Support NeoGAF

[Elaugaufein]

So this is a thread for the Australian Marriage Law Postal Survey. I've been putting this off for weeks since I haven't had a chance to put together a decent first post but now time grows short and I primarily want to remind people to return their forms before its too late. I'll fill this in with more detail later but for now:


What Is the Australian Marriage Law Postal Survey ?
A voluntary postal survey of Australian's of voting age to determine community sentiment on the following question:

Should the law be changed to allow same-sex couples to marry?

How is this different from a referendum ?
This is (officially) non-binding, in practice the out come is binding for the life of the current parliament if the result is No. In the case of a majority Yes outcome it is planned to use it to bring on a Free / Conscience vote on the matter in the House of Representatives.

Why ?
Because Tony Abbott.

What are the important dates ?
Form Receipt - You should already have received your form. You have until October 20th to request a replacement if you haven't or it's been lost or damage.
Return of Form - Post it by the 27 October. The last day for receipts is 7 November but forms still in the post at the end of this day will not be counted.
Results Announced - 15 November

 

[Bernbaum]

Why ?
Because Tony Abbott.

Why else.

Someone in the AusPoliGAF thread postulated that old Tones would use the outcome of the survey as an opportunity to attempt to unseat Turnbull. It would be a tone-deaf, ill-informed and unpopular move so I fully expect Tony Abbot to go for it.

 

[toddhunter]

Nice OP.

A national disgrace and a chilling vision of the future where extremely wealthy church groups are able to openly enforce their will on the general population under the cover of “religious freedom”.

I voted yes and felt awful for having to do it.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Right, now that the formal mostly non-partisan stuff is out of the way:
I have no strong opinion. What should I do ?
I strongly encourage you to return the form with Yes marked.

Despite the attempts by the No campaign to muddle the waters on this, there will be no additional restrictions or changes to inherently come from a Yes. In fact many of the issues the no campaign are using are already matters of Australian law.

Namely:
Same-sex couples can already adopt.
Safe Schools (and associated LGBTI educational materials) are already part of the federal educational curriculum and Safe Schools has been abandoned by the Federal Government in light of conservative backlash, though some States continue to support it.
Whether or not SSM is legal will have no effect whatsoever on either of these things.

Churches will continue to be allowed to refuse to hold weddings that violate their doctrine (this is part of fairly general exemptions from discrimination law that religious institutions have in Australia).

A baker may get into civil trouble for refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding,if they bake wedding cakes. It is ~impossible to exempt this without completely gutting non-discrimination law. If you provide Wedding Cakes but refuse to do so for a Same Sex wedding the only reasonable conclusion is that you are refusing service based on sexual attraction which is already barred by non-discrimination law.

By contrast LGBTI people are currently denied the ability to marry for no reason that I can see.

Why aren't you using the term marriage equality ?
Because while I personally feel it is more accurate , I am trying to use the official terms for this OT. You are welcome to the use the term if you wish. I probably will in later posts.

 

[Bernbaum]

Why aren't I using the term marriage equality ?
Because while I personally feel it is more accurate , I am trying to use the official terms for this OT. You are welcome to the use the term if you wish. I probably will in later posts.

The Australian has consistently stuck with SSM in their headlines.

Today's update is that there has been an additional 800,000 surveys received and counted since last week.

I'm of the opinion that whatever votes have already been received are enough to have captured the outcome and that the remaining votes to be submitted won't really influence the outcome.

I'm just hoping we don't see any silly business or stuff-ups from the Yes camp, no hateful crap from the No camp and less beat-ups from the press on 'radical fringe groups'.

 

[firehawk12]

Or, just vote yes because it's the right thing to do.

 

[Elaugaufein]

The Australian has consistently stuck with SSM in their headlines.

Today's update is that there has been an additional 800,000 surveys received and counted since last week.

I'm of the opinion that whatever votes have already been received are enough to have captured the outcome and that the remaining votes to be submitted won't really influence the outcome.

I'm just hoping we don't see any silly business or stuff-ups from the Yes camp, no hateful crap from the No camp and less beat-ups from the press on 'radical fringe groups'.

There's always the risk the outcome is close, so it's wise to vote regardless. At worst you waste a couple of minutes , at best you help to potentially bring something positive out of the idiotic political football match this has become thanks to Abbott and friends.

 

[laoni]

Pretty much everyone I know (as a young, progressive bi woman) has voted yes, except for one girl, who was raised in a religious family and is legitimately afraid of gay men (But women are a-ok)

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

A lot of my friends had to request new papers, though, they didn't receive them the first time around, and there'd been reports of people taking them in the area.

This whole thing's just a mess

 

[toddhunter]

Or, just vote yes because it's the right thing to do.

The right thing to do? Have you not been paying attention to the religious Canadian guy? If this passes then people will not be able to say what they feel.... It would be like every Australian was working for a church group.

...

 

[Elaugaufein]

Pretty much everyone I know (as a young, progressive bi woman) has voted yes, except for one girl, who was raised in a religious family and is legitimately afraid of gay men (But women are a-ok)

¯_(&#12484_/¯

A lot of my friends had to request new papers, though, they didn't receive them the first time around, and there'd been reports of people taking them in the area.

This whole thing's just a mess

Yeah, I got mine but my house mate didn't and had to request a replacement, and we're in inner city Brisbane.

The right thing to do? Have you not been paying attention to the religious Canadian guy? If this passes then people will not be able to say what they feel.... It would be like every Australian was working for a church group.

...

Also Lyle Shelton, Tony Abbott and Eric Abetz who are pretty sure this is going to issue in a Genderless Aetheist Socialist Dystopia with Forced Polyamorous Marriages that includes Infrastructure.

 

[Replicant]

If I have to see one more "Why I'm voting NO" obituaries on Sydney Morning Herald site, I'm going to knock off a shelf. Half of the time the reason(s) are flimsy as Hell and has nothing to do with SS marriage. More along the lines of:

If this passes then people will not be able to say what they feel.... It would be like every Australian was working for a church group.

...

And this too. Because SS marriage is a threat to free speech, apparently.

 

[laoni]

Yeah, I got mine but my house mate didn't and had to request a replacement, and we're in inner city Brisbane.

Yeah, I heard some really stupid stories from Hobart, including a friend having to chase a little old lady down the street because she was stealing his ballot.

It's not like that's a crime or anything.

I'm just...I'm -tired- of this. I'm SICK of every day, seeing something that reminds me that people hate people like me, and friends and family and those dear to me. I'm bi, and so again, we're invisible in all this, but...ugh...

Last time I was in the car, the radio presenter (Who I already hated) was going on about how he'll be voting no because they were 'taking gender out of sex ed and teaching people that people with a penis were not necessarily a boy'. And when someone brought up trans people, he started going around the studio, asking if anyone actually -knew- any trans people. My mother shut off the radio then, because I was literally yelling at it.

 

[FUME5]

This shit show better result in a strong yes vote.

 

[Bernbaum]

at best you help to potentially bring something positive out of the idiotic political football match this has become thanks to Abbott and friends.

My concern is that there aren't any guaranteed outcomes tied to a particular outcome, apart from a clear No vote in which case the Coallition will drop the policy.

If Yes comes in at 51, 55, or 60%, it'll still be politicised to all hell by Abbott and co. that it wasn't a clear enough majority. I think Turnbull's camp are hoping for a clear Yes so they've got a mandate to put forward some version of Dean Smith's private members bill and get the matter out of the headlines.

 

[danm999]

You know it'd be really cool if Yes wins that Abbott and Co drop all their moaning about Safe Schools/gender fluidity/political correctness because if the vote is really about that and goes against them it's the will of the people etc.

Fat chance of that though.

 

[toddhunter]

The irony of the “think of the children” argument from the no camp is I fully agree with it.

“If SSM is passed, children in schools will be taught about gender issues and how being gay is normal!”
“Umm... yes? Good?”

Anecdotally I have a nine year old daughter. I asked her what she thought about it and her excited reply was “vote yes! Can I vote?” When I asked why “yes” she just shrugged “it will give me more options.”

She has friends who have same sex parents (not married obviously) and to her it just isn’t a big deal. Being gay if that is who you are or loving who you love is just normal.

If in doubt, vote yes for the children who have not been brought up to hate, hopefully then they never will be (well until youtube corrupts them, but one battle at a time).

Sorry to vent, but off the back of Trump this whole debate has done my head in.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Mrs Squirrel and I both voted yes. Both my parents voted No.

I fully expect the raw total to be a hilarious ROFLstomp in favour of Yes, but the ABS, being the sticklers for statistical accuracy that they are, will no doubt adjust it down to account for demographics.

 

[Maximo]

Scott Morrison is a complete cunt with his *its ok to vote no* post. https://www.facebook.com/scottmorri...309503&notif_id=1506250733734334&notif_t=like

 

[munchie64]

If nothing else, I'm glad this got a lot of new young voters to register.

Congratulations, you played yourself you nutters.

 

[Yagharek]

If the "no" campaign really cared about the children they wouldn't also be the same people who fought to get chaplains in schools and who tried to stop the royal commission into child abuse by the various churches.

Voted yes along with everyone else I know.

Don't let bigots convince you that Christians are under attack. They have already caused enough harm to the LGBTI communities. They are responsible for a lot of self-harm and suicide due to their conservative themed bullying bullshit.

Thankfully this process has shown there are some christian groups who do have a moral conscience that includes genuine care for gender diversity. That's one small silver lining.

 

[firehawk12]

Mrs Squirrel and I both voted yes. Not my parents voted No.

I fully expect the raw total to be a hilarious ROFLstomp in favour of Yes, but the ABS, being the sticklers for statistical accuracy that they are, will no doubt adjust it down to account for demographics.

The only reason why I don't want to take this for granted is because of Brexit and Trump.

 

[sTiTcH AU]

If nothing else, I'm glad this got a lot of new young voters to register.

Congratulations, you played yourself you nutters.

The thing is though that all these young voters won't give a shit about their vote after this is over. I am interested to see how much in favor the 'yes' vote is (if that is the case) because if this is seriously such a huge issue, then how on earth did Labor not win the last election.

Also, if this passes....what major policy does Labor have for the next election?

 

[Dommo]

Anyone else see this in the Melbourne skies today?

 

[TheMightySkyChicken]

Anyone else see this in the Melbourne skies today?

Which side of Melb?

 

[Dommo]

Which side of Melb?

Collingwood area.

 

[TheMightySkyChicken]

Collingwood area.

Far from mine. Don't get why people go to such lengths sigh

 

[munchie64]

The thing is though that all these young voters won't give a shit about their vote after this is over. I am interested to see how much in favor the 'yes' vote is (if that is the case) because if this is seriously such a huge issue, then how on earth did Labor not win the last election.

Also, if this passes....what major policy does Labor have for the next election?

That's a good point but... I'm just gonna dream for now.

I fully believe that the Yes will be strong though. What it means for the overall political leaning of the country... I have no idea. Maybe people get more concerned about politics when it's one specific thing but a bunch of policies turn people off.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

The only reason why I don't want to take this for granted is because of Brexit and Trump.

Which is why I’m glad it’s the ABS running it and not the AEC.

First past the post voting systems with optional voting are much easier to get an unrepresentative “win” in than surveys.

 

[TrueDefault]

My boss was talking to an old client about this the other day. They knew I voted Yes, and they kept telling me how unnatural it was for same sex people to get married. My boss clearly listened to the conservative ads on Tv about how boys had to wear dresses.

They're both Asians so I wasn't surprised. Can't help but got very angry about their ignorant views though, but I managed to keep it professional.

 

[Grazzt]

My boss was talking to an old client about this the other day. They knew I voted Yes, and they kept telling me how unnatural it was for same sex people to get married. My boss clearly listened to the conservative ads on Tv about how boys had to wear dresses.

They're both Asians so I wasn't surprised. Can't help but got very angry about their ignorant views though, but I managed to keep it professional.

As an Asian myself I’m disgusted by the stance of most Aidan on this. Misleading information prevails on our media platforms, tricking people to think being gay is evil. Some even compare it to beastiality. The most pathetic thing is, most of these ignorant assholes don’t even have right to vote.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

As an Asian myself I’m disgusted by the stance of most Aidan on this. Misleading information prevails on our media platforms, tricking people to think being gay is evil. Some even compare it to beastiality. The most pathetic thing is, most of these ignorant assholes don’t even have right to vote.

On what basis do people in the Asian community condemn marriage equality? Most of the opposition I’ve seen has come from a Christian perspective. Apart from obvious examples, like Vietnamese Catholics etc, that’s not as big a factor in the Asian community.

 

[grimmiq]

Posted my vote the day after I got it, pretty sure my mum voted yes, my dad I'm not sure about. No one in my family talks about it much, but his younger brother was gay and I think died of AIDS in the early 80s, blames "them" for killing his brother. He did ask what I voted and I told him "I don't see a reason to vote no, unless you're religious or a bit of a cunt, or both".


I also heard rumors of people walking down streets taking forms out of mailboxes.

 

[Grazzt]

On what basis do people in the Asian community condemn marriage equality? Most of the opposition I've seen has come from a Christian perspective. Apart from obvious examples, like Vietnamese Catholics etc, that's not as big a factor in the Asian community.

Ignorance.

I also heard rumors of people walking down streets taking forms out of mailboxes.

That's too low

 

[The Giant]

Me and the mrs voted yes. I pretty expect Yes to win.

 

[Chuck Norris]

If I have to see one more "Why I'm voting NO" obituaries on Sydney Morning Herald site, I'm going to knock off a shelf. Half of the time the reason(s) are flimsy as Hell and has nothing to do with SS marriage. More along the lines of:

And this too. Because SS marriage is a threat to free speech, apparently.

Everytime I read "I was going to vote yes but the bullying of the yes campaign made me vote no" I just want to punch the screen

Disgusting homophobes, every last no voter

 

[Chuck Norris]

My boss was talking to an old client about this the other day. They knew I voted Yes, and they kept telling me how unnatural it was for same sex people to get married. My boss clearly listened to the conservative ads on Tv about how boys had to wear dresses.

They're both Asians so I wasn't surprised. Can't help but got very angry about their ignorant views though, but I managed to keep it professional.

Straight up work place bullying, you should complain

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Ignorance.

That goes without saying, but apart from that, is there any basis? It’s not like Confucius praised heterosexuality as the proper role or anything (right? I genuinely don’t know).

It just feels like it’s based on a foundation of thin air.

 

[jdstorm]

It sucks that this debate has turned into an exercise in political opportunism and grandstanding. Recognising that any Australian Citizen should be entitled to a legally recognised marriage and the legal protections that come with that should be a no brainer.

Voted Yes ages ago.

 

[Elaugaufein]

That goes without saying, but apart from that, is there any basis? It’s not like Confucius praised heterosexuality as the proper role or anything (right? I genuinely don’t know).

It just feels like it’s based on a foundation of thin air.

It seems to be loyalty to the Family unit based on the ads and that homosexuality can terminate the family line. Which is a bit odd, because whether or not same sex people can get married has ~0 effect on whether they are going to produce kids for you.

 

[Jezbollah]

So, when will the results officially be announced?

(kind of expecting this to be in the "important dates" part of the OP... )

 

[Bernbaum]

So, when will the results officially be announced?

(kind of expecting this to be in the "important dates" part of the OP... )

November 15th.

A week after last votes received.

 

[Elaugaufein]

So, when will the results officially be announced?

(kind of expecting this to be in the "important dates" part of the OP... )

15 November 2017. Added to OP.

 

[Aarglefarg]

My boss was talking to an old client about this the other day. They knew I voted Yes, and they kept telling me how unnatural it was for same sex people to get married. My boss clearly listened to the conservative ads on Tv about how boys had to wear dresses.

They're both Asians so I wasn't surprised. Can't help but got very angry about their ignorant views though, but I managed to keep it professional.

Earlier in the day of the liberal meeting to decide if they would still go forward with a public vote or free vote, my boss started to complain about 'undemocratic decisions' and asked me repeatedly if I was going to Canberra to vote. He was being absurd and not thinking clearly. I thought until the end of the shift, since I couldn't check, that they had decided on a free vote.

 

[Jezbollah]

15 November 2017. Added to OP.

Cheers sir.

 

[Shaneus]

Pretty much everyone I know (as a young, progressive bi woman) has voted yes, except for one girl, who was raised in a religious family and is legitimately afraid of gay men (But women are a-ok)

¯_(&#12484_/¯

A lot of my friends had to request new papers, though, they didn't receive them the first time around, and there'd been reports of people taking them in the area.

This whole thing's just a mess

Never mind the fact that it's a fucking survey and not legally binding in the slightest.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Never mind the fact that it's a fucking survey and not legally binding in the slightest.

Everyone knows that this government will consider it binding under a single condition - if the result comes back No.

 

[Bishop89]

the ads for 'no' were fucking disgusting to watch.

 

[Grazzt]

That goes without saying, but apart from that, is there any basis? It’s not like Confucius praised heterosexuality as the proper role or anything (right? I genuinely don’t know).

It just feels like it’s based on a foundation of thin air.

Honestly, I don't know. But sometimes you don't need an excuse/basis to hate something.
Most Asian countries are very conservative even though religions play little role there, see China, Japan and South Korea.

 

[bomma_man]

Honestly, I don't know. But sometimes you don't need an excuse/basis to hate something.
Most Asian countries are very conservative even though religions play little role there, see China, Japan and South Korea.

Christianity’s pretty massive in Korea. I’d chalk up the rest to illiberalism.

 

[Jintor]

On what basis do people in the Asian community condemn marriage equality? Most of the opposition I’ve seen has come from a Christian perspective. Apart from obvious examples, like Vietnamese Catholics etc, that’s not as big a factor in the Asian community.

Asian Christianity is huge dude. I would estimate the majority of Asian Australians I know are church going or have family who are.