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NeoGAF March 8th/11th Caucus Thread (Wyoming + Mississippi = OBAMATON)

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APF said:
John McCain:

“But until that day came I would not in any way, as Senator Obama wants to do, legitimize an individual who has been responsible for education, repression, political prisons and a gulag,’’ he said. “I don’t think that it would be appropriate to legitimize someone like Raul Castro by quote, sitting down with him. And under no circumstance would I do it.’"

uhh...



edit: "I don’t think they’re picking on me because I’m a woman; I think they’re picking on me because I’m winning!"

APF I remember when she said, but you and I both know it's bullshit. There are many times in which she has directly planted the seeds that she is being discriminated against because she is a woman and all the female activist supporters she has came out in droves on channels like CNN saying it's unfair because she's a woman they are attacking her and all this crap. SHE started it and they ran with it.

How do you think this whole media bias crap was started? She helped start it that is why SNL did that skit. It isn't because of anything they noticed in the media. It is because Hilary started complaining about it so they decided they could make something cool out of it and make a big political statement at the same time.

"obama has never said that black people should vote for him because he is black. hillary constantly says that woman should vote for her because she is a woman."

Damn right. Notice that Obama is very careful about talking about electing the first black president. He stays away from saying such a thing at all costs majority of the time. Hilary constantly talks the "lets shatter the highest ceiling and elect the first woman president!"

Or her other victim attempt "I'm a woman running for President" I forgot where she said that one.
 
APF said:
edit: "I don’t think they’re picking on me because I’m a woman; I think they’re picking on me because I’m winning!"


To be fair, she said this after people started criticizing her for the whole "big bad men"/"piling on"/ "i'm a poor defenseless woman" schtick. Don't play that selective memory bullshit.
 
Wyoming and Mississipi will increase Obama's delegate lead. Hillary gained 4 delegates on him Tuesday...He'll make those up and then some in these two states and increase his lead.
 
Listening to a podcast of Tom Hartmann's show (oh noes) from yesterday, he was on Fox & Friends on Wednesday, and before he went on the hosts asked for Texas Republicans who crossed over and voted for Hillary to let them know, within fifteen minutes they had received 1400 emails from such 'voters'. That's just the ones who watch Fox & Friends and only the ones who felt compelled to send an email. Wow, I would love to know how many total Hillary Texas votes were from dittoheads. :lol
 

APF

Member
CowboyAstronaut said:
How do you think this whole media bias crap was started?
A series of studies came-out saying Obama was getting overwhelmingly-positive press, to the extent that it completely warped balanced news coverage between the parties, let alone between the Democratic candidates? Then Obama became the frontrunner and to continue to do so would be incredibly embarrassing for the press?


Tell me where Hillary says, "vote for me because I'm a woman."



AdmiralViscen: agreed; I just wanted to point-out the hypocrisy in a group that constantly piles-on her and her supporters for "playing the gender card," but see nothing incongruous with their using the race of their candidate as a political talking-point.
 
Been posted already? Hillary on the possibility of caucuses in Michigan and perhaps Florida...

“I would not accept a caucus. I think that would be a great disservice to the 2 million people who turned out and voted. I think that they want their votes counted. And you know a lot of people would be disenfranchised because of the timing and whatever the particular rules were. This is really going to be a serious challenge for the Democratic Party because the voters in Michigan and Florida are the ones being hurt, and certainly with respect to Florida the Democrats were dragged into doing what they did by a Republican governor and a Republican Legislature. They didn’t have any choice whatsoever. And I don’t think that there should be any do-over or any kind of a second run in Florida. I think Florida should be seated.”

That's a lie.

"Florida Democrats are all for it," Mark Bubriski, spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said at the time. (The time was March 2006)

It was not a "fait accompli" of the Republicans, the Democrats worked with them.
 
APF said:
A series of studies came-out saying Obama was getting overwhelmingly-positive press, to the extent that it completely warped balanced news coverage between the parties, let alone between the Democratic candidates? Then Obama became the frontrunner and to continue to do so would be incredibly embarrassing for the press?

Well, first off you are mischaracterizing the study. What it said was that, during a certain time period, around 80% of Obama's news stories were positive whereas only 50% of Clinton news stories were positive (on NETWORK TELEVISION). It said nothing about "completely warped balanced news coverage btwn parties blah blah blah." Secondly, you have to take into consideration a few things: 1. This was during the South Carolina, "Is Bill Clinton/The Clinton Campaign using racial innuendos/coded racist language"/ "MLK needed LBJ" etc... which was not a good time for the Clintons, so of course the news coverage would reflect that. 2. She was the frontrunner, her campaign had a lot of other faux pas (the Iowa chair getting fired for Muslim smear, etc.) so come on now.

APF said:
Tell me where Hillary says, "vote for me because I'm a woman."

Well, obviously she isn't going to say it that blatantly (though she came pretty damn close in the latest debate, "A woman would really change the way things are run" or something to that effect). She uses implications, innuendos, and gendered language. "Clean Up the Whitehouse"... "I'm Your Girl", etc. Hillary is a very smart and shrewd woman, she knows exactly what she's saying and how it can be construed. And I don't blame her for using her gender, I mean DUH, but to deny that she's doing so is kind of silly.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Mostly the PEJ Invisible Primary one gets passed around a lot.


Incognito: I don't like caucuses and agree with Clinton's criticisms of them, even if it is obvious she's only making those criticisms because they're poison to her campaign.
 
APF said:
A series of studies came-out saying Obama was getting overwhelmingly-positive press, to the extent that it completely warped balanced news coverage between the parties, let alone between the Democratic candidates? Then Obama became the frontrunner and to continue to do so would be incredibly embarrassing for the press?


Tell me where Hillary says, "vote for me because I'm a woman."



AdmiralViscen: agreed; I just wanted to point-out the hypocrisy in a group that constantly piles-on her and her supporters for "playing the gender card," but see nothing incongruous with their using the race of their candidate as a political talking-point.


Hilary does it all the time you can try to ignore it if you want, but anyone that has been paying attention sees that she does it all the time. She'll never say it in those direct words, but she does say it.

The media bias thing started not due to any nonsense studies. It came from Hilary looking for an excuse for why she was losing and begun blaming the media. Bill Clinton was even blaming the media for MISQUOTING him awhile back. He said clear as day "Well Jessie Jackson won south carolina twice" and made a number of other statements like "It's the obama campaign that is injecting race into this campaign not us" all the media ever did was quote him directly and he was being held to what he said.

Suddenly Hilary is now lately even using the fact that Obama has had more money to spend than her campaign prior to texas and ohio as a sign that she is helpless and needs help. She's trying to portray him as the big bad man with all this money available to buy an election and she's been using the simple fact that Obama has simply managed his campaign better as a negative against Obama him.

She's playing the victim all over the place and what is said is that it is working to say otherwise would be completely dishonest. She even did it at the very beginning of the MSNBC debate like why am I always the first to get questions and such. She's trying hard to play the victim. She even said the lines that they should try to elect the first women president in that very debate.

For someone that is suppose to represent a woman's first historic step into a position we've never had the opportunity to ever see a woman in and she's embarrassing women everywhere, by playing to the VERY stereotypes that suggest she is the woman trying to get by in a man's world and everyone is being unfair to her. She should be ashamed of herself. She of all people shouldn't be trying to play the victim being in the position she's in and seeing crap like that shows me she wouldn't be a strong President because it takes TRUE weakness to revert to these desperate tactics. If you're going to go all out in a dirty campaign by all means do so. I may not respect it, but I respect her even less for attempting to play the victim role as if she could ever possibly have it harder than an african american man in this country running for President.

I don't mean to sound bias, but don't we ALL know who has the much more difficult road and challenges of the 2 candidates? Don't we know who has truly had to walk the finest of lines in this campaign for fear that all their support would disappear in the blink of an eye? Obama as an African American man has always had to be very careful about what he says and how he says it moreso than hilary has had to because it's truly a much tougher challenge that he is faced with. That much shouldn't be in question.

What I like though is that Obama hasn't attempted to use his skin color to help get him votes by playing to a certain stereotype in order to get pity votes. That is what Hilary is doing. Obama simply just has more class than she does. That much really isn't in question. In Obama's case however had he tried to play to a stereotype that he as a black man is being looked down upon or treated unfairly that wouldn't have led to more votes. It would've led to LESS votes especially among african americans because we don't respect that. Hilary should be ashamed of herself.
 

J.ceaz

Member
I find it funny that APF sees someone stating that there have been only 3 black state senators throughout US history as playing the race card but fails to see any of hillary's quotes as the gender card. Interesting...
 

APF

Member
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304&k=5083


Star Power said:
Well, first off you are mischaracterizing the poll. What it said was that, during a certain time period, around 80% of Obama's news stories were positive whereas only 50% of Clinton news stories were positive (on NETWORK TELEVISION). It said nothing about "completely warped balanced news coverage btwn parties blah blah blah."
No, *I* said that, and that conclusion is borne out by the data within the study. Understand how that works? *You* however mischaracterize the poll by suggesting Obama only gets distorted / unbalanced coverage on network television, and not, well, ALMOST EVERYWHERE EXCEPT FOX NEWS AND CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO excuse the caps.
 

APF

Member
Star Power said:
You could have worded that more clearly.


And good job completely ignoring everything else I said!
I added an edit and you may want to rant at me after. Also, you answered my question: she doesn't.


CowboyAstronaut: Thanks for playing the race card to reinforce my point.
 
CowboyAstronaut said:
How do you think this whole media bias crap was started? She helped start it that is why SNL did that skit. It isn't because of anything they noticed in the media. It is because Hilary started complaining about it so they decided they could make something cool out of it and make a big political statement at the same time.

She specifically complained about the horrible media bias before the 1st SNL skit?

I don't recall that. You have a link?
 

AmishNazi

Banned
APF said:
I added an edit and you may want to rant at me after. Also, you answered my question: she doesn't.


CowboyAstronaut: Thanks for playing the race card to reinforce my point.


Does somebody really need to search every time you brought out the sexist card?
 

CoolTrick

Banned
The obama dick sucking is reaching epic levels here. Do you people go to sleep?

Seriously, the sheer delusion has gotten fucking scary here. Many of these people have the audacity (of hope *snicker*) to quote Hillaryis44 when they are JUST as biased for Obama and ignore all logic and reasoning at times JUST THE SAME.
 
APF said:
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304&k=5083



No, *I* said that, and that conclusion is borne out by the data within the study. Understand how that works? *You* however mischaracterize the poll by suggesting Obama only gets distorted / unbalanced coverage on network television, and not, well, ALMOST EVERYWHERE EXCEPT FOX NEWS AND CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO excuse the caps.


I did not say that he only gets "distorted and unbalanced" coverage on network television, I said that the study that you are referencing to prove your point only refers to network television. So, again, you are mischaracterzing the study. Also, said study refers to a specific time-period, which I laid out for you in that answer you ignored, it was not a broad indictment of the biased media.


And yes, I did answer you question quite clearly : she does. You can ignore that if you want you, your prerogrative, but there is no denying it.
 

APF

Member
AmishNazi said:
Does somebody really need to search every time you brought out the sexist card?
My saying she's a victim of misogynistic attacks here is a red herring; first off, as others would say to distance Obama from comments here, I am not actually a member of her campaign.

Of course, some posters here *are* in fact members of the Obama campaign.

Just saying.


Star Power: I'm not talking about a poll, I'm talking about studies analyzing a variety of news media: print / television / network / cable / online.
 
CoolTrick said:
Seriously, the sheer delusion has gotten fucking scary here. Many of these people have the audacity (of hope *snicker*) to quote Hillaryis44 when they are JUST as biased for Obama and ignore all logic and reasoning at times JUST THE SAME.


I don't see how anything I said "ignores logic and reasoning".
 

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
CoolTrick said:
Seriously, the sheer delusion has gotten fucking scary here. Many of these people have the audacity (of hope *snicker*) to quote Hillaryis44 when they are JUST as biased for Obama and ignore all logic and reasoning at times JUST THE SAME.

It is too bad that things have gotten so far out of hand... I'm not trying to justify the actions of my fellow Obama folks, but, for me anyway, my attitude towards Hilary was much warmer before she went negative.

It would be nice if things could be more civil.
 
APF said:
Star Power: I'm not talking about a poll, I'm talking about studies analyzing a variety of news media: print / television / network / cable / online.

Yeah I mistyped, sorry. I meant "study" .. I've only heard of one study that said that Obama recieved more positive news coverage than Clinton..
 

AmishNazi

Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
this thread is pretty civil. i really dont see why people are complaining about it.

Think he's referring to the campaign. Hell the Republicans had a civil campaign this year. The fucking Republicans.
 

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
quadriplegicjon said:
this thread is pretty civil. i really dont see why people are complaining about it.

This is true... barring the 'Obama dick sucking' comments from the peanut gallery. I wasn't saying that this thread was uncivil at all... I do believe there too many 'fuck yous' thrown around in the last thread though.
 

APF

Member
Mandark: cut me some slack; by the time I have the emotional energy to find more acceptable propagandists, Obama will be President already.
 
Are you seiously going to just deny that she, on occasion, uses her gender? "I'm your girl"? "Clean Up the White House"? "I think having a woman in the White House would really change things?" Seriously man...
 

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
Star Power said:
Are you seiously going to just deny that she, on occasion, uses her gender? "I'm your girl"? "Clean Up the White House"? "I think having a woman in the White House would really change things?" Seriously man...

Definitely... there have been times in the debates when she brings up the historic nature of these two campaigns, and while she isn't coming right out and saying it, there is definitely an unspoken message going out to women that says "Vote for me so that you can have a woman in the White House." I don't feel like Obama has made his campaign about trying to become the first black president, and I wouldn't like it if he did.
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
CoolTrick said:
Seriously, the sheer delusion has gotten fucking scary here. Many of these people have the audacity (of hope *snicker*) to quote Hillaryis44 when they are JUST as biased for Obama and ignore all logic and reasoning at times JUST THE SAME.

Then stop entering these threads? Seriously. 95% of your posts are comprised solely of 'LOL LOOK AT ALL THE OBAMA FANBOYS/ LOL HOPE AND CHANGE/ LOL SHEEP/ LOL OBAMA DICK SUCKING.

If you have nothing to contribute, go away. If you want majority Hillary support, I'm sure there's other places you can frequent. People here have stated their case about why they prefer him as a candidate. You don't agree, fine. You seem utterly unable to articulate a mature argument. Stop spamming the threads with your trash.
 

CoolTrick

Banned
I realize I'm mostly preaching to the converted here, but I thought this article did a nice job of summing up the current situation and how Obama pretty well has the nomination wrapped up.

Do you only read pro-Obama "He'll win cause he has the delegates" articles?

March 07, 2008
Obama is Weak in Key Gen. Election States
By Steven Stark


Two weeks ago we noted that, in spite of all the press hype promoting Barack Obama, the Democrats were only two steps away from chaos in their nomination process.

Now make that one step.

An Obama sweep this past Tuesday was probably never in the cards, given Hillary Clinton's strength among working-class voters and Hispanics, which she's had virtually all along. But a Clinton sweep of Texas and Ohio is something the media did not prepare for, as they ignored the evidence staring them in the face and essentially drove Obama around the track for a victory lap before the race had ever taken place.

Now the party has a huge problem. Sure, Obama has a narrow lead among elected delegates -- a margin he's likely to hold after the run of primaries ends in June. And, on paper, he's still the current favorite to win the nomination in August.

But if Obama emerges as the nominee, it's now clear his campaign is headed into the autumn homestretch with some enormous holes.

Foremost among them is that Obama has yet to win a major state other than his own (Illinois) because he's still having trouble appealing to both Hispanics and working-class Democrats --those so-called Reagan Democrats. As early as this past November, the Pew Forum was picking up signs in its polls that Obama was running significantly worse among Catholics than he was among virtually any other demographic group in the electorate.

That's still true. Unfortunately for Obama, Hispanics and working-class voters are two groups with some affinity for John McCain. In recent head-to-head polls, for example, McCain handily beat Obama by double digits in Florida -- a state once considered a key toss-up. In another poll, the presumed GOP nominee is slightly ahead of Obama in New Jersey, a blue state in which John Kerry defeated George Bush by seven percentage points in 2004.

Color by numbers

These are worrying signs for the Democrats, should Obama be the nominee, especially now that it appears the Obama-Clinton contest could drag on for months, further weakening whoever emerges as the Democratic candidate. Michael Barone, the ace principal author of The Almanac of American Politics, recently wrote that an Obama-McCain race would redraw the red-state-blue-state map of the past few elections. But a more accurate analysis is that while McCain would be competitive in many states -- even California -- once considered safely Democratic, it's hard to see as many comparable states where Obama might do the same.

In addition to California, McCain has a reasonable shot at winning blue states Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and maybe even Wisconsin and Michigan, not to mention the key swing state of Ohio. Obama, on the other hand, has a shot at red states New Mexico, Iowa, Missouri, Nevada, and Virginia. McCain has the better hand to play.

This general-election weakness for Obama is sure to be an argument pressed by the Clinton forces in the days ahead. True, she probably wouldn't have a chance in any of the red states that Obama might contest, either. But in her favor is the fact that, while her appeal to Independents is limited, she'd be far likelier to run stronger against McCain in Ohio, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and California.

The obvious problem now is that the longer the two front-runners engage each other, the less time either has to shore up weaknesses before the fall campaign. With the news that Florida governor Charlie Crist will consider allowing Democrats to restage their primary, this is now a process that could go into July without a clear winner. The few upcoming large states -- Pennsylvania and, now, maybe Florida -- favor Clinton. The longer Obama remains subject to attack by his opponent and a press anxious to repent (once again) for having gotten it all wrong, the weaker he will become. And once the primaries end, no one will have a clear majority, meaning there could well be a fierce contest for the superdelegates, triggering a contentious party civil war. McCain is thanking his lucky stars.
 

Deku

Banned
Amir0x said:
The only thing that would make this night "exciting" is if Hillary won it, upsetting the expectations, and that would just about guarantee the country/momentum has fully shifted.

It's good to air the worse case, let's hope you didnt jinx anything there.
 

ari

Banned
XxenobladerxX said:
Meh,if you dont like it,then dont enter the thread. : /
Isn't that the problem?

Don't you find it funny that its only you guys arguing with one brave hillary supporter at a time? You fuckers always hijack these threads and turn everyone off thats remotely interested in having a discussion about political news. I'm included, I rarely ever post in the primary threads because of the constant hillary bitching, it is getting so fucking annoying. Even when mccain was still in the primary i couldn't even show my support because of it. Frankly, apart from obama supporters, people tend to not post here because they'll get flamed by the hundreds and/or knows that they're so outnumbered that they just forget about it when they want to defend their candidate.
 
ari said:
Isn't that the problem?

Don't you find it funny that its only you guys arguing with one brave hillary supporter at a time? You fuckers always hijack these threads and turn everyone off thats remotely interested in having a discussion about political news. I'm included, I rarely ever post in the primary threads because of the constant hillary bitching, it is getting so fucking annoying. Even when mccain was still in the primary i couldn't even show my support because of it. Frankly, apart from obama supporters, people tend to not post here because they'll get flamed by the hundreds and/or knows that they're so outnumbered that they just forget about it when they want to defend their candidate.


Who is bitching (besides you)? We are having a PEACEFUL ARGUMENT.
 
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