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Rime Creative Director: "Reading Neogaf made me cry for two days"
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
More than one, actually! I lurk a bit more, but I do come out when people start posting 'fix it Jason!'
JimmyHoffa04
Neo Member
I'm going to guess that most people doubling down on this ("he needs thicker skin", "what does he expect", etc.) probably have never created anything (of scale) in their lives. Pouring years of your life into your vision... sacrificing sleep, birthdays, money, precious time with loved ones, ...these are real, meaningful aspects of life that suffer. Then to have people with zero experience in what you're doing (and zero ability to understand the sacrifice) just shit on your vision from their high towers of ignorance. Yeah, it sucks.
Icedburden
Member
If you can't accept that not everyone is going to like the things you do, then yes, you will be miserable.
DirtyLarry
Member
I have been lurking in this thread and did not say anything out of not wanting to get perma banned, but it has been truly infuriating reading some of the comments.
This is incredibly well stated and I am only an artist who has at most spent a few months on one project. And I still know how one comment can affect me.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I don't get it, do you just want to receive praise for all your work and never a criticism?
"Criticism" they said.
JimmyHoffa04
Neo Member
Gaf isn't known for its constructive criticism.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I do not understand why my criticism has to be constructive. If I don't like something, then I don't like it. Whether the creator learns from it or not isn't on me.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
More often than not people are also so very quick in categorizing criticism of something they like or do as "hating."
Do we really need to make "how hard they're working on it" as a barrier before we can give a criticism or a negative comment about something? That's just rather silly, isn't it?
Do you know what tone is?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Hey all,
I just wanted to chime in and say hi!
Also, the internet can be a cruel place and someone who pours their heart and soul into a project is undoubtedly going to take to heart what people say positive or negative (though we tend to hold on to negative a little more closely).
I can tell you that, while there has been some concerned criticism over various aspects of RiME discussed here, we also appreciate all of the feedback and thoughts on various aspects of what we've shared with the community since we re-revealed in January.
That being said we are very excited for the May 26th release of the Xbox One, PC and PS4 version of RiME (we still do not have a Switch release date to announce yet (sorry)). When that day comes I will be all over GAF reading what you guys have to say about it!
Thanks again, and of course if there is ever any questions don't hesitate to reach out to me!
Also, hi
~Tim
I just wanted to chime in and say hi!
Also, the internet can be a cruel place and someone who pours their heart and soul into a project is undoubtedly going to take to heart what people say positive or negative (though we tend to hold on to negative a little more closely).
I can tell you that, while there has been some concerned criticism over various aspects of RiME discussed here, we also appreciate all of the feedback and thoughts on various aspects of what we've shared with the community since we re-revealed in January.
That being said we are very excited for the May 26th release of the Xbox One, PC and PS4 version of RiME (we still do not have a Switch release date to announce yet (sorry)). When that day comes I will be all over GAF reading what you guys have to say about it!
Thanks again, and of course if there is ever any questions don't hesitate to reach out to me!
Also, hi
~Tim
EscapingJail
Member
Hey all,
I just wanted to chime in and say hi!
Also, the internet can be a cruel place and someone who pours their heart and soul into a project is undoubtedly going to take to heart what people say positive or negative (though we tend to hold on to negative a little more closely).
I can tell you that, while there has been some concerned criticism over various aspects of RiME discussed here, we also appreciate all of the feedback and thoughts on various aspects of what we've shared with the community since we re-revealed in January.
That being said we are very excited for the May 26th release of the Xbox One, PC and PS4 version of RiME (we still do not have a Switch release date to announce yet (sorry)). When that day comes I will be all over GAF reading what you guys have to say about it!
Thanks again, and of course if there is ever any questions don't hesitate to reach out to me!
Also, hi
~Tim
Could you explain to us what posts made him cry? It's hard for me to personally understand what would make someone get to that point. Looking at the history of the game there seems to be good reason for some people to be skeptical.
I don't really get it, but some people legitimately think that working hard on something entitles them to immunity from criticism.
I've worked hard on projects only for them to be pieces of shit in the end. The means don't justify the end.
Sigh all you want, but your response to "creators can get attached" was "omg, we can't say anything?". Hyperbole, straw man, you name it.
Even if I wanted to (Which, I don't see the value of), I don't know which ones they are. I cannot speak directly for him but I would PERSONALLY make the assumption that it was a turn of phrase more than an actual event that occurred. But I am not speaking on his behalf.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
JimmyHoffa04
Neo Member
Most on the internet lack the expertise necessary to offer meaningful criticism. This means people are not offering constructive criticism, they are just spewing words (mostly negative) out of their mouths. If you were to say "hey, this dev could really use a pass on their light settings in the Project Settings, and push up their bloom a bit, and use less detail in their textures (flat would match their character shader better)... then that would be actual, meaningful criticism. This kind of criticism would not make the dev cry.
outunderthestars
Banned
Hope the game comes out and is well received.
That said, I really don't care if someone got their feelings hurt by the conversations GAF has had a out the game. It's not our job to get hyped by a bs trailer and a poorly conceived marketing plan.
That said, I really don't care if someone got their feelings hurt by the conversations GAF has had a out the game. It's not our job to get hyped by a bs trailer and a poorly conceived marketing plan.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Well, let me see here.
Do you really need to be an expert at movie-making to be able to criticize a movie?
Do you really need to know all the ins and out of the music industry before you criticize a song an artist make?
Do you really need to become as prolific as JR. Tolkien or Stephen King before you can criticize a novel?
Do you really need to have a degree in architecture before you can look at a building and say, "that shit looks ugly"?
And so,
Why would we need to know all the ins and outs of how to make a video game before we can criticize a game or think that it sucks and voice our opinion about its suckyness?
Also this:
Oh and
Lol, okay, sure buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night.
I really wish you guys would be given the opportunity to make a sequel.
These things should not be announced until there's something set in stone. It just leads to doubt and disappointment.
Why fake a trailer? Why pretend you have something when you don't? It's empty publicity when you have nothing to show for it and will only turn away customers when they find out.
Why fake a trailer? Why pretend you have something when you don't? It's empty publicity when you have nothing to show for it and will only turn away customers when they find out.
JimmyHoffa04
Neo Member
You're proving the point but are too inexperienced in any of the subjects you listed to realize it.
Yes, if you had a real understanding of making movies, producing music, writing fiction, or architecture, yes you would have the underlining understand of why certain choices were made and be able to appreciate them in a meaningful way (more meaningful than "well I don't like it." or "this game looks bad.")
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I don't think taking in every single criticism and implementing the fix on the next game is actually the best thing. It will lose its own identity, catering to only a core crowd and will not innovate or bring new things to the table.
See FFXIII-2, it's not a bad game but it took in a lot of the comments and implemented it and the game feels like a weird mish-mash of things that the fans demanded and not necessarily bringing anything new to the table.
Criticism is fine but it depends on what the developers will take in or ignore.
See FFXIII-2, it's not a bad game but it took in a lot of the comments and implemented it and the game feels like a weird mish-mash of things that the fans demanded and not necessarily bringing anything new to the table.
Criticism is fine but it depends on what the developers will take in or ignore.
Yes, you can provide better, constructive criticism if you're in the know, but you can just as well detail and explain your grievances from a consumer perspective.
This whole criticism debate is a red herring.
Using that logic, saying anything positive about something without being an expert is equally pointless. Time to get rid of discussion forums.
RayearthRob
Member
"I don't like it because of X." -> Ok.
"I don't like it because of X. Lazy devs, can't make a good game... I hope this game fails. Bla bla bla" -> Toxic and useless.
Well, that's just my opinion.
"I don't like it because of X. Lazy devs, can't make a good game... I hope this game fails. Bla bla bla" -> Toxic and useless.
Well, that's just my opinion.
AlexFlame116
Member
You know what? Thank you for posting. Especially in this thread. We're not perfect here at all but it's reassuring that at least the developers at RiME (well, maybe not the Creative Director...) still want to communicate with us.Hey all,
I just wanted to chime in and say hi!
Also, the internet can be a cruel place and someone who pours their heart and soul into a project is undoubtedly going to take to heart what people say positive or negative (though we tend to hold on to negative a little more closely).
I can tell you that, while there has been some concerned criticism over various aspects of RiME discussed here, we also appreciate all of the feedback and thoughts on various aspects of what we've shared with the community since we re-revealed in January.
That being said we are very excited for the May 26th release of the Xbox One, PC and PS4 version of RiME (we still do not have a Switch release date to announce yet (sorry)). When that day comes I will be all over GAF reading what you guys have to say about it!
Thanks again, and of course if there is ever any questions don't hesitate to reach out to me!
Also, hi
~Tim
gotta steel yourself, the internet is a harsh place, Imagine all the restaurant managers having to deal with the massive trashcan that is Tripadvisor, there's nothing you can do. It's probably best to ignore them altogether
yet, Gaf is probably one of the least toxic gaming forums around, there are way, way worse communities, like OW's where every single thread is shitting on the game
yet, Gaf is probably one of the least toxic gaming forums around, there are way, way worse communities, like OW's where every single thread is shitting on the game
JimmyHoffa04
Neo Member
By all means, spew distaste all you like (or praise all you like), but when the creator says they are offended, don't double-down on what was said as if it has any real value. He was offended because he pours everything into his work; it might not be a very logical response for him to have, but it is a very human response.
The take away for people on the internet is: know your opinion has no constructive qualities, that way if you offend someone, you can respond properly.
Yep, you'll see the same alt right/status quo apologizing in those threads as in certain gaming threads. I also started to pretend Bernie and Hillary threads don't exist. It's better that way.
... You will?
If I say why I dislike something, that's a constructive quality. But thanks for grouping me with the shitposters.
camequipped
Member
OK to cry when you have all that paper to soak up the tears.
Hey all,
I just wanted to chime in and say hi!
Also, the internet can be a cruel place and someone who pours their heart and soul into a project is undoubtedly going to take to heart what people say positive or negative (though we tend to hold on to negative a little more closely).
I can tell you that, while there has been some concerned criticism over various aspects of RiME discussed here, we also appreciate all of the feedback and thoughts on various aspects of what we've shared with the community since we re-revealed in January.
That being said we are very excited for the May 26th release of the Xbox One, PC and PS4 version of RiME (we still do not have a Switch release date to announce yet (sorry)). When that day comes I will be all over GAF reading what you guys have to say about it!
Thanks again, and of course if there is ever any questions don't hesitate to reach out to me!
Also, hi
~Tim
Thanks for chiming in, I think it always helps when devs or game reps jump in to the conversation (as tough as that is sometimes I'm sure).
All the speculation and pre-release hand-wringing usually goes away after a game ships and the game can speak for itself. I'm looking forward to May 26th so we can actually experience/discuss RiME rather than what we think it is!
JimmyHoffa04
Neo Member
Weltall Zero
Member
Ironically (they have to be similar even in that) there's a poster exactly like that in the Zelda thread too. Besides making a point to complain about the game at least four times per page, he eventually went on to say how much he had disliked the 370 hours (!) it took for him to 100% the game. Just another footnote on the "Why I've stopped trying to understand people" book.
But yeah, it seems to be a popular opinion that cynicism and negativity = edgy and cool. Not much that can be done except waiting for them to grow up... and be replaced by the next batch of moody teenagers.
I mean that Spanish media in general is full of shit, Spanish gaming media is doubly full of shit, and Spanish forums are a full triple sundae of shit with guano on top. I would know, I've lived here all 40 years of my life. I wouldn't trust a Spanish forum to tell me if the Sun is rising tomorrow.
On another subject, I think you mentioned (sorry if it wasn't you) that Tequila devs passed CGI target renders as game footage. Does anyone have the source on that? Because if true that would change my stance on them pretty dramatically.
SameI'm still excited for RIME developer guy.
But if you say why you don't like something it gives a better insight into why something might not fit well with you! Now, in some cases, people will not like something and not know why. Something about it may not sit well with them and that is fine!
One of the staples of my role is collecting feedback to give to the team that puts the game together(RiME is a single player game so this part really applies to games as a service less an SP experience). I cannot go back to them and say 'He didn't like it' because they are going to say why. If I can respond with 'players are just not feeling this change, they cannot explain why but there is something about it that is just not settling well with them' is far more powerful than 'didn't like it'.
Hope that gives you some insight if I ever ask you why in the future! My personal motto is positive feedback is good for morale, critical feedback is good for the game.
<3
King Gilga
Member
What about just plain old 'I don't like it.'
That's his problem and noone elses. Most people know what it's like to pour their heart and soul into something and not have it received well, doesn't mean they need to cry about it or be babied.
I'm still not getting it.
You can explain your dislikes without any expertise whatsoever.
That's basically what I say in the post you're quoting.
You want to give destructive ideologies a fare shake?
Hey, Tim!Hey all,
I just wanted to chime in and say hi!
Also, the internet can be a cruel place and someone who pours their heart and soul into a project is undoubtedly going to take to heart what people say positive or negative (though we tend to hold on to negative a little more closely).
I can tell you that, while there has been some concerned criticism over various aspects of RiME discussed here, we also appreciate all of the feedback and thoughts on various aspects of what we've shared with the community since we re-revealed in January.
That being said we are very excited for the May 26th release of the Xbox One, PC and PS4 version of RiME (we still do not have a Switch release date to announce yet (sorry)). When that day comes I will be all over GAF reading what you guys have to say about it!
Thanks again, and of course if there is ever any questions don't hesitate to reach out to me!
Also, hi
~Tim
Just know that there's a lot of us on here that appreciate you guys hearing us out and even interacting with us. Games PR and community management can be tough and I respect the heck out of anyone who does it
If your criticism has no real substance and nothing to offer, it's probably better off not being said. You know the old adage.
If you blatantly don't like something, why even comment? If you intended to like something, and ended up not liking it, it should be easy to compare your initial ideal vision to your actual lackluster experience and point out the differences to offer constructive criticism.
Sure, artists and creators should find ways dismiss destructive criticism, however that's easier said then done. They should value the opinions of their peers more than some faceless individual behind the web, because having knowledge about a subject does give you a more informed opinion, and will usually contain a better critique.
Sometimes holding back your criticism mean accepting that a creation is not for you. There are countless games, bands, and movies that I don't like, but plenty of other people like Metal Gear, the current version of Linkin Park, and whatever Fast and Furious movie we are up to now. I'm happy not paying attention to them and instead enjoying stuff that appeals to me like Puppeteer, sleepmakeswaves, and MacGruber.