You know who has known Bernie personally for decades? Barney Frank. And he thinks Bernie's political career is one centered on ego and has been in this for Bernie and only Bernie.
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Sanders campaign touts "endorsement" from AIDS coalition, calls them corrupt same day
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Spiral Insanity
Banned
Fucking populists. Time to start calling him Bernard.
Shit, do you think someone who has a 30+ year tenure in Congress would have a pretty good idea about another Congressman with a 20+ year tenure?
Spiral Insanity
Banned
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MeisaMcCaffrey
I don't have a problem with people bashing Sanders for not suspending his campaign even though I kinda like him a lot. There's nothing wrong in not giving up, but when you have frickin' Trump on the other side, he needs to do the right thing and let Hillary focus on the GE battle. He needs to realize that she is 3 million votes ahead of him and has already beaten him fair and square. Blaming debate timing, rigging and other stuff is ridiculous. There's a lot on the line in this election (SC, Obama's climate deal etc.), so just let it go Bernie.
I'm not a US citizen and my knowledge about US election comes from comedy shows, but I find these reactions interesting.
They seem like huge, huge overreactions that take a couple of mistakes and enlarge them to the point of overshadowing everything else he has said and done.
This seems rather indicative of how hard it is to run a campaign this different and how mentalities work in groups; while other candidates have made huge mistakes, faux-pas or simply had ridiculous stances, I never saw this type of disproportional backlash that overshadows everything.
Not saying Bernie is perfect of that this doesn't deserve scrutiny, but this is what the situation seems like to me as an outsider.
They seem like huge, huge overreactions that take a couple of mistakes and enlarge them to the point of overshadowing everything else he has said and done.
This seems rather indicative of how hard it is to run a campaign this different and how mentalities work in groups; while other candidates have made huge mistakes, faux-pas or simply had ridiculous stances, I never saw this type of disproportional backlash that overshadows everything.
Not saying Bernie is perfect of that this doesn't deserve scrutiny, but this is what the situation seems like to me as an outsider.
Sorry, but I don't really see it. Look at Trump - the guy has actual riots taking place at locations he speaks. That seems like a pretty serious backlash compared to me telling Sanders to fuck off when he calls a figure like Staley a corporate shill, only because Staley and their organization called them out about lying about giving Sanders their political endorsement.
Hillary Clinton (deservedly so) got raked over the coals for her comments on AIDS and Nancy Regan.
This is not something that is just happening to Bernie.
And every bit of scorn aimed at his campaign for this is deserved. It is a vile and unsubstantiated attack on good people.
It's partly exacerbated by the frustration of Bernie still running a campaign at this point -- one that has no chance of winning but is keeping Hillary and the Democrats from focusing fully on Trump -- and partly exacerbated by a string of recent events where Bernie's campaign is attached to something outrageous, and rather than apologize or completely condemn it, it's used as further criticism of a corrupt establishment out to get him. It's childish.
There's also the whole double standard at play here. If Hillary had pretended to tout the endorsement of AIDS activists, was found lying about it, and then responded by attacking the credibility of those activists instead of apologizing for it, she would have been completely shit on for it -- and deservedly so. When Hillary makes a blunder, it's because she's untrustworthy; when Bernie makes a blunder, well it's just a simple mistake that shouldn't take away from his message.
It's not like there hasn't been backlash to dumb things that Hillary has said. The difference is when she says something outlandish, like calling Nancy Reagan a champion for AIDS advocates or her superpredator remark from the 90s, she addresses and apologizes for it. But for some reason, when Bernie criticizes anyone not on his side as corrupt and gives interviews that expose his shallow understanding of policy, the criticism is disproportionate?
Bernie has been in a downward spiral for a while now and instead of hitting the eject button (Even Cruz had the sense to do that) he is trying to take as many people down with him as he possibly can. Now he's targeting a hero for LGBT people and people are rightfully pissed at him for it.
Clinton got shit for her comments on AIDS and the Reagans so it's not like people are only mad because it's Bernie.
Ever heard of a thing called independents? They’re the biggest section of the electorate and they massively favor Bernie. Unfortunately, the two party system shuts them out with closed primaries. Now if you actually cared about politics and voted you would know that.
It really is a minor blunder because he played no personal role in this, it was a mistake on the behalf of his campaign. The real issue is that the media will cover this story and ignore the ridiculous amount of controversies dealing with HRC. I hope she wins at this point so Trump can just finish up this joke of an election.
shinra-bansho
Member
I think you overestimate the extent to which he'll actively campaign for Clinton against Trump.
But setting that aside, I also think that while a lot of the fuckery is simply that he has, like, the worst campaign staff ever aside from the tech person who does his fundraising stuff, that part of the jumping the shark comes directly from the top.
i.e. Does Bernie Sanders buy into the idea of "Bernie Sanders". And does he clearly like the the adulation of the crowd, after 30 years of anonymity in the wilderness? Is it intoxicating and head-swelling.
Probably.
Two comments:
1. Sanders' campaign has been doing stuff like this for months. Calling Planned Parenthood part of "the establishment" was the beginning, and it's only ramped up from there. People are reacting to his continued insistence to make enemies out of his allies, not just this single incident. And a lot of this (at least on GAF) is coming from people who previously supported Sanders to various degrees (like me), and who bought into his campaign's promise to keep the primary focused on the issues. Fool me once, etc.
2. This happened to another person this primary: Donald Trump. Conservatives have been bemoaning Trump's damage to the GOP for a while now (they just don't do it on NeoGAF). Trump's largely acquiesced with the party, which now means there's even more pressure from Democrats for Sanders to do the same. Wrap it up so that we can start focusing on the general election, because, if Trump were elected by some cruel miracle, I don't have words to describe what a disaster it'd be. I'd rather not take any chances to sate Bernie's ego.
So yeah, that's why people are riled up. Hopefully some dropping pole numbers put some common sense in Bernie's head.
Uh, independents went for Romney in 2012 and he lost.
Your political knowledge needs to catch up. The myth of the independent voter is no longer valid in recent years with increased polarization. Majority of self-described independents are actually conservative. The independent bloc of voters is no longer the winning bloc. Obama's coalition is the way to go for Democrats, which is shown best in the results of the current Democratic primary.
Please, tell me more about these mysterious independents and how they've been a consistent decider of who wins the general election. I know our currently serving President Romney benefited hugely from having independents break for him in 2012.
Hillary Clinton has won more open primaries than Bernie. If every primary was open, she would actually be winning more because Bernies support has almost all come from incredibly undemocratic caucus's.
Bernie is losing because he wrote off an entire segment of the population, ignored the Obama coalition, and people prefer Hillary to the tune of several million more votes.
Diprosalic
Banned
real independents don't like Bernie.
some reading for you:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/sanders-isnt-doing-well-with-true-independents/
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/
shinra-bansho
Member
I don't know why people pretend "independents" who fail to register to vote for the Democratic primary are particularly similar to "independents" in a general election scenario.
Or why the latter are going to want anything to do with a candidate after round the clock Red Scare ads about how a self-described socialist thinks "breadlines are great" and wants to increase their taxes.
Or why the latter are going to want anything to do with a candidate after round the clock Red Scare ads about how a self-described socialist thinks "breadlines are great" and wants to increase their taxes.
What happened in the past two weeks exactly. Something I'm missing here.
I'm just perplexed by the irrationality of anyone using a Barney Frank quote. There are many people who've worked with Bernie and like him, but we're not going to get their quotes in this thread. You know why Barney Frank doesn't like Sanders? He doesn't play ball in the same corrupt games Barney does.
This might be a good start for a lot of you in here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
God damn man, get out of the echo chamber.
No one really knows these people. Maybe their closest advisors, coworkers and family.
Palette Swap
Member
You don't think this is fucking hateful ?
You see this despicable attack on Peter fucking Staley and your first reaction is to tone police the thread like we're discussing some dumb console war, while covering for the character assassination of an actual activist ?
Do you have any idea how that makes you look?
I'll be generous and say you're really lacking perspective here.
Dude, I've meet Bernie, worked with him, worked with people who have known him for years, and I say the exact same thing.
Real independents? Are you seriously linking me that article? What a joke 538 has become. We can keep ignoring the polling which makes it pretty obvious where Sanders stands as opposed to Clinton. That's totally fine with me.
Edit: Wow it's amazing how anytime I enter a political thread the whole forum jumps at me. Are you people even real?
Wow, wow, wow, for real? Can you give us more?
"Real independents" meaning the minority of independent voters who don't consistently break for Democrat and Republican in every election. You would've known that if you'd read the article.
You're the one who keeps ignoring the actual polling.
RustyNails
Member
There it is.
People are frustrated that the primary is over but Bernie's campaign has devolved into paranoia, threats and constant cries of "establishment" to critics whether they have merit or not. The Democrats were the adults in the room a few months ago, but that's not the case anymore.
Meanwhile, Republicans have emerged from their clown car primary by slowly lining up behind a candidate they never expected to win, but with an understanding of the importance of unity for actually advancing a platform. The Democrats should get there eventually, but until it happens we're stuck in a not quite general election with Bernie's team displaying an ugly willingness, if not outright desire, to poison the well on his way out.
If the words and actions of his team have the effect of making President Trump closer to reality, instead of helping the candidate he agrees with on most issues, it's no surprise that the further he goes down this path the responses will get increasingly emotional.
Right, because you do unlike Barney Frank... that's not hypocritical at all!
BotoxAgent
Member
Dude has gotten way more attention than he ever deserved
I actually have had the displeasure of coming across this article. The problem is that it's speculative and the entire premise is built on the notion that current polling is wrong. You can't just dismiss a poll because "most independents are really closeted partisans". People are literally telling them how they're going to vote and they still can't get it through their thick skulls.
Dash_Riprock
Member
You need to do more research.
No snark, but I honestly would like a citation for this. Cause on another board I visit frequently, "independents" are more often than not Republicans or Libertarians that don't want to be associated with their party in name. Obviously there are liberal independents, but I never had had the impression they outnumbered conservative minded independents.
It's not that the polling is wrong, it's the fact that - as you put it yourself - people are telling us how they're going to vote. But, they're making that decision as if the election was today because they aren't soothsayers. They don't know the future.
We're still 6 months away from the election day. There's a ton of things that could happen (and arguably will happen) between now and then that will have a massive impact on voter preference. When looking at past elections, polling at this point in time simply isn't corresponding very well at all with the actual outcome because of this.
Expert predictions try to account for these externalities based on known trends, like how Trump has massive demographic challenges to overcome or how Sanders has not actually been properly tried by fire, and has higher favorability ratings than Hillary who has been tried. But polls can't do that. That's why polls are useful to track how the electorate is swinging right now and how they're responding to certain events - information that is useful when trying to predict how the above mentioned externalities might play out - but they aren't useful as raw numbers when trying to make any prediction of the outcome in November, or which candidate is even stronger. We need to get closer to election day, when those externalities start to get absorbed and accounted for, to be able to do that.
Whatever you can tell yourself to justify voting for HRC. It's really not my problem, and I'm not here to judge, but these threads are just insane to me.
Gaf is a breeding ground for people who care about real shit. Sanders attacks everyone who isn't willing to swear fealty, gives never ending cover for supporters of his who want to corrupt a democratic process, and preaches a gospel of belief over fact.
He is unfit for the office he has now and would be as big a disaster as Donald Trump as POTUS. Hillary has issues with being open and honest, but her agenda is good, her methods are democratic, and her views are able to change when presented with new evidence. She is also incredibly experienced and a far more intelligent person than Sanders.
This is not even a real choice. You can either side with the best potential President or with someone who lets you feel good in your echo chamber. Anyone with a working moral compass is starting to wake up to that fact.
You should have seen the Hillary abuela thread. That slight was much, much smaller than this one too.Fair enough, thanks for the replies (can't quote them all). Not saying Bernie is the only one who feels backlash, just that this seems like a disproportionate reaction.
I didn't think that Bernie and his campaign would get to the point of saying/doing shit that actually makes me laugh out loud, but here we are.
I feel like Gilead does really good work around infectious diseases and virology. Why do they get picked on?
What is a fair price for a drug that, after billions of dollars of R&D and M&A and years of testing, cures Hepatitis C? People are out of control with this stuff.
What is a fair price for a drug that, after billions of dollars of R&D and M&A and years of testing, cures Hepatitis C? People are out of control with this stuff.
The premise is built on historical trends of how independents are increasingly reliable Democratic or Republican leaning voters in the general, with the share of independents who are actually independent of partisan interests/labels being on the decline. You only have to go four years ago to see that the role of independents in deciding presidential elections is not all it's cracked up to be. Again, ask President Romney how much of a help winning the independent vote was.
Sinoox, stop being so condescending. So far in this thread you have suggested you know Bernie better then people who, well, have actually met the man, and that you have some insight into polling that people who actually study the field lack.
It's not a good look.
Palette Swap
Member
The fuck are you on about, this is exactly what you just did :
The thing you're really missing is that the outcry isn't about supporting Hillary, really. It's about calling out a campaign that's been going off the rails, developing a stronger and stronger "with us or against us" (as your Hillary fixation illustrates). It's reaching a point where liberals are eating themselves while the GOP is making trailers of what a Trump presidency would look like.
They might care about "real shit", but they're incredibly biased when anything political comes up. My guess is too much MSM considering the age demographics on Gaf. You guys wanna talk about an echo chamber this thread is exactly that. If you say one truthful thing about HRC the whole forum feels compelled to write me a reply.
We've already derailed this thread enough. Go vote for Hillary, I seriously don't have a problem with it. It's about time we get somebody in office who isn't owned by special interests. Electing Hillary would do exactly that because she doesn't stand a chance in the general with Trump.
Missed this. Sorry, can't talk about specifics. Just that nothing Bernie's campaign has done has been at all surprising to those that have experience with him. Everything is coming from the top.
metalslimer
Member
Another Bernie-Trump supporter here or just a troll
Lord Fagan
Junior Member
If you're noticing the pattern, there could indeed be something going on.
It's not just GAF. There has been a real shift away from Bernie in a lot of places over the last few weeks including progressive sites. I've been keeping an eye on DailyKos for the last few weeks and it definitely is turning anti-sanders more so every day.
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