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Logitech responds about PS4 wheel support - Sony demands advanced security

metareferential

metareferential

Member
No wheel, no racing games.

Sony and Logitech are just bouncing the issue to one another.

Fanatec said it's Sony that has to make it happen. So make it happen, Sony.
 
K

Kilrathi

Member
Looks like those with fanatec wheels will be out of luck as well. Buying another wheel, flight stick, arcade stick when they cost around 150+ when they use the usb standards.
 
N

NateGrigs

Member
I'm disappointed that I can't use my g27 on my ps4.......but the fact that we still haven't gotten a straight answer is what really pisses me off. Shouldn't they have known about this before the console launched?
 
A

androvsky

Member
NateGrigs said:
I'm disappointed that I can't use my g27 on my ps4.......but the fact that we still haven't gotten a straight answer is what really pisses me off. Shouldn't they have known about this before the console launched?
Click to expand...
Since you have both, have you tried using the G27 in War Thunder on the PS4? Might help highlight the issues involved.
 
O

onQ123

Member
DriveClub is going to use the motion controls in the DS4 to drive maybe someone will release a cheap steering wheel shell to place the controller in with a pedal connection.

1194836




I'll let myself out lol.
 
David Ricardo

David Ricardo

Member
NateGrigs said:
I'm disappointed that I can't use my g27 on my ps4.......but the fact that we still haven't gotten a straight answer is what really pisses me off. Shouldn't they have known about this before the console launched?
Click to expand...
What scares me is if Sony has decided to go silent about this, the reason could very well be because they have nothing good to say...

I am not buying any new wheels. If my G27 isn't PS4 compatible, I won't buy a new wheel. Specially not those superexpensive new ones. If I have to spend 400€ to play racing games, I will buy a PC capable of playing Iracing, Project cars, etcetera with my G27.
 
N

norealmx

Banned
How long before Sony announces a "fully optimized and licensed Advance Controller Wheel for the PS4, by Logitech"? The kind you can't connect anywhere else and that need to be replaced if it broke.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
metareferential said:
Maybe they could release an official usb adapter. Is it that far-fetched technically?

Free money, Sony.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that introduce all the security problems all over again though? I dont' even understand why the USB support is possible for devs, unless they just don't want USB at the home/etc screens. But even that doesn't make sense, because game-specific exploits were huge for Wii and PSP.
 
N

NateGrigs

Member
androvsky said:
Since you have both, have you tried using the G27 in War Thunder on the PS4? Might help highlight the issues involved.
Click to expand...

I don't have War Thunder but I'll download and check it out after work.

I'm aware that the G27 came out well before the ps4, but wouldn't evolution know about this restriction and know that wheels wouldn't be compatible? Surely they've been looking into it
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
NateGrigs said:
I don't have War Thunder but I'll download and check it out after work.

I'm aware that the G27 came out well before the ps4, but wouldn't evolution know about this restriction and know that wheels wouldn't be compatible? Surely they've been looking into it
Click to expand...

I think Evolution has addressed it, but I don't recall what they said.
 
W

whome0

Member
David Ricardo said:
What scares me is if Sony has decided to go silent about this, the reason could very well be because they have nothing good to say...
I will buy a PC capable of playing Iracing, Project cars, etcetera with my G27.
Click to expand...
That's my feeling I guess nextgen consoles gave up already on a racing games genre. Its PC providing proper racing game experience now on. Valve promised bring racing wheel support to a Steam in-house streaming so it may provide me a living room racing from the basement PC rig. Why not then put more game investments to PC titles if I may say.

Sure Sony could provide exceptions how they authenticate fully capable USB controllers, just flip the switch in a firmware and let certain legacy wheels work without this magical security chip.

Logitech DFGT user.
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
I tweeted at Shu, Driveclub, and Rushy. I've tried this in the past without any response so I doubt I'll get anything this time...but if I do I'll post it here.
 
H

Hasney

Member
V

Vitacat

Member
This security issue with PS4 controls is really annoying.

I have a really nice PS360+ based arcade cabinet, and it completely sucks that I can't use it with my PS4 (yet). Hopefully every fighting game dev gets a clue and supports PS3 arcade sticks on their PS4 versions since the PS4 OS won't do it. But even that is not a great solution because there are many other games that would be fun with an arcade stick but won't work.

And yeah, also sucks about driving wheels.
 
L

Leb

Member
Skilletor said:
Isn't this the opposite of what Mike Z and the Skullgirls crew have said?

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/looking-for-dualshock-3-driver-help-for-ps4.4164/
Click to expand...

Well, I've written a handful of device drivers so I'll hazard a guess. The above implementation would be a user space driver implemented via libusb. This would undoubtedly work fine for something like a DS3. However, I'd assume that peripherals like high-end wheels require a more performant solution where a kernel space driver would be more appropriate and it looks like such an implementation comes with additional security constraints.
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
whome0 said:
That's my feeling I guess nextgen consoles gave up already on a racing games genre. Its PC providing proper racing game experience now on. Valve promised bring racing wheel support to a Steam in-house streaming so it may provide me a living room racing from the basement PC rig. Why not then put more game investments to PC titles if I may say.

Sure Sony could provide exceptions how they authenticate fully capable USB controllers, just flip the switch in a firmware and let certain legacy wheels work without this magical security chip.

Logitech DFGT user.
Click to expand...

Why would they? How would it make them more money?
 
V

Vitacat

Member
DieH@rd said:
You ARE aware that PS3's security was famously broken with USB dongle that contained modchip? It enabled console to start loading pirated games.
Click to expand...

Is there no way to allow PS3 controls to work on PS4 without opening it to piracy? I just wanna use my arcade sticks.
 
Z

Zeth

Member
DieH@rd said:
You ARE aware that PS3's security was famously broken with USB dongle that contained modchip? It enabled console to start loading pirated games.
Click to expand...

Oh that's right. I just thought i sounded weird after hearing unofficial reports that stuff would be supported early on, and now finding out it's not so.
 
H

Hasney

Member
DieH@rd said:
You ARE aware that PS3's security was famously broken with USB dongle that contained modchip? It enabled console to start loading pirated games.
Click to expand...

Because the original managed to clone a service mode USB double. I don't think know that had anything to do with polling rates unless the PS4 version of the dongle polls like fuck and the chip helps keep it secure. Would be an odd design if so.

Vitacat said:
Is there no way to allow PS3 controls to work on PS4 without opening it to piracy? I just wanna use my arcade sticks.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it shouldn't be an issue on arcade sticks, since the poll rate is that of a normal controller. It would have to be supported per game though as the developers would have to include a driver.
 
T

TyrantII

Member
Tempy said:
Is this a kind of chip to prove that the peripheral is officially licensed for use with a PS4? To prevent manufacturers making unlicensed peripherals?
Click to expand...

It works as that, but my guess is its also to keel rapid fire and macro input controllers out of the system.

Not all bad, it sucks they couldn't work towards a better solution.
 
C

C.Dark.DN

Banned
I can ask somewhere else if needed, but how do the thrustmasters compare to g27 anyway?

I never had a racing wheel and want something realistic.
 
M

MaDKaT

Member
Not going to lie, this type of news is really killing any interest I have in DriveClub or any other racing game on the PS4 and that includes my long time favorite series, Gran Turismo. I've made a sizable investment into a rig and if the PS4 isn't going to support it like the PS3, I will just ignore PS4 racers and scratch that itch on PC.
 
G

gutterboy44

Member
Fuck this bullshit. Once again, paying customers get shit on because a few people want to hack their consoles. Brilliant work Sony. Guess what, PS4 will still eventually get hacked, only difference is you will have lost a lot of customers along the way. GT7 is going to be a shit show if it is still only a handful of Thrustmaster wheels supported at launch.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Kysen said:
Isn't this the same route MS took with the 360, verification chip? So in effect my g27 will be useless on ps4 unless some guy in China releases a clone dongle that gets around this limitation.
Click to expand...

Yup, it's a licensing chip.

It's not so much competition as just matching either other parity item for shitty parity item.
 
Teletraan1

Teletraan1

Banned
That is unfortunate but I understand they need to bolster security. All these extra peripherals are thunderdome which really sucks. I couldn't even give my PS3 rockband crap to my sister because they had 360.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Hasney said:
It actually doesn't. Some wheels have a much higher polling rate for greater sensititivity than joypads do.

That said, that list of Project CARS wheels up there makes it suspect since I doubt those wheels have much lower polling rates... Unless they have this fabled chip..
Click to expand...

Leb said:
Well, I've written a handful of device drivers so I'll hazard a guess. The above implementation would be a user space driver implemented via libusb. This would undoubtedly work fine for something like a DS3. However, I'd assume that peripherals like high-end wheels require a more performant solution where a kernel space driver would be more appropriate and it looks like such an implementation comes with additional security constraints.
Click to expand...

I defer to your, obviously, superior knowledge on the subject. It sounded similar since I'm ignorant on how such things work. :)

Regardless, I hope a solution can be found for all parties.
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
This is bullshit. If this is the case then Sony should release a standalone dongle with the chip inside.

And before people cry "it would get reverse engineered" So will a PS4 pad, in time.
 
C

CTLance

Member
Zeth said:
"security"
Click to expand...
Yeah. That's a pretty good roll on the ol' diplomatic results table.

It's a friggen lockout chip. Nothing more, nothing less. We've had them since forever, it's a damn shame Sony decided to require them now, but since this really only affects a tiny slice of their userbase, and one that will (loudly complain and) buy supported wheels anyway...

Oh well. It was a nice dream, I guess.
 
V

vypek

Member
Wow. Clicked into this thread to find out whats going on and see if the information was interesting. People are really losing their shit. I didn't realize this was such a big deal (I'm not really into racing games).

To be sure, I'm understanding this: PS4 is lacking a special chip that Logitech devices (which are a big deal in terms of racing wheel) need so they are compatible, right?
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
tempest3 said:
Wow. Clicked into this thread to find out whats going on and see if the information was interesting. People are really losing their shit. I didn't realize this was such a big deal (I'm not really into racing games).

To be sure, I'm understanding this: PS4 is lacking a special chip that Logitech devices (which are a big deal in terms of racing wheel) need so they are compatible, right?
Click to expand...

No. The PS4 checks for a chip to confirm the peripheral is licensed. If it doesn't get an authorization check pass, it disables the device after 8 minutes.

You wouldn't be able to bypass this since the chip would have Sony copyrighted code on it.

360 controllers also had to have a licensing chip to work.

This 100% has fuck all to do with security. It's licensing.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
tempest3 said:
Wow. Clicked into this thread to find out whats going on and see if the information was interesting. People are really losing their shit. I didn't realize this was such a big deal (I'm not really into racing games).

To be sure, I'm understanding this: PS4 is lacking a special chip that Logitech devices (which are a big deal in terms of racing wheel) need so they are compatible, right?
Click to expand...

It's not just racing sticks. It means people who care about their expensive fightsticks when fighters start hitting PS4 are SOL as well.
 
H

hesido

Member
This is a very important revelation... Maybe a "secure" USB pass through dongle by none other than Sony could fix it. Hackers would probably have a field day with that dongle tho, as they could connect to anything and debug the guts of such a thing.

Oh Sony, btw, having a USB dongle to turn PS3's into test units was a bad idea. That was your Achilles heel. And now we can't have nice things.
 
R

Respawn

Banned
BWJinxing said:
Its likely just a way to get money out of third party peripherals.

But with the USB exploit on PS3, it kinda makes me wonder if there is some sort of correlation.

Hi Polling devices need chips, thats interesting if true.
Click to expand...
You would be correct about exploits. All it takes is one door to open.
 
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