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Nintendo full year financial results [23.2B yen loss, 3.6M Wii U/12M 3DS forecast]
- Thread starter zomgbbqftw
- Start date
shinra-bansho
Member
Their 3DS forecast doesn't really seem realistic. They failed to reach 12M for the previous fiscal year, I don't know what type foul sorcery they intend to reach it this one. The system is down almost 50% YTD in Japan (more than 50% in the period falling in the new fiscal year) and has been down on average 20% Y/Y in NPD.
unless they do have a revision planned later this year
But Rhythm Tengoku games are better with buttons.
These predictions are very sobering to read. Here's hoping they have a plan for the next couple of years that isn't solely QoL. I don't think they're nearly as bad off as some claim in this thread, but they're in quite rough shape. I almost expect a handheld revision at E3. We'll see on software considering we've seen a fair amount of trademarks being claimed recently.
Congrats for being 1 of maybe 6 people that would do so.
Congrats for being 1 of maybe 6 people that would do so.
Graphics Horse
Member
They reached 12.24m. But yeah, the sales in their strongest market are almost halved from what they were last year so it's not looking realistic to do 12m again.
It wouldn't lead to a gaming crash, because these are by no means all the parties involved in gaming - if they disappeared tomorrow there would be a short-term crunch, but it wouldn't affect mobile, or PC, or the thriving market in used 7th-gen.
It wouldn't even lead to a console gaming crash, simply because it's external rather than internal - Sony did miserably at the beginning of last gen, but overall sales were even because the money was shifted over to Xboxes and Wiis rather than leaving the ecosystem. Nintendo's doing miserably now, but overall sales are up, up, up because Microsoft had an excellent launch before falling back to mediocre and Sony is still doing amazeballs.
If MS pulls out, Playstation will be able to carry even more of the rest of Sony on its back while we wait for the 40-50 year capacity overinvestments made in the 1980s to be wound down.
If Sony collapses (which is pretty unlikely - they're not what I'd call healthy, but they're the second-slowest guy running from the tiger in most of their markets), and the Playstation brand isn't spun off or bought from a bankruptcy sale, MS will lose a competitor that's currently thrashing them and be able to stop spending billions of dollars on promotional deals and incentives.
And Nintendo... Well, we're ALREADY seeing what happens when a Nintendo console may as well not exist: within a year the other two absorb most of the market that could have been on Wii U.
Metallix87
Member
I think the worst has now passed for Nintendo, and the new forecast seems about right. Hopefully the losses have stopped, and the company can move forward towards a recovery. The Wii U will never be a true sales success, but at least they can use it as a means to get better at HD development for the successor platform in 2016 / 2017.
JordanN
Banned
Handhelds might not be valuable (as it's dominated by Nintendo software) but Consoles though are hella more important. Call of Duty and GTA still have their audience on consoles and not PC/Mobile and I'm too lazy to bring up revenue each Publisher reported.
Any company that has billions of dollars should be able to pick up consoles, as long as they can prove to shareholders "this will help us make money" (see Facebook buyout of Oculus Rift).
openrob
Member
Like people have said - the biggest issue is that Ninendo fail to see what the problems are. Expecting a game or 2 & DS Virtual console to steer this in the right direction is just misinformed. The Wii U though still has mostly fixable problems though, although the longer they are left unfixed, the more they fade into obscurity.
Start by fixing the online, at least! I think what they are doing with Mario Kart is exactly what they should be doing.
Good advertising campaign, great deal with the free digital download, upload gameplay to Youtube etc. People who respond to price drop comments for Wii U by saying that it will be sold at a loss, should see the value in free digital content. As far back as last year they should have been doing this stuff.
Why they never made a CoD or AC4 bundle makes me wonder. Because it's the hype of these big games that sell consoles.
Say for instance CoD - one on the biggest franchises, sells millions, highly sought after by people across platforms.
It comes to the Wii U and is given less exposure than Funky Barn!
I struggle to see, when during a supposed drought, Nintendo would neglect probably the biggest game that quarter, or at least the biggest 3rd party game.
I mean check out GAME UK's CoD page. There in store layout is pretty much the same.
This gives it bad press, and that is the second biggest killer to Nintendo - Bad press.Bad press & bad advertising.
It perpetuates the cycle of no awareness - no sales & the cycle of 3rd parties saying - Doesn't sell well - no effort, no effort - no sales.
Start by fixing the online, at least! I think what they are doing with Mario Kart is exactly what they should be doing.
Good advertising campaign, great deal with the free digital download, upload gameplay to Youtube etc. People who respond to price drop comments for Wii U by saying that it will be sold at a loss, should see the value in free digital content. As far back as last year they should have been doing this stuff.
Why they never made a CoD or AC4 bundle makes me wonder. Because it's the hype of these big games that sell consoles.
Say for instance CoD - one on the biggest franchises, sells millions, highly sought after by people across platforms.
It comes to the Wii U and is given less exposure than Funky Barn!
I struggle to see, when during a supposed drought, Nintendo would neglect probably the biggest game that quarter, or at least the biggest 3rd party game.
I mean check out GAME UK's CoD page. There in store layout is pretty much the same.
This gives it bad press, and that is the second biggest killer to Nintendo - Bad press.Bad press & bad advertising.
It perpetuates the cycle of no awareness - no sales & the cycle of 3rd parties saying - Doesn't sell well - no effort, no effort - no sales.
Metallix87
Member
With price drops and enough time, it could probably come pretty darn close. The biggest obstacle is price, IMO. Say what you will, but a 2DS is $130, a 3DS is $160, and a 3DS XL is $200. Yes, there are sales and deals, but those are the base prices. Nintendo needs to try to get the prices down to $99 or less for at least the 2DS and maybe even the 3DS.
Another major issue is software. A lot of the content from Japan isn't being localized in the West, resulting in the software library looking noticeably weak. This was never an issue for the GBA, and Nintendo needs to start convincing publishers to bring over more content. A healthy software release calender can only help and not hurt the platform.
I find it weird that they count New Super Luigi U as a key first party title, and even weirder that it managed to sell a million copies.
I agree with the sentiment that the worst is over for the Wii U - Nintendo recognise it's not going to be a success, but they'll keep it plugging away for as long as they have to. Desperately need to show off a new 3DS revision/new handheld hardware though.
Edit: Also, I've asked this before but it wasn't answered - if Iwata was to resign/be fired, who would be the person to replace him?
I agree with the sentiment that the worst is over for the Wii U - Nintendo recognise it's not going to be a success, but they'll keep it plugging away for as long as they have to. Desperately need to show off a new 3DS revision/new handheld hardware though.
Edit: Also, I've asked this before but it wasn't answered - if Iwata was to resign/be fired, who would be the person to replace him?
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
They are slowly walking their arrogant arses to irrelevancy.
ScepticMatt
Member
Glass panel overlay for the tablet then
Jubeat spec
Just doing my part to double console sales ( ≖‿≖
The worst isn't over until something can provide a recovery. Nothing can save the Wii U at this point and the 3ds will continue to sell, but at a declining rate. Only new hardware can change Nintendo's current outlook and make me feel that "the worst is over".
mysteriousmage09
Member
That Wii U forecast is.......
Shit is dead.
Shit is dead.
shinra-bansho
Member
They did a revision last year. And released a Pokemon game. They've pulled all the major levers realistically at their disposal besides the release of the 2DS in Japan, and really price doesn't seem to be the issue in Japan considering the SKU breakdown, rather saturation.
I'm really rather curious what's going on regarding their inventory. They haven't written down the value post-price cut, afaik, and they must be sitting in excess of their forecast so a portion of it shouldn't even be considered a current asset now.
Oh, OP has it at 11.65M from Mpl's post? Fake EDIT: and I just checked, that's the number in the financial statements, where's this 12.24 coming from? EDIT 2: oops wrong report, ignore.
OP needs correction.
Metallix87
Member
I'm not sure how you got to this conclusion. "Arrogance" is a term that, to me, fails to capture Nintendo's current attitude. This is not Yamauchi downplaying third party games and abusing publishers.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
They impaired their inventory this Q. No specific numbers, just that inventory was impaired. That along with extra R&D caused a larger than expected operating loss.
Portugeezer
Member
Take a seat...
Graphics Horse
Member
Maybe it's a long term strategy and they plan to sell them on the antiques market in 100 years time.
If they wait till 2016 for a successor, then the worse is yet to come.
Noone would buy a WiiU this year and the next when the PS4 and Xbone goes into full steam with its games this gen. Not to mention price cut for the Xbone this year.
Its 3.6m units shipped. I doubt they'll even sell all that. How is that makes them to move towards recovery? By having less units being manufactured?
Metallix87
Member
I don't think that's true at all. Software sells hardware, and Nintendo's two biggest hitters are coming out this year. There is no way a successor is coming next year. They'll survive selling 3 - 5 million units each year until 2016 / 2017.
You're assuming a lot of things.
I'm going to save this post.
So you believe a company with 30+ years' experience in video games, that sells 100 million software units a year, with the most well-known IPs in the industry, is going to be irrelevant because of 'arrogance'?
That makes the Wii U look like it's following the tend set by sales of previous consoles, with the Wii as an obvious 'blip'.Here you go. I made bar charts with Wikipedia numbers:
We knew that already. Its sad to see a console bomb that hard, but the mistakes Nintendo done with that system should teach them a lesson. I dont know if announcing a new hardware aimed at core gamers is the right decision though. After the PS4 hype its hard to bring something to the market that could hit such levels and even if they do, it will be released at least in 1,5 years when around 30 million next gen systems are already sold. Coupled with the difficult handheld situation, it wont be easy for Nintendo.
So did nintendo last FY.
Graphics Horse
Member
Yeah I see conflicting numbers in the summary, hadn't looked at the chart.
I think their image problem is too great to become the next Call of Destiny box even if it's a high spec low cost machine. And with everyone using the same kind of tech these days it's unlikely they can undercut the price of any PS4 revision Sony would be capable of in the future.
Metallix87
Member
So? Just because they were over-enthusiastic last year, doesn't change the fact that this year's forecast seems a lot more reasonable.
This is a regular problem with Japanese business - Japan and Japanese management are inaccessible from the west, no accessibility means fewer members of the press build that personal connection that makes them want to hype you AND you don't attract a following on social media to work around them, but in a relatively weak market the last thing you want to do is hand major business authority to someone in the US who you have no real way of judging.
Sony seems to have the right idea by sending English-fluent staff from the mothership (Kaz, Yosp) over to actually manage rather than just figurehead and by bringing promising foreign staff "inside" to work their way into core management. I'd like to see Nintendo try the same again. Their US glory days were DEFINITELY when Arakawa seemed to have a degree of freedom and trust to do his own thing with NoA.
Hydrargyrus
Member
Wii U is not going downhill, is almost at the bottom
That's exactly what it is. The Wii was an anomaly and Nintendo failed to carry any of that over to the Wii U. In a sad way the Wii U puts Nintendo home consoles "back on track".
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Arrogance and their inability to adapt to the modern marketplace. Lots of old companies go under. Age and experience means nothing if you can't adapt.
Just because their forecast is being called realistic doesnt change the fact that 3.6m units shipped in a year is beyond awful in every way possible.
And they don't seem to be doing anything to improve its image.
Spieler Eins
Member
QOL says they didn't. Not a single successful ,,blue ocean'' title left among their million sellers, unless you count 3 mil out of previously 20 mil Nintendogs. Yet they still think people are still interested in that shit and make a whole platform for it. This is beyond stubborn and straight up moronic at this point. Watch them keeping the Wii brand for their next platform too, lol. The current leadership will never ,,learn''.
Mario Kart 8 isn't going to save the console by itself but it will help for sure.
Jimmyfenix
Member
In regards to joe's post The last of us sold over 6 million for a new ip.
This will be an interesting time for Nintendo at E3 I wonder what qol even is!
This will be an interesting time for Nintendo at E3 I wonder what qol even is!
Chittagong
Gold Member
Am I the only one thinking that a further 3.6M Wii Us seems optimistic? I'm not sure if Mario Kart or Smash Bros have that kind of pull for an otherwise dead platform.
I meant the price cut that would naturally come with dropping the uPad, not beyond that, but bundling is practically free for games they published. They can add effective value without reducing price easily too.
That would make a lot of sense, but even then I'm surprised they wouldn't preemptively do it, even if it means hurting the potential sales of the remaining uPads, that cost is already written off at this point, and waiting a year to be proactive about the platform is really reckless. Despite what some people believe, Nintendo can't launch another console until the generation is basically over, and they can't remain irrelevant for five years waiting in the wings.
Need two other IPs other than Smash Bros and Mario Kart that can make a similar impact.. X looks good, but I'm not sure it will be a AAA hit.. Mario just isn't enough atm.. Need to get some good Zelda games released quick.. They also need to hit on any willing online multiplayer market, in some fashion to sell consoles.. That's what they need to do.. I'm hoping for a good all around Metroid game myself..
Nintendo wants to unify handheld and console, software and architecture wise. That should allow them to release a new console early - together with their next handheld. Unifying the two would fix many of their current problems. They don't have to spread themselves too thin because they only have a single platform to support, and they actually have pretty solid 3rd party support on the handheld side. On top of that, the future unified architecture will be based on the Wii U architecture, so they can easily port or move over Wii U titles currently in development.
I remember E3 2011, when nintendo unveiled the Wii U. I was there at the conference, and the general feeling at first was of extreme surprise and jubilation, but as the conf went on, the questions started mounting in everyone´s minds, and it was easy to see the doubts.
I was extremely surprised to see ken levine, out of all people, at that conf, giving a statement about hte hardware, and how irrational was interested in support it, etc. Ken levine! at a nintendo conf!
Its clear to me now, they totally had an over reliance on the sales success of the Wii, and just felt the need to check some boxes people were asking for, like showing third party support, even if it didnt materialize in the end.
The upper echelon of the nintendo hyerarchy needs to go.I get frustrated with the possibilities they have with all the technological advances sony and Microsoft are showing, imagine all that on the Wii? Remakes galore, a stable online system, games with online experiences in mind, narrative experiences... imagine a zelda game that tackles the origin of link,and creates a narrative that explains his connection to princess zelda?
Or the world of possibilities with Samus? The prime trilogy was already incredible, why not try to tell a compelling story and adapt the gameplay to appeal to more people? I would rather have adaptation in the gameplay and more metroid games tha to " stay pure" and have one every 4 years.
Rocksteady showed that if you treat a franchise right, they will come. Before the arkhan games, batman games were mainly cartonny. Look at it now.
People treat the suggestion of nintendo being more like a western dev as a negative thing, but why? I would rather they make changes and try new things, but stay sucessful than to die under the weight of their traditions.
I was extremely surprised to see ken levine, out of all people, at that conf, giving a statement about hte hardware, and how irrational was interested in support it, etc. Ken levine! at a nintendo conf!
Its clear to me now, they totally had an over reliance on the sales success of the Wii, and just felt the need to check some boxes people were asking for, like showing third party support, even if it didnt materialize in the end.
The upper echelon of the nintendo hyerarchy needs to go.I get frustrated with the possibilities they have with all the technological advances sony and Microsoft are showing, imagine all that on the Wii? Remakes galore, a stable online system, games with online experiences in mind, narrative experiences... imagine a zelda game that tackles the origin of link,and creates a narrative that explains his connection to princess zelda?
Or the world of possibilities with Samus? The prime trilogy was already incredible, why not try to tell a compelling story and adapt the gameplay to appeal to more people? I would rather have adaptation in the gameplay and more metroid games tha to " stay pure" and have one every 4 years.
Rocksteady showed that if you treat a franchise right, they will come. Before the arkhan games, batman games were mainly cartonny. Look at it now.
People treat the suggestion of nintendo being more like a western dev as a negative thing, but why? I would rather they make changes and try new things, but stay sucessful than to die under the weight of their traditions.
Graphics Horse
Member
I don't have any faith in them reaching the numbers they predict and I'm not convinced that Nintendo do either. There's only so many years you can go on expecting to sell more than you do, and it feels like they've been overestimating hardware every year since 2008/9. Perhaps Aquamarine or someone can let me know if I'm imagining things.