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[Lagspike_exe]

What games are you running maxed out at 1280x720 with a 9500GS?

Fixed. 1080p maxed on 9500GS is laughable.

 

[rezuth]

Did people really think they would make an all new engine when they have been using this one since COD1? IW propbably are working on a new engine, but most likely we won't see it until the next gen. Or maybe they will use id RAGE engine.

Stop this BS

 

[Frenck]

While it's true that most of the games this gen are being made with 360 and PS3 optimization in mind and a PC port is secondary, that's not the only reason visuals aren't keeping pace with the state of the art.

For example, Blizzard and Valve games are optimized to run on as many PCs as possible, laptops, 5 year old desktops, whatever. Starcraft II isn't going to blow people away visually, despite being a PC exclusive. Neither will Diablo III, or the Old Republic, or HL2 Episode Three, etc. Blizzard could care less if graphic whores aren't happy, they're more about making their product available and well optimized to the widest audience possible.

Now the Crysis sequels are focused on consoles, there isn't going to be a straight out graphical titleholder like the original Crysis still is.

You're wrong. Consoles are to blame, as always.

The sheer existence of consoles frustrates Blizzard, Valve and Bioware so much that they toned down the cutting edge CG quality graphics of their products. By removing certain graphical features and lowering the polycount of their PC exclusives they want to make a statement about the industry and its dependence on consolisation of superior PC products.

 

[StuBurns]

You're wrong. Consoles are to blame, as always.

The sheer existence of consoles frustrates Blizzard, Valve and Bioware so much that they toned down the cutting edge CG quality graphics of their products. By removing certain graphical features and lowering the polycount of their PC exclusives they want to make a statement about the industry and its dependence on consolisation of superior PC products.

I don't believe a single word of this.

Valve are cutting down their 'cutting edge CG quality graphics' down because consoles exist? No, just no.

 

[wayward archer]

You're wrong. Consoles are to blame, as always.

The sheer existence of consoles frustrates Blizzard, Valve and Bioware so much that they toned down the cutting edge CG quality graphics of their products. By removing certain graphical features and lowering the polycount of their PC exclusives they want to make a statement about the industry and its dependence on consolisation of superior PC products.

Blizzard hasn't made a console game since starcraft on the n64.

And both Valve and Blizzard understand the advantages of keeping their potential user base as broad as possible by making games that 4+ year old hardware can run well and have stated so many times in interviews.

Has nothing to do with consoles whatsoever.

 

[charsace]

Stop this BS

What BS? I thought they were using the quake 3 engine?

 

[Asmodai]

I don't believe a single word of this.

Valve are cutting down their 'cutting edge CG quality graphics' down because consoles exist? No, just no.

I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic.

 

[Enosh]

bah beaten to it, even posted the same pic

edit: on a related note, IGN reports there won't be a special or prestige version of MW2 for the PC and the game will have a 10$ higer price than other PC games upon release

 

[StuBurns]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a267/moskalel/sarcasm_detector.jpg[img]

I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic.[/QUOTE]
Owned then.

 

[PataHikari]

The fact that the COD games need to include a separate run button on consoles anyway shows just how worthless analog control of movement speed is.

This is a dumb statement.

The "run" button is a "run while unable to fire" button. You sacrifice the ability to attack for higher movement speed.

 

[Kibbles]

Don't you press shift and hold w to run on the pc? Your complaint... I'm not getting it.

 

[Asmodai]

Don't you press shift and hold w to run on the pc? How is that any better?

It is beyond the comprehension of we console plebs to understand how sprinting with W on the PC is better than clicking the analog on console.

Only those who have achieved a more enlightened state of consciousness can truly understand these matters.

Seriously though, I'd just ignore brain_stew's more outlandish posts. If it doesn't have a quad core and a GTX 295 in it, it's worthless for gaming in his eyes.

 

[vocab]

What BS? I thought they were using the quake 3 engine?

:lol They are using a somewhat variation of an ID Tech engine. There's tons of ID Tech engine elements that are present (the way it's programmed, the netcode, the console commands, the way you can modify your config, demo recording), but it's definitely not the Q3 engine.

 

[mario ate my burger]

edit: on a related note, IGN reports there won't be a special or prestige version of MW2 for the PC and the game will have a 10$ higer price than other PC games upon release

Of course there won't be. No PC owner would be stupid enough to buy the prestige version.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

What BS? I thought they were using the quake 3 engine?

The good thing about that modified engine is that MP maps are loaded in a flash.

the bad thing... ehm... hmm... I'm sure there is something...

 

[Enosh]

Of course there won't be. No PC owner would be stupid enough to buy the prestige version.

probably, but I would have quite liked the special edition in the steelcase

 

[vocab]

Don't you press shift and hold w to run on the pc? Your complaint... I'm not getting it.

I don't get his complaint either. My complaint about the breathe button, and the sprint button being the same on consoles is a legitimate complaint though. Because you have to be really precise on the breathe or you will just unscope and run. It's very clunky.

 

[NinjaFridge]

I don't get his complaint either. My complaint about the breathe button, and the sprint button being the same on consoles is a legitimate complaint though. Because you have to be really precise on the breathe or you will just unscope and run. It's very clunky.

Yeah the breath button in COD4 was shit, should have used a different button other than what was used.

 

[brain_stew]

It is beyond the comprehension of we console plebs to understand how sprinting with W on the PC is better than clicking the analog on console.

Only those who have achieved a more enlightened state of consciousness can truly understand these matters.

Seriously though, I'd just ignore brain_stew's more outlandish posts. If it doesn't have a quad core and a GTX 295 in it, it's worthless for gaming in his eyes.

Um, yeah totally explains why my PC is using an E5200. :lol :lol

 

[obonicus]

Actual movement direction itself is fully analog with a kb/m ofcourse, and to a much, much greater degree than with a restrictive analog stick.

You can change your facing much more precisely, but otherwise the kb has you restricted to moving in one of 8 directions relative to that facing.

How often do you find your self needing to move at more than two/three different speeds in an FPS? You'll be moving at full speed most of the time, or really slowly, having a few extra settings inbetween really doesn't add much at all.

This is because of the more limited controls, though -- designers are forced to build their games around limited kb movement. For a counterexample, take Splinter Cell. On PC you have the kludgy mousewheel workaround to regulate movement speed, while on controllers you actually have more direct control over Sam's movement. Not that more limited controls might not have advantages, too -- take UT, the 'dodge' move is probably unworkable on an analog stick.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

What games are you running maxed out at 1920x1200 with a 9500GS?

I don't know about him, but honestly? The Go 7800 in my 4 year-old Dell can run games like Team Fortress 2, Sins of a Solar Empire, HL2, and Bioshock @ or around 60 fps. Even UT3 gives me good frames@ 720p and that's better than any console.

Never mind my I7 -based desktop with the 4890 or my Vaio laptop with 9600m GT. But whatever. I'm surprised by the whole 600p thing but it won't affect whether I buy it or not. I appreciate that it's 60 fps more than anything... and my Live friends are why I play in the first place.

 

[Ardorx]

What BS? I thought they were using the quake 3 engine?

It runs on a heavily modified Q3 engine. If COD4 crashes at launch you get sent to the desktop with a Q3-debug console on. It sits deep in the engine that's why they left it.

You can also use much of the console commands from Q3 in COD4.Of course the rendered has been pretty much rewritten but how much of it is still intact we don't know.

Oh and don't forget that Q3 is based on very, very modified Q1 engine That's one reason why COD games run so damn well on PCs.

If anything, this makes the work IW has done even more impressive considering how out dated that engine is.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Of course there won't be. No PC owner would be stupid enough to buy the prestige version.

The underlying assumption being that PC gamers are smarter? Funny guy. I heart elitism.

 

[Asmodai]

Um, yeah totally explains why my PC is using an E5200. :lol :lol

How can you possibly stand using such obsolete technology? If it can't run Crysis maxed out on 1900 by 1200, 16xAA at 200 frames a second, it's not a real PC!:lol

 

[SapientWolf]

If 600p is what it takes to get the game to run @ 60 fps then that is what I'd honestly prefer tbh, the difference between 600p and 720p is negligible anyhow.

Stop making so much sense. If everyone accepted this and moved on this shitty thread would die and oh what a tragedy that would be.

 

[ghst]

You can change your facing much more precisely, but otherwise the kb has you restricted to moving in one of 8 directions relative to that facing.

guess how many of the world's best competitive fps players use a thumbstick/mouse combo.

go on.

 

[Asmodai]

Stop making so much sense. If everyone accepted this and moved on this shitty thread would die and oh what a tragedy that would be.

Noo, I heard the 1500th post will be amazingly epic and make everything make complete sense in retrospect.

 

[mario ate my burger]

The underlying assumption being that PC gamers are smarter? Funny guy. I heart elitism.

Sorry, I didn't actually mean it like that. I'm not sure how to word what I meant, but I didn't mean PC gamers are smarter

 

[obonicus]

guess how many of the world;s best competitive fps players use a thumbstick/mouse combo.

go on.

Will you please explain how that's relevant? He's saying that you get finer directional control out of keyboard. That's plainly false. Keyboard can give you 8 different directions, analog stick can give you much more.

That the best people at a game designed around kb/m use kb/m shouldn't be too shocking.

 

[ghst]

That the best people at a game designed around kb/m use kb/m shouldn't be too shocking.

you're saying cod 4 was designed around kb/m? how about modern warfare 2?

 

[obonicus]

you're saying cod 4 was designed around kb/m? how about modern warfare 2?

I haven't played MW2, so I can't judge, but was there any advantage to using analog controls for movement in CoD4? Pretty much all FPS/TPS are still designed around kb, even if they know that most people playing it will use controllers. Like brain_stew said, how often do you really have to regulate your speed in an FPS? How well do you have controls that actually distinguish headings between, say, 337 degrees and 350 degrees?

But because developers choose not to use the extra granularity of an analog stick doesn't mean that the keyboard is suddenly more precise when it comes to movement.

 

[Curufinwe]

Precision in aiming is much more important than precision in movement for FPS games, though.

But using the mouse wheel for Splinter Cell does sound pretty lame. I'm glad I played it on the Xbox.

 

[Frenck]

Precision in aiming is much more important than precision in movement for FPS games, though.

But using the mouse wheel for Splinter Cell does sound pretty lame. I'm glad I played it on the Xbox.

There is a way to have your cake and eat it too.

Decent PC + X360 controller + GFW enabled game

That way you get the best graphics and perfomance plus the smoother, more cinematic analog controls (for SP games). Or you can buy the console version if you can live with less than perfect but still enjoyable graphics and performance.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

What games are you running maxed out at 1920x1200 with a 9500GS?

1680x1050.

Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Mass Effect, other 360 ports. That's what we're talking about right? 360 ports?

 

[Draft]

Precision in aiming is much more important than precision in movement for FPS games, though.

But using the mouse wheel for Splinter Cell does sound pretty lame. I'm glad I played it on the Xbox.

Has to be tried to be appreciated. It is actually a very precise and elegant control mechanic. In fact, I give Splinter Cell high regards in that department. It is one of the few games to do something interesting with the mousewheel, instead of just scrolling through weapons or adjusting zoom.

 

[obonicus]

Has to be tried to be appreciated. It is actually a very precise and elegant control mechanic. In fact, I give Splinter Cell high regards in that department. It is one of the few games to do something interesting with the mousewheel, instead of just scrolling through weapons or adjusting zoom.

It works okay (I played the first 3 SCs on PC), but it does highlight the lower range of kb controls for movement. Just like CoD4's 'double-tap' autolock on console speaks volumes for aiming with an analog stick.

 

[Gully State]

Will you please explain how that's relevant? He's saying that you get finer directional control out of keyboard. That's plainly false. Keyboard can give you 8 different directions, analog stick can give you much more.

This is absolutely wrong and people need to stop using this poor argument. If movement was only wasd vs analog then you might have a point. But movement is a combination of both analog sticks/kb & mouse in a fps. You can make way more precise and quick changes in direction with a kb/mouse combo than dual analog.

 

[obonicus]

This is absolutely wrong and people need to stop using this poor argument. If movement was only wasd vs analog then you might have a point. But movement is a combination of both analog sticks/kb & mouse in a fps. You can make way more precise and quick changes in direction with a kb/mouse combo than dual analog.

I'll requote myself:

You can change your facing much more precisely, but otherwise the kb has you restricted to moving in one of 8 directions relative to that facing.

We are, indeed, talking only about wasd as opposed to the combination, because these are separate controls. You could theoretically have an analog stick (or any sort of analog controller) input for movement + mouse for facing.

 

[Gully State]

I'll requote myself:



We are, indeed, talking only about wasd as opposed to the combination, because these are separate controls. You could theoretically have an analog stick (or any sort of analog controller) input for movement + mouse for facing.

But in the case of FPS, movement isn't restricted to just wasd and the left analog. It's dual analog vs mouse and keyboard. You can't just ignore a heavy component of movement just to fit your argument.

 

[Stinkles]

This was a terrible thread to begin with - let us be clear: An objectively handsome game being assaulted for using a simple resolution solution to enhance its already good looks (frame rate/shader perf, etc) and now the entire thread has fallen firmly into Clown School.

We know PCs have higher resolution.
We know consoles are simple and convenient to use.
We know mouselook is more accurate.
We know analog sticks are comfy.
We know that many gaf-ers prefer one over the other for a multitude of reasons.
We know that lots of people play and enjoy both.


Just let this thread DIE. It is worthless and we are all stupider for participating in it.

 

[ghst]

This was a terrible thread to begin with - let us be clear: An objectively handsome game being assaulted for using a simple resolution solution to enhance its already good looks (frame rate/shader perf, etc) and now the entire thread has fallen firmly into Clown School.

We know PCs have higher resolution.
We know consoles are simple and convenient to use.
We know mouselook is more accurate.
We know analog sticks are comfy.
We know that many gaf-ers prefer one over the other for a multitude of reasons.
We know that lots of people play and enjoy both.


Just let this thread DIE. It is worthless and we are all stupider for participating in it.

i miss the old outerworldvoice. so full of pomp and vigor he was. not this broken husk, clamouring for peace.

an adversary for sure, but a fine one. not the limp politician that stands behind this post.

 

[Opiate]

There ARE genres where I think Dual Analogs have an edge: the two I can think of are Action (a la Ninja Gaiden) and Platformers (but so few of these are made any longer that I'm not sure this matters).

I prefer a wheel for racing, an arcade stick for fighters, KB/M for FPS, TPS, RTS and MMO, and RPGs are dependent on style and approach (rule of thumb generally is that the more complicated the controls the more likely it's going to be better on PC).

 

[obonicus]

But in the case of FPS, movement isn't restricted to just wasd and the left analog. It's dual analog vs mouse and keyboard. You can't just ignore a heavy component of movement just to fit your argument.

I'm not ignoring anything. Are you saying that mouse + keyboard is superior, or even equivalent to say, analog + mouse for movement? I'm not really going out on a limb when I say that keyboard's 8 directions is less freedom of movement than however many directions you can move with an analog stick. Again, though, for most games it doesn't matter because you're pretty much limited to 8 ways in most FPS.

 

[obonicus]

i miss the old outerworldvoice. so full of pomp and vigor he was. not this broken husk, clamouring for peace.

I think I'll start using the phrase 'objectively handsome', though. Maybe I'll start adding 'objectively' to other opinions of mine, too.

 

[Gully State]

I'm not ignoring anything. Are you saying that mouse + keyboard is superior, or even equivalent to say, analog + mouse for movement? I'm not really going out on a limb when I say that keyboard's 8 directions is less freedom of movement than however many directions you can move with an analog stick. Again, though, for most games it doesn't matter because you're pretty much limited to 8 ways in most FPS.

So you're saying that turning is not a component of movement?

 

[The Librarian]

This was a terrible thread to begin with - let us be clear: An objectively handsome game being assaulted for using a simple resolution solution to enhance its already good looks (frame rate/shader perf, etc) and now the entire thread has fallen firmly into Clown School.

We know PCs have higher resolution.
We know consoles are simple and convenient to use.
We know mouselook is more accurate.
We know analog sticks are comfy.
We know that many gaf-ers prefer one over the other for a multitude of reasons.
We know that lots of people play and enjoy both.


Just let this thread DIE. It is worthless and we are all stupider for participating in it.

Let's take a vote.

 

[obonicus]

So you're saying that turning is not a component of movement?

I'm sorry, are you even in this discussion? Where did you get that from? Was it because I pitted a mouse against a mouse for turning?

 

[Ceebs]

You're wrong. Consoles are to blame, as always.

The sheer existence of consoles frustrates Blizzard, Valve and Bioware so much that they toned down the cutting edge CG quality graphics of their products. By removing certain graphical features and lowering the polycount of their PC exclusives they want to make a statement about the industry and its dependence on consolisation of superior PC products.

Companies like Valve and Blizzard are not in the business of toning down their games for everyone. They instead use highly SCALABLE engines. Left 4 Dead or Half-Life for example can run on low end hardware and it will play fine, however if you have a high end machine, the game looks amazing.

The same goes with Blizzard. WoW can look amazing on up to date hardware, but it will run on anything. Expect Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 to be the same way.

 

[StuBurns]

Let's take a vote.

It's back. The last one wasn't so hot.

That's the level of indifference I now have for this thread. I feel no shame for posting something completely unrelated and off topic.

 

[Gully State]

I'm sorry, are you even in this discussion? Where did you get that from? Was it because I pitted a mouse against a mouse for turning?

You're talking about movement. But movement in an FPS is not just the analog vs. keyboard.