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[Shanks D Zoro]

You realize Messi has failed to do that for exactly the entirety of the Qualifiers and that's why Argentina evento got to this point, right?

Just checking.

I wish some people knew why what they were talking about before they posted,

Argentina picked up seven points in the eight games that Messi didn't play in, but 21 points in the ten games that he did play in.

So, Argentina didn't struggle because Messi failed to score, hut simply because he wasn't in the team for nearly half the games.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Fanboys argue over who is the greatest, legends already agree.


*. Pelé : "Totti is the best player in the world. He has just been a little unlucky in the past."
*Diego Maradona : "Totti is the world's number one." "He is a great player and he will keep on showing that. He representsItalian soccer and the Italian fans will have fun with him."
*. Michel Platini : "Totti is an artist of football, atrue Number 10, just like I was." "If I was playing today I'd be like Totti, who's become an out-and-out striker. There aren'tany Number 10s in the old playmaker role anyway."
*. Franz Beckenbauer : "There are many star players in Italy, but the only one I would bring to Bayern Munich would be Totti. I know him well and he deserves to win the Ballon d'Or ."
*. Roberto Baggio : "I want to compliment Francesco Totti, scoring 206 goals is a greatachievement. It does not matter that he has beat me as he is a great player." "He fought so hard and is now reaping the rewards. He always picked himself back up with pride and courage. Totti set an example with his achievements and his passion for this sport, proving you can push beyond your limits. He has the quality and ability to keep going and catch the nextplayers in the all-time scorers’ charts. He is one of the last few real Number 10s and while he has the strength, he should keep playing."
*. Jose Mourinho : "You know more than me what Totti means for Roma, for the Serie A, and for his team-mates. I want him to play because he's the best player in the Italian championship in terms of spectacle and quality of play."
*. Alex Ferguson : "Of course I know Totti is the fantastic player." "Totti is the symbol of Roma, he’d never want to leave the club just like Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes at Manchester United. He needs to be kept at a certain level for Roma, just as I do at United." "Totti is the architect of everything they (Roma) do and we have to decide how best to deal with him. The issueis what we do with our centre-backs and whether we push one on to Totti but we can't let him control the game. It's a tricky one but we have to resolve it as best we can."
*. Arsene Wenger : "Totti is a top, top class player. He is typical of the Roman game and I’m sure he will never move outside of Roma. He used to play in behind the strikersand then one day they had no central striker so they played him up front and wongame after game. He suddenly became the topscorer in Italy as a central striker. That means this guy has absolutely everything. He has a fantastic protection of the ball, he has a quick turn and then he has a very good pass in the final third of the pitch. He can be deadly with every single pass. He willcertainly be the most dangerous provider inthe final third for them in this game. He is not the only player who can be dangerous but he can open the defence with any pass at any moment of the day if you give him the freedom."
*. Carlo Ancelotti : "Totti is a great player who gave so much for Roma and still can give. He is the player who managed the best, especially from the physical point of view, he can remain a very important player to the team." "Francesco remains the undisputed symbol of Roma."
*. Alessandro Del Piero : "Above all on the eve of a match like this one, when on the other side, wearing a captain band on his arm, there’s a player like Francesco Totti. If we put together our goals scored, it's over 500.If we sum up the years of career, wearing the same shirt – it comes up to 35. We won the World Cup together and those memories unite us forever" . "We have a great relationship with plenty of admirationon both sides even if we don't call each other up. Francesco is great."
*. Pep Guardiola : "Totti is a fantastic player." "I am proud to play in a team with a player like him who is the symbol of Roma"
* Florentino Pérez : "I spent a lot of money in my life to build a powerful team like Real Madrid, but my desire, I always liked the captain of Roma, Francesco Totti. Unfortunately, it was impossible to reach him because Totti always want to remain with his club and his city." "It is very difficult for players like him to leave their clubs."
*. Eusebio Di Francesco : "Totti has great football intelligence, experience and seems to have four eyes to spot all potential passes." "Francesco has always been the added value for Roma. I am proud to still have an extraordinary rapport with himand every Christmas we exchange gifts."
*. Laurent Blanc : "Totti is more than a simple player for Roma. He is outstanding, the team's real standard bearer." "With Totti on the field, he brings something special to Roma. He is not just a great player, but also their Colosseum."

So you're serious? Legitimately one of THE dumbest statements I've seen. Lots of headscratchers already in this topic, Ronaldinho top 3 and now Totti is apparently the GOAT

 

[Ferulci]

Lots of salt to go along with crows to eat right here.

 

[Raptor]

The Ronaldo was better than both of them combined.

Damn right!!

 

[Eylos]

Both are goat

 

[Frustrated_me]

Fanboys argue over who is the greatest, legends already agree.


*. Pelé : "Totti is the best player in the world. He has just been a little unlucky in the past."
*Diego Maradona : "Totti is the world's number one." "He is a great player and he will keep on showing that. He representsItalian soccer and the Italian fans will have fun with him."
*. Michel Platini : "Totti is an artist of football, atrue Number 10, just like I was." "If I was playing today I'd be like Totti, who's become an out-and-out striker. There aren'tany Number 10s in the old playmaker role anyway."
*. Franz Beckenbauer : "There are many star players in Italy, but the only one I would bring to Bayern Munich would be Totti. I know him well and he deserves to win the Ballon d'Or ."
*. Roberto Baggio : "I want to compliment Francesco Totti, scoring 206 goals is a greatachievement. It does not matter that he has beat me as he is a great player." "He fought so hard and is now reaping the rewards. He always picked himself back up with pride and courage. Totti set an example with his achievements and his passion for this sport, proving you can push beyond your limits. He has the quality and ability to keep going and catch the nextplayers in the all-time scorers’ charts. He is one of the last few real Number 10s and while he has the strength, he should keep playing."
*. Jose Mourinho : "You know more than me what Totti means for Roma, for the Serie A, and for his team-mates. I want him to play because he's the best player in the Italian championship in terms of spectacle and quality of play."
*. Alex Ferguson : "Of course I know Totti is the fantastic player." "Totti is the symbol of Roma, he’d never want to leave the club just like Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes at Manchester United. He needs to be kept at a certain level for Roma, just as I do at United." "Totti is the architect of everything they (Roma) do and we have to decide how best to deal with him. The issueis what we do with our centre-backs and whether we push one on to Totti but we can't let him control the game. It's a tricky one but we have to resolve it as best we can."
*. Arsene Wenger : "Totti is a top, top class player. He is typical of the Roman game and I’m sure he will never move outside of Roma. He used to play in behind the strikersand then one day they had no central striker so they played him up front and wongame after game. He suddenly became the topscorer in Italy as a central striker. That means this guy has absolutely everything. He has a fantastic protection of the ball, he has a quick turn and then he has a very good pass in the final third of the pitch. He can be deadly with every single pass. He willcertainly be the most dangerous provider inthe final third for them in this game. He is not the only player who can be dangerous but he can open the defence with any pass at any moment of the day if you give him the freedom."
*. Carlo Ancelotti : "Totti is a great player who gave so much for Roma and still can give. He is the player who managed the best, especially from the physical point of view, he can remain a very important player to the team." "Francesco remains the undisputed symbol of Roma."
*. Alessandro Del Piero : "Above all on the eve of a match like this one, when on the other side, wearing a captain band on his arm, there’s a player like Francesco Totti. If we put together our goals scored, it's over 500.If we sum up the years of career, wearing the same shirt – it comes up to 35. We won the World Cup together and those memories unite us forever" . "We have a great relationship with plenty of admirationon both sides even if we don't call each other up. Francesco is great."
*. Pep Guardiola : "Totti is a fantastic player." "I am proud to play in a team with a player like him who is the symbol of Roma"
* Florentino Pérez : "I spent a lot of money in my life to build a powerful team like Real Madrid, but my desire, I always liked the captain of Roma, Francesco Totti. Unfortunately, it was impossible to reach him because Totti always want to remain with his club and his city." "It is very difficult for players like him to leave their clubs."
*. Eusebio Di Francesco : "Totti has great football intelligence, experience and seems to have four eyes to spot all potential passes." "Francesco has always been the added value for Roma. I am proud to still have an extraordinary rapport with himand every Christmas we exchange gifts."
*. Laurent Blanc : "Totti is more than a simple player for Roma. He is outstanding, the team's real standard bearer." "With Totti on the field, he brings something special to Roma. He is not just a great player, but also their Colosseum."

The world will remember Totti for the selfie celebration and probably forget about him in 2-3 years time.

 

[Randam]

this is the GOAT:

even a goatgreat manager.

 

[McMoneyman]

Give us an Argentina v Portugal game at the World Cup. I'm sure the internet probably won't survive that.

 

[Oveja Negra]

GOAT? No way, that discussion only involves Maradona & Pele.

In this generation? yeah, I agree, Messi is the best, above CR7, not by much, but for sure above him.

I agree with those who said Ronaldinho in his peak was better than both Messi & CR7, but as everyone knows, he was more interested in partying hard than playing football so he fucked himself in that regard.

Having said that, what Messi did yesterday deserves an applause, if you asked anyone here in South America, including argentinians, a high % was expecting a disaster (for Argentina). So while it's true the current Ecuador team is shit, yesterday was a glorious day for Messi.

To be considered the GOAT, he needs to win something with his NT, I mean a Copa América or a World Cup, that's the true test of greatness, and so far Messi has failed hard at that.

We'll see if he can change that, Russia 2018 is his last chance, I think. The problem for him is right now, both Brasil & Germany are unstoppable.

 

[Aizo]

Messi makes some pretty great threads about comics every month. Nice that you made a thread for him.

 

[Shanks D Zoro]

So you're serious? Legitimately one of THE dumbest statements I've seen. Lots of headscratchers already in this topic, Ronaldinho top 3 and now Totti is apparently the GOAT

It is pretty obvious to anyone who actually watches a game of football that Totti is on the highest level. People mistake trophies and goals as an indication of a how good a player is. However, when you actually watch and study a game of football then you realise who are the actual difference makers.

It is why Messi is in the debate for the heir to Totti, while Ronaldo would have only been the fifth best player during peak Barca.

 

[Shanks D Zoro]

The world will remember Totti for the selfie celebration and probably forget about him in 2-3 years time.

I will take that, better than being forgotten by your own fans because you didn't score for a few games.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

It is pretty obvious to anyone who actually watches a game of football that Totti is on the highest level. People mistake trophies and goals as an indication of a how good a player is. However, when you actually watch and study a game of football then you realise who are the actual difference makers.

It is why Messi is in the debate for the heir to Totti, while Ronaldo would have only been the fifth best player during peak Barca.

Nobody considers Messi the heir to Totti you doofus, except for yourself. He was a world class player that was great in his time, plenty of players better than him including Italians (Buffon is already greater than him and he's still playing). Now run along and find some other quotes of greats being impressed with a world class player than you can find for the top 150 footballers that played the game.

GOAT? No way, that discussion only involves Maradona & Pele.

In this generation? yeah, I agree, Messi is the best, above CR7, not by much, but for sure above him.

I agree with those who said Ronaldinho in his peak was better than both Messi & CR7, but as everyone knows, he was more interested in partying hard than playing football so he fucked himself in that regard.

Having said that, what Messi did yesterday deserves an applause, if you asked anyone here in South America, including argentinians, a high % was expecting a disaster (for Argentina). So while it's true the current Ecuador team is shit, yesterday was a glorious day for Messi.

To be considered the GOAT, he needs to win something with his NT, I mean a Copa América or a World Cup, that's the true test of greatness, and so far Messi has failed hard at that.

We'll see if he can change that, Russia 2018 is his last chance, I think. The problem for him is right now, both Brasil & Germany are unstoppable.

It's not for sure at all. It's a toss up between either or, and you can make arguments for either or. Messi completely bottling it at just about every Copa/WC final or the latter stages of the WC doesn't help his case because he beats up a shitty Ecuador team with a plethora of world class, attacking talent.

 

[Dinokill]

How many goals has Messi scored against Brazil in official matches?

 

[Oveja Negra]

It's not for sure at all. It's a toss up between either or, and you can make arguments for either or. Messi completely bottling it at just about every Copa/WC final or the latter stages of the WC doesn't help his case because he beats up a shitty Ecuador team with a plethora of world class, attacking talent.

Can you please, clarify what part of my post are you referring to?

 

[marc^o^]

this is the GOAT:



even a goatgreat manager.

Zidane can’t compare with all greats in terms of stats, but has there ever been a player so magical to watch? For 10 years this man made me jump on my couch.

 

[Cappa]

Ronaldinho never performed in a match in which we were against the ropes like Messi. There isn't a single great comeback recorded for Ronaldinho either for Barcelona or Brazil. It was always his teammates, Eto'o in Barca and Adriano/Rivalso in Brazil that bailed him out.

OK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZgaVxIxUXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gdw9aoeQzQ

 

[Firemind]

To be considered the GOAT, he needs to win something with his NT, I mean a Copa América or a World Cup, that's the true test of greatness, and so far Messi has failed hard at that.

Failed so hard that Messi made more goals than the rest of the team combined in 2014. They gambled in the final to take it to penalties and they lost.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Can you please, clarify what part of my post are you referring to?

In this generation? yeah, I agree, Messi is the best, above CR7, not by much, but for sure above him.

.

Failed so hard that Messi made more goals than the rest of the team combined in 2014. They gambled in the final to take it to penalties and they lost.

In a system that revolves over him. Xavi just said he threw a temper tantrum whenever Barca passed the ball around a ton and he didn't get a touch in. Imagine how he is with Argentina that's a far worse team where he has more cache.

 

[Shanks D Zoro]

Nobody considers Messi the heir to Totti you doofus, except for yourself. He was a world class player that was great in his time, plenty of players better than him including Italians (Buffon is already greater than him and he's still playing). Now run along and find some other quotes of greats being impressed with a world class player than you can find for the top 150 footballers that played the game.

Why have the likes of Ronaldo and Messi thrived this past decade?

It is because Totti changed the way people viewed attacking players. Managers in the past had experimented with false/strikerless formations, but it was only when Totti showed what could be done(the guy became a 'striker' at age 30 and won the golden boot, while many thought he would have to retire a year earlier because of an injury) that the likes of Pep and Fergie decided to transform Messi and Ronaldo into that type of player. Simply put, Totti is responsible for one of the most important changes in the game.

 

[Perfect Blue]

Why have the likes of Ronaldo and Messi thrived this past decade?

It is because Totti changed the way people viewed attacking players. Managers in the past had experimented with false/strikerless formations, but it was only when Totti showed what could be done(the guy became a 'striker' at age 30 and won the golden boot, while many thought he would have to retire a year earlier because of an injury) that the likes of Pep and Fergie decided to transform Messi and Ronaldo into that type of player. Simply put, Totti is responsible for one of the most important changes in the game.

Damn, I'm convinced.

 

[clemenx]

So the bar for declaring Messi the goat was beating the almighty Ecuador? Impressive.

 

[EBreda]

I wish some people knew why what they were talking about before they posted,

Argentina picked up seven points in the eight games that Messi didn't play in, but 21 points in the ten games that he did play in.

So, Argentina didn't struggle because Messi failed to score, hut simply because he wasn't in the team for nearly half the games.

Couldn't even beat Peru last round, home, with Messi.
In fact, couldn't beat Venezuela home again, with Messi, the round before.
Got trashed by Brazil (with Messi).

I'm not interested in all this senseless Messi x CRonaldo discussion. I don't even take sides, still undecided.

I'm just pointing out that Messi has failed to do for the entirety of the Qualifiers what he did yesterday. I mean, yeah, he scored a hat trick against the 8th team in a 10 team table.

Talk about a lack of consistency...

 

[Cappa]

Why have the likes of Ronaldo and Messi thrived this past decade?

It is because Totti changed the way people viewed attacking players. Managers in the past had experimented with false/strikerless formations, but it was only when Totti showed what could be done(the guy became a 'striker' at age 30 and won the golden boot, while many thought he would have to retire a year earlier because of an injury) that the likes of Pep and Fergie decided to transform Messi and Ronaldo into that type of player. Simply put, Totti is responsible for one of the most important changes in the game.

So Pep magically transformed Messi and Fergie Ronaldo exactly the same season Totti wins the gold boot so it´s all thanks to Totti?

Whut? Ronaldo and Messi already existed, and Ronaldo won the golden boot the year after Totti. LOL

 

[godhandiscen]

OK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZgaVxIxUXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gdw9aoeQzQ

Where is the comeback, the pressure? In matches in which we needed him to answer, like the Champions league final versus Arsenal, he was an expectator. Messi has scored or made assists in all Champions League finals. He scored the comeback goal in the World Cup of Clubs final too against Independiente. Ronaldinho lost that final with Barcelina for example.

Don't get me wrong, Ronaldinho is a level above many stars, but the comparison against Messi is impossible.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Ronaldinho never performed in a match in which we were against the ropes like Messi. There isn’t a single great comeback recorded for Ronaldinho either for Barcelona or Brazil. It was always his teammates, Eto’o in Barca and Adriano/Rivalso in Brazil that bailed him out.

It's because he always controlled the game in the beginning. The only outlier being WC 2006 where he was underwhelming throughout but tactics can be argued for that

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Why have the likes of Ronaldo and Messi thrived this past decade?

It is because Totti changed the way people viewed attacking players. Managers in the past had experimented with false/strikerless formations, but it was only when Totti showed what could be done(the guy became a 'striker' at age 30 and won the golden boot, while many thought he would have to retire a year earlier because of an injury) that the likes of Pep and Fergie decided to transform Messi and Ronaldo into that type of player. Simply put, Totti is responsible for one of the most important changes in the game.

Ronaldo doesn't play the role Totti or Messi played, so I have no idea why you're lumping him together with them. There's also nothing noting that Messi wouldn't have worked without Totti showing him the way, but you want people to give him credit that's totally respectable. Being the first to do something successfully doesn't make him in the all timer list, esp since Messi does it far better than Totti could ever dream of doing it (except for the NT).

But this is not going to turn into a huge debate because your original premise of Totti being the goat is incredibly fucking stupid and shouldn't be taken seriously.

So Pep magically transformed Messi and Fergie Ronaldo exactly the same season Totti wins the gold boot so it´s all thanks to Totti?

Whut? Ronaldo and Messi already existed, and Ronaldo won the golden boot the year after Totti. LOL

He's legit one of the worst and delusional fans I've ever seen lol.. of all players, he picks Totti as the goat. Totti.

 

[ty_hot]

Why have the likes of Ronaldo and Messi thrived this past decade?

It is because Totti changed the way people viewed attacking players. Managers in the past had experimented with false/strikerless formations, but it was only when Totti showed what could be done(the guy became a 'striker' at age 30 and won the golden boot, while many thought he would have to retire a year earlier because of an injury) that the likes of Pep and Fergie decided to transform Messi and Ronaldo into that type of player. Simply put, Totti is responsible for one of the most important changes in the game.

Even if what you are saying makes any sense, being the first at something doesnt make you the best at it. I can see the Messi/Totti comparison, but CR and Totti? Different positions.

And if I am not mistaken, Guardiola change Messi's positioning the day before a Real Madri match, he moved him from the wing to the center, that made Madrid's defense completely lost. It was the 5x0 match. Is there any reason to believe that this is thanks to Totti? Really? lol Also, Messi's been playing for 10 years in this same position and nobody can stop him. Is it thanks to Totti as well? lol

 

[Oveja Negra]

Failed so hard that Messi made more goals than the rest of the team combined in 2014. They gambled in the final to take it to penalties and they lost.

I mean, he failed to help to win those finals. You just can't call him the GOAT and "forgive" him for not making the difference in a final, because if he is the GOAT, that's exactly what everyone expects from him.

In fact, during the Copa América in Chile, he was practically erased from the field by chilean players. That's a perfect example of him not being able to demonstrate he is the GOAT.

.

Ahh. Well, it's just my opinion, not based in stats or anything. I just enjoy watching Messi much more than CR7, when I compare them both, again in my opinion, Messi is more skilled than CR7.

Of course, CR7 is still amazing, and as I said, it's not like Messi makes CR7 to look bad, I just think he is a tad better, overall.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Yeah, C.Ronaldo is a different player altogether, mostly because of his stint in the premier league

 

[bud]

messi is the greatest footballer of all-time.

you're a hater if you disagree.

 

[Gaz Pwnage]

No, he really isn't.

 

[Eylos]

Messi has 0 World Cups.


That alone already disqualifies him as the goat.

 

[Cappa]

Where is the comeback, the pressure? In matches in which we needed him to answer, like the Champions league final versus Arsenal, he was an expectator. Messi has scored or made assists in all Champions League finals. He scored the comeback goal in the World Cup of Clubs final too against Independiente. Ronaldinho lost that final for example.

Don't get me wrong, Ronaldinho is a level above many stars, but the comparison against Messi is impossible.

OK, I can randomnly take stats too.

With Barcelona every year Barcelona was eliminated from Champions League Liverpool (2007), Manchester United (2008), Inter (2010), Chelsea (2012), Bayern (2013) and Atlético (2014 and 2016). In ALL of those elimination games, Messi´s grand total of goals is 0 and his total assists is a grand total of 1(against Chelsea) the same Chelsea match he missed a crucial penalty.

So cool, in matches he needed to answer to you know, actually make the finals? He failed, miserably. Messi has not come up big when it matters the most. Congratulations on him scoring a hattrick 1-0 down vs a team already eliminated from World Cup contention.

 

[godhandiscen]

It's because he always controlled the game in the beginning. The only outlier being WC 2006 where he was underwhelming throughout but tactics can be argued for that

If he always controlled the game from the beggining, then how come Barcelona won much less in a bigger span of time with him? There were tons of difficult times when we expected Ronaldinho to come through and he didn't. Also, why we cannot make the same agument for Messi regarding "tactics"?

People love to remember the feints and dribbles, but forget that he never had the balls to pull the cart when we needed him. There is a reason why Barcelona sold him.

 

[The Atticus]

Why have the likes of Ronaldo and Messi thrived this past decade?

It is because Totti changed the way people viewed attacking players. Managers in the past had experimented with false/strikerless formations, but it was only when Totti showed what could be done(the guy became a 'striker' at age 30 and won the golden boot, while many thought he would have to retire a year earlier because of an injury) that the likes of Pep and Fergie decided to transform Messi and Ronaldo into that type of player. Simply put, Totti is responsible for one of the most important changes in the game.

Holy shit, this guy might be on to something...

 

[Frustrated_me]

It is because Totti changed the way people viewed attacking players. Managers in the past had experimented with false/strikerless formations, but it was only when Totti showed what could be done(the guy became a 'striker' at age 30 and won the golden boot, while many thought he would have to retire a year earlier because of an injury) that the likes of Pep and Fergie decided to transform Messi and Ronaldo into that type of player. Simply put, Totti is responsible for one of the most important changes in the game.

Let it go bro, you're worrying me.

 

[Oare]

The reverse neckbeard is and always will be, to both football fans and philistines alike, his most striking achievement by a long shot.

 

[godhandiscen]

OK, I can randomnly take stats too.

With Barcelona every year Barcelona was eliminated from Champions League Liverpool (2007), Manchester United (2008), Inter (2010), Chelsea (2012), Bayern (2013) and Atlético (2014 and 2016). In ALL of those elimination games, Messi´s grand total of goals is 0 and his total assists is a grand total of 1(against Chelsea) the same Chelsea match he missed a crucial penalty.

So cool, in matches he needed to answer to you know, actually make the finals? He failed, miserably. Messi has not come up big when it matters the most. Congratulations on him scoring a hattrick 1-0 down vs a team already eliminated from World Cup contention.

He does answer in those matches dude. Of course not in every one he will save us, but at least in half the times we needed him the most, he single handedly carried Barcelona to victory. The Champions League of 2012 is all him for example.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

I mean, he failed to help to win those finals. You just can't call him the GOAT and "forgive" him for not making the difference in a final, because if he is the GOAT, that's exactly what everyone expects from him.

In fact, during the Copa América in Chile, he was practically erased from the field by chilean players. That's a perfect example of him not being able to demonstrate he is the GOAT.



Ahh. Well, it's just my opinion, not based in stats or anything. I just enjoy watching Messi much more than CR7, when I compare them both, again in my opinion, Messi is more skilled than CR7.

Of course, CR7 is still amazing, and as I said, it's not like Messi makes CR7 to look bad, I just think he is a tad better, overall.

That's fair

 

[Cappa]

He does answer in those matches dude. Of course not in every one he will save us, but at least in half the times we needed him the most, he single handedly carried Barcelona to victory. The Champions League of 2012 is all him for example.

They didnt win in 2012 lol, did you just totally ignore the stats I posted in which Messi has scored 0 goals and 1 assist in Champions league elimination games?

 

[Bersi]

I mean,i think totti being the greatest it's a little too much,but in terms of quality and vision of play he's up there for sure.

Like if you're going to ask me to pick between totti or ronaldinho i'll pick totti without even thinking.

 

[Cappa]

I mean,i think totti being the greatest it's a little too much,but in terms of quality and vision of play he's up there for sure.

Like if you're going to ask me to pick between totti or ronaldinho i'll pick totti without even thinking.

Why? Based on personal perference or merits?

 

[Heshinsi]

Yeah, no he isn't. He has yet to prove he's capable of doing anything with out the Spanish national team at his back at Barca. Scoring a hat trick against Ecuador means nothing. Lost the WC Final, lost the Copa America Final, but yeah let's talk about how he bossed a team significantly lower skilled and with nothing to play for.

 

[godhandiscen]

They didnt win in 2012 lol, did you just totally ignore the stats I posted in which Messi has scored 0 goals and 1 assist in Champions league elimination games?

You hand picked champions league elimination games in which he didn’t score. How about the elimination games against Arsenal, Milan, Bayern, or the finals?

It is as stupid as picking the games in which Ronaldinho never scored and making stats around them.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

Messi = this thread
Sanchez = me reading this thread

 

[Bersi]

Why? Based on personal perference or merits?

I mean,boths?,as i said in terms of pure quality he had nothing to lose compared to the best,and if you wanna talk about merits i would argue than a scudetto at rome is worth way more than a cl with barca.

There'also the fact that totti has been great for almost 20 years while ronaldinho stopped being a top player in 2007?

 

[godhandiscen]

Messi = this thread
Sanchez = me reading this thread

You got eliminated from the World Cup after telling all of South America you are their king?

Messi is the GOAT, with the individual numbers and trophies to back it up. Hopefully the mess of a team that is Argentina can help him lift a World Cup so that the salt becomes endless.

 

[Shanks D Zoro]

Lads, Totti isn't the best because he was the first to do something, but when you are talking about greatness, leadsing the way is part of it. Messi, Ronaldo, and Totti might not have started out as the same type of player, but the success that Totti had showed Fergie and Pep that the way forward was not to have a tradional vocal point of attack. Messi and Ronaldo both lead their attacks as the main attacker without being the CF. Managers adopted this after Roma, followed by Fergie showing what a talented side could do.

Couldn't even beat Peru last round, home, with Messi.
In fact, couldn't beat Venezuela home again, with Messi, the round before.
Got trashed by Brazil (with Messi).

I'm not interested in all this senseless Messi x CRonaldo discussion. I don't even take sides, still undecided.

I'm just pointing out that Messi has failed to do for the entirety of the Qualifiers what he did yesterday. I mean, yeah, he scored a hat trick against the 8th team in a 10 team table.

Talk about a lack of consistency...

you a right, but Argentina are not a very good side. They might have the best selection of players in the world, but for whatever reason they are shit. They don't play great football and they don't get good results.

However, without Messi, they would not have been even in contention for qualifying. The guy carried the team when he could. People like to look back on Maradona's days like he carried teams, he still played with quality players. What he has done with Argentina and what Messi have done are pretty comparable, unless the argument will always end in you are shit unless you win the World Cup.

 

[godhandiscen]

if you wanna talk about merits i would argue than a scudetto at rome is worth way more than a cl with barca

I have now heard it all. Also, he had Batistuta and Montella on fire that season.