither of those things are my bag anyway, I don't even care how bad they fucked those up.
 

David___

Banned
Is Destiny 2 going to be a completely stand-alone product, or will it somehow add more to expand the existing world - like an MMO would? Does it start you over from scratch or take the journey from 20th level to 40th?

Is this known or hinted about at all? Because if its is MMO-ish, changes to mechanics could benefit Destiny 1 and 2 and whatever else comes down the line.

Bungie, at the very least, has said that people who start on D2 can import their character back to the first game. IMO its a safe assumption for you to carry over your character from D1 to D2.

Guns have hilariously little variation visually compared to Borderlands, especially Borderlands 2.

nvm. Misunderstood quote.
 

Kinyou

Member
Is Destiny 2 going to be a completely stand-alone product, or will it somehow add more to expand the existing world - like an MMO would? Does it start you over from scratch or take the journey from 20th level to 40th?

Is this known or hinted about at all? Because if its is MMO-ish, changes to mechanics could benefit Destiny 1 and 2 and whatever else comes down the line.
That's an interesting idea. Though I think the contract did describe them as individual games. That would make me think it's standalone
 
Let me put it this way: I think review scores are useless, but I think they're even more useless for a game like this, especially after such a short time period.

100%. It is why I prefer Kotaku's review system. After all one of the main perceived purposes of a review in the first place is to assess whether or not I should be buying the game.
 

FyreWulff

Member
You didn't reach your targets, don't get your bonus. Makes perfect sense to me. That's your own fault, completely controllable by your own actions, not an act of God or some unforeseeable event. I don't feel bad for them because they are professionals and the game sold well so they will have their jobs and an opportunity to do better next time.

Too much power in the hands of one company who

- Doesn't publish their formula for calculating MC scores
- Has fully admitted they will assign their own metascore to a review 'by feel', essentially reviewing a review.
- Converts unscored reviews to scored reviews by sites that refuse to use the 1 out of 10 system, and once again uses arbitrary "by feel" to assign those scores.
- Is trying to fit subjective review into an objective scale


Putting Metacritic score requirements in contracts is hurting the industry, not helping it. Developers should be paid based off how their game performs. MC requirements are just poison pills so publishers can get away with paying less for games that sell well.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Is Destiny 2 going to be a completely stand-alone product, or will it somehow add more to expand the existing world - like an MMO would? Does it start you over from scratch or take the journey from 20th level to 40th?

Is this known or hinted about at all? Because if its is MMO-ish, changes to mechanics could benefit Destiny 1 and 2 and whatever else comes down the line.

Your character will continue forward for the entire run of Destiny. And I think it'd be safe to assume there would be evolved/new mechanics in later Destinys
 
That's .5% of 500 million aka chump couch seat change.
I can't for the life of me believe this figure. Feels like hype unless someone has receipts. Even with marketing... The game is so content poor that it's hard to come up with inefficiencies that would bring the total to 500 million.
 

David___

Banned
I can't for the life of me believe this figure. Feels like hype unless someone has receipts. Even with marketing... The game is so content poor that it's hard to come up with inefficiencies that would bring the total to 500 million.

$500 million for the franchise.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Reviews are product evaluation, and as such should be out when people are most likely to buy the game, which is during the initial days of release. A review is substantially less useful to the vast majority of its audience if it comes out a week late. Catering to a developer's roll out plans is undermining the integrity of that review.
How is a badly informed review helpful in situations like that?
 
"Let's take a trip back to 2012, when Activision was embroiled in a nasty legal battle with Call of Duty creators Vince Zampella and Jason West. As part of that court case, Activision had to share details of its original contract with Bungie for Destiny, which was then scheduled for release in 2013. Buried in the public documents is this little nugget:"


full article via Kotaku:
http://kotaku.com/destiny-review-sc...m_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

It should be noted that the contract is from 2010, so it could have changed.

$2.5mm split among like 500 employees isn't that much anyhow.
 
$2.5mm split among like 500 employees isn't that much anyhow.

I doubt they'd all get the exact portion, but $5000 is a family vacation. Even if they got half, $2500 is a trip to Europe (or somewhere else).

I think it's BS that it's based on Metacritic, and while I don't think the game is a 9/10, it's a shame that the devs missed out on this.
 
They didn't earn it, so I'm cool with this. There are a lot of really head scratching flaws or design decisions with this game. I was shocked the media had the balls to rate this game in the 70s and stick it to Activision and Bungie, but I'm happy they did review honestly vs the hype machine.
 

Takuan

Member
Based on the games sales, I doubt they're sweating.

I like the game. It's not a 90, for sure, but I think publishing reviews before event content even went live is really questionable.
 

Dezben

Banned
No one who matters in the finacial sense cares about video game reviews. Destiny was already the most pre-ordered game of all time.
 
The idea that Destiny shouldn't be reviewed because of "content" is ridiculous. Its not just content there's a myriad of other issues and I don't expect then to be fixed at all.
 
Sure doesn't sound like Bungie deserves it

Yeah, fuck them right? Fuck each and every one of the men and women that worked on it. Obviously it doesn't have any redeeming value and since there's so many threads filled with Destiny bashing, they can't possibly deserve a bonus.

I've looked at streams all day and I can confirm that it is impossible to have fun with Destiny.
 
You didn't reach your targets, don't get your bonus. Makes perfect sense to me.

True.

But Metacritic targets aren't financial targets, and thus don't really justify financial incentives (except to the extent that they actually influence profits, which is dubious at best since we see plenty of 95+ games sell way below targets).
 

BPoole

Member
Yeah, fuck them right? Fuck each and every one of the men and women that worked on it. Obviously it doesn't have any redeeming value and since there's so many threads filled with Destiny bashing, they can't possibly deserve a bonus.

I've looked at streams all day and I can confirm that it is impossible to have fun with Destiny.
The game over promised and under delivered. All the employees likely knew about this verse in their agreement with Activision. Should they they get the reward anyway?

This is not even a case like the Fallout: New Vegas where there were 1 point shy of the score they needed to get a bonus. Destiny doesn't even have an 80% averag and their goal was 90
 

jrDev

Member
Well...there is no better time to wait on a fire sale, there are $500 million worth of those discs sitting on shelves, most of which won't sell :-/

They should add a third person option...
 
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