From what I can tell from his most recent tweets, Kodakas already looking for somebody to fill his role. Im curious to see if a series as crazy as DR will work with somebody other than Kodaka at the helm.
From what I can tell from his most recent tweets, Kodakas already looking for somebody to fill his role. Im curious to see if a series as crazy as DR will work with somebody other than Kodaka at the helm.
I suppose thats the other point of the ending, the actual meta point. I completely agree that the Danganronpa fiction within a fiction lost its purpose for the audience (clearly inside the game and sorta in our world) and the series became a brutal spectacle for the sake of it. I suppose that is part of the reason why Kodaka felt the need to go this route with the V3 ending, to take a stand in this matter as you say. I wonder if he felt that theres nothing else he could do as a creator with DR and decided to give it a send off in his terms.
The problem with the twist is that there was no hints for it from what I can tell.
Anyone notice anything that hinted to the twist?
The problem with the twist is that there was no hints for it from what I can tell.
Anyone notice anything that hinted to the twist?
I've been thinking about "willing participates vs kidnapped victims" angle for a while now, and something just doesn't add up. The game makes it ambiguous as to whether or not they were willing participants, but if we assume they were kidnapped, then why do Kaede and Shuichi introduce themselves using fake names?
It's also not that ambiguous. The prologue and the flashback in chapter 6 don't line up at all.
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But also, if they willingly signed up they should be aware / excited about being in DR during the prologue, but they aren't, so it's clear the "we were selected?" sequence is a fabrication.
It's a shame since I'm really enamored with the idea that they willingly signed up to DR.
I actually predicted the fake memories thing when the prologue was wrapping up. What tipped me off were two things: Kaede's clothes being literally IMPRINTED with symbols related to her talent, and the Monokubs telling them that the Ultimates forgot their talents, which I ousted as a probable lie since I made it my personal creed to doubt whatever Monokuma and his associates have to say.The problem with the twist is that there was no hints for it from what I can tell.
Anyone notice anything that hinted to the twist?
The problem with the twist is that there was no hints for it from what I can tell.
Anyone notice anything that hinted to the twist?
It could be those memories in Trial 6 are them entering the school, whereas the prologue is a botched start of the game.
I don't think it's quite gotten to that point IRL, but it's more or less that Kodaka see's this as the road before him if they really *don't* stop making DR. Though I do think this more or less confirms that DR3 was written by Kodaka at gunpoint; besides a couple flourishes its very clear hist heart isn't in it.
Like I said I can buy into the idea that these 'season' is purposefully a ramshackle affair; as a friend said it's like a show that's several seasons removed from its prime. Monokumas general disinterest, Tsumugi having to intervene, the hokey backstory that lamely tries to tie into the original games... it's all symptomatic of a series that's continuing for the mere sake of continuing.
It's a shame since I'm really enamored with the idea that they willingly signed up to DR.
It could be those memories in Trial 6 are them entering the school, whereas the prologue is a botched start of the game.
Rather than a "botched" start, I think it is a intentional part of the "show" that Team DR created. The first prologue is meant to confuse players/audience and create intrigue, while the second prologue is the franchise-standard beginning that lays the foundation of the participants' understanding of the Killing Game.What makes the prologue a botched start of the game? If we assume the chapter 6 memories + audition tapes are real, then the entire prologue must have been faked. But for what purpose? The prologue gets wiped from their brains anyway, what would be the point if wiping their memory twice? In order for the audition tapes to be real:
DR Participants receive their new clothes and remark about how happy they are to have been selected -----> memory wiped -----> Prologue ------> express confusion about being kidnapped----> memory wipe a second time -----> Chapter 1
No matter how I think it over, the intent was to have those audition tapes be fake and that Team DanganRonpa kidnapped these kids against their own free will. Which kind of... disappoints me.
That's why I thought the whole affair was a criticism to the "writers as cogs in the machine" that pervades several media. That excuse for a backstory that was given to the participants of the game was clearly bottom of the barrel, and at first glance came as phony - it only makes sense as commentary when taking the ending in consideration. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but it seems to me that Kodaka felt that thought school was encroaching in the Danganronpa production process and as a creative decided to finish his participation in his terms while giving his blessing for anyone to make their own take on the IP.
I wonder why Kodaka left this unclear. There's a definite contrast between the mood that exudes from the actual prologue and the extended version of the gym scene. I agree with the possibility that what we saw there was a botched start of the killing game, as the Monokids comments about missing memories may make sense that way and the fanaticism criticism still works.
Only Kodaka may clear that, but I don't think he will.
My question is where the hell could Spike Chunsoft take this series? Kodaka has basically salted the earth with them doing another killing game game, and it's sort of taken the piss out of doing anything related to Hope's Peak/Junko Enoshima/Hope v. Despair setting as well. What can you do when both the Gameplay and Setting your series is known for are both severely undercut?
My question is where the hell could Spike Chunsoft take this series? Kodaka has basically salted the earth with them doing another killing game game, and it's sort of taken the piss out of doing anything related to Hope's Peak/Junko Enoshima/Hope v. Despair setting as well. What can you do when both the Gameplay and Setting your series is known for are both severely undercut?
Hmm, good points all around
I really like them being willing participants, so i'll stick with that as my truth. That was clearly their intention after all.
That's a good question, and may be something Spike Chunsoft is still mulling over. The executive team had to know what Kodaka was trying to do before greenlighting this game, so the company may have a plan for this IP for the short- and middle-term. My thoughts on this matter is that they may leave the main series rest for a while and focus on making spin-offs what rely on the strengths and previous story of the franchise - the optics of making that considering this ending be damned. Having a series with an iconic mascot like Monokuma in gaming's current environment is an advantage they (IMO) wouldn't be willing to give up.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kodaka is involved in this process.
My question is where the hell could Spike Chunsoft take this series? Kodaka has basically salted the earth with them doing another killing game game, and it's sort of taken the piss out of doing anything related to Hope's Peak/Junko Enoshima/Hope v. Despair setting as well. What can you do when both the Gameplay and Setting your series is known for are both severely undercut?
Did they have their memories wiped by the time of the prologue? Kaede and Rantaro seems to have some memories of the killing games, but they still use their fictional names.
I guess my issue is what stories could there possibly be left to tell in the current setting? As bland as it was, DR3 pretty much wrapped up the Hope's Peak saga. God that was such a disappointing show.
Did they have their memories wiped by the time of the prologue? Kaede and Rantaro seems to have some memories of the killing games, but they still use their fictional names.
Kaede AND Rantaro use fictional names?
...What?
Am I missing something here? I caught the Makoto/Shuichi parallel, but what is this about Kaede and Rantaro???
I assumed that they had their memories wiped, but the Monokubs messed it up (not sure if the Monokubs being incompetent was part of the script or that's just how they were), and didn't implant their memories correctly (the cast only knowing their names, but not their talents). Some of the cast also seems to know about the killing game. I'm guessing being kidnapped is a part of the selection process and they don't tell the participants that they were chosen at first. Also, it's possible that the names they have (except for Keebo) are their actual names, I don't think this is ever stated or not in DRv3, so it's possible. After that, the kubs rewipe their memories and we get the first part of the games.
In chapter 6 we see that the cast reacts favorably when told that they're part of the killing game for the first time after receiving their costumes. It's possible this happened in the prologue, but the prologue cuts off right before this happens (kinda lazy writing, but I could see this happening).
It's also possible the entire prologue was on purpose and it was just Team DR's fucked up way of announcing to the contestants that they were chosen. They then proceed to reboot their memories and start the actual game.
Yeah, the current setting is more than likely done for. A shame really, I still hate that horrid resolution with Side Hope: DR3.
Honestly I hope so too. The fact that they wanted to put the DR3 characters in the finale as Tsumugi cosplay really makes me wonder, though.But overall I kind of *hope* the anime was written at gunpoint, because it was so lackluster overall I really can't see Kodaka being *proud* with how it turned out.
What frustrates me is it seemed to have the potential to be cool. Future always seemed a bit suspect, what with introducing all those new characters (and indeed that went over flaccidly in the end) but I'd thought the Despair side of things would give a unique insight into the interplay of the 77th Class and how they all were seduced to despair. But Nope! As soon as Hajime becomes Izuru it's all downhill with mediocre reveal after mediocre reveal.
I've actually never had an issue with Junko up until this series, but here I found her kind of insufferable with how she simply god mods everything because... she wants to destroy the school's harmony? Part of Junko's appeal is her inscrutability to an extent, but between DR2 and DR0 they sort of built up some sort of sense of why Junko is the way she is (Ultimate Analyst -> Fatalistic Determinism about Existence -> Sadistic Nihilism) which DR3 more or less ignores (I don't even think DR0 is possible within the time span Despair Arc sets) but neither is she treated as a force of nature... she's just a very underwhelming, contrived prescense in the series, and the same goes doubly for animator dude. The fall of the 77th Class? Mind-Altering Anime. The entire fucking tragedy? Mind-altering anime. Goddamn, it's like the lamest thing they could've possibly gone with.
And it hurts because there are some fun bits in it, like the video game club Chiaki helps establish. But overall I kind of *hope* the anime was written at gunpoint, because it was so lackluster overall I really can't see Kodaka being *proud* with how it turned out.
The fake prologue was a big tell and by the Ultimate Maid motive reveal I was already sure that they weren't ultimates.The problem with the twist is that there was no hints for it from what I can tell.
Anyone notice anything that hinted to the twist?
I still contend that DR3 would have been better if they combined future and despair by putting focus on future so the new characters can actually get development and time to spend with them plus woth flashback from despair
Despair was such a waste of potential because of the episode count they rushed the development of dr2 cast and ruined dr2 with the extra information it's better to ignore it and focus on the games
Even the bad guys plan didn't need to be a killing game and I didn't really care for the characters since they don't get much development before dying or like confectioner girl was just nothingI think setting it up as a killing game was a bad idea; they probably also should've limited the new characters to like 3-5 as to give everyone more room to breathe.
Even the bad guys plan didn't need to be a killing game and I didn't really care for the characters since they don't get much development before dying or like confectioner girl was just nothing
Y'know there's a sorta tragic realization in Miu's love hotel event which - along with just about her entire character - while played for laughs, shows that she has a seemingly horrible case of abandonment issues. She's like Mikan but worse. It seems she's gone through all her life being bullied and has developed a much more believable psychological complex out of it, where she's aggressive but weak-willed. Even her overly sexual nature could be an extension of that; she's undeniably attractive and probably only finds self-worth in that fact (particularly since she doesn't like her own inventions), and since she gets insulted so much she probably only enjoys sexually derogatory terms because to her they're like an acknowledgement of her own self-perceived strengths rather than a direct attack on her character. That's just brutal.
I think everyone agrees that the motivation for the killing game in DR3 was absolute trash. I'd have liked to see an easter egg dealing with its reception in the comments of the audience, in a manner similar to the white noise concerning DR0 after AI Junko's appearance in the final trial of DR2.
I have a couple options:
1. Go meta-meta fiction and have V3 be a "fictitous game by an edgy writer" in a yet higher narrative universe.
2. Completely and utterly sever itself from the previous installments- drop the 6 chapter structure, drop the Ultimate HS Students setup, just have a bunch of people killing each other in an enclosed space and class trials (and, most likely, monokuma). V3 was exceedingly formulaic in the middle (CH2 features some sort of impulse/ease of access, CH3 double murder with the single most disproportionately characterized person as the killer, in CH4 the killer is relatable, etc.) but I'm not sure how much of that exactly was meant to give off the "reality show past its prime" vibe it was going for. So this might be exciting. I'd still be down day 1 for a gritty, grim, pale Danganronpa game like DR1's beta (DISTRUST).
3. Be a sequel to V3 that isn't called V4, and take place within the killing game obsessed outside world. After Shuichi's success in ending Danganronpa (hopefully), some people/ one madman gathers together a whole random bunch of people and forces them to play a Danganronpa-style killing game. It'd be an interesting meta-layer of narrative to have a cast that knows of V3's ending within the uniV3rse's outside world.
And, replaying the prologue, it seems that most characters have a very similar personality before getting the flashback light to after, and that's particularly true in miu's case, both in the way she talks and dresses. So, I get the impression that 90% of their memories in their free time events are true.
The theory that every character is just a perversely exaggerated identity of their own original character is one I've pretty much held onto since day one of beating the game. It doesn't make sense for someone like Kaede who according to her audition tape "has no faith in humanity", to help someone like Shuichi, a person she's just met. I think it's more so that unlike Ultimate!Kaede, regular Kaede is just a cynic/realist. The first thing she tells Shuichi to do is to shut up and get a hold of himself, which she does in a really demanding manner, but she apologizes not long after that, showing that there's a part of her that actually does care about people. In contrast, the first thing Ultimate!Kaede tries to do is immediately comfort Shuichi in a friendly manner. The one thing both Kaedes have in common is that they have no trouble being assertive, but Ultimate!Kaede plays up both her ability to be caring and brings a large side of flaws into the forefront with that.
It's kinda why I wish if V3 was going to deconstruct the Danganronpa formula, they'd have gone deeper into the entire concept of Ultimates and making a singular interest be the end-all, be-all to a character's identity. If Keebo was a human, he probably had a fascination with mechas or robots, maybe studying robotics science even. Maki might've had a weapons fixation. It would've been interesting to explore, and perfect for Kaede since she's the one character to have seen the biggest attitude change to the player, and she has a very throwaway "uninteresting" title in contrast to everyone else, especially Shuichi who ends up emboldening the DR concept.
I feel like it's one of the thing that was undermined with DR3 and why didn't care for it by having most non ultimate being faceless goons and mobs and being inconsequential and could have done more with thatI think though DR has always had a self-awareness about the pidgeonholing of people based on their talent; a lot of the time people's personalities or distinctive traits would happen to be completely unrelated to their talent. DR2 in particular deconstructed the idea of the fixation on the 'ultimate', so I dunno if there was much more to be said. Granted, I do think a bit more could've been said at the end about how intrinsically silly the Ultimate concept is.
The theory that every character is just a perversely exaggerated identity of their own original character is one I've pretty much held onto since day one of beating the game. It doesn't make sense for someone like Kaede who according to her audition tape "has no faith in humanity", to help someone like Shuichi, a person she's just met. I think it's more so that unlike Ultimate!Kaede, regular Kaede is just a cynic/realist. The first thing she tells Shuichi to do is to shut up and get a hold of himself, which she does in a really demanding manner, but she apologizes not long after that, showing that there's a part of her that actually does care about people. In contrast, the first thing Ultimate!Kaede tries to do is immediately comfort Shuichi in a friendly manner. The one thing both Kaedes have in common is that they have no trouble being assertive, but Ultimate!Kaede plays up both her ability to be caring and brings a large side of flaws into the forefront with that.
It's kinda why I wish if V3 was going to deconstruct the Danganronpa formula, they'd have gone deeper into the entire concept of Ultimates and making a singular interest be the end-all, be-all to a character's identity. If Keebo was a human, he probably had a fascination with mechas or robots, maybe studying robotics science even. Maki might've had a weapons fixation. It would've been interesting to explore, and perfect for Kaede since she's the one character to have seen the biggest attitude change to the player, and she has a very throwaway "uninteresting" title in contrast to everyone else, especially Shuichi who ends up emboldening the DR concept.
I just don't see why they would bleep out Shuichi's name in the audition tape when he is introducing himself if it wasn't to hide his real name.