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[ElectricBlanketFire]

A loss is a loss. But I do not agree she is a hero to the world for carry the pregnancy. While she may have the intentions of donating the organs, it may or may not be medically viable option.

So she's carrying a baby, knowing it won't live, but not knowing if it can be used for organ donation...and that's not note-worthy to you.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

I'm interested - could you give me an example of something you would consider to be a heroic act? Doesn't have to be related to pregnancy or anything like that - just generally speaking.

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

 

[Stormhammer]

Yeah, it's called the loss of a child/pregnancy. Yeah, it's fucking hard to go through. One situation isn't any better or easier to deal with, they both fucking suck. Is the death of a child from cancer any worse than the death of child from SIDS? Is the loss of a child who happens to be a soldier anymore difficult to a mother who loses her child from suicide? Is the soldier's mother suppose to be less sad because she gets a pat on the back and the comforting words of "your child is a hero"???

A loss is a loss. But I do not agree she is a hero to the world for carry the pregnancy. While she may have the intentions of donating the organs, it may or may not be medically viable option.

she may not be a -world- hero but -if- the organs are salvageable and help another baby's life, she could be a hero to someone. why are you so against anyone even acknowledging the positivity of it?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

Doubling down on the 'whataboutism' is silly. This thread is specifically about this story. If we utilized your logic no thread would be able to discuss any specific subject because 'what about____'.

 

[prag16]

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

No such thing as a heroic act. Got it. What about rushing into a collapsing burning building and risking death to rescue strangers? Or is that just mere "humanity" to you too? Tough crowd.

 

[King of GAF]

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

How many lives have you saved?

 

[Cat Party]

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

This is without a doubt the weirdest hill I've ever seen someone so eager to die on.

 

[crisdecuba]

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

Wait would any of those things you listed count as heroic to you? If not, what is something that would? I'm just trying to understand how you're using the word. Acts of humanity feels ambiguous and a phrasing I've never come across used in this way.

 

[Stormhammer]

Hero: a person noted for courageous acts or nobility of character

are her actions not to be considered noble?

 

[elrechazado]

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

Those doctors are no different than docs who practice in Asia, or who perform plastic surgery in Beverly hills. Why are churches creating safe homes in LA when there are so many needy people in Venezuela? Those families donating organs don't even know if the organs will be viable, and if they are, so what? No different than someone donating some plasma for crack money. Why didn't the grocery buyer buy groceries? Why are they special? No different than buying McDonald's for your own family dinner.

No such thing as a heroic act. Got it. What about rushing into a collapsing burning building and risking death to rescue strangers? Or is that just mere "humanity" to you too? Tough crowd.

No different than standing by a campfire.

 

[Raab]

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

What is your definition of heroic? Strange to hinge an argument on a label used so broadly.

 

[MooseKnuckles]

There's plenty of people that perform acts of humanity everyday, like doctors that practice in Africa, churches creating safe homes in L.A., Canada taking in refugees, families that choose everyday to donate organs, a person buying groceries for some one... Acts of humanity don't have to be labeled herioc.

Those are all noble actions and any well adjusted person wouldn't get outraged if these people were labelled as heroic. There isn't a limited resource of admiration for people acting selflessly, heroism can and does exist in many forms.

 

[renegade_dewitt]

Its great to see that even in these turbulent times that there are still selfless and resilient people like this mother out there in the world who will help humanity through their actions instead of their words. Inspirational stuff this. Thanks OP for posting this.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

God that is incredibly sad. Had a hard time reading some of that. Truly selfless move.

 

[Keri]

I think Eye for an Eye is taking issue with this particular labeling, because she's assuming that, if we think this woman is a hero for carrying the child to term, we must think that women who do the opposite (terminate the pregnancy) are the opposite of heroes (villains). If that's the case, you're mistaken, Eye.

The absence of heroism isn't villainy, it's just being normal. I'm fortunate not to have been in this position, but my husband and I planned to terminate, if there was a serious defect, effecting life quality. Women who terminate in this situation, like you did and like I would have done, are just normal people responding in a normal way to an awful situation.

This woman being a hero, doesn't make the rest of us normal people any worse.

 

[Einchy]

This is without a doubt the weirdest hill I've ever seen someone so eager to die on.

This whole thing is completely bizarre.

 

[Jenov]

I think Eye for an Eye is taking issue with this particular labeling, because she's assuming that, if we think this woman is a hero for carrying the child to term, we must think that women who do the opposite (terminate the pregnancy) are the opposite of heroes (villains). If that's the case, you're mistaken, Eye.

The absence of heroism isn't villainy, it's just being normal. I'm fortunate not to have been in this position, but my husband and I planned to terminate, if there was a serious defect, effecting life quality. Women who terminate in this situation, like you did and like I would have done, are just normal people responding in a normal way to an awful situation.

This woman being a hero, doesn't make the rest of us normal people any worse.

Well said.

 

[hockeypuck]

While she may have the intentions of donating the organs, it may or may not be medically viable option.

That's a weird thing to proclaim from someone who appears to have zero medical training.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

This woman being a hero, doesn't make the rest of us normal people any worse.

It's astounding that this even needs to be pointed out.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

That's a weird thing to proclaim from someone who appears to have zero medical training.

Well you can also look up the information pertaining to how many stillbirths there are with this condition.

http://www.chw.org/medical-care/fetal-concerns-center/conditions/infant-complications/anencephaly/

Infants with anencephaly are stillborn in about 75 percent of cases. Newborns who survive die within several hours, days, or weeks.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/anencephaly

Because these nervous system abnormalities are so severe, almost all babies with anencephaly die before birth or within a few hours or days after birth.

http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/death/

Of the 2.2 million people who die in America each year, relatively few die under circumstances that make them medically eligible to be either organ donors or tissue donors.

That means she has to get to a viable point in the pregnancy, have a c-section, have the baby immediately connected to life support, before it dies in the womb. She can go in one day and not find a heartbeat and she'd no longer be able to donate the organs, but she could very well donate the body to research. But then she wouldn't be a hero any longer.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Well you can also look up the information pertaining to how many stillbirths there are with this condition.

http://www.chw.org/medical-care/fetal-concerns-center/conditions/infant-complications/anencephaly/



https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/anencephaly

http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/death/


That means she has to get to a viable point in the pregnancy, have a c-section, have the baby immediately connected to life support, before it dies in the womb. She can go in one day and not find a heartbeat and she'd no longer be able to donate the organs, but she could very well donate the body to research.

But it's her body and she has a right to try if she wants, right? I don't understand shitting on the attempt. She's trying to turn this into a net positive.

But then she wouldn't be a hero any longer.

You should ridiculously bitter.

 

[Captin Quacker]

Well you can also look up the information pertaining to how many stillbirths there are with this condition.

http://www.chw.org/medical-care/fetal-concerns-center/conditions/infant-complications/anencephaly/



https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/anencephaly

http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/death/


That means she has to get to a viable point in the pregnancy, have a c-section, have the baby immediately connected to life support, before it dies in the womb. She can go in one day and not find a heartbeat and she'd no longer be able to donate the organs, but she could very well donate the body to research. But then she wouldn't be a hero any longer.

And that would still make her a hero because she's going above and beyond to help even if it doesn't work out

 

[Goodstyle]

I don't think Eye for an Eye is a bad person, I think she has an extreme antipathy to pro-life arguments, and anything that even approaches that, like a woman who refuses to terminate a pregnancy being hailed a hero, is anathema to her.

 

[EVOL 100%]

There is some absurd level of projecting going on here.

And Jesus Christ, I thought I was bitter

 

[Eye for an Eye]

I don't think Eye for an Eye is a bad person, I think she has an extreme antipathy to pro-life arguments, and anything that even approaches that, like a woman who refuses to terminate a pregnancy being hailed a hero, is anathema to her.

I have nothing against the woman or her story or her decision. I just don't agree with the way people are responding to it and hailing her as a hero. I've said that from the beginning and I won't back away from my decision.

You all are talking from a hypothetical situation you can't even imagine being in. Only a couple of people on here could even come close to understand the situation, and understand the hardships that come with making a decision. So far, I'm the only person on here that has ever actually made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. Noobcraft has also stated in here and before of his wife carrying a non viable pregnancy to term. I have no ill will towards him, or the woman in the story, or underestimate the emotional trauma of it, but I will not say that one decision was easier or harder to deal with. A loss is a loss. I leave it all on the same level.

 

[Matt]

I have nothing against the woman or her story or her decision. I just don't agree with the way people are responding to it and hailing her as a hero. I've said that from the beginning and I won't back away from my decision.

You all are talking from a hypothetical situation you can't even imagine being in. Only a couple of people on here could even come close to understand the situation, and understand the hardships that come with making a decision. So far, I'm the only person on here that has ever actually made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. Noobcraft has also stated in here and before of his wife carrying a non viable pregnancy to term. I have no ill will towards him, or the woman in the story, or underestimate the emotional trauma of it, but I will not say that one decision was easier or harder to deal with. A loss is a loss. I leave it all on the same level.

But people aren't saying that not terminating is heroic. They are saying that not terminating for the express purpose of trying to help others is a selfless act, and noble. Obviously I don't have to tell you this, but pregnancy is a long and difficult process, and she is going through it only for the hope of saving the lives of people she does not know. That's a very large burden this woman is taking on herself for a heroic goal.

 

[Keri]

I have nothing against the woman or her story or her decision. I just don't agree with the way people are responding to it and hailing her as a hero. I've said that from the beginning and I won't back away from my decision.

You all are talking from a hypothetical situation you can't even imagine being in. Only a couple of people on here could even come close to understand the situation, and understand the hardships that come with making a decision. So far, I'm the only person on here that has ever actually made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. Noobcraft has also stated in here and before of his wife carrying a non viable pregnancy to term. I have no ill will towards him, or the woman in the story, or underestimate the emotional trauma of it, but I will not say that one decision was easier or harder to deal with. A loss is a loss. I leave it all on the same level.

You know part of what this woman experienced, but you don't know what it's like to carry a baby to term, that you know won't survive. Your experience is not the same as this woman's and there is a difference. There are very good reasons why most women don't make the same choice as this woman.

 

[timetokill]

We call people who rush into a burning building heroes for doing something difficult, or dangerous, for the well-being of others. That's a dramatic case. But even in smaller cases, we consider people heroes for coming to the aid of others. There's a woman I work with who helps troubled kids, those with learning disabilities or behavioral issues. It costs a lot of money. But she also takes on additional work with some kids whose parents can't afford it. She goes to weekend meetings with these kids and their parents at their schools to help create plans for the kids to get the best possible chance at a decent education. She does this in spite of the huge emotional toll of dealing with kids who are struggling not only with school but with a lack of friends due to their situation, in spite of some of the parents that aren't doing what is necessary to give their kids the support they need, in spite of an educational bureaucracy that often puts numbers ahead of the welfare of some kids. She doesn't have to do that, but she does, and I think it's heroic.

But you know what, Eye for an Eye?
If a person doesn't rush into a burning building, it doesn't make them a coward or a villain. We don't sit there blaming them. We understand. Most of us wouldn't, or couldn't, do it. It's normal. There's no blame being assigned. The fact that I can't do what my coworker does doesn't make me a villain. But it does make me appreciate what she does as being special and heroic.

Somebody doing something that poses no benefit to themselves at best, that takes on the myriad of worst case possibilities simply to help others, is something that many of us want to thank them for. If it was commonplace, we wouldn't be having this thread right now.

You know part of what this woman experienced, but you don't know what it's like to carry a baby to term, that you know won't survive. Your experience is not the same as this woman's and there is a difference. There are very good reasons why most women don't make the same choice as this woman.

Well said.

 

[Raab]

I have nothing against the woman or her story or her decision. I just don't agree with the way people are responding to it and hailing her as a hero. I've said that from the beginning and I won't back away from my decision.

You all are talking from a hypothetical situation you can't even imagine being in. Only a couple of people on here could even come close to understand the situation, and understand the hardships that come with making a decision. So far, I'm the only person on here that has ever actually made the choice to terminate a pregnancy. Noobcraft has also stated in here and before of his wife carrying a non viable pregnancy to term. I have no ill will towards him, or the woman in the story, or underestimate the emotional trauma of it, but I will not say that one decision was easier or harder to deal with. A loss is a loss. I leave it all on the same level.

so "it is what it is" is your logical conclusion? Impossible to argue.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

You know part of what this woman experienced, but you don't know what it's like to carry a baby to term, that you know won't survive. Your experience is not the same as this woman's and there is a difference. There are very good reasons why most women don't make the same choice as this woman.

I'm not saying that I know exactly what she feels, nor would she know how I felt to make the decision to end a pregnancy. We have two different experiences, but my loss is no less than her loss. And there are just as many women who carry a pregnancy to term as there are those that decide to terminate a pregnancy. It's a personal, private choice. No one is a hero for making a choice given the circumstances of the situation. She's doing what she chooses to do in order to cope with the situation.

 

[Matt]

I'm not saying that I know exactly what she feels, nor would she know how I felt to make the decision to end a pregnancy. We have two different experiences, but my loss is no less than her loss. And there are just as many women who carry a pregnancy to term as there are those that decide to terminate a pregnancy. It's a personal, private choice. No one is a hero for making a choice given the circumstances of the situation. She's doing what she chooses to do in order to cope with the situation.

No one is saying her loss is greater, and no one is calling her a hero for simply not terminating the pregnancy.

 

[GalacticToast]

She's doing what she chooses to do in order to cope with the situation.

Oh, word? So you talked to her and she told you why she was doing it?

Or are you just that frustrated with your own life that the idea that some people might find it admirable that someone could take such a shitty situation and push through for a good reason annoys you?

Lady is a hero to me.

 

[Whales]

Damn... Poor her. She's amazing

How can a baby be conceived with their brain missing..? Is there a medical term for this?

 

[Count Dookkake]

Damn... Poor her. She's amazing

How can a baby be conceived with their brain missing..? Is there a medical term for this?

Anencephaly.

 

[CadetMahoney]

If it's brainless, as in no brain at all (and not some watered down scientific laymans term for something else), is it a person at birth?

When extra limbs are removed from conjoined twins with only 1 brain, does anyone argue that -someone- is being killed? If they don't then isn't it proof that to be a -being- you need a brain? The equipment to house an *i*.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

Somebody doing something that poses no benefit to themselves at best, that takes on the myriad of worst case possibilities simply to help others, is something that many of us want to thank them for. If it was commonplace, we wouldn't be having this thread right now.

You guys are the one picking apart my opinion. Everyone could've just ignored it and we wouldn't have five pages of this. But you guys want to vilify me for having a different opinion. I formed my opinion based on my experience, which happens to be different than anyone else here. It's plain and simple, I don't consider her a hero or performing a heroic act.

She could be one of these women
http://www.anencephaly.info/e/organdonation.php

Each potential donation has various criteria that must be met, donation is a very viable option for a baby with anencephaly if families wish to pursue this option.

There are two main types of donation possibilities: Donation for transplant and donation for research.

Or she could have been one of these women
https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2016/fetal-tissue-research-weapon-and-casualty-war-against-abortion

Fetal tissue research dates back to the 1930s, and has led to major advances in human health, including the virtual elimination of such childhood scourges as polio, measles and rubella in the United States.1,2 Today, fetal tissue is being used in the development of vaccines against Ebola and HIV, the study of human development, and efforts to treat and cure conditions and diseases that afflict millions of Americans.

Is either scenerio less heroic in your eyes?

 

[Keri]

I'm not saying that I know exactly what she feels, nor would she know how I felt to make the decision to end a pregnancy. We have two different experiences, but my loss is no less than her loss. And there are just as many women who carry a pregnancy to term as there are those that decide to terminate a pregnancy. It's a personal, private choice. No one is a hero for making a choice given the circumstances of the situation. She's doing what she chooses to do in order to cope with the situation.

Circumstances matter. Knowing a baby won't survive is a circumstance that makes carrying a pregnancy to term significantly more difficult. The fact that you are trying to discount this and suggest that it's exactly the same as proceeding with a healthy pregnancy or terminating, is really...off. Her loss isn't any greater than anyone else's, but she's choosing a path that draws the experience out, prevents her from moving on and includes all of the physical pain and risks associated with late-term pregnancy and delivery - only for the hope of helping others.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

Damn... Poor her. She's amazing

How can a baby be conceived with their brain missing..? Is there a medical term for this?

It falls into neural tube defects, when the brain or spinal cord are missing or damaged. In cases of anencephaly, the grey matter of the brain is missing, but the center core is still present.

 

[thetrin]

Wow, pretty selfless thing to do.

 

[Raab]

Wow, pretty selfless thing to do.

but but not heroic

edit: i4i hasn't really stated what is heroic but keeps using the term

 

[Mett]

Wow, that's truly amazing. I have nothing but incredible amounts of respect for this woman for thinking of others during such an emotionally heartbreaking time.

 

[fanboi]

You guys are the one picking apart my opinion. Everyone could've just ignored it and we wouldn't have five pages of this. But you guys want to vilify me for having a different opinion. I formed my opinion based on my experience, which happens to be different than anyone else here. It's plain and simple, I don't consider her a hero or performing a heroic act.

She could be one of these women
http://www.anencephaly.info/e/organdonation.php


Or she could have been one of these women
https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2016/fetal-tissue-research-weapon-and-casualty-war-against-abortion


Is either scenerio less heroic in your eyes?

No?

I find every woman prepared to go through pregnancy a bloody hero.

But you seem to not handle your situation good and projecting thus becoming (sounding) extremely bitter person.

 

[Pancake Mix]

That's an amazingly selfless and compassionate move, heroic even. Bravo.

 

[totowhoa]

This woman is a damn hero.

This thread is unfortunate, though. Kudos to Eye for standing her ground at least, I guess. I'm going to pass on arguin here. It's feeling like a dead end.

 

[ironmang]

Fuck that must be hard, that's extremely sad.

Ya can't even imagine something like this. Remarkable woman.

 

[ramparter]

A fetus without brain? And it's alive? How???

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

That's the most beautiful and horrific story I've ever heard. She's a god damn hero, if there is a heaven she fucking earns the top spot. I can't imagine the bravery she has, fucking incredible.

 

[hockeypuck]

Well you can also look up the information pertaining to how many stillbirths there are with this condition.

http://www.chw.org/medical-care/fetal-concerns-center/conditions/infant-complications/anencephaly/



https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/anencephaly

http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/death/


That means she has to get to a viable point in the pregnancy, have a c-section, have the baby immediately connected to life support, before it dies in the womb. She can go in one day and not find a heartbeat and she'd no longer be able to donate the organs, but she could very well donate the body to research. But then she wouldn't be a hero any longer.

Or if you did better and more specific research, such as finding position papers from the American Academy of Pediatrics or the Canadian Paediatric Society, you would find out that successful organ donation from anencephalic neonates is extremely rare (I could only find 2 case reports), neither professional society recommends organ donation from anencephalic neonates as standard of care, and thus this part of your argument is moot. Hence why I found it weird that someone without medical training would even begin to formulate an opinion on medical feasibility on an extremely rare scenario when you can't even present the proper research.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

Or if you did better and more specific research, such as finding position papers from the American Academy of Pediatrics or the Canadian Paediatric Society, you would find out that successful organ donation from anencephalic neonates is extremely rare (I could only find 2 case reports), neither professional society recommends organ donation from anencephalic neonates as standard of care, and thus this part of your argument is moot. Hence why I found it weird that someone without medical training would even begin to formulate an opinion on medical feasibility on an extremely rare scenario when you can't even present the proper research.

Doesn't that make the point of this whole story moot?

 

[Media]

Eye, I really don't understand why you are taking such outrageous offensive to other people finding her actions admirable. The only conclusion I can come to is that you still have a ton of issues about your own losses, in which case you really should see someone. No one is hurting you by finding this woman admirable, I promise. It had nothing to do with you at all, actually.