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Official CNN Democratic Presidential Debate Thread of CHANGE you can XEROX

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T

typhonsentra

Banned
sangreal said:
I thought it was terrible, although I enjoyed seeing them make fun of Hillary's insignificant losses
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Yeah, I liked the part with her brushing the loses off (Where I came in), everything after that was incoherent.
 
S

sangreal

Member
siamesedreamer said:
It was terrible. But, it was spot on with the media fawning all over him. The woman having an orgasm after he talked probably isn't too far fetched.
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CNN doesn't really fawn all over him though; MSNBC would have been a better choice, especially for the orgasm bit (Chris Matthews)
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
sangreal said:
CNN doesn't really fawn all over him though; MSNBC would have been a better choice, especially for the orgasm bit (Chris Matthews)
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Yeah, that was the weirdest part of the video. CNN's really the only network that acts as if she even has a chance anymore "Blitzer: Don't count Hillary out!".
 
S

sangreal

Member
Atrus said:
Kudos to him. Didn't expect him to take a time out and do a point-by-point refutation of her claims.
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He has incorporated all of her attacks into his stump speech. He turns them into a joke, laughs them off, and then turns them around.

The list is getting pretty long now
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
http://www.reznetnews.org/blogs/alfred/obama-delegates-win-majority-reno

SPARKS, Nev. - The Washoe County Democratic Party held its county convention today. Among the business items was the allotment of delegates for Senators Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Barack Obama (D-Ill.) as well as former Sen. John Edwards (D-N.C.).

Clinton's campaign was initially entitled to 697 delegates, the Edwards campaign to 152 and the Obama campaign to 855. In the first alignment, 505 Clinton delegates were seated, 65 Edwards delegates and 697 Obama delegates. After a controversial second alignment involving Edwards delegates, Clinton received 668 delegates while Obama's count went up to 915. At the end of the third and final alignment, the Clinton campaign earned 683 delegates, falling short of the initial entitled delegates for the New York senator's bid while the Obama campaign surged ahead with 972 delegates.

In the final math, tabulated by the county party's Credentials Committee, the Clinton campaign sent 232 delegates to the state Democratic party convention while the Obama campaign sent 329 delegates.

During the second alignment, convention chairman Matt Dickson announced the recommendation of the Credentials Committee to seat all Edwards delegates and alternates as delegates, but those present would not fill the entire 152 entitled delegates. As a compromise, the committee recommended the unseated delegates not present be awarded 50-50 to both Clinton and Obama campaigns. Drawing uproars from both Edwards and Obama supporters, demanding Edwards delegates be awarded proportionately, 5-to-4, Dickson asked for a motion to suspend the rules and vote to adopt the first recommendation of a 50-50 allotment.

After voting was completed, delegates made a motion on the floor to amend the first motion to award not present Edwards delegates based on a proportionate 5-to-4 basis. The motion carried, with boos from Clinton supporters and Edwards delegates were so awarded. The entire process was debated and completed in over an hour's time.

Other items on the agenda included, adopting the county Democratic party's platform, which was sent back to committee twice to include the defense of Roe vs. Wade under the health care section of the platform.

As the evening wound down, the county delegates in each presidential preference group were give 30 minutes to collect no more than five signatures for those wishing to go onto represent Clinton and Obama at the state Democratic party convention, which will also be held in Reno, May 16-17 at the Grand Sierra Resort.

Unconfirmed reports at the Washoe County convention were that Clark County's (Las Vegas and surrounding areas) convention was dissolved because of the logistic inability to seat all delegates and inability to come to decisions on any motions made. The Nevada Democratic Party's Web site currently shows Clark County's delegate count as dash marks.
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Yeah, I don't think I'll ever truly understand how caucuses work.:lol
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
Cheebs said:
Has this been posted? It's dead on.

brookins.jpg
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:D :lol :lol :lol :lol
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
sangreal said:
Frank Rich: The Audacity of Hopelessness

ouch
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.

Clinton fans don’t see their standard-bearer’s troubles this way. In their view, their highly substantive candidate was unfairly undone by a lightweight showboat who got a free ride from an often misogynist press and from naïve young people who lap up messianic language as if it were Jim Jones’s Kool-Aid. Or as Mrs. Clinton frames it, Senator Obama is all about empty words while she is all about action and hard work.

But it’s the Clinton strategists, not the Obama voters, who drank the Kool-Aid. The Obama campaign is not a vaporous cult; it’s a lean and mean political machine that gets the job done. The Clinton camp has been the slacker in this race, more words than action, and its candidate’s message, for all its purported high-mindedness, was and is self-immolating.
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So true. In a way, these campaigns test certain aspects of being a president and in the end Obama won this battle in stride.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Furthermore:

The insults continued on Tuesday night when a surrogate preceding Mrs. Clinton onstage at an Ohio rally, Tom Buffenbarger of the machinists’ union, derided Obama supporters as “latte-drinking, Prius-driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust-fund babies.” Even as he ranted, exit polls in Wisconsin were showing that Mr. Obama had in fact won that day among voters with the least education and the lowest incomes. Less than 24 hours later, Mr. Obama received the endorsement of the latte-drinking Teamsters.

If the press were as prejudiced against Mrs. Clinton as her campaign constantly whines, debate moderators would have pushed for the Clinton tax returns and the full list of Clinton foundation donors to be made public with the same vigor it devoted to Mr. Obama’s “plagiarism.” And it would have showered her with the same ridicule that Rudy Giuliani received in his endgame. With 11 straight losses in nominating contests, Mrs. Clinton has now nearly doubled the Giuliani losing streak (six) by the time he reached his Florida graveyard. But we gamely pay lip service to the illusion that she can erect one more firewall.
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F

Flesh Into Gear

Member
This is the candidate who keeps telling us she’s so competent that she’ll be ready to govern from Day 1. Mrs. Clinton may be right that Mr. Obama has a thin résumé, but her disheveled campaign keeps reminding us that the biggest item on her thicker résumé is the health care task force that was as botched as her presidential bid.
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sheesh
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Amir0x said:
So true. In a way, these campaigns test certain aspects of being a president and in the end Obama won this battle in stride.
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As I posted before, the Editor-in-Chief(I think) of Time Magazine made the same observation. When it comes to planning, strategy, and management, Obama has shown himself to be the most capable executive in the race.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Just an example of this, from the same article:

In the last battleground, Wisconsin, the Clinton campaign was six days behind Mr. Obama in putting up ads and had only four campaign offices to his 11. Even as Mrs. Clinton clings to her latest firewall — the March 4 contests — she is still being outhustled. Last week she told reporters that she “had no idea” that the Texas primary system was “so bizarre” (it’s a primary-caucus hybrid), adding that she had “people trying to understand it as we speak.” Perhaps her people can borrow the road map from Obama’s people. In Vermont, another March 4 contest, The Burlington Free Press reported that there were four Obama offices and no Clinton offices as of five days ago. For what will no doubt be the next firewall after March 4, Pennsylvania on April 22, the Clinton campaign is sufficiently disorganized that it couldn’t file a complete slate of delegates by even an extended ballot deadline.
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S

sangreal

Member
This article, which was linked to in the NYTimes piece pretty much tells the whole story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/28/AR2008012802558.html

"Showing the ability to perform well across the country, particularly against Senator Clinton, who was the inevitable national front-runner for most of the campaign, has great value," said David Plouffe, Obama's campaign manager
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vs

"It's very hard to gain a big advantage in small states," said one Clinton strategist, who noted that Clinton is concentrating her early fire on four states -- California, New York, New Jersey and Arkansas -- that will produce 44 percent of the Feb. 5 delegates. She will go head-to-head with Obama in a string of sizeable states, while limiting her ground efforts elsewhere.
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Smiles and Cries said:
what does this mean?
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Nothing really, its just an embarrassment. If an area is worth 12 delegates to the state convention and you only put 10 delegates on the ticket, you can't possibly win all 12.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Smiles and Cries said:
what does this mean?
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Not much, apparantly.

Here's the article the Times piece links to:

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/15759032.html

But Clinton's faux pas is more of an image problem than a practical one.

Under Democratic Party rules (and does any organization on the planet have more rules or more complex rules?) a presidential candidate winning in a congressional district gets delegates from that district (assigned at a later date) whether he or she files slates delegates or not.

Still.

For a national campaign stressing competence, experience, "ready day one," one might expect a full slate in what could be a key state.
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P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Smiles and Cries said:
I thought Clinton had an all-star team of advisors people who are so good they get paid millions. I would like to know where Obama got his people from
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yeah. the clinton campaign has really baffled me. i think obama really threw them for a completely unexpected loop.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Hitokage said:
As I posted before, the Editor-in-Chief(I think) of Time Magazine made the same observation. When it comes to planning, strategy, and management, Obama has shown himself to be the most capable executive in the race.
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Generalizing competence in campaigning to competence in governing might be a (common) mistake. Also, it's a situation like sports where there's only one winner, and people have a tendency towards really results-based analysis (the winner was brilliant and inevitable, the loser was always going to fail because of their incompetence).

I don't think the Clinton campaign has been a bad one. It's stronger than any of the Democratic campaigns in 2004, or any of the Republican campaigns in this cycle. That said, there were some obviously very dumb decisions, and big ones at that.

Fair play, though. As far as I can tell, the image of Hillary -- and the Clinton operation in general -- as a competent and efficient getter of results is entirely based on her coverage of constituent services in NY state, and The War Room.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Quite true, and exceptions might run the other way too. I'm pretty convinced that as shitty of a candidate and leader as Kerry was, he would have made a great governing executive.

That being said, the situation with Bush and Obama aren't completely comparable.
 
D

Deku

Banned
Mandark said:
Generalizing competence in campaigning to competence in governing might be a (common) mistake. Also, it's a situation like sports where there's only one winner, and people have a tendency towards really results-based analysis (the winner was brilliant and inevitable, the loser was always going to fail because of their incompetence).
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I don't think you can explain how the money was mismanaged or how their crushing lead was lost. Basic facts like getting beaten by Obama on the ground war is not a subjective observation colored by the glasses of victory. To the contrary it seems a rather objective indictment of a campaign that expected to coast to victory.

I suppose that in itself can be an excuse for incompetence, but would we then allow Bush and Rumsfeld to say the same thing about his administration's Iraq policy.

It is quite damning how Hillary mismanaged her campaign. But I suppose all will be forgotten and Clinton will be brilliant again if she bounces back on March 4th.
 
V

VALIS

Member
typhonsentra said:
Yeah, that was the weirdest part of the video. CNN's really the only network that acts as if she even has a chance anymore "Blitzer: Don't count Hillary out!".
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I've been trying to figure out if they actually like her or they just don't want this race, and all the extra viewers it brings to their network, to end. Every other channel has been stating the obvious: short of a miracle, this is over. CNN? "IT'S NECK AND NECK!!"
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
VALIS said:
I've been trying to figure out if they actually like her or they just don't want this race, and all the extra viewers it brings to their network, to end. Every other channel has been stating the obvious: short of a miracle, this is over. CNN? "IT'S NECK AND NECK!!"
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CNN has always been pro Hillary
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Did anyone read that NYT article yesterday about Clinton's increasing realization that she is getting less and less likely to win? I thought it was pretty enlightening. The illumination on the in-fighting going on within her camp is quite fascinating.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Amir0x said:
Did anyone read that NYT article yesterday about Clinton's increasing realization that she is getting less and less likely to win? I thought it was pretty enlightening. The illumination on the in-fighting going on within her camp is quite fascinating.
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And the wine. Don't forget the wine.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
grandjedi6 said:
CNN has always been pro Hillary
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impossible the whole media is completely in love with obama and does everything they can to help him. i mean we're at bush-pitching-the-iraq-war-war levels of unquestioning adulation here people.
 
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