There are literally maybe 2 or 3 hitters I would put over Hanley Ramirez in the entire league given his age, potential, and contract. There is no chance in HELL I'd trade someone of his caliber for a meh young center fielder and pitching prospect that, while good, is still a gigantic risk. Buchholz would have to be the second coming of Sandy Koufax for a trade like that to even begin looking good on the Marlins end.
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Official 2008-2009 MLB Offseason Thread of Billy Beane mocking Qwerty for 6 months
- Thread starter The Frankman
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If the Marlins want outfield and pitching prospects that would be cheap for years, and would seriously give up Hanley Ramirez, I don't understand why the Twins are not on the phone with them RIGHT NOW. Our system is basically filled with those two things.
Oh wait that would make too much sense.
Oh wait that would make too much sense.
CajoleJuice
Member
that was frankmaneznark said:
taviera's stolen base percentage was really good though
captmcblack
Member
eznark said:
In terms of "best 1B in all of baseball", definitely.
In terms of best players, you have to have:
- Pujols
- A-Rod
- Manram
- Utley
At least in there around/before Tex. Tex is probably top 10, though.
CajoleJuice
Member
I think Manny needs an asterisk for "when he wants to play." Also, the other guys can actually field.captmcblack said:
captmcblack said:
Hold up. I'll give you the first three are in the discussion, I contend Tex's switch hitting and defense vault him over Manny.
But Utley? Are you serious? His marginal value is possibly higher because he is so much better than every other 2B, but in terms of pure player v. player? Again, defense and both plates put him a mile ahead of Chase.
Chase Utley is by far the best name in baseball though.
captmcblack
Member
Ellsbury is a less shitty Coco Crisp.
Let's be clear.
[EDIT: RE: Chase Utley, he's an excellent 2B that also happens to mash 30+ HR and put up a .300/.400/.500+ line regularly. How can he not be up there? Maybe he's borderline like say...Matt Holliday, but whatever.]
Let's be clear.
[EDIT: RE: Chase Utley, he's an excellent 2B that also happens to mash 30+ HR and put up a .300/.400/.500+ line regularly. How can he not be up there? Maybe he's borderline like say...Matt Holliday, but whatever.]
CajoleJuice
Member
Utley is one of the best defensive second baseman in baseball, eznark.
CajoleJuice
Member
Why not! We can actually be on the same team for once!Zep said:
captmcblack said:
Just on pure ability and results, I go Pujols, A-Rod, Manny definitely for top 3, and from there it gets a bit murky, as I'd put Hanley, Wright, Sizemore, Utley, Beltran, and maybe Youkillis (though I think his power this past season was a fluke, you can't knock his godly OBP skills) all in one group, with Hanley beating them out considering contract and age.
The Frankman
Banned
Cajole you're killing me w/ your reaction to Jones. I hope they trade for him now.
Well not LAST year... all I'm saying is no need to drastically change the status quo. Also I want to see who all the prospects are.Y2Kev said:
I can't understand this Sizemore lovefest. Yes, he's a ++++ defender but I don't really think he belongs on the list with players like Utley and Poopjuls yet. His stats are attractive but we're going to put him on a top ten most valuable over replacement players?
Tex is a great player.
(nomaas)
Tex is a great player.
CajoleJuice said:Why not! We can actually be on the same team for once!
We could! But really, there is nothing to argue. Best 2b, great hitter, great glove, hits lefties, team leader, saves dogs, played with bum hip and no complaints, makes 10mil less than "other guy"..
Whatever.
Y2Kev said:
Looking at a straight VORP comparison is useful, but I still think all things considered Sizemore has a ton of talent, has shown for several years that he can use all that talent, and, like Hanley, is freaking 25/26. Then again, maybe I just have a thing for center fielders since I've got Beltran up there as well.
CajoleJuice
Member
Don't feel bad, I'm in the same boat (as is fangraphs).jman2050 said:
CajoleJuice
Member
I'm pretty sure that's what they are attempting to measure, or at least something close to it. Maybe they're not quite centered on it, but it's in there. I think you only have a problem with their defensive metrics and positional adjustments, which is totally understandable.Y2Kev said:
Position adjustment:
Catcher: +12.5 runs (all are per 150 defensive games)
First Base: -12.5 runs
Second Base: +2.5 runs
Third Base: +2.5 runs
Shortstop: +7.5 runs
Left Field: -7.5 runs
Center Field: +2.5 runs
Right Field: -7.5 runs
Designated Hitter: -17.5 runs
CajoleJuice
Member
Y2Kev said:
I thought you were going to argue that their positional adjustments are a bit extreme, which I believe to be a valid point of contention.CajoleJuice
Member
failing smell test = ranking a-rod too low
you do know he ranked that low on the value table because of the games he missed, right?
you do know he ranked that low on the value table because of the games he missed, right?
I think the odds of the Mets landing Manny aren't outlandish. He could sign with them for one year, have a crazy season with a ton of press with a competitive team, and then go onto a better market. Sell himself for a better price than he's getting now. If I were Manny, that'd be my strategy.
What, you think you are my mind reader now?CajoleJuice said:failing smell test = ranking a-rod too low
you do know he ranked that low on the value table because of the games he missed, right?
Pass this smell test (this is where I fart).
I get MLB network but not NFL network.
The Frankman
Banned
Forget old and busted Manny. Mets are trading for this sexy beast:Fatalah said:
CajoleJuice
Member
So LJ, if I have the NFL network on DTV, I'll have the MLB network? I don't handle the bill, which is why I'm not totally up to that date with this shit.
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