That would be big of me. No wait, bigamy.
Either way, since it ain't legal, I'm not tempted.
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Pope Francis suggests gay marriage threatens traditional families
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Either way, since it ain't legal, I'm not tempted.
PdotMichael
Banned
Though the amount of catholics is shrinking in most places outside of Africa and Asia!
Please understand.
exmachina64
Banned
In Catholicism:
Relativism is a Catholic reference to the influence of secularism and "Eastern" philosophies (i.e. cultural and spiritual relativism is viewed negatively because it removes Christian influence from society). Ephemerialism refers to secular culture. "Closed to life" means supporting abortion, using contraceptives, and supporting gay marriage.
It isn't hard to decode.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Talking about ideological colonization in The Philippenes...?
Ironic.
Ironic.
Poltergust
Member
It's kind of sad that this scenario played out so many times in the past when one of the spouses is gay.
I hope that the Pope will eventually realize that he's advocating for a large group of people to live their lives alone and/or unhappy.
exmachina64
Banned
He's always had these views, they're not covered by the media much. He's not shifting his views for each country.
John Kowalski
Banned
Pope's gonna Pope.
It dilutes and challenges the sacrosanctity of traditional marriage as a pillar of society. It's not traditional marriage that is being challenged, it's its dominance.
It's religion we're talking about.
It dilutes and challenges the sacrosanctity of traditional marriage as a pillar of society. It's not traditional marriage that is being challenged, it's its dominance.
It's religion we're talking about.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
Stop trying to make "good Pope" happen, you guys.
It's never happening.
It's never happening.
PhantomHound
Banned
Still the best pope.
John Kowalski
Banned
In the land of the blind...
DiipuSurotu
Banned
gutter_trash
Banned
the current economic model of over inflated home prices and rising cost of living is the real threat to traditional families
so many young people are putting off starting a family due to the rising cost of living
so many young people are putting off starting a family due to the rising cost of living
M0nochromatic
Member
Coolest pope flew too high too fast and now he's falling back into that cesspit of traditionalism. What a shame.
Tesseract
Banned
you bastard, i loved you.
Hari Seldon
Member
I think the threat to families is the "culture of ephemeral" view of marriage. I.e. it is just a temporary arrangement until you get bored or find someone new, children be damned. Single parenting is not the optimal setup in most circumstance, especially when you consider the majority of Catholics don't exactly live in western democracies with quality social welfare support.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Wasn't it pretty well known that Francis had issues with gay people? I remember something to do with women (maybe female priests?) as well but that may have been someone else.
Anyways, he's still more progressive then the wide majority of the Vatican. Baby steps, I suppose.
Anyways, he's still more progressive then the wide majority of the Vatican. Baby steps, I suppose.
Neuromancer
Member
I am no longer happy with this pope. Come on Pope, liven up a little.
??? He talked inside of what their dogma allowed tough since they don't consider being gay sinful, instead is the sexual activity the one that they consider "moral dissorder" and "against the natural law", people who acted amazed at those comments were bound to be disappointed eventually.
For the record, I am not catholic but was raised in a VERY catholic family and received the Communion so I really cannot falter the people who believed that he was going to bring a radical change to their church =/
teruterubozu
Member
He's been very openly critical about American nuns and the feminist agenda within the church.
DragonSworne
Banned
"...redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life”
The pope is attacking science, atheists, and the pro choice crowd too here. That's 3 strikes in one sentence. Pope Francis is dead to me.
The pope is attacking science, atheists, and the pro choice crowd too here. That's 3 strikes in one sentence. Pope Francis is dead to me.
Liamario
Banned
He was never cool and his opinions certainly haven't changed. Unfortunately humans are very naive.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Just once, I want to see the Pope end one of these addresses with "Yours, Frank".
He really would be the best pope ever after that.
He really would be the best pope ever after that.
Alcoremortis
Member
I think that it might be harder for celibate religious leaders to understand that point of view.
Arch-angels in the fifth dimension are all like "yooo pass it 'pon the left hand side" and this is the message he comes back with? Something got lost in translation. Never trust a man to deliver the word of god. Nuh-uh, not now, not evah. Jah bless.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
People acting like the Pope was hunched over with a pencil erasing pages out of the bible. How much do you expect him to upend here in one go?? The fact that he is echoing words of peace and love for one another over the usual horseshit is a huge step up. But it's still Catholicism, these quips are to be expected. Baby steps.
Shock!
Dude Abides
Banned
Redefine the institution means gay marriage. Also a shot at contraception in there as well.
jonnyp
Member
No pope has or ever will be cool
Fenderputty
Banned
.
He just doesn't want religious people being judgmental and mean about their beliefs. He's not changing their beliefs.
To be fair, you're only considering one scenario that you perhaps uncritically take to be paradigmatic: that of someone with a uniformly established, exclusive, lifelong and unchanging sexual attraction towards the same sex. We seem to have plenty of evidence that those individuals exist, particularly men; but there are also, without question, countless cases of same-sex relationships that emerge in a very different manner, one that by no means excludes the possibility of that same individual ending up in a heterosexual relationship. Not only those who claim to be bisexual in attraction, but also those for whom it shifts -- for instance, women who end up in a same-sex relationship after a failed marriage or for other reasons late in life. It's a fairly well-documented phenomenon even in popular publications, which means that it is dishonest to suggest uniformly that all or even the overwhelming majority of those engaged in homosexual relationships were always definitively excluded from having authentically heterosexual relationships or marriages under different circumstances.
That being said, when someone speaks of damage to marriage as an institution, it isn't typically thought of only in those terms of each individual, but more as a matter of the broader shifts in the understanding of marriage, of which homosexual marriage is seen as only one part of an equation rather than a source of anything. That's what the Pope was getting at with the broader language; not a code-word for gay marriage, but a way of encompassing all the related shifts (embrace of easy divorce, increasingly technological and contractual rather than natural approaches to having children, and yes, alternative relationships like gay marriage as well as the increasing acceptance of "open" models) without citing any one thing in alarmist fashion as the sole cause. The concern of the church is that each of these leads to a further step in shifting the public understanding away from what the church sees as the higher meaning of marriage and sexuality, which in the most general terms is the polar opposite of our current sexual language which tends to be centered on self-fulfillment, rights, individual choice, etcetera. It's a deep divide, not one confined to gay marriage.
This is just a matter of interpreting him correctly in terms of the broader disagreements the church has with our contemporary thinking on marriage and sexuality, however you may feel about the truth of those assertions, and of course I don't expect them to be widely affirmed here.
Not exactly. There is an increasing use of surrogacy, IVF, and other models to produce children for homosexual couples; the notion that it's only a matter of existing kids getting adopted is increasingly out of step with reality as these methods gain more and more traction. And that is where it becomes a particularly big issue for the Catholic church. They fundamentally oppose reducing human reproduction to something controlled by technology, contractual laws, or the market. It's a kind of bio-ethics that is very deep in Catholic belief.
"Disgusting" is a bit strong, even if one disagrees. To make it more palatable, think of them as akin to extremely strident organic farmers and free-range advocates. The belief at stake is that the human being should only ever be formed naturally by a couple who has made a lifelong vow to each other to be parents, and that anything which intentionally brings a new life into being under the context of planning (under contract, payment, or just arrangement) to separate the child from its two biological parents is a deeply moral problem. This is in reference to IVF when it involves a third party gamete, but of course their position is more comprehensive in its suspicion of technologically altering the process of conception.
If i should even need to note this, i do not endorse nor excuse the veiled homophobic behavior of the catholic church.
May need a pinch of perspective, here.
The pope is in the Vatican, which is to say, Italy.
Italy has the third-lowest fertility rate of the world (1.4), after South Korea and Japan, and is going through a pretty harsh demographic crisis, with 2x the number of 29-34ers than 0-4ers, and 27% pension tax.
So, yes. At the moment, more reproduction would very much be helpful in italy.
May need a pinch of perspective, here.
The pope is in the Vatican, which is to say, Italy.
Italy has the third-lowest fertility rate of the world (1.4), after South Korea and Japan, and is going through a pretty harsh demographic crisis, with 2x the number of 29-34ers than 0-4ers, and 27% pension tax.
So, yes. At the moment, more reproduction would very much be helpful in italy.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Religion gonna religion.
Fenderputty
Banned
I know what you're saying, but I always think it's weird the Vatican is it's own Country.
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