Support NeoGAF

[Toadthemushroom]

Yeah

What's led to the confusion is that the OP post is too vague - second screen gaming means different things to different people, but the only example you gave was of the Wii U's implementation.

I gathered that you meant the Wii U, but others haven't and I can't blame them for saying otherwise.

If you did mean any kind of second screen then it was probably misleading to only give the Wii U as an example.

 

[Octavianus]

No we can't because it wasn't.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I don't think it was necessarily a bad idea on DS. It actually made sense at the time in terms of engineering and cost. It was more like a solution to a problem than actual innovation IMO.

But I don't think it actually adds anything super special either. I see people here claiming there's games that could only exist because of the dual screens, and I just don't believe that for a second. Nearly every single one of those games could be made with a larger (touch) screen with higher resolution or one in a vertical position. That's literally it.

Asymmetrical multiplayer can be done with any handheld or through online play. You don't need an expensive tablet controller to achieve this.

 

[MoonFrog]

Nope. Worked great on DS/3DS. Liked having it for touch screen maps/menus on Wii U too, tbh, but not as convenient a usage there.

 

[Rodney McKay]

For handhelds? Hell no, it was a great idea and led to a lot of great game ideas with the DS. Even though it was less utilized in the 3DS, it was still nice for the basic stuff like having a map or HUD elements taking clutter away from the main screen.

For consoles, sure, second screen was pretty mediocre. The distance between the second screen and the TV made it less of an immediate thing compared to the DS. It saves you from pressing the menu button, but that's about it. Pikmin 3 was the only Wii U game that I kinda used the second screen stuff, but that was a hassle to use a wii remote AND have the gamepad on a table in front of me.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

Yes, just like Motion controls it was unnecessary or even really shit in most cases because developer didn't use it appropriately.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

...but other than that, as something that can be used to push gaming into new territory, it's quite simply a bad idea, and always was a bad idea...

It was a great idea. Being able to still play games on your console despite a tv being tied up was extremely useful. What would you propose to push gaming into new territory out of curiousity? The troubles of the Wii U had nothing to do with the second screen. People were able to take their Wii U's with them on trips and play games while flying on planes I went back and played through Deus Ex Mankind Divided and the controller screen worked great for the different puzzles. Zombie U made good use of the screen for actual gameplay. I can think of numerous other games that made use of it as well - Pikmin 3, Wind Waker remastered being just a couple more.. While maybe not for everyone, you can't really say it was a bad idea. And then you have the 3ds which was very successful.

 

[random25]

DS and 3DS were critical successes so the market disagrees with you OP.

Only the Wii U flopped. That's still 2 out of 3.

 

[PaulBizkit]

I loved it in the 3DS, since the upper screen (now being bigger) was clearly defined as the action one, and all the other stuff was relegated to the lower one.

And, since the console has a clamp-like shape, going into sleep mode is as easier and intuitive as ever.

It was great, the best gimmick in gaming history.

Yes, just like Motion controls it was unnecessary or even really shit in most cases because developer didn't use it appropriately.

Why didn't you like it on the DS or 3DS. I can accept that its use in the Wii U was lackluster though.

 

[MisterCrow]

It was amazing in Fire Emblem. Yeah it was just a 'UI' screen, but it allowed the other screen to be mostly all game. That worked great because the screen resolution is pretty small, so there isn't a lot of room for lots of UI up there. PLUS, it was brilliant that you could tap almost any item on the UI and it would pop up an explanation of what that thing is or does. This could definitely be emulated with a cursor, but it was really nice having it on touch.

 

[Meier]

I think it is more appropriate for handhelds because you can view them both at the same time or at least look at the other with minimal effort. It doesn't work as well for console gaming because the screen size. and distance between them. I haven't found it to be particularly useful in a home environment.

 

[Toxi]

Yeah, to be honest I'm not sure I can agree. What is your positive argument against two screens? You've rebutted several particular instances of its purported greatness, but you haven't explained why you actually think they're bad in the general sense.

It makes hardware more expensive. As seen with the absurdly costed Wii U.

 

[timetokill]

Nope, it was pretty fantastic actually. Sorry you haven't seen the light OP.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Why didn't you like it on the DS or 3DS. I can accept that its use in the Wii U was lackluster though.

For me I don't like touch controls so I disliked games that used it for gameplay. As above, it was useful for conveniences like inventory, map etc., but not worth the tradeoff of having shit tier, low res screens to keep price down and battery life up IMO.

 

[redcrayon]

It wasn't the worst idea for portables, though there's really nothing you can do with 2 screens that you can't also do with just one larger screen (a la 2DS).
.

Have a clamshell design?

 

[True Fire]

It was amazing for JRPGs.

 

[bman94]

Just because you didn't like it doesn't make it a bad idea.

For real, the fuck is up with this thread?

 

[Belfast]

Second screen with compelling asymmetric gameplay is grand, but nobody seems to want to develop that way.

 

[HardRojo]

It worked amazingly on the DS, I loved it.

 

[Freshmaker]

Wasn't the DS an undeniable smash hit and the 3DS pretty successful as well?

Second screen gaming also popped up on Sony and MS platforms. I had no desire to sit there juggling a vita or a cell phone along with a control pad while I tried to play a game on my TV.

 

[ChrisD]

I'm not looking forward to playing Fire Emblem Switch (I mean, I am, but stick with me), just because trying to play the older GBA and GameCube titles feels so cumbersome after getting accustomed to two screens. Hate having to click into menus to see what has been shown on a bottom screen for years now.

This will also go for Pokemon Switch whenever that releases.

Dual-Screen (DS/3DS) >>>>> Split-Screen (Wii U), but neither sucked and the loss will be a - personally to me, anyways - big QoL detriment to a number of franchises.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

999 exist so no.

 

[PhantomKnight]

What I would like to see more is what metal gear solid V did with second screen ontablets/phones. It basically gives you the idroid on your device and you can use it as a map and tag places, even enemies that were tagged would show up. The cool thing was that you could listen to the tape recordings on your phone/tablet without directly connecting to the game.

So I would like the option of second screen on phones/tablet for things like maps, but also audio logs and text logs that you can access outside the game.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Worked perfect for Wind Waker. Made menu traversal quick and effortless.

 

[xxbrothawizxx63]

Some multiplayer focused gameplay concepts were pretty fun and engaging.

The second screen experience really did shine in multimedia use though. The Netflix experience (random app crashes earlier in its life aside) is unparalleled in my opinion because of the mirroring.

 

[jroc74]

I'm gonna say yea. It was a bad idea.

It had its moments tho.

Those saying but DS and 3DS, the extra screen didnt take your eyes away from the main screen.

Reading the OP, I think he's referring to the way it was used with the Wii U, not the handhelds.

Off screen use is amazing. Wii U or Vita Remote Play.

 

[pa22word]

The only game I can ever remember actually doing anything with the idea was ninja gaiden dragon sword....so yeah it was just a novel gimmick for most games. Even games people praise for asynchronous usage to the moon like zombie u was just doing effectively the same thing games like ultima underworld was doing 20+ years ago as far as real time inventory stuff goes. Like do I really think Zelda was any worse because I had to press a button to have the map pop up vs looking down at the screen? Not really, no.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

It wouldn't have been a good idea for anyone in the game but Nintendo.

Nintendo made dual screens work, with an underpowered, affordable line of handhelds bearing a swath of uniquely accessible games.

 

[cookie-monster]

wrong

 

[poodaddy]

I absolutely adore second screen gaming and it's demise saddens me.

 

[Saty]

Yes. You can have as many screens as you like, but i only have one pair of eyes and thus my sight will be focused only at one screen at a time, which make the prospect of additional screens dumb. I'm not going to dart my eyes from one screen to another (which is of different size, quality, shape and eye level and might also require me craning my neck downwards etc.).

You're only looking at one screen at a time. So anything you do on the second screen can be done on a single screen with PiP or over-layed pictures. What's left of he second screen gimmick is purely the hassle of having to look at a different screen and adjust your bearing to it. I don't know of any second-screen functionality in the WiiU that couldn't be comfortably mapped to a single screen.

 

[kpaadet]

There were many great games on DS/3DS that took advantaged of the 2nd screen, but I would still rather have one higher quality single screen. I like the idea of using your smartphone for some games though, a game like Hidden Agenda looks very interesting. I hope one day Nintendo will work out a way to use the Switch as a second screen when docked, probably not gonna happen.

 

[Ushojax]

Oh yes, it sold 150 million units because it was a terrible idea.

I don't understand the complaints about having to monitor two screens at once, the games that asked you do to that were built around that concept and didn't compromise anything. Most of the time the second screen was just a map screen. Even with single screen gaming you are still frequently looking away from the action to check your health bar, minimal etc so I don't see what the big deal is. What kind of games are you playing on the DS that require such scientific levels of attention?

 

[pa22word]

Yes. You can have as many screens as you like, but i only have one pair of eyes and thus my sight will be focused only at one screen at a time, which make the prospect of additional screens dumb. I'm not going to dart my eyes from one screen to another (which is of different size, quality, shape and eye level and might also require me craning my neck downwards etc.).

You're only looking at one screen at a time. So anything you do on the second screen can be done on a single screen with PiP or over-layed pictures. What's left of he second screen gimmick is purely the hassle of having to look at a different screen and adjust your bearing to it. I don't know of any second-screen functionality in the WiiU that couldn't be comfortably mapped to a single screen.

This is why I always felt asynchronous gaming was a good idea that was ill served and always going to be half baked for traditional gaming implementations. I think it'll be much more interesting and well implemented in stuff like Vive's lighthouse VR or AR gaming due to eye and head tracking being a thing along with spatial recognition being much more intuitive.

 

[messiaen]

Nope. I loved second screen gaming across Nintendo's handhelds and the Wii U. Gonna miss it now that it's gone, alongside the 3DS' stereoscopic display.

If anything we're worse off with it gone. So many game designs are no longer possible because of it.

Playing Pikmin 3 with the Wii Remote and Nunchuck with the gamepad propped up as your minimap was glorious.

Basically how I feel.

I remember hoping that the NX would be a separate home and mobile console so that second screen would still be possible, like 3ds/Wii U Smash was.

 

[pbayne]

No it was a fantastic idea, lead to some of the most inventive and best games of the last 2 gens.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Nope. I loved second screen gaming across Nintendo's handhelds and the Wii U. Gonna miss it now that it's gone, alongside the 3DS' stereoscopic display.

If anything we're worse off with it gone. So many game designs are no longer possible because of it.

Playing Pikmin 3 with the Wii Remote and Nunchuck with the gamepad propped up as your minimap was glorious.

Yeah, playing Pikmin 3 like that was neat, but I thought the Wii Remote and Nunchuk scheme paled in comparison to the Touch scheme that Nintendo patched in a few months after the game released.

I was able to cut days off of my last playthrough because the precision of touch controls enabled me to do more than the novelty of having a persistent open map did


(Boy I wish CEMU would introduce gamepad audio emulation already so I could play Pikmin 3 w/1:1 mouse controls)

 

[Wollan]

Any limitation/design brings opportunities for cool creativity but ultimately going for a single more higher quality screen is the better of the two options.

 

[Jimnymebob]

My problem with it was the touchscreens. You had to use the stylus, or put up with a smudgy mess of fingerprints. So when it came to using the touchscreen, you had to mess around taking the stylus out, which was a pain.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

it's a bad idea in "focus" and attention while gaming. For some games its fine for obvious reasons

 

[CaviarMeths]

Absolutely not. It was a great idea. It still is. Going back to playing stat-heavy RPGs like Fire Emblem without the second screen is going to be difficult.

Next you'll tell me that a dual monitor set-up for PC is a bad idea.

 

[axisofweevils]

No. I really think Splatoon 2 on Switch loses a lot of the strategy that made the original so compelling on Wii U. Also, every time I select a weapon in BOTW, or hunt for a section of landscape to match a photograph, I always think how much better these tasks would be if the second screen was available.

For example, the 3DS's second screen made the infamous Water Temple actually tolerable.

 

[True Fire]

PS4 is about to get second screen gameplay with that new Supermassive game where you get to make group decisions about what to do. That's what Nintendo should've gone for in the first place.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

PS4 is about to get second screen gameplay with that new Supermassive game where you get to make group decisions about what to do. That's what Nintendo should've gone for in the first place.

to be fair you can't do all the same things you can do with a phone/app as you can with a second screen that's integrated into the game system

 

[rudger]

Can it really be dead if Metroid hasn't come out for it yet? It's made for a series like Metroid!

Also I love my 3ds and Wii U and felt the feature was under used on the Wii U.

 

[YearoftheWooster]

Dual screen gaming is great on handhelds, and underutilized for consoles.
That's it. It's still useful, until the 3DS fades.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

It wasn't though. It was great

 

[rhandino]

We cant because it was perfect for a lot of games in the DS and 3DS.

Like, I don't know how I tolerated to play Igavania games without the full map and also the fact that the Etrian Odyssey series was born because the dual screen setup.

Please take several seat.

 

[chadtwo]

It makes hardware more expensive. As seen with the absurdly costed Wii U.

Well, that's true, but I take it so do most additional hardware features -- it's not a problem unless the hardware feature itself is deemed bad (or at least not worth the cost). But then that just leads back the original question: Why are two screens a bad thing?

 

[Neoxon]

I'm gonna have to disagree. In Splatoon 2's case, they pretty much scrapped every single old special weapon, thus side-stepping the need to adapt certain specials for single-screen use. Pokémon in particular will be a little weird going back, but at least Game Freak is easing us into it by down-playing the 2nd screen in Gen 7.

The 2nd screen was overall useful for item management & some unique uses like Nintendo Land & Splatoon 1. Not to mention the tons of DS & 3DS games that capitalized on dual screens (Ex: Etrian Odyssey, Dragon Quest XI).