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[Oriel]

If an independent Scotland becomes part of the EU, it will also join schengen. Which means a border between England and Scotland

Not necessarily. Given Scotland's status as an island nation with close ties with a non EU state it could obtain an opt out on Schengen membership. The EU is frequently flexible with members, as the bottomless well of asterix's in the Treaties prove.

 

[SKINNER!]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the death of the UK.

Better together they said. It'll secure our future they said. A Scotland in the United Kingdom will be the better option they said.


I hope all them No voters are satisfied with their vote right now. Pie, egg, pig shite is all over their faces now.

 

[Pankratous]

God I hope they vote to go independent and manage to get back into the EU, that would be bloody marvellous.

I think I'd listen to Flower of Scotland over and over until I died.

 

[MassiveNights]

Willie Rennie (Scottish Lib Dem leader) is on the news calling for a period of stability and saying Sturgeon is rushing in too quick.

 

[Pankratous]

Willie Rennie (Scottish Lib Dem leader) is on the news calling for a period of stability and saying Sturgeon is rushing in too quick.

I wouldn't say she is rushing at all. She stated up front in her own speech that before any action is taken we must have discussions with parliament, with the EU, with EU member states, etc. Rushing would be calling it tomorrow.

She's simply tempering expectations.

 

[Audioboxer]

Willie Rennie (Scottish Lib Dem leader) is on the news calling for a period of stability and saying Sturgeon is rushing in too quick.

Not really, the ball needs to get moving now just like the exit one will be for clarity within ~2 years. The media ask the SNP every time they see them about indyref2 for no reason at times, just think how much they'd ask now if she didn't get out in front and be open about it.

I mean what is there to wait on as well? The UK is leaving the EU, it's not as if we have to hold off another 6 months for the final result. It's done.

 

[jem0208]

Better together they said. It'll secure our future they said. A Scotland in the United Kingdom will be the better option they said.


I hope all them No voters are satisfied with their vote right now. Pie, egg, pig shite is all over their faces now.

To be fair to the no voters they didn't think the UK would be fucking idiotic enough to vote themselves out of the EU.

 

[Yasir]

Hope they get their independence.

I really do.

I'll even donate towards supporting it.

When the sky falls and the NHS cuwmbles. It's gonna be glorious to see how the oldies react.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Willie Rennie (Scottish Lib Dem leader) is on the news calling for a period of stability and saying Sturgeon is rushing in too quick.

He is a fucking tool, his party were one of the ones who convinced me staying in the UK would protect our EU membership, get him tae fuck.

 

[Audioboxer]

Hope they get their independence.

I really do.

I'll even donate towards supporting it.

When the sky falls and the NHS cuwmbles. It's gonna be glorious to see how the oldies react.

Bro, we dead in a few years ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Although if pensions get fucked up colossally, then yeah, watch the outcry then.

 

[AGoodODST]

Willie Rennie gave an interview during the Scottish election campaign where two pigs starting furiously fucking behind him.

That is all I can really say about Rennie. Guy is a fool.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Of course Scotland were voting. Scotland has it's own Parliament, and a LOT of the laws passed in Holyrood are actually tied back directly to Brussels / EU as opposed to Westminster.

You can't boil the 2014 Independence referendum being YES down to a 'we are the UK' when there was so much of the dialog was around remaining in the EU.

As per the SNP manifesto, the basis of which they were re-elected into Scottish Government,



Scotland is most definitely being taken out of the EU against it's will as it voted to remain, overwhelmingly.

I speak for myself here, but probably many others, but continued EU membership and the uncertaintly of what would happen to an Independent Scotland in terms of the EU was a major, if not THE major reason for many people to vote NO, because continued membership of the EU seemed much more secure at the time being part of the UK.

How wrong we were.

As per my OP in this thread, what is wrong with waiting a few years after UK has left the EU and seeing how both the UK and EU are doing so can make an informed decision what is best for Scotland.

...instead of 9 hours after the Leave referendum has ended where people have no clue of the future and are screaming "The sky is falling".

For all the talk from Remainers about Leave voters being ignorant, it seems astonishing that Scots (majority Remain) want a fast second referendum asap where everyone will truly be ignorant if it is for the best or not.

It actually seems more like wanna do it now because they fear the possibility things mights actually be OK once people calm down and actually get to experience what a UK out of EU is like.

If it isn't good in say...7 years, hold a second referendum then.

 

[Yasir]

Bro, we dead in a few years ¯_(&#12484_/¯

Although if pensions get fucked up colossally, then yeah, watch the outcry then.

Selfish.

Hope they don't expect the Romanian family next door to be gone by tomorrow.

 

[Audioboxer]

Willie Rennie gave an interview during the Scottish election campaign where two pigs starting furiously fucking behind him.

That is all I can really say about Rennie. Guy is a fool.

Seriously? How on earth did I miss that/forgot about it?!

lol.

 

[GSG Flash]

It's clear that Scotland's political ambitions don't align with the rest of the UK's, I think independence would be the best course of action for Scotland.

 

[Maledict]

The desire for a referendum isn't entirely based on cold, logical balancing of outcomes. It's based on the fact that people feel their future has been stolen - that yesterday, they were a part of Europe and today they aren't. That the future we were promised has been irrevocably taken from us. That a decision of immense magnitude was taken based on lies and racism. That people who are nothing like us get to decide what happens to us, in a way that goes far beyond any general election.

Lie I've said, I think the legal aspects of a referendum are very tricky to say the least, and that this vote is the unfortunate effect of democracy - but I absolutely understand why Scotland would want another referendum, and this time around I'll be hoping they vote yes. My fiancé is Scottish so we're already looking at moving back.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Willie Rennie (Scottish Lib Dem leader) is on the news calling for a period of stability and saying Sturgeon is rushing in too quick.

Is the smart thing to do.

 

[AGoodODST]

Seriously? How on earth did I miss that/forgot about it?!

lol.

Enjoy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OgSQ47iNJ3U

 

[nOoblet16]

If an independent Scotland becomes part of the EU, it will also join schengen. Which means a border between England and Scotland

If Scotland goes independent and joins EU, there will be a border between England and Scotland regardless of it joining Schengen or not.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

If it isn't good in say...7 years, hold a second referendum then.

That's still 7-9 years of Scotland's economy possibly being fucked in the arse because of England's stupid decision. Plus up to 10 years of waiting for the EU to accept them because Spain will stall because they don't want to give the Basque regions any ideas about independence.

I wouldn't wait that long if I were Scotland. I'd get the referendum done before the end of this year.

 

[Maledict]

That's still 7-9 years of Scotland's economy possibly being fucked in the arse because of England's stupid decision. Plus up to 10 years of waiting for the EU to accept them because Spain will stall because they don't want to give the Basque regions any ideas about independence.

I wouldn't wait that long if I were Scotland. I'd get the referendum done before the end of this year.

No way it will happen before the UK leaves. Any referendum only has legal power if Westminster agrees, and they won't do that at all. A referendum without Westminster isn't in anyway legally binding, and the EU wouldn't act on it (nor would any country on earth except maybe Russia!).

Scotland's best chance is a general election with a weak labour victory, and they promise independence in return for support to stay in the EU.

 

[nOoblet16]

Scotland were not voting. The UK was, which Scotland previously voted to stay a part of.

Trying have your cake and eat it there. Don't get to say "Yes we are the UK" then when UK makes a decision say "No we are Scotland".

Scots decided to remain in UK because they were told it'd be harder for them to join the EU if they left...and now UK leaves.

Scots always identified themselves as Scots and it is a country in its own, this isn't something that happened this morning.

 

[SKINNER!]

To be fair to the no voters they didn't think the UK would be fucking idiotic enough to vote themselves out of the EU.

Perhaps...Nobody could've predicted it but all the fear mongering about uncertainty in an independent Scotland were conducted by pro-union politicians who promised security in the future. Promised that choosing "No" would be the right call. Sadly, "No" voters fell for it hook, line and sinker. Would the situation in Scotland today be different if we were independent? Who knows! It could've been far worse. Thing is, we would've at least been still in the EU. Either by default or through registering for a membership. That is 100% certain.

Oh well, never mind. Cameron is washing his hands clean from it all and walking away from it all anyway.

 

[Audioboxer]

Enjoy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OgSQ47iNJ3U

lmao, I vaguely remember it now.... Guess it's all linked with Cameron in some way ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Stallion Dan]

That's still 7-9 years of Scotland's economy possibly being fucked in the arse because of England's stupid decision. Plus up to 10 years of waiting for the EU to accept them because Spain will stall because they don't want to give the Basque regions any ideas about independence.

I wouldn't wait that long if I were Scotland. I'd get the referendum done before the end of this year.

And if other countries start leaving EU? Why would still want to join it? Risk getting more fucked by leaving UK asap instead of looking before leaping.

 

[AGoodODST]

lmao, I vaguely remember it now.... Guess it's all linked with Cameron in some way ¯_(&#12484_/¯

I'm sure Cameron has the interview recorded on his Sky box for the days when Samantha goes to bed early.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm sure Cameron has the interview recorded on his Sky box for the days when Samantha goes to bed early.

Savage.

 

[Stumpokapow]

And if other countries start leaving EU? Why would still want to join it? Risk getting more fucked by leaving UK asap instead of looking before leaping.

Yes, definitely, no one sane would risk leaving a peaceful union of countries on a whim with no thought towards what would happen in the future.

 

[KingSnake]

Is the smart thing to do.

Are you from Scotland?

Yes, definitely, no one sane would risk leaving a peaceful union of countries on a whim with no thought towards what would happen in the future.

Lol.

 

[AuthenticM]

Go Scotland Go!!!

 

[maquiladora]

Yes, definitely, no one sane would risk leaving a peaceful union of countries on a whim with no thought towards what would happen in the future.

Savage

 

[Stallion Dan]

Yes, definitely, no one sane would risk leaving a peaceful union of countries on a whim with no thought towards what would happen in the future.

We've been living the EU situation for a long time, we knew where it was headed on Thursday, unlike anyone does right now.

 

[Audioboxer]

Yes, definitely, no one sane would risk leaving a peaceful union of countries on a whim with no thought towards what would happen in the future.

 

[Geist-]

The last year has been a fucking roller coaster. First I was all for Scotland staying with the UK. A few days ago I was all for the UK staying with the EU. Now I'm for Scotland leaving the UK. What a crazy time to be alive.

 

[whyamihere]

David Cameron is going to go down in history as the man who destroyed the UK.

 

[Audioboxer]

David Cameron is going to go down in history as the man who destroyed the UK.

And fucked a pig.

 

[*Splinter]

So... if Scotland voted to leave the UK, would that be a big enough change for the UK to have a second referendum on Europe?

 

[Pankratous]

So... if Scotland voted to leave the UK, would that be a big enough change for the UK to have a second referendum on Europe?

No, because the vast majority of England voted to leave.

 

[*Splinter]

No, because the vast majority of England voted to leave.

They voted to leave the EU, but they didn't vote to break up the UK - and had no say in that decision

 

[Audioboxer]

They voted to leave the EU, but they didn't vote to break up the UK - and had no say in that decision

Scotlands ref proposal was mentioned prior to this EU ref so if the bigger worry was breaking up the UK the votes would have reflected that. Quite the opposite though, knowing Scotland/the SNP would go after another referendum didn't cause people to be put off voting to leave the EU.

You can't have both things, or more so, accepted that you might not have both things if you want to leave the EU. To force us to stay in the UK is like you being forced to stay in the EU after the country voted leave. Our country voted remain, so we deserve to be able to try and preserve that.

It's more a case of English anti-Scottish Independence folks wanting to have it their way and force Scotland along regardless of what Scotland wants. Not happening anymore.

 

[MassiveNights]

They voted to leave the EU, but they didn't vote to break up the UK - and had no say in that decision

The only reason there's progression on a 2nd Scottish Referendum is because EU membership was a massive part of the initial debate two years ago.

The SNP also had in their manifesto this May that if Scotland voted to Remain and the rest of the UK voted to leave they would have the right to hold another, they won the election.

The question of Scottish independence had little to do with England and Wales voting to leave the EU so it wouldn't make sense that if Scotland went independent that there would be a second EU referendum.

 

[2700]

Not sure how this will play out, a unilateral declaration of succession through a non-legally binding referendum will not go down well with EU member states. It sets a dangerous precedent for countries such as France and Spain.

Not only that but Scotland voting for independence would mean they remove themselves from a FTA agreement with their largest trading partner to join a union that will no longer have that agreement in place.

Scotland joining the EU would cause a lot of headaches for the UK withdrawal negotiations.

 

[KingSnake]

They voted to leave the EU, but they didn't vote to break up the UK - and had no say in that decision

They actually did. Scotland leaving UK was one of the assumed effects of the Leave. But Leave doesn't care about the effects, so that's that.

 

[Audioboxer]

Limmy was quite on point lol

Scottish comedian Limmy has been hailed as the “messiah” after perfectly predicting the results of the EU Referendum.

Limmy tweeted on Wednesday morning – the day before polls opened – stating that 62% of Scotland would vote to ‘Remain’ in Europe, but that 52% of the UK would vote to leave.

The comedian, who rose to fame through his podcast, Limmy’s World of Glasgow, made the prediction as part of a 24-point forecast on Wednesday morning.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2016/06/24/comedian-limmy-perfectly-predicts-brexit-results/

 

[Pankratous]

God damn Limmy.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Let's go for it. We were told by those Tory arseholes that we were better together and going alone was dangerous, now those idiots have torn us out of the EU they don't have an argument.

If an independent Scotland becomes part of the EU, it will also join schengen. Which means a border between England and Scotland

I think we have to see what's going to happen with the Ireland 1st. Putting up border controls there during peace time seems insane, but what ever happens there will probhave to happen with an independent Scotland and England.

 

[BadHand]

If Scotland goes independent and joins EU, there will be a border between England and Scotland regardless of it joining Schengen or not.

I disagree. Scotland and England could easily set-up shared border controls (a schengen-like agreement).

The EU tend to push for full membership, anyhow.

 

[Ravensmash]

They voted to leave the EU, but they didn't vote to break up the UK - and had no say in that decision

This is merely a potential repercussion of the vote's result.

People have to deal with the consequences be they good or bad.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

One thing probably glossed a fair bit over in Sturgeon's excellent speech due to the 2nd ref question is her astute observations as to why England voted to leave the EU:-

But this vote wasn't just about the EU - it was also a clear expression of the disaffection with the political system that is felt in too many communities.

Communities taken for granted by Labour for generations and punished with austerity cuts by the Tories for a financial crisis they didn't cause, used this referendum to make their voices heard.

I don't think that all the folks in England that voted to leave are necessarily bigots and xenophobes, but instead as Sturgeon has noted, they saw a chance to affect change (even if that change is counter to their interests) and took it. Maybe it is patronising to call this a protest vote as oppose to looking at the key question of the EU, but the alternative is a bleak thought indeed.

As a Scot who has at least seen devolution and a Scottish Parliament form, I can say I have seen progress of a form, what has England outside London seen for the last 20 years? An inept Labour and almost a total feeling of being unrepresented and dissatisfaction, that has been growing and growing.

What I really don't get is why people in England, specially the traditional Labour heartlands like the North and Midlans think that Boris, Gove and Co are going to have their interests at heart moving forward. The Tory right-wing does not have the best interests of the rest of England at heart IMO.

 

[Audioboxer]

One thing probably glossed a fair bit over in Sturgeon's excellent speech due to the 2nd ref question is her astute observations as to why England voted to leave the EU:-



I don't think that all the folks in England that voted to leave are necessarily bigots and xenophobes, but instead as Sturgeon has noted, they saw a chance to affect change (even if that change is counter to their interests) and took it. Maybe it is patronising to call this a protest vote as oppose to looking at the key question of the EU, but the alternative is a bleak thought indeed.

As a Scot who has at least seen devolution and a Scottish Parliament form, I can say I have seen progress of a form, what has England outside London seen for the last 20 years? An inept Labour and almost a total feeling of being unrepresented and dissatisfaction, that has been growing and growing.

What I really don't get is why people in England, specially the traditional Labour heartlands like the North and Midlans think that Boris, Gove and Co are going to have their interests at heart moving forward. The Tory right-wing does not have the best interests of the rest of England at heart IMO.

Yeah she is a great speaker, whether you like her or not. Faaaar better than Salmond. He is only good for the occasional one liner remark now and then for a cheap laugh. So better off as an MP, as he does honestly have some good thoughts on policy outwith his arrogance/smugness.

Sturgeon actually has decent leadership qualities, and one of the big ones being compassion. I think most of her hate is just for being pro-independence and very interested in Scotland first. Hopefully some of the English can actually see why now, outside of the blind "Nationalist!" hate. How could you not empathise with Scotland being dragged out by England (and Wales...) over a 100% country remain average, and the fact we went through a first referendum sold promises on a vow and pro-EU stance? English voters would be pissed at the SNP if it were the other way around, just like Scots are pissed at the Torries.

It's not the English people we hate, it's the English/London political system. Mostly the fear mongering and biggoted campaigning. Which you guys have had to live through during this EU ref, and understandably hate as well. We are trying to escape it though and while it might hurt a bit to see part of the UK leaving and getting free of it, please don't try and hold us back out of twisted feelings that we are "just" wanting to break up the UK.