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[Koomaster]

Fair enough. My apologies.

Same, apologies. I was actually laughing for quite a while trying to compose my post. Didn't see a mod post to move on till after I submitted. My bad.

 

[ShironRedshift]

You don't really think that, do you? I know people get into a fervor in a time like this, but you don't think Bernie is a decent person- at all? I have heard him compared To Cruz and Trump on this board, I think its getting a little ridiculous.

If the shoe fits... I mean, as easy as it would be to blame Devine or Weaver, this really does seem to come from the top and be who Sanders is at his core. From 1991:
http://articles.latimes.com/1991-09-08/news/mn-2854_1_major-party

"Bernie alienates his natural allies," said Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.). "His holier-than-thou attitude--saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else --really undercuts his effectiveness."

 

[VendettaRed07]

You don't really think that, do you? I know people get into a fervor in a time like this, but you don't think Bernie is a decent person- at all? I have heard him compared To Cruz and Trump on this board, I think its getting a little ridiculous.

I think he's still a good guy. But I think he has riled up his supporters and constituents to where they are pushing him beyond probably what he ever intended/was comfortable with.

I don't believe he ever started this campaign thinking he could win. But when he performed above expectations, got a lot of money flowing in, hired a lot of people.. they started to push and push and push him.

I don't think this campaign has gone in a way he ever envisioned or wanted it to. All of this to me just feels like he's a guy who was not ready to control this kind of attention or pressure and got taken over by the people he thought were there to help him

 

[excelsiorlef]

I feel like Bernie has surrounded himself with poisonous people who are constantly in his ear pushing and pushing him to say and do the wrong thing. He doesn't control his campaign anymore. His campaign and the people around him control him

I think he's still a good guy. But I think he has riled up his supporters and constituents to where they are pushing him beyond probably what he ever intended/was comfortable with.

I don't believe he ever started this campaign thinking he could win. But when he performed above expectations, got a lot of money flowing in, hired a lot of people.. they started to push and push and push him.

I don't think this campaign has gone in a way he ever envisioned or wanted it to. All of this to me just feels like he's a guy who was not ready to control this kind of attention or pressure and got taken over by the people he thought were there to help him

Probably not.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/it-comes-from-the-very-top

For months I'd thought and written that Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver was the key driver of toxicity in the the Democratic primary race. Weaver has been highly visible on television, far more than campaign managers tend to be. He's also been the one constantly upping the tension, pressing the acrimony and unrealism of the campaign as Sanders actual chances of winning dwindled.

But now I realize I had that wrong.

Actually, I didn't realize it. People who know told me.

Over the last several weeks I've had a series of conversations with multiple highly knowledgable, highly placed people. Perhaps it's coming from Weaver too. The two guys have been together for decades. But the 'burn it down' attitude, the upping the ante, everything we saw in that statement released today by the campaign seems to be coming from Sanders himself. Right from the top.

This should have been obvious to me. The tone and tenor of a campaign always come from the top. It wasn't obvious to me until now.

This might be because he's temperamentally like that. There's some evidence for that. It may also be that, like many other presidential contenders, once you get close it is simply impossible to let go. I don't know which it is. That would only be my speculation. But this is coming from Bernie Sanders. It's not Weaver. It's not driven by people around him. It's right from him. And what I understand from knowledgable sources is that in the last few weeks anyone who was trying to rein it in has basically stopped trying and just decided to let Bernie be Bernie.

Sanders speech tonight was right in line with his statement out this afternoon. He identified the Democratic party as an essentially corrupt, moribund institution which is now on notice that it must let 'the people' in. What about the coalitions Barack Obama built in 2008 and 2012, the biggest and most diverse presidential coalitions ever constructed?

...

He's suggesting that the win is being stolen by a corrupt establishment, an impression which will be validated when his phony prediction turns out not to be true. Lying like this sets you up for stuff like happened over the weekend in Nevada.

As I said, it all comes from the very top.

 

[DietRob]

I feel like Bernie has surrounded himself with poisonous people who are constantly in his ear pushing and pushing him to say and do the wrong thing. He doesn't control his campaign anymore. His campaign and the people around him control him

I don't think this is the case. He's known to be very involved with even minute details of his campaign. However, let's just say you're right. What does that say about his judgment and leadership abilities? What would it imply about his potential presidency ?

It's not a good look.

 

[Mael]

I think he's still a good guy. But I think he has riled up his supporters and constituents to where they are pushing him beyond probably what he ever intended/was comfortable with.

I don't believe he ever started this campaign thinking he could win. But when he performed above expectations, got a lot of money flowing in, hired a lot of people.. they started to push and push and push him.

I don't think this campaign has gone in a way he ever envisioned or wanted it to. All of this to me just feels like he's a guy who was not ready to control this kind of attention or pressure and got taken over by the people he thought were there to help him

nah,
If he was like that he wouldn't have thrown anyone who didn't support him under the Establishment bus (coincidentally the only bus with a stop the white house).
This behavior is inline with everything he did and how he ran his campaign even to the point of hiring the stalwart duo of incompetence at the head of this shitshow.

 

[my6765490]

Thanks a lot for representing our Uni like this on the national stage, Bernie....

 

[excelsiorlef]

nah,
If he was like that he wouldn't have thrown anyone who didn't support him under the Establishment bus (coincidentally the only bus with a stop the white house).
This behavior is inline with everything he did and how he ran his campaign even to the point of hiring the stalwart duo of incompetence at the head of this shitshow.

Exactly this is the guy who directly called PP the establishment, then went challenged on it and given a chance to you know back off an insane claim like that said nope they are, then sent Weaver out to triple down and say yes they are the establishment, and then when coverage wasn't positive finally went on TV and said sorry what I meant is everyone that runs Planned Parenthood is the establishment not the organization itself, which is an impressive backtrack and a quadruple down at the same fucking time.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Man, Bernie veered into ideological purity accusations over everything. Whether on the left or the right, that's never a good thing.

Very disappointed in the man.

 

[Amir0x]

Bernie Sanders is such a loser.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Oh and the same guy who said "I'd never ask you to vote for me because i'm a man" to defend his idiot surrogate's bullshit about voting for Clinton just because she has a uterus.

 

[Azzanadra]

Exactly this is the guy who directly called PP the establishment, then went challenged on it and given a chance to you know back off an insane claim like that said nope they are, then sent Weaver out to triple down and say yes they are the establishment, and then when coverage wasn't positive finally went on TV and said sorry what I meant is everyone that runs Planned Parenthood is the establishment not the organization itself, which is an impressive backtrack and a quadruple down at the same fucking time.

That`s just one issue in a specific instance though. I mean if you want a tribunal over every single issue, both candidates would look like monsters. Hillary`s one millionth down of her support for Israel, for example, would literally be a support for apartheid.

 

[lightskintwin]

Bernie was interviewed tonight on Bill Maher still fighting the good fight. LOL

Real Time with Bill Maher: Bernie Sanders Interview – May 27, 2016 (HBO)

 

[blackw0lf]

These were the people at the meeting that Sanders policy director is saying is bought off by big pharma.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...91034335491.2028973.1217362611&type=3&theater

These are the "pharma shills" (AHF's words) that the Sanders campaign just insulted by saying our views were paid off by big pharma:

]Tranisha Arzah, Peer Advocate, BABES-NETWORK YWCA
Jaron Benjamin, Vice President for Community Mobilization, Housing Works
Marco Alonso Castro-Bojorquez, Activist & Filmmaker
Guillermo Chacón, President, Latino Commission on AIDS; Founder, Hispanic Health Network
Thomas Davis, Health Education Specialist, Los Angeles LGBT Center
Kenyon Farrow, U.S. & Global Health Policy Director, Treatment Action Group (TAG)
Donnie Hue Frazier III, Prevention Training Specialist, APLA Health & Wellness
Ramon Gardenhire, Vice President of Policy & Advocacy, AIDS Foundation of Chicago (AFC)
Naina Khanna, Executive Director, Positive Women’s Network – USA
Kelsey Louie, MSW, MBA, CEO, Gay Men’s Health Crisis (GMHC)
Hilary McQuie, Director of U.S. Policy & Grassroots Mobilization, Health GAP
Nadia Rafif, Director of Policy, Global Forum on MSM and HIV
Michael Emanuel Rajner, BSW, HIV/AIDS Activist and Social Worker
Venita Ray, Public Affairs Field Specialist, Legacy Community Health
Bamby Salcedo, President and CEO, The TransLatin@ Coalition
Andrew Spieldenner, Ph.D., United States People Living with HIV Caucus
Peter Staley, AIDS Activist
DaShawn Usher, Community Education and Recruitment Manager, New York Blood Center’s Project ACHIEVE; Chair, Young Black Gay Men’s Leadership Initiative (YBGLI) Vice-President, Impulse Group NYC
Phill Wilson, President and CEO, Black AIDS Institute

 

[Heshinsi]

like jesus fucking christ, the Sanders campaign has just been the Steph Curry of messes this week

Hey Steph Curry at least pulled off a win this week. Bernie on the other hand is sinking faster than the Lusitania.

 

[blackw0lf]

I have connections in the Sanders campaign. I'm going to see if I can get Warren Gunnels fired.

He just grossly offended 18 important people in the activist community. I'm a local LA activist so I know some of these groups. There is no way that such an act should be tolerated by the Sanders campaign.

 

[Suikoguy]

I have connections in the Sanders campaign. I'm going to see if I can get Warren Gunnels fired.

He just grossly offended 18 important people in the activist community. I'm a local LA activist so I know some of these groups. There is no way that such an act should be tolerated by the Sanders campaign.

By all means check into it. But based on the rest of his campaign, this probably came from the top.

 

[Toxi]

I have connections in the Sanders campaign. I'm going to see if I can get Warren Gunnels fired.

He just grossly offended 18 important people in the activist community. I'm a local LA activist so I know some of these groups. There is no way that such an act should be tolerated by the Sanders campaign.

It's great that you're trying to improve this fucked-up situation. Best of luck.

 

[User1608]

I have connections in the Sanders campaign. I'm going to see if I can get Warren Gunnels fired.

He just grossly offended 18 important people in the activist community. I'm a local LA activist so I know some of these groups. There is no way that such an act should be tolerated by the Sanders campaign.

Take care and stay... vigilant/safe in this mess.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That`s just one issue in a specific instance though. I mean if you want a tribunal over every single issue, both candidates would look like monsters. Hillary`s one millionth down of her support for Israel, for example, would literally be a support for apartheid.

There's political expediency in trotting carefully around Israel. And by that I mean to use the term as political practicality.


Everything about PP was Sanders going off for no reason and repeating it several times.

Clinton slipped up for a second with the whole Reagan AIDS thing and immediately apologized the next day

It took a week for Sanders to not apologize lol.

 

[Damaniel]

These are the "pharma shills" (AHF's words) that the Sanders campaign just insulted by saying our views were paid off by big pharma:

]Tranisha Arzah, Peer Advocate, BABES-NETWORK YWCA
Jaron Benjamin, Vice President for Community Mobilization, Housing Works
Marco Alonso Castro-Bojorquez, Activist & Filmmaker
Guillermo Chacón, President, Latino Commission on AIDS; Founder, Hispanic Health Network
Thomas Davis, Health Education Specialist, Los Angeles LGBT Center
Kenyon Farrow, U.S. & Global Health Policy Director, Treatment Action Group (TAG)
Donnie Hue Frazier III, Prevention Training Specialist, APLA Health & Wellness
Ramon Gardenhire, Vice President of Policy & Advocacy, AIDS Foundation of Chicago (AFC)
Naina Khanna, Executive Director, Positive Women’s Network – USA
Kelsey Louie, MSW, MBA, CEO, Gay Men’s Health Crisis (GMHC)
Hilary McQuie, Director of U.S. Policy & Grassroots Mobilization, Health GAP
Nadia Rafif, Director of Policy, Global Forum on MSM and HIV
Michael Emanuel Rajner, BSW, HIV/AIDS Activist and Social Worker
Venita Ray, Public Affairs Field Specialist, Legacy Community Health
Bamby Salcedo, President and CEO, The TransLatin@ Coalition
Andrew Spieldenner, Ph.D., United States People Living with HIV Caucus
Peter Staley, AIDS Activist
DaShawn Usher, Community Education and Recruitment Manager, New York Blood Center’s Project ACHIEVE; Chair, Young Black Gay Men’s Leadership Initiative (YBGLI) Vice-President, Impulse Group NYC
Phill Wilson, President and CEO, Black AIDS Institute

Disgusting corporate shills, all of them. I mean, what do *these* people know about AIDS anyway? For all we know, they could be actively trying to infect people to give their pharmaceutical industry masters a huge payday... /s

 

[Mgoblue201]

I don't wanna dogpile on the dude, but what is going on with him? He's devolved into nothing but "anyone who criticizes me is paid off by the establishment!" It's just sad.

I think it was pretty evident from the start that what he meant by "establishment" and "corruption" wasn't just lobbyists, or politicians who accept large donations, or an entrepreneurial class that enriches itself at the expense of everyone else, but almost anybody who disagrees with his views. That's why I've always questioned his methods, while being sympathetic, at least in principle, to some of his goals. Money in politics is sometimes a problem, and I think there's a nuanced discussion to have about that, but Sanders has such a narrow view about what constitutes corruption, and seems to have no ideas or explanations outside of it, that I don't really trust him to address the problem.

 

[Koodo]

Will never stop being ironic to hear a white cis straight male decry the "establishment" when every achievement to his name was aided by an obscene amount of privilege granted by that same establishment – including making it this far despite the sheer incompetence.

 

[kirblar]

I don't wanna dogpile on the dude, but what is going on with him? He's devolved into nothing but "anyone who criticizes me is paid off by the establishment!" It's just sad.

This has apparently been his M.O. his entire political career.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Fuck Bernie Sanders, actually. When someone shows you who they really are, believe them.

 

[Frozenprince]

As a gay man with friends who survived the 80's.

I say this, with every bit of my being.

Fuck you, Bernie. You're a bad person. Thank you for finally showing everybody who you really are.

A petty, vindictive old man who can't handle losing with grace and dignity.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Wow Sanders campaign is going hard at Peter Staley.

Fuck this shit wow.

 

[MrDenny]

I wonder how TYT will spin this story around this time.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I wonder how TYT will spin this story around this time.

Big pharma

 

[User 463088]

As a gay man with friends who survived the 80's.

I say this, with every bit of my being.

Fuck you, Bernie. You're a bad person. Thank you for finally showing everybody who you really are.

A petty, vindictive old man who can't handle losing with grace and dignity.

Amen.

 

[blackw0lf]

Warren Gunnels is a trusted Sanders loyalist who he's worked with for many years, and will have a huge hand in trying to influence the democratic party platform

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...blishment-takes-new-steps-to-soothe-the-bern/

I can add more: Sanders’s policy director, Warren Gunnels, will have a major hand in trying to influence the outcome of the platform, a source familiar with ongoing talks tells me. Gunnels may not end up being a voting member of the platform drafting committee, but he will play a staff role at a minimum.

Gunnels and the Sanders campaign are already at work producing a draft of the bullet points it hopes to get into the party platform, the source continues. Some things the Sanders camp will push for include firm opposition to a vote on the Trans-Pacific Partnership in this Congress; requirements to break up too-big-to-fail financial institutions; more in infrastructure spending; a $15-per-hour minimum wage; tuition-free public college, and, possibly, a carbon tax, in keeping with the ambitious agenda Sanders has campaigned on.

Having a trusted loyalist who has worked with Sanders for many years and is intimately familiar with his agenda and aspirations — such as Gunnels — could be a real plus for the Sanders team’s efforts to shape the party’s agenda heading into the elections.

 

[Frozenprince]

Wow Sanders campaign is going hard at Peter Staley.

Fuck this shit wow.

"He advocated for Big Pharma to ignore the FDA!"

Yeah so he and hundreds of thousands of others wouldn't DIE PAINFUL DEATHS.

My god. Like... what the ever loving fuck man. Of all the people you shit on a guy because he stood by the pharmaceutical companies because if he didn't the FDA wouldn't approve the drugs fast enough and people would die.

 

[Meowster]

As a gay man with friends who survived the 80's.

I say this, with every bit of my being.

Fuck you, Bernie. You're a bad person. Thank you for finally showing everybody who you really are.

A petty, vindictive old man who can't handle losing with grace and dignity.

I'm with you and could really be hateful right now. This is something worth hating and I can only hope he, himself, personally, without any shenanigans or excuses in his statement, will apologize.

 

[chaobreaker]

Take care and stay... vigilant/safe in this mess.

God help blackw0lf if Sanders finds out and accuses him/her of shilling for... big GAF?

 

[User 463088]

I'm with you and could really be hateful right now. This is something worth hating and I can only hope he, himself, personally, without any shenanigans or excuses in his statement, will apologize.

I'm honestly not being shady by saying this, but I feel that if you're waiting on an apology from Bernie Sanders you'll be waiting for a long, long, long time. He's yet to take responsibility for any of the crap his campaign has pulled this year. I see no reason why he would start doing it now.

 

[Frozenprince]

I'm honestly not being shady by saying this, but I feel that if you're waiting on an apology from Bernie Sanders you'll be waiting for a long, long, long time. He's yet to take responsibility for any of the crap his campaign has pulled this year. I see no reason why he would start doing it now.

I honestly at this point think he views himself as some sort of pariah.

 

[dimb]

Somehow, this is the most offensive thing I have read from any political campaign this election cycle. I hope there is appropriate media coverage on this.

 

[Meowster]

I'm honestly not being shady by saying this, but I feel that if you're waiting on an apology from Bernie Sanders you'll be waiting for a long, long, long time. He's yet to take responsibility for any of the crap his campaign has pulled this year. I see no reason why he would start doing it now.

Oh I know. He doesn't apologize. We saw this with the Planned Parenthood shit, we saw it when he stole data and even had the audacity to turn it around on himself, we saw it with recent election fraud in other states. I don't expect it. The naive part of me still wants him too though.

 

[Frozenprince]

Somehow, this is the most offensive thing I have read from any political campaign this election cycle. I hope there is appropriate media coverage on this.

Just like with everything AIDS related.

There won't be.

 

[User 463088]

I honestly at this point think he views himself as some sort of pariah.

It goes back to what Barney Frank said about him. Bernie is so sure he's right on everything and that everyone agrees with him..unless you don't, and then you're corrupted somehow. It seems that it never, ever occurs to him that, you know, it's possible to be wrong on an issue.

 

[blackw0lf]

Somehow, this is the most offensive thing I have read from any political campaign this election cycle. I hope there is appropriate media coverage on this.

This is the first thing I've seen from the Sanders campaign that made me absolutely livid.

 

[Frozenprince]

It goes back to what Barney Frank said about him. Bernie is so sure he's right on everything and that everyone agrees with him..unless you don't, and then you're corrupted somehow. It seems that it never, ever occurs to him that, you know, it's possible to be wrong on an issue.

I mean the guy has lived his adult life in Upstate Vermont.

I honestly can't think of a more tonally dissonant and disconnected place for a guy like this to emerge from other than maybe Montana. Maybe.

He's 74 and people were listening to his message for the first time. But a lot of people began to realize his message is hollow, just like Ron Paul's, so he's doing ANYTHING he can think to do to stay relevant. To stay on that back page for one more day. One more hour. Because his message is important, he is important.

And, I'm sorry Bernie, but your personal ego trip is not worth sinking the FUCKING COUNTRY over.

He pisses me off so bad because he has legitimately ruined any chance the country has at significant reform in all the areas he bitches about because his policies are so flawed.

 

[User 463088]

I mean the guy has lived his adult life in Upstate Vermont.

I honestly can't think of a more tonally dissonant and disconnected place for a guy like this to emerge from other than maybe Montana. Maybe.

He's 74 and people were listening to his message for the first time. But a lot of people began to realize his message is hollow, just like Ron Paul's, so he's doing ANYTHING he can think to do to stay relevant. To stay on that back page for one more day. One more hour. Because his message is important, he is important.

And, I'm sorry Bernie, but your personal ego trip is not worth sinking the FUCKING COUNTRY over.

He pisses me off so bad because he has legitimately ruined any chance the country has at significant reform in all the areas he bitches about because his policies are so flawed.

I've posted this in PoliGaf a few times, but it's something my mom brings up about Bernie constantly. (She almost literally foams at the mouth when she sees him on teevee anymore...)

Bernie seems to lack intellectual curiosity on pretty much most issues. He goes for the simple, obvious solution. Nuance becomes code in his lexicon for corruption. We've seen this throughout the primary season. Every time he loses, there's always an explanation that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with him possibly being out of touch or wrong on an issue. He lost the south? They're conservative. (even though he won some of the most conservative states because caucuses). He didn't win Arizona? Fraud. He didn't win Mass? Bill body checked 20,000 people. He didn't win Super Tuesday states? Then it's the DNC! DWS! Fraud!

I'm playing armchair psychologist here, but he never, ever takes ownership of a problem or engages in any type of self-reflection. Bernie cannot fail, he can only be failed by the rest of us.

 

[Frozenprince]

I'm too lazy to dig up my post on why I think Bernie entire platform is full of shit, I can't even remember the thread it was in there have been so damn many.

But it's just... like you said he seems entirely out of touch with reality. There's always "the establishment" right there to piss on his cheerio's when really, Bernie, the milk just turned sour because you weren't paying attention.

 

[TheSaddestSort]

Bernie seems to lack intellectual curiosity on pretty much most issues. He goes for the simple, obvious solution. Nuance becomes code in his lexicon for corruption.

I'm playing armchair psychologist here, but he never, ever takes ownership of a problem or engages in any type of self-reflection. Bernie cannot fail, he can only be failed by the rest of us.

As time goes on this in definitely one of the things I find most concerning about him. Politics is not an arena in which I want a person who can only perceive things in absolutes, because at its foundation politics is supposed to be about compromise. Bernie's black and white, me versus them mentality has become more and more apparent the longer he has drawn this primary season out.

 

[Comfort Jones]

I honestly liked Bernie at the start of his rise. Wasn't a fan of all of his policies but he seemed fairly real.

At this point I've lost a fair amount of respect for him and I'm just kinda worried how much this ego trip is gonna help Trump in the long run.

 

[Palette Swap]

Revolutionaries usually start their witch hunts and purity trials after the revolution.

That guy has become a huge embarrassment. If anything, people who care about having a leftward shift in the issues should worry that a sore loser politician and a handful of crazies are poisoning that well right now.

 

[Vagabundo]

He's starting to sound like a paranoid anarchist at this point. It almost sounds unhinged.

 

[Holmes]

If anything, people who care about having a leftward shift in the issues should worry that a sore loser politician and a handful of crazies are poisoning that well right now.

This is what I told my husband tonight and one reason why I support Clinton, but he wasn't having any of it. I'm starting to feel nervous about the convention when just earlier I was beginning to think it would all work out, especially with Sanders getting to appoint 5 people to the committee.

 

[davepoobond]

Fuckin hell man. Future of the party?

I sure the fuck hope not. We don't need two insane parties