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Michel Ancel and Rayman dev team show up at fan(?) protest RE: Rayman Legends delay

J

JDSN

Banned
Amalthea said:
Those dirty lowly workers. How dare they to speak up against their superiors. What a bunch of commies!
jk
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Leave the jk out and it would have fooled me, consdering some of the posts made by a couple of faux-Pachter.

KeiichiInafune said:
It's pretty ridiculous he would come out only to fan the flames even higher. I'm sure Ancel can take his complaints directly to senior management in Ubisoft this is nothing but destructive.
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He probably did.

marc^o^ said:
More media exposure, IGN is trying to get Ubisoft to comment on that:
http://ign.com/articles/2013/02/12/michel-ancel-and-fellow-devs-protest-rayman-legends-delay

Thanks Rich, that's what we need.
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Luke Karmali, Rich already did his troll article and moved on.
 
H

Hanmik

Member
marc^o^ said:
You used few words yet you lost me... what's your point?
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You make it sound like you are the one "suffering" here from the delay..?
but isn´t the Eurogamer article about the devs of the game, and how they are protesting to get the game released because it is finished and they put alot of work into getting it finished "on time"..?
 
T

tuffy

Member
Dave Meltzer said:
Wii U currently has an install bass well below expectations. In September, maybe it won't.
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When the Wii U's install base grows by September, new owners would still be able to buy a 7 month old game. The problem is that by delaying it for everybody until then, current owners won't be able to buy it until it's 7 months old. And by then there'll be a lot more competition from brand new titles. Nobody will remember some interesting demo they played over half a year ago at the start of the Christmas rush when everything under the sun is coming out.
 
H

Huff

Banned
Linkhero1 said:
In September, Wii U will most likely have games. Then, Rayman will be up against other titles. Now, if marketed correctly, it would be up against nothing until Lego or whatever else is coming out.



What rationale of thinking is that exactly?

Edit: Actually, don't answer. I don't want to go offtopic.
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Maybe ubisoft has a better idea of what games are in the pipeline for wiiU in September than we do
 
M

mclem

Member
A further thought: The game was originally delayed (to Feb) for a few months' extra development. I wonder how much that added to the budget, and how many extra sales that would have needed to recoup it.
 
F

FunnyBunny

Member
SteveWinwood said:
God I hope I never work under some of you people. Insubordination?!?! I am infallible so it must be that they're all jackoffs and they need to be fired!! Can't be as a result of anything I've done and might need to change.

You'd make terrible bosses in every aspect.
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I never called for anyone to be fired. But I would be disappointed with Ancel's actions as a manager.

His job is creative. Ubi's management is the bottom line, and whether we agree with the decision or not, managers believe they are doing what is best for the company as a whole.

Let's flip the script. How would we feel if Ubisoft openly mocked a design decision in one of Ancel's games? We would tell them to mind their own business and let the creators, well, create.

Or better yet - openly protest your superiors' decisions on social media, holding up banners on their property, and tell us how it goes.
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
Sunflower said:
"I'm going to apply this rationale of thinking to everything in the future and hold it over your head" - I understand if he believes it here, but I wouldn't paint with so broad a brush for everything.
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If you have made the supposition somewhere in these last few threads there simply must be internal numbers or that Ubisoft knows best because of non-public information that supports your position, then yeah, it's probably going to come back up.

Note that I am not necessarily saying you're wrong - saying Ubisoft probably did this because of internal numbers is a pretty damn good guess. But the next time someone says "I don't understand why (X) did this, it makes no business sense," surely someone is going to think back to when they referenced the fact that "smart people with MBAs" made other decisions they thought were totally legitimate because of that fact.
 
M

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Hanmik said:
You make it sound like you are the one "suffering" here from the delay..?
but isn´t the Eurogamer article about the devs of the game, and how they are protesting to get the game released because it is finished and they put alot of work into getting it finished "on time"..?
Click to expand...
Sometimes it's cold, and it rains. At the same time.
 
Cbajd5

Cbajd5

Member
Pie and Beans said:
I'd rather keep my dev team onside and happy than satisfy the very loud cries of quite a minority at the expense of future sales. The reason theyre pissed is there was no rush and it sounds like the Feb date was kinda unreasonable seeming from last year.
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But then the ports wouldn't get done.

And who'd make all the demos? They need more demos. A different one with the same levels. Pretty much every month. And now they need to port those demos too!

They can't possibly afford to give them any time off. And they're just going to lay off most, if not all of them after this since the game won't sell well, so there's no reason to do it afterwards.
 
D

DanteRavenkin

Member
I've never been interested in the Rayman games, They just didn't appeal to me. But Legends was the first I was ever excited to play, mostly because of the Wii U kiosk demo (that level with 'Black Betty' sold me.) This delay, foolish as it is, pretty much guarantees I won't purchase the game at full price. It comes down to the first game in a long series I want to play, vs. an installment in a long series that has never disappointed me (GTA). Which would I spend my money on?

I hope Ancel and crew doing this makes Ubi change their mind and release the Wii U version when it was supposed to.
 
T

Tobor

Member
lunchwithyuzo said:
It's more a relations move than a sales one. It negates the blowback the delay brought without any of the real risks going ahead with retail would bring.

Also, Vita sales aren't 15-20% digital across the board, that was for just Ubi's games and it's by revenue iirc. And given Ubi's actually done more business on Wii U than Vita this year (and possibly all totaled), I doubt any release would really "make more sense" there.
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I realize the Vita numbers are for Ubisoft, but this is a Ubisoft game we're talking about.

I'm not saying that they should release on Vita, just that if the digital revenue percentages were in the Vita range on Wii U, releasing as a timed exclusive digital only title on Wii U would make more sense.
 
L

Linkhero1

Member
Huff said:
Maybe ubisoft has a better idea of what games are in the pipeline for wiiU in September than we do
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I really doubt that. I know it's just a speculation, but there's no way Nintendo won't release some games after E3, especially with the Wii U sales right now. If anything, I'd be more inclined that they moved up a few release dates.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
ShockingAlberto said:
If you have made the supposition somewhere in these last few threads there simply must be internal numbers or that Ubisoft knows best because of non-public information that supports your position, then yeah, it's probably going to come back up.

Note that I am not necessarily saying you're wrong - saying Ubisoft probably did this because of internal numbers is a pretty damn good guess. But the next time someone says "I don't understand why (X) did this, it makes no business sense," surely someone is going to think back to when they referenced the fact that "smart people with MBAs" made other decisions they thought were totally legitimate because of that fact.
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Owepoi7.gif


Gotcha, much more...well, reasonable :p
 
K

kirblar

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
If you have made the supposition somewhere in these last few threads there simply must be internal numbers or that Ubisoft knows best because of non-public information that supports your position, then yeah, it's probably going to come back up.

Note that I am not necessarily saying you're wrong - saying Ubisoft probably did this because of internal numbers is a pretty damn good guess. But the next time someone says "I don't understand why (X) did this, it makes no business sense," surely someone is going to think back to when they referenced the fact that "smart people with MBAs" made other decisions they thought were totally legitimate because of that fact.
Click to expand...
In this case, though, we have external numbers.
 
B

Broken_Cartridge

Neo Member
tuffy said:
When the Wii U's install base grows by September, new owners would still be able to buy a 7 month old game. The problem is that by delaying it for everybody until then, current owners won't be able to buy it until it's 7 months old. And by then there'll be a lot more competition from brand new titles. Nobody will remember some interesting demo they played over half a year ago at the start of the Christmas rush when everything under the sun is coming out.
Click to expand...

They'll also have the option to buy said 7 month old game pre owned, which doesn't profit Ubi at all.

Nonetheless, the game shouldn't have been postponed.
 
boyshine

boyshine

Member
Psychotext said:
I'd be amazed if it even charted in most places. The Wii U userbase is virtually non existent and I can't see Rayman being the game to change that.
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Rayman is EXACTLY the kind of game that will do well on a Nintendo console. People are looking for a new game, and Rayman is 2D-platform "like Mario", it's colorful, it's for everyone, it has multiplayer, it's exclusive (if released now).. all of these are things that make it an interesting game for Wii U owners.. I know I'd sell about 30-40 of this the first two weeks in my store, and that's A LOT more than most 3rd party releases sell on 360/PS3. 2D-platformers on Nintendo hardware never fail. Hell, I thought Epic Mickey on 3DS would flop, yet it sold out completely. They don't even need marketing, it will sell itself.
 
T

TentPole

Member
Sunflower said:
When you make a mistake, in a company setting, and your employees think you're doing the wrong thing, it's up to them to make it known and you, as a business leader, to allow a workplace environment where if you're within your bounds, can express yourself and how you feel to executive decisions. I'm not saying Ubisoft does or doesn't have that avenue, but to go publicly and say "I DISAGREE WITH WHAT MY EMPLOYER DOES" makes you a shitty employee and a problem, no matter how talented you are. Some companies can deal with that tradeoff, some don't want to.
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Michel Ancel=shitty employee?
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
Pie and Beans said:
Just don't go all Rayman Revenger on us in the coming months, eh? ;)
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It is rapidly becoming the case that having a position opposed to certain views will get one painted as a symbol of ridiculous vehemence, anyway.

If someone wants to call me names because I don't think this is a good move, by all means, let them.
 
W

Waylon Drums

Member
GregLombardi said:
And just to voice an opinion on this situation:

This is the biggest f up by a game company I've seen in years. And it wasn't Ubisoft's f up, it was Nintendo's. They continue to drop the ball with the Wii U. They should have been at Ubisoft's offices signing an exclusivity agreement the minute they saw the reaction to this game on the internet. The game looks amazing, and yet, Nintendo chooses yet again for their console to have no content. So the decision to delay and release almost a year later isn't even a discussion between Ubisoft and Nintendo -- it's a decision by corporate shills amid likely pressure from Microsoft.

How do you own the entire industry as Nintendo did and yet have such poor competitive business sense? It defies logic.
Click to expand...

Oh please. How do you become a member at NeoGAF whilst having such a loose grip on the games industry? It defies logic.
 
J

jwhit28

Member
To be honest I don't care about the developers or Ubisoft. I just want to play a good game I thought was 2 weeks away. If this makes that reality then I'm okay with what ever happens. I mean I didn't go see Lincoln to make sure Stephen Spielberg understands I appreciate his work and boost ticket sales.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Ubisoft did this to launch all at once on an exponentially larger combined install base. What's being questioned here, exactly?
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
TentPole said:
Michel Ancel=shitty employee?
Click to expand...

Depends on how his boss feels about something like this, it's not up to me to say "this employee is not worth keeping due to this and this and this" - it's all up to the company and what they'll tolerate.

Taking complaints public in general isn't known as a hallmark of a good employee though, many other things hinge on it.
 
D

DaBoss

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
It is rapidly becoming the case that having a position opposed to certain views will get one painted as a symbol of ridiculous vehemence, anyway.

If someone wants to call me names because I don't think this is a good move, by all means, let them.
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Man this is such a perfect response. I must learn from you. *_*
 
Cbajd5

Cbajd5

Member
Broken_Cartridge said:
They'll also have the option to buy said 7 month old game pre owned, which doesn't profit Ubi at all.

Nonetheless, the game shouldn't have been postponed.
Click to expand...

That's why people have been suggesting an eShop only release for now. No pre-owned in that situation unless someone goes out of their way to buy a console that has it on there.
 
G

Gummb

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about Rayman Legends Wii U.
Oh wow. This must be horribly distressing for Ubisoft. So fascinating.
 
M

Minions

Member
GiantBreadbug said:
If someone can objectively prove to me that Legends would have bombed on Wii U in February, and Ubisoft wasn't just buying into Wii U doom and gloom sensationalism for a three month old console, then I will stop saying that this isn't a huge fuck up on Ubi's part.

The game would have sold fine. There were plenty of people who were picking up a Wii U for this game, and it would've had decent legs going into summer.

Kudos to Ancel. I'd ditch Ubisoft and take my team with me.
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I'm sure someone can figure out what the sale rate % is of past rayman games -> total number of consoles sold; and figure out an attach rate, then apply it to the wii-u. I don't think the game(s) really sell that well in comparison to the total number of consoles. Given the number of current Wii-u consoles they wouldn't be selling more than 300k copies. (And that is the high side)

Ex (from lolwiki) Despite its critical success Rayman Origins's sales didn't live up to expectations having sold only 50,000 copies in its first month.[37] However, Ubisoft revealed that the game has been profitable and that they feel it "has the capacity to become a long-term seller for the company
 
nordique

nordique

Member
IdeaMan said:
Ancel et les ptits gars de tout les studios d'Ubi, vous avez mon soutien :jap:

(Par contre, le fait que vous deviez en arriver là pour essayer de vous faire entendre plutôt que de pouvoir régler ça en interne est plutôt inquiétant :()
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mais cela est le problème...j'aurais acheté Rayman ce mois ci (même si multiplat), mais ce retard dans ces circonstances est troublant...et a perdu moi un achat (quand il sortira, peut-être, après une vente...peut-être..-_- )
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
It would be amazing if Legends ends up being underwhelming after this 7 month delay, all the vigor would be erased and replaced with resentment.

The worst thing about this is the unneeded crunch to get this game ready to launch, if Ubisoft upper management contacted the developers a couple months prior to this decision things wouldn't look as hairy on their end.

However, the delay itself and what it means for consumers is moot. Releasing the game now would send it to it's death, releasing in September may do the same but Ubisoft is betting on Legends doing better on three platforms during the GTA V blitz compared to releasing it one platform that's struggling severely.

As a developer I wouldn't be pleased either, but this was the decision that had to be made. It just shouldn't have been made so late.
 
Ü

Übermatik

Member
Wow. This is amazing... hopefully this changes something. Good on them, and you too Ancel!

*edit* Am I being naive? We're now thinking this is a promotional thing?
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Sunflower said:
Depends on how his boss feels about something like this, it's not up to me to say "this employee is not worth keeping due to this and this and this" - it's all up to the company and what they'll tolerate.

Taking complaints public in general isn't known as a hallmark of a good employee though, many other things hinge on it.
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Seriously, though, this seems somehow less severe for a Frenchman. In the US he'd be out of a job, I'd imagine. I don't know if they would risk losing one of their best guys over this, though.
 
C

Corto

Member
FunnyBunny said:
I never called for anyone to be fired. But I would be disappointed with Ancel's actions as a manager.

His job is creative. Ubi's management is the bottom line, and whether we agree with the decision or not, managers believe they are doing what is best for the company as a whole.

Let's flip the script. How would we feel if Ubisoft openly mocked a design decision in one of Ancel's games? We would tell them to mind their own business and let the creators, well, create.

Or better yet - openly protest your superiors' decisions on social media, holding up banners on their property, and tell us how it goes.
Click to expand...

I really think there is a disconnect here between Europe vs. United States. It's nothing spectacular or offensive to have workers peacefully protesting in a company property about management decisions.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
Pie and Beans said:
I'd rather keep my dev team onside and happy than satisfy the very loud cries of quite a minority at the expense of future sales. The reason theyre pissed is there was no rush and it sounds like the Feb date was kinda unreasonable seeming from last year.
Click to expand...
Well, Ubi seems to be accomplishing neither. "Expense of future sales" should also probably be kept in context when dealing with platforms where the last release couldn't break 50k NPD at launch. And that was with the benfit of a Wii version doing most of the heavy lifting.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
dark10x said:
Seriously, though, this seems somehow less severe for a Frenchman. In the US he'd be out of a job, I'd imagine. I don't know if they would risk losing one of their best guys over this, though.
Click to expand...

Corto said:
I really think there is a disconnect here between Europe vs. United States. It's nothing spectacular or offensive to have workers peacefully protesting in a company property about management decisions.
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Well hell, then this topic is about nothing except people not wanting to wait!

Remember Wii U owners:

"The reward of patience is patience."
 
M

MG310

Member
I'd like it to come out as soon as possible. I have a few blue boxes on my shelf, I'd actually like a few more.
 
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