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Messi is the GOAT
- Thread starter Perfect Blue
- Start date
R10Neymarfan
Member
What? He was integral in 2004 La Liga and 2006 CL. In fact he single handedly brought down a really good Milan team in two matches
Or you're a 12 yo kid who thinks football started 20 years ago ...
Honestly Messi is part of a small contingent of players who are the legends of the game and it's pretty much impossible to rank them. Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, " Il fenomeno " Ronaldo. Messi etc... How do you rank these guys? All of them won the World cup and more with their countries except for Messi and Cruyff. And don't say " he was born in the wrong country ". He lost in the finals 3 times in big competitions so he had a good enough team for years now.
My god football fans are dramatic. YES it is good to score 3 goals against another team. Especially if you do it all the time. Especially if you HAVE to do it otherwise your kicked out. A lof of great teams and players fail even against smaller teams.
And him not winning any world cup... its a TEAM effort. He cant do it by himself. Its such a bullshit argument to make.
Nemesis121
Member
It takes a team to win a WC, yes Messi is a great player, but the Argentine team is shit and has been for a long time, once he retires i could see them missing the next WC...
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Lol come on.
Between Lamela, Dybala, Icardi, Correa, Pastore, Lo Celso, Otamendi, Mammana and Rulli, Argentina has a good enough base of player to qualify in the future.
Kurt Angle
Member
ronaldo also didnt quit on his country like a coward after a final loss
TheLionsDen
Member
It's pretty telling that the only argument people have against him is "international success", it's a shame that it's unlikely he'll ever get one.
crazy monkey
Banned
This for me is important qualifier.
So did Messi lol
Kurt Angle
Member
why do you have that in quotes? When youre claiming to be the Greatest of all time, you will be judged in criterias where other true greats have performed. Especially in the biggest tournament in the sport, the world cup.
why cant your alleged GOAT win outside of barcelona?
It's been 11 months since any player other than Lionel Messi scored a competitive goal for Argentina...
Argentina would be a god damn corpse without Messi.
Portugal on the other hand would be absolutely fine without Ronaldo.
And same can be said about the clubs they represent. Messi's value to his teams is much, much higher as both Barça and Arg NT would be absolutely fucked if he gets injured since he is carrying both teams on his back.
Hence,
Argentina would be a god damn corpse without Messi.
Portugal on the other hand would be absolutely fine without Ronaldo.
And same can be said about the clubs they represent. Messi's value to his teams is much, much higher as both Barça and Arg NT would be absolutely fucked if he gets injured since he is carrying both teams on his back.
Hence,
Oveja Negra
Member
So...
Messi scoring 3 goals against a bad team, like yesterday = MESSI DAH GOD, THANKS FOR SAVING YOUR NT!!!!!!!
Messi not doing shit against serious opponents = Not his fault, it's a team effort.
Mental gymnastics at its finest.
ronaldo also didnt quit on his country like a coward after a final loss
isnt even the best ronaldo..
RocknRola
Member
isnt even the best ronaldo..
Neymar should cut his hair like that during the WC. Guaranteed win for sure!
Kurt Angle
Member
especially when 2 of those goals were fucking tap ins into a open net.......so GOAT
when the Germans are shoving it up him, its the teams fault though
I don't like downplaying what Ronaldo has accomplished in order to big up Messi even more. For me Messi is the best football player who has ever lived, but it can be argued that Ronaldo is just as influential on the pitch. He scored 10 goals across the QF, SF and Final of last season's Champions League. He's a monster.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Yep, can't carry his teams against serious sides like Zidane did in 2006.
Zidane is the true GOAT.
Always-honest
Banned
Yeah, he is.
Paracelsus
Member
Messi is both the best player in the world and also the worst problem for the Argentina NT.
Keep calm and pass to Messi = Argentina NT past midfield.
What happens when Messi doesn't deliver? Uh-oh. What happens when Messi retires, who are the players you're gonna build your fortune around?
Had Messi single-handedly won world cups like Maradona we'd have a solid argument, but he hasn't, he only has ever won when the team was tailored like a suit around his existence.
To be fair it's not like Messi didn't reach the finals a few times, but every single time he pulled a Juventus: he completely disappeared.
Comparing Messi to Ronaldo is like comparing Zidane to Gerd Müller. You can, but it makes no sense.
Keep calm and pass to Messi = Argentina NT past midfield.
What happens when Messi doesn't deliver? Uh-oh. What happens when Messi retires, who are the players you're gonna build your fortune around?
Had Messi single-handedly won world cups like Maradona we'd have a solid argument, but he hasn't, he only has ever won when the team was tailored like a suit around his existence.
To be fair it's not like Messi didn't reach the finals a few times, but every single time he pulled a Juventus: he completely disappeared.
Comparing Messi to Ronaldo is like comparing Zidane to Gerd Müller. You can, but it makes no sense.
the_darkness
Banned
The "never won a world cup" argument is fucking dumb.
So if the scoreline of 1 game 3 years ago ends up differently, he's the GOAT? That one game negates the entirety of his career?
So if the scoreline of 1 game 3 years ago ends up differently, he's the GOAT? That one game negates the entirety of his career?
Wake me up when he wins a WC /s
This.
it does when the club he played for in his best years was at least 80% of the spanish national team that won two eurocups and a worldcup, playing with barcelona having xavi hernandez, iniesta, villa, alvez, puyol, villa, busquets, pique, pedro rodriguez and so on makes everything soooo much easier, this argentina team is full of stars and still he hasnt won anything, even if he wins it will still not be as impressive as the real GOAT, Diego Armando Maradona.
just to refresh some memories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wVho3I0NtU
Carl2291
Member
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen on the Internet.
the_darkness
Banned
So what you're saying is that if he had a Spanish passport he would be the GOAT?
There's eleven players on the pitch. It's not his fault he happened to be around at the same time as the worst Argentinian side in generations.
And it you think a 'goat' should be able to win by himself, then, lol. Try watching more football.
nop, you are saying that, i am saying he is a great player but due to having that incredible team he's been playing on he was overblown to be the best ever, if he was playing on a lesser team winning less titles there would probably be less talk about him being the best, compare that to maradona when he arrived to Napoli, a team that only had won two titles on their whole history, along comes maradona and helps them win the first italian league, i am saying people rush to call messi names but when you compared the company both messi and maradona had on the pitch you can clearly tell who is the best player ever.
Yeah lot of people don't even remember Romario. He was insane. Only the best CB of all time Franco Baresi was able to stop him ( in the best defensive performance of all time in 1994) .
the_darkness
Banned
If he was Spanish he would have at least 1 WC and 2 Euro's. Based on most of the comments in this thread, that would qualify him for GOAT status.
I understand the point you're making which is that his club success isn't solely his achievement, but what single player in football could ever claim that?
Mass_Pincup
Banned
You`re comparing two different things.
Winning the WC with the current Argentina team would be a bigger achievement then winning it with the 08-12 Spain team. Stuff like that matter to rate player in my opinion.
Paracelsus
Member
Maradona won it in 1986 with a worse team, Messi couldn't even win the Copa America yeah let's blame it on Higuain even though Messi tried three times and choked every single one of them, especially the first one where he was already established, the NT was still quite solid and he couldn't do a thing.
Oveja Negra
Member
It says a lot about the level of fanboyism in this thread when some dudes are trying to convince us that not winning the World Cup, the most important trophy a player can aspire to win, plus not winning the Copa América (twice) which is the second most important trophy for a south american player, is well... not a big deal.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
It's been 11 months since any player other than Lionel Messi scored a competitive goal for Argentina...
Argentina would be a god damn corpse without Messi.
Portugal on the other hand would be absolutely fine without Ronaldo.
And same can be said about the clubs they represent. Messi's value to his teams is much, much higher as both Barça and Arg NT would be absolutely fucked if he gets injured since he is carrying both teams on his back.
Hence,
Ronaldo's carry of Madrid' CL win last year has been bigger than anything Messi has ever done for a Barca title. It might be the best carry I remember in the last decade.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
i don't know much about football
but i have heard people say that peak brazilian ronaldo might of been more skilled than messi, but was injury prone and doesn't have the legacy of messi
is this accurate?
but i have heard people say that peak brazilian ronaldo might of been more skilled than messi, but was injury prone and doesn't have the legacy of messi
is this accurate?
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Not really. He cruised in the Italian league when the strongest team was Juventus. And despite being part of a few monster teams (Madrid) didnt manage to get the Champions league. Messi would pull of the cart by himself at a much younger age. Without injuries he would have perhaps won a Champions League.
Boss Mog
Member
LOL Messi is definitely NOT the GOAT, He didn't win anything at a national level, even though he's in a very strong national team. Not even a Copa America, and OP wanted to call him the GOAT cause he helped Argentina barely qualify on the last day.
Ronaldo won a Euro last year with Portugal so that puts him above Messi in my book. But both are far from Zidane who won everything there was to win in Football and was an absolute brilliant player. Even in his very short managerial career so far he's managed to win most than a lot of great managers. That's what a GOAT should be.
Ronaldo won a Euro last year with Portugal so that puts him above Messi in my book. But both are far from Zidane who won everything there was to win in Football and was an absolute brilliant player. Even in his very short managerial career so far he's managed to win most than a lot of great managers. That's what a GOAT should be.
1- Federer is far from the GOAT of sports with a H2H that bad against his main rival. A G.O.A.T should never have a losing H2H against his biggest rivals. I don't care what the excuse is.
2- I am baffled how people can call Cristiano the best.He's not even the best Ronaldo. I don't care about either of these guys and Messi can be frustrating to watch sometimes, too passive (needs more passion like Ronaldo or Jordan), his penalties are dreadful I mean how can you have such vision, such finishing and yet can't even take proper penalties ? Ronaldo should teach him. But to anyone who is not subjective and really has an understanding of the game I can't see how there is a better player than Messi. It's even more laughable when people think football (I refuse to call it soccer) is played by an individual so bringing up how Germany, arguably the greatest team ever assembled, versus a poor Argentina team could be a great measurements of an individuals ability is just cringe. This isn't tennis where you can go 1 on 1. I don't care how great you are if your team isn't good enough you'll only get so far. Ronaldo won the euros but it was because of him and his poor performance against arguably one of the weakest groups ever in those first 2 matches where they almost got eliminated in the group stages. He delivered the 3rd match but he was poor throughout that tournament. He didn't even play the final and Portugal won without him. That says it all.
I would say that Ronaldo is more of a winner, has that Jordan work ethic and hunger whereas Messi is that silent passive guy who just sees it as another day in the office. But in terms of ability it's night and day. Not even about goals or achievements but about the ability when they have the ball at their feet. Ronaldo to me comes off as a very selfish player who yells or shows his distaste for his teammates when they score or don't pass to him no matter how absurd it is to expect them to do so, he hoards every FK when Bale is a much better one and he rarely scores from it given the amount of times he tries. He mumbles with the ball on his feet, is a bad passer and not a great dribbler. Messi on the other hand has incredible touch and vision I've only slightly ever seen in Maradona. It legit feels like playing a game of FIFA against beginners. The control of the ball with his vision is something else. He passes better than the best passers ever in the history of this game.
I like Real Madrid more but I prefer to watch Messi.
2- I am baffled how people can call Cristiano the best.He's not even the best Ronaldo. I don't care about either of these guys and Messi can be frustrating to watch sometimes, too passive (needs more passion like Ronaldo or Jordan), his penalties are dreadful I mean how can you have such vision, such finishing and yet can't even take proper penalties ? Ronaldo should teach him. But to anyone who is not subjective and really has an understanding of the game I can't see how there is a better player than Messi. It's even more laughable when people think football (I refuse to call it soccer) is played by an individual so bringing up how Germany, arguably the greatest team ever assembled, versus a poor Argentina team could be a great measurements of an individuals ability is just cringe. This isn't tennis where you can go 1 on 1. I don't care how great you are if your team isn't good enough you'll only get so far. Ronaldo won the euros but it was because of him and his poor performance against arguably one of the weakest groups ever in those first 2 matches where they almost got eliminated in the group stages. He delivered the 3rd match but he was poor throughout that tournament. He didn't even play the final and Portugal won without him. That says it all.
I would say that Ronaldo is more of a winner, has that Jordan work ethic and hunger whereas Messi is that silent passive guy who just sees it as another day in the office. But in terms of ability it's night and day. Not even about goals or achievements but about the ability when they have the ball at their feet. Ronaldo to me comes off as a very selfish player who yells or shows his distaste for his teammates when they score or don't pass to him no matter how absurd it is to expect them to do so, he hoards every FK when Bale is a much better one and he rarely scores from it given the amount of times he tries. He mumbles with the ball on his feet, is a bad passer and not a great dribbler. Messi on the other hand has incredible touch and vision I've only slightly ever seen in Maradona. It legit feels like playing a game of FIFA against beginners. The control of the ball with his vision is something else. He passes better than the best passers ever in the history of this game.
I like Real Madrid more but I prefer to watch Messi.