Aaron Strife
Banned
Oh good. It wasn't really in doubt, but she always left the door open for retirement.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
- Thread starter Aaron Strife
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Nationalizing healthcare is not going to suddenly make private manufacturing less racist and hire more black people.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
What? Are you even following anything about this conversation?
eBay Huckster
Member
Yeah, but it's probably going to make job situations better for black people via more public-sector opportunities, which is... kind of exactly his point.
THERE IS NO DATA ABOUT PRIVATE MANUFACTURING IN THE DATA YOU LINKED.
You are making a claim that "black people over represented in private manufacturing" that is not borne out by the data you provide.
VendettaRed07
Member
Republicans were literally one vote in the senate away from voting on a bill that was crafted by McConnell IN LESS THAN A SINGLE WEEK, that would have caused a recession and kicked 20 million people off of health insurance in a single year all so they could give large corporations a massive tax cut
I refuse to believe a better plan expands coverage and cuts healthcare costs is a wildly unattainable because the devil in the details puts it out of reach
I refuse to believe a better plan expands coverage and cuts healthcare costs is a wildly unattainable because the devil in the details puts it out of reach
Fenderputty
Banned
My point is that the economical effects of transitioning out of a 2.5 million dollar job industry in 4 years isn't comparable to what the free market has done to manufacturing over 50 and how that effects the economy.
I'm not as concerned with the insurance company going poof as much as I am concerned about what will happen to our economy when it does.
Sure, but that's not a good argument to do it. Otherwise you'd just go "solve racism by nationalizing everything!" which...yeah no.
edit: The insurance industry already has a higher proportion of black people than manufacturing
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
A better plan like this isn't unattainable if done correctly, and, as always, there need to be details explaining how.
A plan that takes massive chunks out of people's paychecks (the vast majority of these people who live paycheck to paycheck, by the way) is unattainable.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Hell yeah
We have a very good plan to expand coverage and help reduce costs. It didn't get fully implemented in '09 and that's why we're still stuck at this phase of the process!
Aaron Strife
Banned
Hopefully Ward's brand of craziness makes her vulnerable in the general election, as odds seem pretty good she'll be Sinema's opponent.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Exactly. It's all there. The process should be:
Phase 1: Repair ACA
Phase 2: Implement public option
Phase 3: Move to single-payer
This should be done over the course of years and years, not an instant switch to single-payer. That's probably disastrous for numerous reasons.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Sure. My only point is that the GOP spent 7 years rallying around a symbolic bill that they couldn't ultimately pass because they never bothered with the details (they quite literally made the same argument of "we'll work it out later" that some are using on this discussion).
Symbolic bills become real bills (or are at least expected to). I'm personally not going to hit the pavement to canvas for a bill that I know is missing content. Give me the real one.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
My God you're dense sometimes. Using the figures for the public sector (in the link provided), you can work out how much of each racial group is employed privately. You can the compare this to the average for each private industry, manufacturing included (in the link provided). You'll notice that among black Americans who are privately employed, manufacturing is a disproportionately large employer.
EDIT: I'll do the maths for you. There are 151,346,000 people in work in America. Of those. 16,820,000 are black (11.9%). 22,298,000 people in America work in the public sector. 20.9% of those are black, or 4,660,282 people. That means there are 12,159,718 black Americans working in a private sector of 129,048,000, or 9.4%. Any private industry which employs black workers at above 9.4% is above the private sector average for black employees. That includes manufacturing.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Ward running would also mean sexism shouldn't be as much a factor.
Why not
Campaign for single payer. Draft a bill that includes the aforementioned 3 step off-ramp.
Deal?
Flake trailing a primary challenger by nearly 30 points is hilariously pathetic.
Campaigning on single payer and then settling on an ACA repair/public option bill seems like a surefire to kill the enthusiasm of I don't know how many base voters. The campaign message should focus primarily on shoring up the ACA and implementing a public option (and maybe lowering the Medicare buy-in age too?), with the prospect of single payer as a long-term goal.
But centering a campaign around single payer and then having the first major healthcare bill to result from that campaign be not single-payer seems like it would be a mistake. And I don't think you can pass a bill that forces a timetable on Congress or whomever to begin implementing single-payer after a certain date.
Campaigning on single payer and then settling on an ACA repair/public option bill seems like a surefire to kill the enthusiasm of I don't know how many base voters. The campaign message should focus primarily on shoring up the ACA and implementing a public option (and maybe lowering the Medicare buy-in age too?), with the prospect of single payer as a long-term goal.
But centering a campaign around single payer and then having the first major healthcare bill to result from that campaign be not single-payer seems like it would be a mistake. And I don't think you can pass a bill that forces a timetable on Congress or whomever to begin implementing single-payer after a certain date.
But it's not. It's just not.
They are not over represented there. Even if you ignore the public sector, It's second lowest prior to the blue collar labor jobs where participation falls off a cliff.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I find the distinction between white collar and blue collar to be a little disingenuous in itself. The people employed by the medical industry aren't all making 6 figures. Having been through a few medical issues recently involving a lot of exposure to medical workers, there are plenty of low-income people working these jobs. I'm sure this is even more true on the insurance side where processing the paper is going to be done by the lowest-cost people one can hire.
Just because you sit at a desk doesn't mean you earn more than a guy in work clothes.
Fenderputty
Banned
Plenty of blue color construction workers make 6 figures. Like the majority of my Electrical Foreman make close to that before you count their company truck, gas and bonuses. My GF's make 6 figures with a bonus and a car and gas and my superintendents make even more.
Live better. Work union.
Coriolanus
Banned
as was already pointed out, so does the military budget, and yet there's always dosh for blowing up sand people.
Can always pull a W. and hide the numbers
OT7 title, imo.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I've edited my post with the relevant figures.
EDIT: I suppose you're arguing 'disproportionately large', so fine, I'll give credit and say 'larger than average'. It's true it's not as disproportionate as transport.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Phil Murphy leading the NJ gubernatorial race 58-33
https://poll.qu.edu/new-jersey/release-detail?ReleaseID=2484
Virginia's the only seat up for grabs this year.
https://poll.qu.edu/new-jersey/release-detail?ReleaseID=2484
Virginia's the only seat up for grabs this year.
Mark Andrew
Member
After Christies disastrous second term spent almost exclusively not in New Jersey, Democrats could have nominated a literal dead fish and won.
Coriolanus
Banned
lissen man, sure, kerry might've won, but why risk it again?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I live in NJ and am happy to see this.
No, Flake is just batshit stupid.
Basileus777
Member
It's going to be a while before the Republicans can even compete in statewide races in NJ. The state GOP is going to have to reinvent itself too because NJ's demographics will soon put the rest any hope of winning statewide races on the backs of white people.
Aaron Strife
Banned
It's like Flake is deliberately trying to upset everyone.
On one hand, he's been very vocal in his criticisms of Trump, to the displeasure of the Republican base.
On the other, outside of being okay on immigration he's done very little towards actually cultivating a moderate voting record and has pretty much been a rubber stamp R vote, meaning Democrats and skeptical Independents have no reason to give him any benefit of the doubt.
On one hand, he's been very vocal in his criticisms of Trump, to the displeasure of the Republican base.
On the other, outside of being okay on immigration he's done very little towards actually cultivating a moderate voting record and has pretty much been a rubber stamp R vote, meaning Democrats and skeptical Independents have no reason to give him any benefit of the doubt.
You need a message that's easy for the public to grab onto and understand. "Medicare for all" as an opt-in along side private insurance choices seems like a good route to go. It's essentially the same as a public option, and a strong move towards single payer without having to explain either of those things to the public.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Classic Mueller. I imagine this is being done to put pressure on Flynn to cooperate.
Mark Andrew
Member
Beer Monkey
Member
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Yep, I've thought the same.
I think you are way off on the employment figures in healthcare.
This says 12.5 million across the US as of 2015.
http://www.kff.org/other/state-indi...t&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}
And manufacturing at the same level per https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES3000000001
Edit: oh you meant health insurance employment only. Nevermind.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
That's healthcare total, not healthcare insurance. Hospitals and so on would still exist as they currently do.
EDIT: oh, I see what you mean, I didn't specify healthcare insurance in my original post. Yes, that should have read 'healthcare insurance industry employs 2.5 million people', you're quite right.
BronsonLee
Member
Wasn't he super loud and boisterous on Twitter about all this stuff
jack_package_200
Banned
He was a Pizzagator.
Frank the Great
Banned
Fucking dope. Blue trifecta next year.
As a NJ public worker I can't wait for Christie to leave.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Hospitals are starting to offer their own insurance. A hospital around my area has been buying up facilities for years with the intention of offering a plan that works in their network for a low cost, with a high deductible for out of network costs.
The healthcare industry is intertwined. It's hard to separate the insurance part from the actual healthcare part.
Drastic changes in insurance companies would also effect the industry as a whole.
After both our edits, back on topic.
I'm not convinced as many hospitals/doctors/clinics would exist. Right now there is a certain amount of over-supply due to the profitability of the industry. Reducing or eliminating that profit and exploitation would surely reduce the number of minute-clinics, pharmacies and so forth that offer largely duplicative services. Maybe not surgeons, doctors, nurses, but more of the soft retail healthcare part of it.
As Ballad points out above, there are also a variety of new insurance models from regional to concierge styles which would also be directly affected.
Have you ever considered that white supremacy taking root in rural areas might be an inevitable consequence of people living in those isolated, homogenous places, and that having less people living in them would be beneficial to society as a whole?
This isn't to say that we shouldn't be helping people w/ the transition, because of course we should, but the fact that the economy is discouraging people from investing in rural areas and encouraging people to move from them isn't inherently a bad thing!
Nobody is arguing this?
I'm actually surprised at how completely this misunderstands the concerns people have about an overly vague single-payer bill. Wouldn't this post be better directed at whoever you're talking to?
Edit: okay, I just woke up. You gave specifics on the next page
neurosisxeno
Member
It's a good read. I think a lot of the "Clinton should just go away" is subtle sexism and intellectually dishonest. She was a major presidential candidate who suffered a dramatic upset, and you think she should just vanish? Bernie Sanders lost the Democratic Primary, and he won't seem to shut the fuck up but nobody is asking him to sit down and shut up.
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