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Official NH Primary Results Thread

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Tom_Cody said:
Okay, I guess that makes sense. I didn't realize where you all were coming from. It is certainly arguable that Cameron was out of line when he asked the question. I still consider it a completely reasonable question though, one that I would like answered. I don't think that Ron Paul should change anything in regard to his behavior or ideas, but if he is not concerned with getting elected he should not be in the race. It is simply frustrating to me that he is so unconcerned with getting elected while supposedly running for president. The specific purpose of the primary is to select a presidential candidate.

edit: while, not will

My problem with the debate is how the questions were asked.

They were talking about economics. This is Pauls big thing. They asked every candidate, but when it was Pauls turn they asked about 9/11.

He did the right thing. he said "No, I disagree, now let me answer the question everybody else got"

Fox was trying to paint him as a sideshow.


The electebility question was timed right, all the candidates were being asked about it.

However, its the way it was said. The moderator paused to smirk while asking it, and the other moderator laughed out loud. I didnt hear anybody laughing when they asked Huckabee if he was electable.
 
Tom_Cody said:
It is certainly true that running a presidential campaign is a great way to get publicity. I would argue that Ron Paul's campaign is being run at the expense of the productivity of republican party's primary without substantively altering the tone or message of the electable candidates' campaigns.

I don't understand what this means. Explain it to me.
 

Macam

Banned
Stoney Mason said:
I don't understand what this means. Explain it to me.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. I presume he simply meant that Paul's campaign is effectively a distracting sideshow since for all of his base's fundraising prowess and Paul's own radical views, he still hasn't managed to change the tone or stance of the party's candidates one iota. None of the so-called electable candidates (Giuliani, Romney, Huckabee, McCain) have been impacted by his views or the amount of money he's been garnering.

That said, I disagree with Cody's views since it seems to assume that the Republican primary is a) productive and b) that Paul is somehow holding back the party base, which is split and dissatisfied with most of the candidates, from making a clear decision on their nominee.
 
Macam said:
It seems pretty straightforward to me. I presume he simply meant that Paul's campaign is effectively a distracting sideshow since for all of his base's fundraising prowess and Paul's own radical views, he still hasn't managed to change the tone or stance of the party's candidates one iota.

I don't think you can measure what he has effectively changed or hasn't changed in the Republican party for quite a while and I don't think anyone ever expected the party's other candidates to break down and say I was wrong and he was right during a primary. I don't think any of the other candidates have achieved that threshold either if indeed that is a realistic goal at all.

As far as the distracting sideshow aspect, if the other candidates had messages that were resonating with a group they would be getting the money. George Bush didn't seem to have any fundraising problems when he ran. Would Ron Paul have "stolen" all his money too?
 

Macam

Banned
Stoney Mason said:
I don't think you can measure what he has effectively changed or hasn't changed in the Republican party for quite a while and I don't think anyone ever expected the party's other candidates to break down and say I was wrong and he was right during a primary. I don't think any of the other candidates have achieved that threshold either if indeed that is a realistic goal at all.

I imagine Cody was referring to the immediate short term. As far as altering the candidates' respective messages, I don't think anyone was expecting a complete reversal, but perhaps a more tempered, calculated political maneuver of playing down the war rhetoric. If Mitt wasn't so financially self sustaining, he might be a likely candidate to try that route.

Stoney Mason said:
As far as the distracting sideshow aspect, if the other candidates had messages that were resonating with a group they would be getting the money. George Bush didn't seem to have any fundraising problems when he ran. Would Ron Paul have "stolen" all his money too?

Ron isn't stealing any of the other candidates' money, so that's not really an issue. It's just a matter of not having any impact whatsoever in spite of the money.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
harSon said:
I'm starting to get a headache and was only able to read a few paragraphs. In who's favor were these votes allegedly rigged towards?
Read this article instead.

I'm not sure what to make of it, but it would be hilarious and epic if the hand count results were different in any significant way. I've been looking for somewhere reporting on the recount status and haven't found any.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
harSon said:
I'm starting to get a headache and was only able to read a few paragraphs. In who's favor were these votes allegedly rigged towards?

Clinton's. Obama is the alleged victim of this heinous vote-stealing scam (and the numbers allegedly imply their vote totals were basically swapped).
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
iapetus said:
Clinton's. Obama is the alleged victim of this heinous vote-stealing scam (and the numbers allegedly imply their vote totals were basically swapped).


if you are going to rig the machines, it would be easiest to write a program that would just swap the results if she is losing.. so it makes sense.. but the only way to know for sure would be a complete recount.

:/
 
While I'm not a fan of Diebold or machines with a non-paper system backup, I'm happy a recount is happening so the reddit idiots will need to move on to something else to vote up every day. Perhaps back to JFK or 9/11 conspiracies...
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
quadriplegicjon said:
if you are going to rig the machines, it would be easiest to write a program that would just swap the results if she is losing.. so it makes sense..

Nah, Diebold machines are so heavily compromised you could pretty much do whatever you wanted. :p
 

GhaleonEB

Member
quadriplegicjon said:
if you are going to rig the machines, it would be easiest to write a program that would just swap the results if she is losing.. so it makes sense.. but the only way to know for sure would be a complete recount.

:/
That's what is happening today.

Okay, I just got off the phone with the Sec'y of State's office; ALL ballots, from EVERY jurisdiction in New Hampshire, are being trucked to Concord for the recount. That means EVERY SINGLE BALLOT CAST will be recounted, and the PAPER ballots from the Diebold districts will be counted (as opposed to simply recounting the machine totals). The recount will commence at approx. 900am [today], at the Archives Building in Concord, located at 71 South Fruit St. Anyone in the public is welcome to come, so I suggest anyone checking in here please go down and monitor the process closely. The campaigns are allowed to name particular monitors (I imagine they get a position close enough to read the tick marks on the ballots, whereas the public just watches the process from a gallery). I'm going to notify the campaigns as best I can, but if any readers know people from inside the campaigns, please notify them and have them contact the Secretary of State's office to insure access.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
quadriplegicjon said:
if there are huge discrepancies, i hope there will be a media outrage.. hopefully we can get those diebolt machines replaced by something secure and reliable.

I hope you can get them replaced by something secure and reliable anyway. That you're using voting machines that allow reasonable suspicions like this to be raised is just a joke, and not a good one at that.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
iapetus said:
I hope you can get them replaced by something secure and reliable anyway. That you're using voting machines that allow reasonable suspicions like this to be raised is just a joke, and not a good one at that.


i know, but its largely ignored by everyone.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Google is only turning up one story about the recount so far.

http://www.alternet.org/democracy/74102/

NH Recount Finds Vote Count Errors

So far the errors highlight problems with electronic voting, but don't overturn Clinton's surprise victory.


Election integrity activists in New Hampshire are finding all kinds of problems with the electronic vote count in last week's presidential primary, after a first day of recounting the Democratic vote. But the problems so far have not changed the outcome of the race that Hillary Clinton won.

According to an extensive report by Brad Friedman, editor and publisher of the BradBlog, which tracks the election integrity community, there have been numerous errors -- small and large -- that the recount, a process where paper ballots that were originally scanned by computer are now counted by hand, has turned up.

These include: electronic tallies that were off by several votes, paper ballots the were not read by electronic scanners (550 in one town), ballots that were not read because the voters used the wrong kind of marking pen. He also reported that some election records are missing, notably computer memory cards.

Election integrity activists from across the country have converged in New Hampshire for the recount, seeing it as an opportunity to showcase the shortcomings of electronic voting systems -- and possibly explain Hillary Clinton's surprise victory in the New Hampshire primary. They were drawn to New Hampshire after noticing that Barack Obama won in precincts counted by hand while Hillary Clinton won in the computer-tallied precincts.

Dennis Kucinich's presidential campaign requested and paid for the recount.

The activists have said that New Hampshire election officials, who used a Diebold optical scan system in 80 percent of the state -- where hand-marked paper ballots are scanned by computer to be counted -- should have audited the machine tallies on Election Night. While some New Hampshire precincts did that, it was not a widespread effort required by state officials.

Curiously, the activists' work may help build a case for a new bill to be introduced in the House today by Rep. Rush Holt, D-NJ, that would provide $600 million for election officials to replace paperless electronic voting machines with the same kind of optical scan system used in New Hampshire, but only if those jurisdictions conduct mandatory audits of the vote totals -- which is what New Hampshire is doing now.

Ironically, in New Hampshire the problems of electronic voting can be seen and tracked because there is a paper audit trail. In the upcoming South Carolina primary, where the state uses paperless electronic voting systems, there will be no independent audit trail to verify the vote.
It sounds like the recount is on going. Interesting that there's almost no press coverage.
 
harSon said:
Doesn't really matter. Error or not, Hillary Clinton has already received the benefits of winning the the primary.

This is true. Even if it was overturned, she's gotten all the headlines for the last week, which are more important than the few delegates she may or may not have won. I mean come on, Iowa and New Hampshire aren't exactly important because of the size.

On a related note, how fucking hard is it to count? I mean honestly. It can't POSSIBLY be this difficult.
 

Tamanon

Banned
harSon said:
Doesn't really matter. Error or not, Hillary Clinton has already received the benefits of winning the the primary.

Depends on exactly what the difference is in the recount, it could lead to some negative momentum.
 

Cheebs

Member
Tamanon said:
Depends on exactly what the difference is in the recount, it could lead to some negative momentum.
if results aren't out by feb 5th it wont matter, the nomination is effectively over that day.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
harSon said:
Doesn't really matter. Error or not, Hillary Clinton has already received the benefits of winning the the primary.

I disagree. When it comes to later voting, if it turns out her campaign outright cheated, anyone who's undecided is likely to vote against her. If not during the primaries, then at the election that actually counts.
 

harSon

Banned
iapetus said:
I disagree. When it comes to later voting, if it turns out her campaign outright cheated, anyone who's undecided is likely to vote against her. If not during the primaries, then at the election that actually counts.

Good luck trying to tack that on her campaign, we can't even get their campaign to own up to the several blatant mudslinging comments :lol
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
harSon said:
Good luck trying to tack that on her campaign, we can't even get their campaign to own up to the several blatant mudslinging comments :lol

Mudslinging is a fine tradition of US politics. Getting caught cheating isn't. If you can't cheat and lie properly while campaigning, how are you supposed to cheat and lie when you're president?
 

RubxQub

φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
Why we tolerate even one vote being miscounted is beyond me.

I've taken a billion scantron tests in my life, and never once has the thing freaking graded me incorrectly despite my best efforts to prove otherwise.

How hard is this shit?
 

harSon

Banned
iapetus said:
Mudslinging is a fine tradition of US politics. Getting caught cheating isn't. If you can't cheat and lie properly while campaigning, how are you supposed to cheat and lie when you're president?

Unless they can track down those who did it (lol) and have them single out the Clinton campaign this will go no farther then a conspiracy theory.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
harSon said:
Unless they can track down those who did it (lol) and have them single out the Clinton campaign this will go no farther then a conspiracy theory.

Any potential president who carefully rigs the vote so that somebody else wins also needs to be destroyed. :D Unless it was a cunning plot by the Obama campaign to cheat in Hillary's favour and then reveal it and destroy her with it. In which case he's probably just about cunning and evil enough to deserve to win anyway. :p
 

harSon

Banned
iapetus said:
Any potential president who carefully rigs the vote so that somebody else wins also needs to be destroyed. :D

As much as I dislike her... I personally don't think she was that desperate or retarded to do something so vile. At the very most, someone within the campaign was responsible. And even that is pushing it IMO.
 

Square2015

Member
An interesting comparison with '16 as we have just completed the NH primary again.
This was the year NH revived McCain from his grave and sealed the deal for Obama following his recent upset win over HilIary in Iowa which proved he is an electable candidate.

(The last throes of the thread seems to have devolved into a Ron Paul electability discussion.)

There is a lot of HIllary angst in this thread....Did I see she got 39% back then too?
 
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