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[ViewtifulJC]

So if I'm understanding correctly the moral of the story is:

You can't go around killing and scalping native americans and then try to repent else paradoxal events occur.

If you thinking of baptizing yourself and starting your life over, DON'T! You'll probably end up a religious zealot with abe lincoln robots and plan to take over the world.

Also, those upset labor unions are probably just as bad(if not worse) then the current regime. Fuck all politics and shoot both sides, equally

 

[_dd_]

I don't subscribe to the above; it introduces far too many questions just to solve the bathysphere one. The years, character history, etc. don't line up at all. There is some overlap that the thread covers and archetypes in relation to the series, but a literal 1:1 is too much (and devalues the themes, in my opinion.)

... constants and variables ...

 

[toastyToast]

If you thinking of baptizing yourself and starting your life over, DON'T! You'll probably end up a religious zealot with abe lincoln robots and plan to take over the world.

Baptism is starting to sound really appealing right now

 

[FlutterPuffs]

So if I'm understanding correctly the moral of the story is:

You can't go around killing and scalping native americans and then try to repent else paradoxal events occur.

Or: If you want to look at yourself, try a mirror than ripping a tear into an alternate dimension.

I don't subscribe to the above; it introduces far too many questions just to solve the bathysphere one. The years, character history, etc. don't line up at all. There is some overlap and archetypes central to the series that this thread covers, but a literal 1:1 is too much (and devalues the themes, in my opinion.)

I don't think it devalues the themes, how does it you reckon?

For me as _dd_ said there are constant and variables which includes time and space.

 

[Con_Smith]

Quick question; does anyone else besides Booker and the two demo guys at the fair have shielding?

 

[megalowho]

... constants and variables ...

But that does not mean Booker=Ryan, or anything like that. A man, a city, a lighthouse. Those are the constants

It would be devaluing because of all the forcing it takes to work (Elizabeth= little sisters? Daughters of Rapture taken and implanted with ADAM sea slugs = Booker/Comstock/Ryan's daughter in the Columbia timeline?) when so much else fits together nicely after combing it through. It's another outcome for sure, but genetic bloodline theories just don't work in my head.

 

[SolsticeZero]

Quick question; does anyone else besides Booker and the two demo guys at the fair have shielding?

Two demo guys? Wasn't it the Letuce's that gave you the shield?

 

[teh_pwn]

Oh my god this was the dumbest, most ponderous and most insulting game ending I've seen in a long time. It's almost like they took a random 13 year old's fan faction and put it into action. I enjoyed this game for the combat and the world (and tolerated the story and Elizabeth up until this point) but the ending put such a bad taste in my mouth I'm not sure I ever even want to play it again. Bleaugh.

Another thing the ending did was put in sharp relief how much more I enjoyed Bioshock 1.

Actually I found it to hold up the more I think about it. It's like the reverse of Mass Effect 3, which makes less sense with more analysis.

People in this thread add more details that link to things I remember seeing in the game, painting a complete coherent (but multi-instance) portrait.

The only thing I'm unsure about is Rapture, but it appears to be similar maybe even Dewitt again.

 

[endresults]

Quick question; does anyone else besides Booker and the two demo guys at the fair have shielding?

Nope. All enemies just have a health bar. No shield bars.


EDIT: It seems like the Luteces could have helped Booker out a lot more than they did, with their ability to blink in and out of existence and whatnot. Was there anything story related that prevented the Luteces from blinking into existence behind every Vox and Founder and slitting their throats, or was it all for the benefit of the story?

 

[Alienous]

Wait so was the first baptism you go through right after you arrive in Columbia the Baptism that transforms you into Comstock?

And then when you wake up you're an alternate Booker?

my brain hurts

No, it was a baptism more than 20 years earlier, after Booker took part in Wounded Knee.

 

[SpeedySwaf]

Just finished the game today, and I have mixed feelings about it overall.

Presentation is top notch, of course. They put a lot of effort into the city and its people, and I came to like most of the characters, though Fink felt pretty "mustache twirling" in the way he said things. I played on hard, and the game was definitely that... I ended up wasting hundreds, maybe over a thousand in resurrections.

I kinda feel there could have been more to the gameplay, especially in comparison to the previous Bioshock titles. I miss having the upgrade tonics, and while I recognize the "gear" can stand in for them, they just don't feel as neat. It doesn't help that a significant number of them dealt with skyline combat--which doesn't always happen, and even when it does, it's not always practical. I also really missed the stealth kills, since you do occasionally get an opportunity to sneak up on someone.

I'm also not sure if it was really necessary to have so many types of guns: I kinda feel they should have split it down the middle, and give some types to the founders, and others to the Vox. I ended up missing the weapon wheel as a result... with so many weapons, it hurts not being able to have them all the time. It also lead to some frustrating situations where I would run out of ammo, and have to dodge bullets to find another gun to swap with, and typically a gun I've invested zero upgrades into.

It would've been neat if they had Elizabeth serve as your "weapon wheel," in the sense that you could have two weapons equipped at once, but when you go to change that, she pulls some of your weapons out of a tear and swaps with you.

I still enjoyed the game, and had a lot of fun with it, but I can't help but feel that even more could have been done.

 

[Alienous]

Thanks to this game I think I now retroactively like Bioshock 1 less. What an awful retcon.

Now I just think you're being OTT.

It isn't so much that you don't like the ending. It seems like you didn't want to like it. You haven't really hit on any reason why you dislike it, and you don't have to, but sticking around to ridicule the ending for no specific reason, rather than discuss it, isn't constructive.

 

[Sheap]

It would've been neat if they had Elizabeth serve as your "weapon wheel,"

I agree with everything you said.

Also that would of been a great! She's already a walking vending machine.

 

[Con_Smith]

Two demo guys? Wasn't it the Letuce's that gave you the shield?

At the fair there are the two guys demonstrating vigors to the crowd, and when one gets hit he gets all yellow like Booker when his shield is hurt. Maybe Fink was stealing more from the Luteces than we thought but I thought the shield was something they had just created.

 

[luxarific]

So do we know when the three DLCs will be out? I'm going to wait to play 1999 mode until I play all pieces of the game.

Also, where was the cipher book for the first coded message you find in the restaurant off Patriot Plaza? That was the only one I didn't find, I think.

 

[border]

I am rather confused about the ending.

Why does Booker getting drowned at the baptism prevent alternate versions of him from becoming Comstock? Just because the game says so? Wouldn't there be alternate universes where he did not get drowned and still went on to start Columbia?

And why does the game hint that there is some alternate universe where he and Anna live happily ever after? If the drowning effectively ended his timeline across all universes, wouldn't that be impossible?

 

[SmithnCo]

So do we know when the three DLCs will be out? I'm going to wait to play 1999 mode until I play all pieces of the game.

Also, where was the cipher book for the first coded message you find in the restaurant off Patriot Plaza? That was the only one I didn't find, I think.

If I remember right, it was in the cannon in the ticket center across the way.

 

[Hylian7]

I'm looking through the art book right now, and there's some interesting scrapped things that show that this ending was definitely planned pretty early.

There was a picture of a "mechanical watchman" who was guarding a little girl with purple skin.

 

[luxarific]

If I remember right, it was in the cannon in the ticket center across the way.

gargh, thought I checked everywhere, thanks. Will need to get that one on my next run through.

 

[Trin]

Nope. All enemies just have a health bar. No shield bars.


EDIT: It seems like the Luteces could have helped Booker out a lot more than they did, with their ability to blink in and out of existence and whatnot. Was there anything story related that prevented the Luteces from blinking into existence behind every Vox and Founder and slitting their throats, or was it all for the benefit of the story?

You could circumvent a lot of unnecessary bloodshed by just eliminating the right person, rather than murdering everyone involved. And killing them wouldn't technically be enough, right? You'd have to prevent their existence.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Why does Booker getting drowned at the baptism prevent alternate versions of him from becoming Comstock? Just because the game says so? Wouldn't there be alternate universes where he did not get drowned and still went on to start Columbia?

Maybe it was to follow with his wishes, to stop it from ever happening and so the Anna and the Booker DeWitt we know cease to exist.

And yep, there's still an alternate universe where he did not get drowned, but that dimension of deWitt is not part of this story.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Beat the game, reading through this thread now. Wow what a feat of storytelling. I love you Bioschock....I think I may need to play through the first one again now.

 

[ruxtpin]

Asked about it before but still trying to wrap my head around it... But what's theory on the baptism you receive upon arriving in Columbia, and being drowned by the Songbird? After those events you're back in Bookers office/house. Does that mean another "copy" of Booker died and you're continuing in an alternate universe where Booker survived the Baptism and wasn't drowned by the Songbird?

 

[Keyser Soze]

I am rather confused about the ending.

Why does Booker getting drowned at the baptism prevent alternate versions of him from becoming Comstock? Just because the game says so? Wouldn't there be alternate universes where he did not get drowned and still went on to start Columbia?

And why does the game hint that there is some alternate universe where he and Anna live happily ever after? If the drowning effectively ended his timeline across all universes, wouldn't that be impossible?

Bioshock Infinte adopts a story which poses that a the multiverse theory plausible. It poses that there is an infinite amount of parallel universe out there, each branching off at every decision we make, and themselves branching off at every decision they make thereafter.

The baptism is the most important branch for the game, which causes Booker to advance in two vastly different ways based on its end result. To stop a branch forming in either direction, Booker's life at to end at that point.

However, other universes, based on other people lives, will still exist, branch off, and be created depending on what other people in he world do.

 

[Jackson]

I am rather confused about the ending.

Why does Booker getting drowned at the baptism prevent alternate versions of him from becoming Comstock? Just because the game says so? Wouldn't there be alternate universes where he did not get drowned and still went on to start Columbia?

And why does the game hint that there is some alternate universe where he and Anna live happily ever after? If the drowning effectively ended his timeline across all universes, wouldn't that be impossible?

Taken from a gamefaqs post that explains it well I think.

----

Bioshock Infinite is a story, ultimately, about saving the universe. This only becomes clear in the last two scenes, when Booker is drowned, and has his child post-credits. Let's rewind.

The universe is one of constants and variables. It is not chaos theory. There are not universes born of every choice. Every universe reaches certain key events. Constants, and variables. The major constant that is addressed in the game is that of the baptism. Seemingly, we have two outcomes: one of Comstock, and one of Booker. But there are four. Four possible outcomes that serve as anchor points for the multiverse, with minor variations of these branching to and fro.

The first: Comstock is born, rules Columbia. Elizabeth is abandoned, and goes on the destroy New York.

The second: Comstock is born, but Elizabeth is saved, and Columbia is destroyed.

The third: Booker refuses baptism, but sells Anna to settle a debt to Comstock, who has breached his world to engineer this manipulation, and launching the whole adventure.

The fourth: Booker does not sell Anna, because Comstock never breaches his world.

The first three universes have one thing in common: the Lutece Tear. A rip in spacetime made possible by funding from Comstock. The first three outcomes are reliant on an existence of Comstock in order for the tear to be made possible. The tear is the real problem. It is causing the universe to fall apart. It is evident by the tears that exist around Columbia. And the problem is exacerbated as Booker and Elizabeth jump from world to world, resulting in people being caught between dimensions. The very fabric of spacetime is threatened. The only resolution is to eliminate the possibility of the tear. Lutece will always exist. But the funding does not without Comstock.

When Booker drowns, he closes the loop, and eliminates the possibility of Comstock. He rewrites the universal constant. The question is no longer "does Booker accept baptism?" There is no question. Every universe that is influenced by Comstock is eliminated, because there is no Comstock. This leaves only the fourth possibility, where Booker always refuses baptism. He never sells Anna. A new constant, no longer a point of divisiveness in the universe. There is no more tearing, no people caught between dimensions. The universe is fixed. No plot holes, no paradoxes. Everything wrapped up nice and neat.

 

[Neuromancer]

I thought we were friends

<3

Now I just think you're being OTT.

It isn't so much that you don't like the ending. It seems like you didn't want to like it. You haven't really hit on any reason why you dislike it, and you don't have to, but sticking around to ridicule the ending for no specific reason, rather than discuss it, isn't constructive.

Im just getting it out of my system. There's not much constructive criticism to give anyway, the ending is what is is, it's not like anyone's going to rewrite it.

I'll think about it some more and type up a more detailed explanation of exactly why I thought it was so awful later.

 

[Neiteio]

I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I've read the Forbes articles, and the burning questions that are still chewing at my brain are what is the nature of Elizabeth's powers, what is the reason Comstock needed her, and what is the function and purpose of the siphon?

What was the point of the siphon? What was the deal with Elizabeth's ability to control tears independent of any machinery? Was there reason Comstock wanted his daughter from the parallel universe where he, as Booker, didn't come to Jesus and instead had a daughter?

 

[Trin]

Asked about it before but still trying to wrap my head around it... But what's theory on the baptism you receive upon arriving in Columbia, and being drowned by the Songbird? After those events you're back in Bookers office/house. Does that mean another "copy" of Booker died and you're continuing in an alternate universe where Booker survived the Baptism and wasn't drowned by the Songbird?

My theory is that it never actually happened and was just one of those cases the Luteces mentioned: "The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist." Booker had the "memory" of being drowned by Elizabeth, though he obviously didn't know it, so his mind created that scene.

 

[NawidA]

Regarding constants and variables, what decides which is which? What's the logic of them essentially. Also if Booker dies at the baptism isn't there Infinite other bookers who don't and still become Comstock?

 

[Keyser Soze]

However, other universes, based on other people lives, will still exist, branch off, and be created depending on what other people in he world do.

Quoting myself, as I think i just figured out DLC plans.

It is pretty easy to shove any kind of characters and setting (and any time-frame) in as DLC and have it make sense to he overall narrative.

I hope they go wild!

 

[Guevara]

My theory is that it never actually happened and was just one of those cases the Luteces mentioned: "The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist." Booker had the "memory" of being drowned by Elizabeth, though he obviously didn't know it, so his mind created that scene.

If I wanted to be catty I'd sum up our interpretation of the game as:

"The mind of the player will desperately struggle to create meaning where none exists"

 

[endresults]

My theory is that it never actually happened and was just one of those cases the Luteces mentioned: "The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist." Booker had the "memory" of being drowned by Elizabeth, though he obviously didn't know it, so his mind created that scene.

That can't be right since Columbia would no longer exist at that point. edit: In ANY universe.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I've read the Forbes articles, and the burning questions that are still chewing at my brain are what is the nature of Elizabeth's powers, what is the reason Comstock needed her, and what is the function and purpose of the siphon?

What was the point of the siphon? What was the deal with Elizabeth's ability to control tears independent of any machinery? Was there reason Comstock wanted his daughter from the parallel universe where he, as Booker, didn't come to Jesus and instead had a daughter?

The explanation from the Bioshock Wiki actually answers this well:

Elizabeth is gifted with the ability to manipulate Tears created from the Luteces' experiments on her and the space-time continuum. Rosalind Lutece speculates in a voxaphone recording that the loss of her pinkie resulted in her powers saying, "What makes the girl different? I suspect it has less to do with what she is and more to do with what she's not. A small part of her remains from where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas with its porridge." Tears are contingencies within the space-time continuum, visible to all, that show possible scenarios which, if tampered with, can enact themselves within Columbia's universe. Elizabeth is the only known person capable of controlling these Tears without the use of complex machinery, and can exploit them to summon objects such as weapons, ammunition or parts of the scenery; as well as living beings.

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Was the necklace you picked for Elizabeth important at all?

I remember I picked the bird for her, but at the point where we popped out of the blathysphere after getting to Rapture. I could swear Elizabeth was wearing the cage necklace.

But then when she drowned Booker, she had the bird again.

Was that just a bug?

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

I (obviously) didn't read the whole thread, but at the beginning of it people were saying it "didn't make sense" that Booker "suddenly became a white supremacist" after being baptised. I feel that people who think Booker "became" a white supremacist are thinking about it in the wrong way.

Booker was a white supremacist. Throughout the game, we learn of Booker's horrible actions during Wounded Knee. It's obvious that he was not a good person. This is why he went to get baptised -- to be absolved of his actions.

In one universe, he accepts the baptism and considers himself "absolved." Essentially, he feels that he's forgiven and doesn't have to think about his actions anymore. This leads him to a life of religious devotion and to the events that went on to create Columbia.

In another universe, Booker rejects the baptism because he feels that it won't change him or his actions; it would be a pointless gesture. Instead, he turns it down and is forced to live with the guilt of what he's done and reflect on his actions, leading to a downward spiral where he becomes in serious debt and sells his daughter.

I think the point Irrational was trying to make with this is that when Booker "absolved" himself of his actions whole cloth via becoming "born again," he never had to look back at his actions and learn from them.

Yet, when was faced with his actions in the past and forced to confront them, he came out of it a better person.

Just my two cents on that aspect of the plot.

 

[Neiteio]

The explanation from the Bioshock Wiki actually answers this well:



http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth

OH!!! I remember that recording, and now the "little part" left behind makes sense -- her pinky! So in a way she has her "foot in the door" for multiple realities, so to speak -- most of her over here, but a bit of her over there. Or perhaps the better analogy would be, it's like she has her finger in the crack of a nearly closed door, and this is how she "opens" the tears.

 

[Guevara]

^That's pretty interesting. Of course the pessimistic interpretation is that most Americans in the 1910s were white supremacists to some degree.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Regarding constants and variables, what decides which is which? What's the logic of them essentially. Also if Booker dies at the baptism isn't there Infinite other bookers who don't and still become Comstock?

The parallel universes only exist based on decision points. For example, if you were to match up Infinite's story to the real world, then you would cause separate universes' to form based on if you turned left or right as you went out the door of your house tomorrow morning. Both are valid universes', but you only experienced the one based on he decision you made.

Booker had to make a decision at the point of the Baptism. The game explores two possible universes that happened because of what he did at that point - they were likely infinite other branches which caused infinite other universes to form after that point.

Booker dying at that point stops further branches forming, ending his story at that point, which is also the story the game chose to tell.

 

[Neiteio]

I (obviously) didn't read the whole thread, but at the beginning of it people were saying it "didn't make sense" that Booker "suddenly became a white supremacist" after being baptised. I feel that people who think Booker "became" a white supremacist are thinking about it in the wrong way.

Booker was a white supremacist. Throughout the game, we learn of Booker's horrible actions during Little Big Horn. It's obvious that he was not a good person. This is why he went to get baptised -- to be absolved of his actions.

In one universe, he accepts the baptism and considers himself "absolved." Essentially, he feels that he's forgiven and doesn't have to think about his actions anymore. This leads him to a life of religious devotion and to the events that went on to create Columbia.

In another universe, Booker rejects the baptism because he feels that it won't change him or his actions; it would be a pointless gesture. Instead, he turns it down and is forced to live with the guilt of what he's done and reflect on his actions, leading to a downward spiral where he becomes in serious debt and sells his daughter.

I think the point Irrational was trying to make with this is that when Booker "absolved" himself of his actions whole cloth via becoming "born again," he never had to look back at his actions and learn from them.

Yet, when was faced with his actions in the past and forced to confront them, he came out of it a better person.

Just my two cents on that aspect of the plot.

Excellent post. Yeah, if Booker is racist all along, it explains why he took such delight murdering Native Americans at Wounded Knee. And it was only when he lived with the weight of his actions, not using religion as an easy out, did he grow to see racism for how ugly it is. Conversely, in the universe where Booker became Comstock, his religion served to justify his discrimination against others, and his cruelty took on a whole new level.

 

[Neiteio]

The parallel universes only exist based on decision points. For example, if you were to match up Infinite's story to the real world, then you would cause separate universes' to form based on if you turned left or right as you went out the door of your house tomorrow morning. Both are valid universes', but you only experienced the one based on he decision you made.

Booker had to make a decision at the point of the Baptism. The game explores two possible universes that happened because of what he did at that point - they were likely infinite other branches which caused infinite other universes to form after that point.

Booker dying at that point stops further branches forming, ending his story at that point, which is also the story the game chose to tell.

Viewing the story more... optimistically, perhaps Booker drowning at baptism only happened in the timelines where he would've accepted baptism... leaving the timelines where Booker rejected baptism, and had his child, but now there's no alternate reality baptised-Booker-turned-Comstock to reach across time with the Luteces and steal the child. Thus, assuming Booker could find some way to turn his life around, get out of debt, etc, he could see his daughter grow up and they'd live happily ever after...

But then, if Elizabeth was never stolen by Comstock, raised in Columbia, and rescued by Booker from Comstock, how would Elizabeth ever have stopped Booker from becoming Comstock in the first place?

Man, space-time stories are a pain in the ass.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

Excellent post. Yeah, if Booker is racist all along, it explains why he took such delight murdering Native Americans at Wounded Knee. And it was only when he lived with the weight of his actions, not using religion as an easy out, did he grow to see racism for how ugly it is. Conversely, in the universe where Booker became Comstock, his religion served to justify his discrimination against others, and his cruelty took on a whole new level.

Thank you for (subtly) correcting my Little Big Horn gaffe. Corrected in my original post ^^.

 

[WrenchNinja]

There's a voxaphone that says that he was part Native American, and was constantly ridiculed by his fellow soldiers. So he made a concerted effort to kill as many Natives as possible, which gave him the White Injun of Wounded Knee nickname. I don't think he was racist all along, just pushed to the brink which caused him to partake in something truly horrible. Doesn't excuse his actions, but it does explain them, which is what leads him to wanting to get baptized.

 

[-COOLIO-]

i still cant fathom any timeline where liz kills all bookers, it also goes against the post credits scene.

 

[Neiteio]

There's a voxaphone that says that he was part Native American, and was constantly ridiculed by his fellow soldiers. So he made a concerted effort to kill as many Natives as possible, which gave him the White Injun of Wounded Knee nickname. I don't think he was racist all along, just pushed to the brink which caused him to partake in something truly horrible. Doesn't excuse his action, but it does explain them, which is what leads him to wanting to get baptized.

Ah, I remember that now, too. Man, it's amazing how the little details are all adding up.

 

[border]

The universe is one of constants and variables. It is not chaos theory. There are not universes born of every choice. Every universe reaches certain key events. Constants, and variables. The major constant that is addressed in the game is that of the baptism. Seemingly, we have two outcomes: one of Comstock, and one of Booker. But there are four. Four possible outcomes that serve as anchor points for the multiverse, with minor variations of these branching to and fro.

I suppose that's a fine way of looking at it, but I don't think the game really did anything to make this clear.

The first: Comstock is born, rules Columbia. Elizabeth is abandoned, and goes on the destroy New York.

The second: Comstock is born, but Elizabeth is saved, and Columbia is destroyed.

The third: Booker refuses baptism, but sells Anna to settle a debt to Comstock, who has breached his world to engineer this manipulation, and launching the whole adventure.

The fourth: Booker does not sell Anna, because Comstock never breaches his world

If the hinging point for the multiverse is simply the baptism then why does being drowned eliminate the first 3 possibilities? Why doesn't "Booker Drowns" simply become a fifth possbility?

And why isn't it a possibility that Booker might accept the Baptism and NOT become Comstock?

The parallel universes only exist based on decision points. For example, if you were to match up Infinite's story to the real world, then you would cause separate universes' to form based on if you turned left or right as you went out the door of your house tomorrow morning. Both are valid universes', but you only experienced the one based on he decision you made.

Isn't it also a "decision point" that Booker allowed himself to be drowned?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

"Your family tree houses a teepee or two, don't it?"

He mentioned that he took pleasure in killing all those women and children, too.

Booker DeWitt isn't a nice guy

 

[Neiteio]

i still cant fathom any timeline where liz kills all bookers, it also goes against the post credits scene.

That's why I think she must've only killed all of the Bookers that accepted baptism, which is what happened in that scene. Only baptised Booker became Comstock. This was their plan to prevent Comstock from ever being born -- Comstock was "born" the moment Booker was "born again."

However, the paradox is Elizabeth only has the vision to do this because Comstock took her across timelines in the first place. Had Comstock never existed... Elizabeth would've never reached the point where she killed Booker to prevent Comstock...

And so maybe post-credits bit indicates it was, ultimately, all for nought. Comstock will still exist in some place, in some way. Lutece says in one recording that time is more like an ocean than a river, and ultimately you can't alter its tide.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

Ah, I remember that now, too. Man, it's amazing how the little details are all adding up.

I do too, but it soooorta irks me that plot point are hidden in collectables. I mean, I scored every fucking inch of Columbia on my first (hard) playthrough and I think I missed about 9 Voxophones. ARG!

 

[megalowho]

But then, if Elizabeth was never stolen by Comstock, raised in Columbia, and rescued by Booker from Comstock, how would Elizabeth ever have stopped Booker from becoming Comstock in the first place?

Man, space-time stories are a pain in the ass.

It's not necessary for the post credits scenario, since there is no Comstock in that universe (or any). The only way that gets to play out is if he turns away, which we assume he did.

 

[Guevara]

I do too, but it soooorta irks me that plot point are hidden in collectables. I mean, I scored every fucking inch of Columbia on my first (hard) playthrough and I think I missed about 9 Voxophones. ARG!

Yeah I honestly don't know where these are hiding. I missed at least 8 too.

I'm guess there are on tricky skylines or something