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[AlexFlame116]

You know, I'll he honest, all this talk is actually really making me want to play RiME and experience it for myself.

But I'm waiting for the Switch version. Want to go in with no negative or positive feelings because of a previous playthrough if that makes any sense.

 

[kiaaa]

If your criticism has no real substance and nothing to offer, it's probably better off not being said. You know the old adage.

If you blatantly don't like something, why even comment? If you intended to like something, and ended up not liking it, it should be easy to compare your initial ideal vision to your actual lackluster experience and point out the differences to offer constructive criticism.

I mean, this is a discussion forum where people are meant to share their opinions.

 

[JimmyHoffa04]

I'm still not getting it.
You can explain your dislikes without any expertise whatsoever.

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's all pretend we are at a wine tasting. As a group we order a 50 year old bottle of wine that cost several thousand dollars. The majority of our group are first time wine goers that have never drank wine before. We all pour our glasses, and the first timers collectively take their first sip and quickly spit it back out. They all exclaim in unison that the wine taste horrible, smells bad, and that they just plain "don't like it."

One person in our group is a Chef that doesn't have much experience in wine, who also doesn't care much for the taste, but because he is an expert in food, he understands that 'taste' is very complex. He knows that his brain needs time to understand the layers of the wine to properly categorize it (bitter, sweet, mellow, etc.). He imagines that with time he will most likely come to appreciate the taste of this wine, or at least understand it enough to have a meaningful conversation about the wine with a more seasoned drinker.

The few wine experts in our group don't sip their wine right away. They first swirl their wine in their glasses a few times (letting the wine open up more to mellow it out), give the wine a long smell to ready their senses, and then finally give it a taste. They begin to marvel in it's reverence and depth. They are amazed at how its taste changes and matures after each sip. They finish the bottle saying, "that was the best wine I've ever had."

The first timers all look at each other and can't understand what the experts are talking about. "It's just plain awful! How can you not taste that!?" said one first timer. Another said, "Well it's just my opinion, but I think it's undrinkable. I'm going to write to the maker of this wine and let them know ('without any expertise whatsoever' [your quote]) that their wine is less than garbage, and no one should waste their time with it!"

 

[Wozman23]

I mean, this is a discussion forum where people are meant to share their opinions.

True, and my comment was mainly coming from the perspective of having opinions about released products. But it can be extended to news and rumors as well. As with many platforms, peoples' opinions aren't always informed ones. As with much of the media, people are often quick to join the zeitgeist before they even know all the facts.

In RiME's case, rumors of trickery or poor development appeared, and people thought the sky was falling. Now, with the release approaching, RiME appears to be a competent game.

In The Order: 1886's case - a game I think is second only to Horizon as the best AAA game this generation - people looked at the lackluster reviews and were lambasting it before the product even hit the shelves. While there are still a lot of people that didn't like the game, that have given sound reasons, the threads that appear these days have far less dogpilling.

Rinse and repeat with Mass Effect: Andromeda.

People are very knee-jerk. I'm more of an innocent until proven guilty guy. Instead of assuming the worst based on less-than-stellar info, I try to remain impartial and cautiously optimistic. It usually works well for me. I'm rarely a victim of hype and hardly ever play the role of the asshole.

 

[kiaaa]

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's all pretend we are at a wine tasting. As a group we order a 50 year old bottle of wine that cost several thousand dollars. The majority of our group are first time wine goers that have never drank wine before. We all pour our glasses, and the first timers collectively take their first sip and quickly spit it back out. They all exclaim in unison that the wine taste horrible, smells bad, and that they just plain "don't like it."

One person in our group is a Chef that doesn't have much experience in wine, who also doesn't care much for the taste, but because he is an expert in food, he understands that 'taste' is very complex. He knows that his brain needs time to understand the layers of the wine to properly categorize it (bitter, sweet, mellow, etc.). He imagines that with time he will most likely come to appreciate the taste of this wine, or at least understand it enough to have a meaningful conversation about the wine with a more seasoned drinker.

The few wine experts in our group don't sip their wine right away. They first swirl their wine in their glasses a few times (letting the wine open up more to mellow it out), give the wine a long smell to ready their senses, and then finally give it a taste. They begin to marvel in it's reverence and depth. They are amazed at how its taste changes and matures after each sip. They finish the bottle saying, "that was the best wine I've ever had."

The first timers all look at each other and can't understand what the experts are talking about. "It's just plain awful! How can you not taste that!?" said one first timer. Another said, "Well it's just my opinion, but I think it's undrinkable. I'm going to write to the maker of this wine and let them know ('without any expertise whatsoever' [your quote]) that their wine is less than garbage, and no one should waste their time with it!"

Ignoring the less than subtle condescension, why would the wine maker give a shit about the first timers in this scenario? The wine's audience is obviously enthusiasts. With that said, the opinions of the first timers are still valid and useful for marketing.

And even then, the wine enthusiasts aren't wine makers and like GAF (gaming enthusiasts whether you like it or not), don't necessarily have insight into the creative process. Their opinions are equally useless when we're using your logic.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I do not understand why my criticism has to be constructive. If I don't like something, then I don't like it. Whether the creator learns from it or not isn't on me.

The post you quoted was itself a response to this:

I don't get it, do you just want to receive praise for all your work and never a criticism?

So yes, if your criticism is not constructive, by definition the creator is not benefitting from it: why would they want it? You're entitled to hold and state it, as long as you don't delude yourself into thinking the creator should be grateful for it.

Also, criticism of the form "this sucks", with no further elaboration, is kind of antithetical to GAF. It's low signal to noise, not unlike other forms of fluff like port-begging, "first!" posts and so on. If the only functional difference is that it's not bannable, it might be time to reconsider if it's worth the keystrokes and forum space.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

What do people who like to spam "this is trash" type posts expect devs to do with that? If you just need to vent then cool but don't pretend that's actionable feedback

 

[xch1n]

An actual post on this board about a game said that the programmers shouldn't be allowed to work on games again because the poster hated the game so much. So like, yeah, you can read that and understand that it's hyperbole and not constructive.

But that's not something that's easy to forget at an emotional level. At least for me.

 

[Renekton]

If you can't accept that not everyone is going to like the things you do, then yes, you will be miserable.

Which is why 1st world adults are miserable, we let narcissists be leaders, depression is a big global epidemic, and we post bitterly in NeoGAF. Few humans can accept it, maybe you are stronger than average.

 

[HStallion]

An artists rendition of GAF's hivemind reaction to developer woes:

 

[JimmyHoffa04]

Ignoring the less than subtle condescension, why would the wine maker give a shit about the first timers in this scenario? The wine's audience is obviously enthusiasts. With that said, the opinions of the first timers are still valid and useful for marketing.

And even then, the wine enthusiasts aren't wine makers and like GAF (gaming enthusiasts whether you like it or not), don't necessarily have insight into the creative process. Their opinions are equally useless when we're using your logic.

Not trying to be condescending, just making an analogy. If you felt personally slighted, it was not intended--sorry either way.

The analogy was not about the wine maker, it was about the first timers. Regardless of how the wine maker reacts to the feedback of the first timers, it is the first timers that are not able to see past their opinion, or that their opinion might be less valid than others with more experience. As the analogy shows, their opinion IS less valid and should be ignored by the wine maker (in regards to the quality of the product); as you said, the wine is for enthusiasts. The moral of the analogy is that the first timers are unable to see their fallacy because of their inexperience. They don't know enough to know they don't know enough. It's their ignorance that allows them to fool themselves into thinking they have an opinion of value (in regards to wine).

Let me ask, if a wine maker lets a first timer know they were offended by their brash feedback, wouldn't it be right for the first timer to self reflex and tell the wine maker that they shouldn't feel bad after all, because they have realized their opinion is limited? Or should the first timer not self reflex and double-down by telling the wine maker, "Yes, you should feel bad! Your wine sucks! How dare you feel bad that I told you your wine sucks! If you feel bad, and if others feel tell you to not feel bad, then you and everyone else is wrong! You're a baby! And your wine is garbage!" -a first timer

Also, the "first timers" on the internet haven't even tasted the wine of Rime yet, they have only looked at the "label" on the bottle, yet their distaste is loud and clear. So the problem is even worse than the analogy.

 

[The Wart]

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's all pretend we are at a wine tasting. As a group we order a 50 year old bottle of wine that cost several thousand dollars. The majority of our group are first time wine goers that have never drank wine before. We all pour our glasses, and the first timers collectively take their first sip and quickly spit it back out. They all exclaim in unison that the wine taste horrible, smells bad, and that they just plain "don't like it."

One person in our group is a Chef that doesn't have much experience in wine, who also doesn't care much for the taste, but because he is an expert in food, he understands that 'taste' is very complex. He knows that his brain needs time to understand the layers of the wine to properly categorize it (bitter, sweet, mellow, etc.). He imagines that with time he will most likely come to appreciate the taste of this wine, or at least understand it enough to have a meaningful conversation about the wine with a more seasoned drinker.

The few wine experts in our group don't sip their wine right away. They first swirl their wine in their glasses a few times (letting the wine open up more to mellow it out), give the wine a long smell to ready their senses, and then finally give it a taste. They begin to marvel in it's reverence and depth. They are amazed at how its taste changes and matures after each sip. They finish the bottle saying, "that was the best wine I've ever had."

The first timers all look at each other and can't understand what the experts are talking about. "It's just plain awful! How can you not taste that!?" said one first timer. Another said, "Well it's just my opinion, but I think it's undrinkable. I'm going to write to the maker of this wine and let them know ('without any expertise whatsoever' [your quote]) that their wine is less than garbage, and no one should waste their time with it!"

The perspective of people with less expertise isn't "wrong". These are subjective experiences. It is valuable for the wine maker to know that their wine may not appeal to newcomers and indeed produce a strong negative reaction from them.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

An actual post on this board about a game said that the programmers shouldn't be allowed to work on games again because the poster hated the game so much. So like, yeah, you can read that and understand that it's hyperbole and not constructive.

But that's not something that's easy to forget at an emotional level. At least for me.

And a professional should be expected to filter out the chaff from the wheat. Not meditate on the most empty, worst posts as if they are the standard rather than the extreme exception.

 

[The Wart]

The post you quoted was itself a response to this:


So yes, if your criticism is not constructive, by definition the creator is not benefitting from it: why would they want it? You're entitled to hold and state it, as long as you don't delude yourself into thinking the creator should be grateful for it.

Also, criticism of the form "this sucks", with no further elaboration, is kind of antithetical to GAF. It's low signal to noise, not unlike other forms of fluff like port-begging, "first!" posts and so on. If the only functional difference is that it's not bannable, it might be time to reconsider if it's worth the keystrokes and forum space.

I'm not sure why you think making less information available to developers will benefit them more. Knowing that someone does or does not like their product is information, full stop. It's up to the developer to filter and interpret that information.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

I mean, this is a discussion forum where people are meant to share their opinions.

The same discussion forum that has rules on what's considered engaging comments vs. incendiary/troll/unengaging comments.

 

[KahooTs]

I am of the understanding that Neogaf was not created and is not kept for the purpose of being a dedicated developer feedback service. Am I wrong in this or are the preceding replies?

 

[Despera]

The same discussion forum that has rules on what's considered engaging comments vs. incendiary/troll/unengaging comments.

I expect the dev team to be able to discern actual criticism from a passerby's opinion.

But at the same time I can understand how pouring yourself into something that people anticipate, only to struggle with it, lose publisher support and watch as that idea not reach fruition, eventually leading the same people who were anticipating it to shit on it... must be overwhelming.

 

[Crayon]

And a professional should be expected to filter out the chaff from the wheat. Not meditate on the most empty, worst posts as if they are the standard rather than the extreme exception.

That's about how I feel about this. Actually with the possible difference that I would take this farther than just profession and into your whole life.

Learn when to doubt yourself and when to doubt others. It's important.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

That's about how I feel about this. Actually with the possible difference that I would take this farther than just profession and into your whole life.

Learn when to doubt yourself and when to doubt others. It's important.

*nods vigirously*

I would encourage developer guy (and every young man and woman in this thread) to read and meditate on the poem If by Rudyard Kipling.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473

Each line is truth to live by, more than worth burning into your soul. It will make you stronger.

 

[Renekton]

And a professional should be expected to filter out the chaff from the wheat. Not meditate on the most empty, worst posts as if they are the standard rather than the extreme exception.

That's about how I feel about this. Actually with the possible difference that I would take this farther than just profession and into your whole life.

Learn when to doubt yourself and when to doubt others. It's important.

Way easier said than done, the brain has a weird way of enshrining and replaying inconsequential but distressing inputs.

I doubt most of us here mastered this difficult "professionalism" skill enough in our RL to be expecting it from others.

 

[formasymphonic]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Rather than the GAF gold meme that appears every so often, this is what should load up for people to see from time to time.

 

[The3DGameArtist]

What most devs realize is that neogaf or reddit are the brutal, mean vocal minority and to keep their own sanity tends to avoid reading too much of it. Most of the time people in the dev-teams are unhappy about similar things that are mentioned but powerless to do anything about it.

 

[exmachina64]

And a professional should be expected to filter out the chaff from the wheat. Not meditate on the most empty, worst posts as if they are the standard rather than the extreme exception.

I too think humans should stop being human.

 

[KHlover]

Not trying to be condescending, just making an analogy. If you felt personally slighted, it was not intended--sorry either way.

The analogy was not about the wine maker, it was about the first timers. Regardless of how the wine maker reacts to the feedback of the first timers, it is the first timers that are not able to see past their opinion, or that their opinion might be less valid than others with more experience. As the analogy shows, their opinion IS less valid and should be ignored by the wine maker (in regards to the quality of the product); as you said, the wine is for enthusiasts. The moral of the analogy is that the first timers are unable to see their fallacy because of their inexperience. They don't know enough to know they don't know enough. It's their ignorance that allows them to fool themselves into thinking they have an opinion of value (in regards to wine).

Let me ask, if a wine maker lets a first timer know they were offended by their brash feedback, wouldn't it be right for the first timer to self reflex and tell the wine maker that they shouldn't feel bad after all, because they have realized their opinion is limited? Or should the first timer not self reflex and double-down by telling the wine maker, "Yes, you should feel bad! Your wine sucks! How dare you feel bad that I told you your wine sucks! If you feel bad, and if others feel tell you to not feel bad, then you and everyone else is wrong! You're a baby! And your wine is garbage!" -a first timer

Also, the "first timers" on the internet haven't even tasted the wine of Rime yet, they have only looked at the "label" on the bottle, yet their distaste is loud and clear. So the problem is even worse than the analogy.

If the wine maker knows (and he should, he makes the wine after all) his wine is too complex for first-timers and yet invites them to the testing he shouldn't be suprised by their feedback. If he further feels personally slighted by them not liking his wine and openly telling him that, perhaps the wine maker should take that into account and next time limit the testing to the audience he actually expects to understand his wine. The experience of the first timers isn't any less valid than the one of the experienced testers though, they've tasted it and know it's not something they'd buy.

That being said this is a vastly oversimplified analogy, to the point where it's barely applicable. It not only ignores the method of content distribution and promotion, it also doesn't take into account the state of the product.

 

[PtM]

Let's do a thought experiment.

You obviously didn't get the explain part in "explain their dislikes". Plus I've argued against shitty messaging, in this thread.

I'm not sure why you think making less information available to developers will benefit them more. Knowing that someone does or does not like their product is information, full stop. It's up to the developer to filter and interpret that information.

This is only a few steps away from apologising cyber bullying.

I am of the understanding that Neogaf was not created and is not kept for the purpose of being a dedicated developer feedback service. Am I wrong in this or are the preceding replies?

You still don't get to be a shithead.

 

[Double Donut]

Also sounds like it would be pretty cathartic in any case. Did you emerge from your cocoon of tears a brave new boy new ready to face your first actual challenges in life? I bet you did! You're quite welcome.

This is straight fucked up, what the fuck?

 

[blankslatenator]

Neogaf is a perpetual callback to a College Frat Party. If your looking for professional level constructive criticism, It might be happening in some out of the way corners, away from the dancing, bass throbbing, hype festing, beer pong, but that's about as much as I expect going into threads. Most come here for escapist level stupidity. I guess these types of cases are like party fouls?

 

[fresquito]

Well, I'm not all that surprised. This forum is full of brand loyalist, genre loyalist, and series loyalists, that know very little about how games are made and have like zero empathy towards anything they are not loyal to.

You'd think hardcore fans would know a little better about their passion crafting process, but they don't.

 

[Mutant]

There are people who can't take critism well. I don't mean those that could but won't. But those where they can't not process it in an unhealthy way. I remember on an episode of Idle Thumbs that Sean Vanama, aka the guy behind Telltale's first season of the walking dead and firewatch, has to have a someone else read the critism and deliver it second hand. I know a friend in game design who has this issue and it's something that he actively tries to fight and sometimes loses to. Some people can't process stress well, some people can't not have high anxiety in social situations, some people can't eat peanuts.

So he has my empathy. But I don't know what the solution is. Community-wide tone policing? Banning non-constructive critism? Both of those options seem not just unrealistic but anithical to game discussion (or simply just being social on a gaming forum.)

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense or just sounds dumb. It's 3 am and I'm sick as a mule, typing this on a phone. You're free to criticize it in any way you want!

As an aside, what does urks me is that when a game is bad or disappointing, there always seem to be people who will treat it as an affront to morality.

 

[KahooTs]

You still don't get to be a shithead.

What do you mean by this? Obviously the type of posts that set this dev off were allowable then and are allowable still.

 

[yume_2501]

My two cents :
Most part of neogaf users used to be Very constructive in their criticism. Now there are a lot of people that are Very overcritical or Just trolls/fanboy...sometimes is like browsing the YouTube comments section. A lot of people nowdays don t understand at all how development works and are Very vocals/offensive towards the others... In two words "IT's internet". People that bash entirely a game because in one scene the fps goes to 45 instead of 60 and is not important that for the most part the game runs fine... People need to chill out and stop pretending the absolute perfection or being a troll

 

[TeddyShardik]

This sounds too much like fishing for sympathy to me, sorry. This industry bred the cynicism and negativity surrounding it by itself in a big part.

I can understand it's hard to read negative comments about your baby but let's not pretend it all comes from nowhere.

 

[10k]

Hey all,

I just wanted to chime in and say hi!

Also, the internet can be a cruel place and someone who pours their heart and soul into a project is undoubtedly going to take to heart what people say positive or negative (though we tend to hold on to negative a little more closely).

I can tell you that, while there has been some concerned criticism over various aspects of RiME discussed here, we also appreciate all of the feedback and thoughts on various aspects of what we've shared with the community since we re-revealed in January.


That being said we are very excited for the May 26th release of the Xbox One, PC and PS4 version of RiME (we still do not have a Switch release date to announce yet (sorry)). When that day comes I will be all over GAF reading what you guys have to say about it!

Thanks again, and of course if there is ever any questions don't hesitate to reach out to me!

Also, hi

~Tim

I got my Switch preorder ready. Just give me a release date *shakes fist*

 

[The Greek Freak]

If your criticism has no real substance and nothing to offer, it's probably better off not being said. You know the old adagage.

If you're talking to the dev directly sure, be polite and not a jerk. Duh.

On a forum? Hell no, we already have enough problems where awful broken games get near universal 7-8 scores. People should be able to post and find the reality of a games quality.

OTs here are already mostly positive echo chambers even about games that are borderline broken. No need to make it worse.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I'm not sure why you think making less information available to developers will benefit them more. Knowing that someone does or does not like their product is information, full stop. It's up to the developer to filter and interpret that information.

Are you a dev? I'm making a game right now, and I can tell you with 100% certainty you telling me you "don't like my game" (hell, even telling me you like it!), without further explanation, has zero use to me. I know some people aren't going to like it (duh), a random person online not liking it is anecdotal evidence that I can't extrapolate a thing from. Hell, even something infinitely superior, say, an actual survey with a large sample pool telling me what percentage of people like my game would be of little use. "37% of people like your game". Um, OK? What the hell am I supposed to do with that information?

Once you get enough exposure, feedback (actual constructive, detailed feedback), is not that hard to come by. Fans love putting their two cents, giving ideas, criticising parts they don't like. That is Valuable, with a capital V. Likes and dislikes? Absolutely worthless in steering the wheel, but at least likes motivate you to keep working.

 

[PtM]

What do you mean by this? Obviously the type of posts that set this dev off were allowable then and are allowable still.

I wanted to say the medium is no excuse for indecent behaviour.

 

[MrHoot]

Hey all,

I just wanted to chime in and say hi!

Also, the internet can be a cruel place and someone who pours their heart and soul into a project is undoubtedly going to take to heart what people say positive or negative (though we tend to hold on to negative a little more closely).

I can tell you that, while there has been some concerned criticism over various aspects of RiME discussed here, we also appreciate all of the feedback and thoughts on various aspects of what we've shared with the community since we re-revealed in January.


That being said we are very excited for the May 26th release of the Xbox One, PC and PS4 version of RiME (we still do not have a Switch release date to announce yet (sorry)). When that day comes I will be all over GAF reading what you guys have to say about it!

Thanks again, and of course if there is ever any questions don't hesitate to reach out to me!

Also, hi

~Tim

Well, for what it's worth, played your game at GDC and really enjoyed it ! Looking forward to play it

 

[morbius83]

A spanish site talked with Herraez from Rime, here is the link, use google for english version :\

http://generacionxbox.com/rime-jose-herraez-neogaf/

 

[John Kowalski]

Would it be uncouth to disclose my strong feelings about parentheses inside of parentheses?

 

[Ran rp]

.

 

[Ban Puncher]

$80 for the Switch version makes my eyes water too, Rime Guy.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

$80 for the Switch version makes my eyes water too, Rime Guy.

lol

 

[evilromero]

I do not understand why my criticism has to be constructive. If I don't like something, then I don't like it. Whether the creator learns from it or not isn't on me.

That's your call but there's a distinct difference between not liking something and being a shithead. All that really does is demonstrates your unhappiness or bitterness for all to see. But yes, it's of course your choice. But you'd be taking the negative path and be a worse person for it.

 

[gtj1092]

Don't see what's so unreasonable about a developer having an emotional reaction to criticism of their work when this board is full of people who get emotional and defensive about products and companies they have nothing do with getting criticized.

 

[Dynomutt]

Don't see what's so unreasonable about a developer having an emotional reaction to criticism of their work when this board is full of people who get emotional and defensive about products and companies they have nothing do with getting criticized.

Why would you walk into a hornet's nest expecting anything other than stings. Let alone read 2 years worth of comments not only is that probably bad for your health it does not give a great consensus and probably can mess with self-esteem. Gaf is not the world.

 

[Zxrophantom]

The internet can be brutal and that extends to neogaf as well. The current climate in games many gamers are a lot more observant to mock demos or trailers that might not represent the final product. This often creates witch hunts when wind of these events come to light. These can come premature as some are quick to expose "conflicts in development". Jaded or burned gamers aside, game development can be messy business and it often pulls together at the last minute. On the flip side i think devs need thick skin or simply avoid mass feedback because its something that won't go away. People will be mean and a good section of gamers may not offer usable feedback simply stating this sucks.

 

[DNAbro]

$80 for the Switch version makes my eyes water too, Rime Guy.

My preorder for Switch version is 22$. I feel bad for how overpriced that is lol.

 

[jond76]

I think a large part of it is that you have a majority of people here that are strictly consumers and have never created anything to be criticized.

But once you put on your artist cap and create something from pure passion, it hurts when random people take two seconds to shit on what took you years to create.

I have a movie available to watch on Amazon Prime. Its got 2 and a half stars. I know its low budget and rough around the edges, but we made it off and on over the course of 5 years and I'm pretty proud of it (I know its not awesome). Reading the negative reviews sting a bit, but those positive reviews feel great.

I guess its nice to remember that there are real people behind these projects. No one expects for everyone to love their creations unconditionally, but there's always a hope that'll people will find something to enjoy about it after giving it a fair shake.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

I mean, this is a discussion forum where people are meant to share their opinions.

Discussions and sharing opinions are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Freshmaker]

Yes, if you had a real understanding of making movies, producing music, writing fiction, or architecture, yes you would have the underlining understand of why certain choices were made and be able to appreciate them in a meaningful way (more meaningful than "well I don't like it." or "this game looks bad.")

Heh. I've read 99 cent novels on Amazon (One from a Gaffer no less) which while they may have taken up a lot of their time to actually produce, the end effort was lacking to varying degrees.

I can easily say Lewis Aleman creates nothing but godawful trash for example. He doesn't understand show don't tell, his descriptions are frequently incoherent and overly verbose (which contributes to the incoherence) and his character motivations are completely baffling.

I can recognize this without farting out a poorly edited Amazon novel. So can everyone else who reads Lewis Aleman's work outside of his friends and paid reviewers.

Then there's this guy who released this gem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJIgzSs4PcM

With the Amazon book basically being a chapter outline with no content for $10. I can't tell that's a mess without first writing a novel and understanding the sheer lack of actual effort he put forth?